Moving up?

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

Really trying not to be chicken little… And you paint a very nice picture, CDA. But this could also easily be the reality of that bowl game. Independence Bowl below. Neutral site games (aside from championship games) are less than ideal imo.

So what? This looks no different then half the Conference games we currently deal with or like Indiana State on the road Last year or other road FCS games. Really isnt the legitimate excuse you think it is.

Exactly. Hell, many of the playoff games look like this. It’s embarrassing. The FCS is increasingly pewee football. The losses of Jacksonville state, coastal Carolina, Georgia southern, Sam Houston, James Madison, Appalachian state……These are huge losses to the subdivision that have not been replaced AT ALL. FCS is watered down now. There’s still some good ball being played out there, but there are few blue blood programs with great fan bases and facilities left.

 

[Ut-Grizfan]

So what? This looks no different then half the Conference games we currently deal with or like Indiana State on the road Last year or other road FCS games. Really isnt the legitimate excuse you think it is.

Exactly. Hell, many of the playoff games look like this. It’s embarrassing. The FCS is increasingly pewee football. The losses of Jacksonville state, coastal Carolina, Georgia southern, Sam Houston, James Madison, Appalachian state……These are huge losses to the subdivision that have not been replaced AT ALL. FCS is watered down now. There’s still some good ball being played out there, but there are few blue blood programs with great fan bases and facilities left.

The best chances we have:

-Pac2 doesn't take all the MWC schools (seems unlikely due to a probable full merger)

-WAC if and ONLY if they still have the clause to become an FBS Conference again meets up with the Big Sky, ASUN, MVFC, Southland and CUSA Conferences and takes the best of the rest in terms of facilities, $$ ex. to ensure everyone had a home. Unlikely due to issues with cooperation.

-Form the Snowbelt Conference and I'm unsure how hard this would actually be but doesn't seem impossible.

 

[OrgonGriz]

I used to be all for a move up. I still think it would be great to play Wyoming, Nevada, Utah State etc.
But UM leadership just doesn’t have the ambition for such a move.
The mentality seems to be we just couldn’t do it. It’s like they looked at idahos attempt and think that would be our fate.
Sadly I don’t think we will ever know. So long as UM fans pack the stadium to watch D2 games and we can scrape by a win they are complacent!
The Griz will get left behind in all of the shuffling that appears in o be coming. I think we will see other BSC members take the step and we just stay pat in “survival “ mode.

 

[RainierGriz]

Really trying not to be chicken little… And you paint a very nice picture, CDA. But this could also easily be the reality of that bowl game. Independence Bowl below. Neutral site games (aside from championship games) are less than ideal imo.

So what? This looks no different then half the Conference games we currently deal with or like Indiana State on the road Last year or other road FCS games. Really isnt the legitimate excuse you think it is.

Bad regular season environments exist in all levels of college football. Don’t act like it’s unique to fcs. For every Indiana state you show me, I’ll show you a Vanderbilt. Or a New Mexico, or a UNLV, or a UCLA, or a UMASS, or an Eastern Michigan, or Temple, or a Rutgers… Thats not the comparison I’m trying to make though. Are there exciting matchup like a potential Texas Tech at home? Absolutely. Is the big pay off a participation trophy bowl game at the end? Also yes. There are terribly attended playoff games in the FCS. But we’re all playing for something. And the playoff games are not neutral site.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Watching the JMU vs Marshal game right now. Combined record of the two former FCS powers is 10-2……seems to me success can be found at the next level. How about Jacksonville sate too?!?!?! Plenty of examples of former FCS powers having succes. App state is a bit down this year but they’ve had some success since moving up, as have old dominion, coastal Carolina, Georgia southern……pretty good for a bunch of former FCS teams.

*side note, what a cool conference! The sun belt and MWC are the coolest G5 conferences and it’s not close. So much fun week in and week out with meaningful regional matchups…..it’s what college football was meant to be. If the snowbelt conference ever actually happened it would be a sick conference too

Missing the point entirely. 99% of people here believe we have the resources to be successful at the next level. WE. DONT. LIKE. PARTICIPATION. TROPHY. BOWL. GAMES. Miss me with the 6-6 ‘RoofClaim.com Bowl’.

