Mover-Ups Doing Well

[bgbigdog]

Oh man, some day I wish we could be sun belt champions and maybe, just maybe we could play and beat the 7th place finisher of the Big 12 in the GlaxoSmithKline Bowl played ever December 19th at 11pm MST!

Brint - having worked in the industry in a previous life, I thought I'd bounce it off my buddies @ GSK. Surprisingly, they are considering a "Breatherite" bowl, and would think Montana would be a target given continuing air quality issues and lagging product sales. They're well into the product life cycle with that one, much like the move up thread discussions here. In both cases and as you so ably note, it's all about the money...

 

[BWahlberg]

Oh man, some day I wish we could be sun belt champions and maybe, just maybe we could play and beat the 7th place finisher of the Big 12 in the GlaxoSmithKline Bowl played ever December 19th at 11pm MST!

Brint - having worked in the industry in a previous life, I thought I'd bounce it off my buddies @ GSK. Surprisingly, they are considering a "Breatherite" bowl, and would think Montana would be a target given continuing air quality issues and lagging product sales. They're well into the product life cycle with that one, much like the move up thread discussions here. In both cases and as you so ably note, it's all about the money...

Sweet, the breathrite bowl does have a nice ring to it!

 

[SoldierGriz]

I know this has been discussed time-and-again on here. I certainly don't fully understand the intricacies of financing a move, but I do believe visioning and designing a strategy to move is prudent. Any organization that insists on the status quo will slide backward. In other words, if you are not moving forward...you are moving backward because other organizations will not sit idle.

Sun Tzu applicability for this topic:
Whoever is first in the field and awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight; whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle will arrive exhausted. We could find ourselves on the wrong end of college football transitions.

We cannot enter into alliances until we are acquainted with the designs of our neighbors. Given the current state of the program (mostly positive going forward with facility upgrades etc.) can we move and compete?

 

[griz4life]

There isn't an FBS conference in the West that would take an FCS school. Not one. Like it or not, the Griz would water down their brand.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

Its easy they griz move to fbs and have 3 staright sub 500 seasons. The stadium will be at 8k fans. Students wont come...uts already hard enough to get them. The back half of the season is hunting season and many would choose to do that, front half has nice weather...many wil go out spending time with family. The griz dont have anything to support a 6-6 or worse team every year and hoping to play in a shitty bowl game at 11 am on a tuesday. It just wont happen get over your dream

 

[Silvertip]

Oh man, some day I wish we could be sun belt champions and maybe, just maybe we could play and beat the 7th place finisher of the Big 12 in the GlaxoSmithKline Bowl played ever December 19th at 11pm MST!

You do realize we are in the Big Sky Confrence, no? Sun Belt> Big Shitty.

If you compare the success of all Big Sky football programs to all Sum Belt programs at their level you're actually incorrect. The Big Sky regularly has multiple ranked teams, multiple national award winners, and two different national champions within the last 15 years. The Sun Belt can virtually claim none of that success at their level.

Everybody take a deep breath. The likelihood of the Griz going FBS in your lifetime died in the period running thru the earliest days of this century when George Dennison rebuffed the efforts of first the Big West morphing into the WAC and finally the MWC treating any and all inquiries with enough disdain to discourage anyone from seriously considering UM from ever being anything more than the glue holding the Big Sky together.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Hammer and Brint, what's the use even arguing with the move-up crowd anymore? They will never care how much it costs, how many more women's sports would have to still be added, or how inferior our facilities and financial booster base are to the Boise's and Nevada's of the world. Ironically, I see some of the same people begging for a move up are the same people calling the Griz a medicore FCS program. An also-ran in the Big Sky, a terrible football team. But somehow, those people think the Griz could do better in the friggin' Mountain West Conference???? It's a hilarious contradiction.

Add in its the same people that are worked up about LearField and in-game advertisements. At the FBS level Montana would have to probably go to a whole new level of sports marketing to try to pay the bills.

On your point of added women's sports if I remember correctly due to Title 9 the amount of women's sports would have to be equal to the rough campus population. About a 60/40 ratio.

I understand the argument of, "We will play better teams."

What I never hear though is how we will afford it.

I couldn't care less about learfield, in-game advertisements, etc., etc. I challenge you to find one post from me on that subject. What's amazing to me, and since I'm not "in the know" with respect to college sports finances I'll have to take it at face value, is that despite our perception that we'd never be able to afford it, all those schools that do move up NEVER move back down. Never. Not once. How is that possible? How is it that EVERY school that has moved up has somehow magically figured out how to make it work financially, but Montana can't? I get that WE may not know how the institution could afford it, but for God's sake, SOMEBODY in the know should be able to figure it out. It ain't rocket science.

Then we wouldn't have to worry ourselves about silly threads proposing home and homes with schools like Utah State, Colorado State or Boise State that NEVER are going to happen because FBS teams won't come to FCS teams' stadiums.

And if I see another post like this:

I agree with the logic of staying put. Really, how many teams have enjoyed the same success upon a move up? I can think of one, and that is Boise State. Most of the others have experienced many more losses than they had in FCS, and are no longer able to compete for a National Title. We would be a small fish and a really big pond. I like watching a team that wins. I would support the Griz either way, but the games are played to WIN. Personally, I could give a care less how many of the opposing team's fans show up for a game. If 7,000 attend and we win, that is much better than 60,000 and getting stomped. Losing stinks, and we don't have the facilities and program foundation right now to be like Boise and Nevada. I wish we did, but that is just not the reality of our situation.

or this:

Its easy they griz move to fbs and have 