Newsflash: It ain't anywhere near 99%.

 

[RainierGriz]

Missing the point entirely. 99% of people here believe we have the resources to be successful at the next level. WE. DONT. LIKE. PARTICIPATION. TROPHY. BOWL. GAMES. Miss me with the 6-6 ‘RoofClaim.com Bowl’.

Newsflash: It ain't anywhere near 99%.

Sorry I must have miscalculated. Yeesh…

 

[GrizPony]

The players are just as jacked to play in the playoffs, potentially several times in one season, at different venues and against teams we rarely play. JD Quinn played in the Holiday Bowl at Oklahoma and said it was just ok. And we will never play in a bowl that big. The other thing I find funny is all the people arguing that we should move up seem to forget that the vaunted PAC12 just blew up in one year. You actually think we have the resources to survive something like that? The donors will have to contribute millions more every year to be competitive in FBS and our ticket prices are already higher than most FBS programs. If we passed a contract around for all the "move up" guys to sign on this board, I doubt we would get an actual financial commitment exceeding $300K a year and we will need millions.

 

[mthoopsfan]

The players are just as jacked to play in the playoffs, potentially several times in one season, at different venues and against teams we rarely play. JD Quinn played in the Holiday Bowl at Oklahoma and said it was just ok. And we will never play in a bowl that big. The other thing I find funny is all the people arguing that we should move up seem to forget that the vaunted PAC12 just blew up in one year. You actually think we have the resources to survive something like that? The donors will have to contribute millions more every year to be competitive in FBS and our ticket prices are already higher than most FBS programs. If we passed a contract around for all the "move up" guys to sign on this board, I doubt we would get an actual financial commitment exceeding $300K a year and we will need millions.

Perhaps extra teeth could also be collected for the tooth fairy. Every little bit would help.

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

The players are just as jacked to play in the playoffs, potentially several times in one season, at different venues and against teams we rarely play. JD Quinn played in the Holiday Bowl at Oklahoma and said it was just ok. And we will never play in a bowl that big. The other thing I find funny is all the people arguing that we should move up seem to forget that the vaunted PAC12 just blew up in one year. You actually think we have the resources to survive something like that? The donors will have to contribute millions more every year to be competitive in FBS and our ticket prices are already higher than most FBS programs. If we passed a contract around for all the "move up" guys to sign on this board, I doubt we would get an actual financial commitment exceeding $300K a year and we will need millions.

The state of Montana needs to help move the needle for both schools financially. It’s a money maker at the end of the day though so an investment by the state to better fund both UM and MSU athletics would have to be seen as an investment which would later yield dividends. UM and MSU also need to raise student athletic fees, which are currently some of the lowest I’ve seen anywhere. I don’t care to do it again, but recently we had a discussion on here where we looked at the student athletic fees and state funding around just the big sky and both Montana schools were at the bottom. THERE IS ROOM FOR GROWTH THERE! Also, there is the extra tv money that um would get if it moved up. The initial investment would be more expensive than the year to year investment. I thought I saw somewhere that we would initially need 17-20 million but after that it would be an annual 10-14 million we need. Big numbers? Yes. Impossible to reach? Hell no!

 

[Pounder]

I'd rather play in a Bowl game with schools that more often then not give a damn about Football/Atheltics overall then those who invest the bare minimum. Plus a schedule with teams like Wyoming, Boise State, Nevada Utah State ex. is alot more enticing/exciting then Portland State, Northern Colorado, random D2 ex.

Granted the best chance we have of moving up is if the PAC2 only take a portion of the MWC (the rest from the American), on the MWC board a popular theory is the following teams would be gone:
Boise State, CSU, Fresno, UNLV, SDSU + Hawaii Football Only (to offset Gonzaga).

That would leave the following for the MWC: Wyoming, Air Force, USU, SJSU, New Mexico and Nevada.

The obvious first 2 choices would be NMSU and UTEP as they fit the footprint, after that however taking capability and location into account could backfill with us and a few other Big Sky schools and have a decent looking Conference:

NEW MWC:

*Montana, *MSU, *Sac State, *Idaho, Wyoming, USU, Nevada, Air Force, SJSU, New Mexico, NMSU, UTEP

Granted this is a longshot scenario and probably won't happen as most news/rumors/data points to a full merger between the MWC and OSU+Wazzu.

Sweet Jesus. Can we just do the SnowBelt Conference already and be done with it?

Montana
MSU
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Idaho
Weber
UNI

Let the rest of them fight over the scraps.

Also known as the “Cattle Outnumber People So There’s No Media Money” conference.

Don’t you kind of want to be in a competitive position with the rest of FBS?

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

Sweet Jesus. Can we just do the SnowBelt Conference already and be done with it?

Montana
MSU
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Idaho
Weber
UNI

Let the rest of them fight over the scraps.

Also known as the “Cattle Outnumber People So There’s No Media Money” conference.

Don’t you kind of want to be in a competitive position with the rest of FBS?

Montana vs Idaho game had the highest viewership of all ESPN2 games last saturday

 

[AZGrizFan]

Newsflash: It ain't anywhere near 99%.

Sorry I must have miscalculated. Yeesh…

And I misread your post. I thought you were saying 99% did NOT want to move up. Either way, on this board it's probably 60/40...

 

[AZGrizFan]

Sweet Jesus. Can we just do the SnowBelt Conference already and be done with it?

Montana
MSU
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Idaho
Weber
UNI

Let the rest of them fight over the scraps.

Also known as the “Cattle Outnumber People So There’s No Media Money” conference.

Don’t you kind of want to be in a competitive position with the rest of FBS?

For some reason Idaho/UM was on ESPN saturday night, and Sac/MSU is on THIS saturday night, despite the "no people, no media money" conference mantra...

 

[mthoopsfan]

You people loving night games could get a bunch of 8:30pm games. Or maybe Wed. night or Thurs. night games.

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

You people loving night games could get a bunch of 8:30pm games. Or maybe Wed. night or Thurs. night games.

Not much different than this season. Again, look at the mountains west schedules. Not much different time wise than the big sky games. And again, the quality of opponent is dramatically better every week. At UM we are paying more per ticket than many/most MWC games, and we’re paying that to see Ferris and butler?! It’s honestly amazing that we are still selling so many tickets despite the poor quality of opponents this season. Next season will be much better though, with both western Carolina and Missouri state coming to town.

 

[MikeyGriz]

The players are just as jacked to play in the playoffs, potentially several times in one season, at different venues and against teams we rarely play. JD Quinn played in the Holiday Bowl at Oklahoma and said it was just ok. And we will never play in a bowl that big. The other thing I find funny is all the people arguing that we should move up seem to forget that the vaunted PAC12 just blew up in one year. You actually think we have the resources to survive something like that? The donors will have to contribute millions more every year to be competitive in FBS and our ticket prices are already higher than most FBS programs. If we passed a contract around for all the "move up" guys to sign on this board, I doubt we would get an actual financial commitment exceeding $300K a year and we will need millions.

The state of Montana needs to help move the needle for both schools financially. It’s a money maker at the end of the day though so an investment by the state to better fund both UM and MSU athletics would have to be seen as an investment which would later yield dividends. UM and MSU also need to raise student athletic fees, which are currently some of the lowest I’ve seen anywhere. I don’t care to do it again, but recently we had a discussion on here where we looked at the student athletic fees and state funding around just the big sky and both Montana schools were at the bottom. THERE IS ROOM FOR GROWTH THERE! Also, there is the extra tv money that um would get if it moved up. The initial investment would be more expensive than the year to year investment. I thought I saw somewhere that we would initially need 17-20 million but after that it would be an annual 10-14 million we need. Big numbers? Yes. Impossible to reach? Hell no!

And as stated on here before, both of those proposals would require votes. And those votes would both be NO!

 

[mthoopsfan]

The players are just as jacked to play in the playoffs, potentially several times in one season, at different venues and against teams we rarely play. JD Quinn played in the Holiday Bowl at Oklahoma and said it was just ok. And we will never play in a bowl that big. The other thing I find funny is all the people arguing that we should move up seem to forget that the vaunted PAC12 just blew up in one year. You actually think we have the resources to survive something like that? The donors will have to contribute millions more every year to be competitive in FBS and our ticket prices are already higher than most FBS programs. If we passed a contract around for all the "move up" guys to sign on this board, I doubt we would get an actual financial commitment exceeding $300K a year and we will need millions.

The state of Montana needs to help move the needle for both schools financially. It’s a money maker at the end of the day though so an investment by the state to better fund both UM and MSU athletics would have to be seen as an investment which would later yield dividends. UM and MSU also need to raise student athletic fees, which are currently some of the lowest I’ve seen anywhere. I don’t care to do it again, but recently we had a discussion on here where we looked at the student athletic fees and state funding around just the big sky and both Montana schools were at the bottom. THERE IS ROOM FOR GROWTH THERE! Also, there is the extra tv money that um would get if it moved up. The initial investment would be more expensive than the year to year investment. I thought I saw somewhere that we would initially need 17-20 million but after that it would be an annual 10-14 million we need. Big numbers? Yes. Impossible to reach? Hell no!

So, after going to FBS, after initial costs, UM would only need $10-14 million per year? That's all. Is our current budget around $23 million? So, only an increase of 40-60%?

 

[GrizGuy]

Absolutely! To think that playing an away game against a no name school for a Potato trophy is “better” always amazes me. The people pushing it would never be the ones paying the millions more necessary every year to “move up”.

Well you have obviously never been a part of a "better" Potato trophy game. I have. The players absolutely think it is a big deal. The bowls treat them well, they take it all in. They get to see places, or play teams they don't usually get to. It's actually a big deal FOR THE PLAYERS. So who gives 1 poop what fans on a board think. If they were to move up, and they were 6-5 and made a bowl, I would STILL follow them...and maybe I'd take a trip the to Pittsburgh Smog Bowl just to watch the game.

This is where I have landed, too. I was historically against any move “up.” But it’s become clear that a playoff is going to happen (a real one not a lame 8 team type). And the players have good experiences in those games, and that’s great. It’s not about me or my wants. Plus there’s money in it for the schools. Which matters.

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

The state of Montana needs to help move the needle for both schools financially. It’s a money maker at the end of the day though so an investment by the state to better fund both UM and MSU athletics would have to be seen as an investment which would later yield dividends. UM and MSU also need to raise student athletic fees, which are currently some of the lowest I’ve seen anywhere. I don’t care to do it again, but recently we had a discussion on here where we looked at the student athletic fees and state funding around just the big sky and both Montana schools were at the bottom. THERE IS ROOM FOR GROWTH THERE! Also, there is the extra tv money that um would get if it moved up. The initial investment would be more expensive than the year to year investment. I thought I saw somewhere that we would initially need 17-20 million but after that it would be an annual 10-14 million we need. Big numbers? Yes. Impossible to reach? Hell no!

So, after going to FBS, after initial costs, UM would only need $10-14 million per year? That's all. Is our current budget around $23 million? So, only an increase of 40-60%?

Again though, once the school has made the jump it sounds like those costs would drop by as much as 1/3 due to the money that we could make off of tv contracts and such. Regardless, the fact remains that there’s lobbying that the schools should be doing at the state level for more competitive funding for the ADs to get the Montana schools on par with other universities regionally and nationally. Additionally, the $77/semester students currently pay in athletic fees should be at the very least brought to around $200/semester, which is STILL less than what most other universities that are serious about athletics are charging. Those extra funds generated could go into a move up pool of money to pay for the new $5 million fee, then go towards whatever else the AD deems necessary. This is the bare minimum that should happen. Our student athletic fees right now are laughably low

 

[mthoopsfan]

Many of the UM students would say: Make the ones attending games pay extra. And make them pay for their tickets. Some at MSU including the president, think the BOR is already allocating too much to UM and not enough to MSU. My understanding is that the schools have large input into how their funds are allocated to sports.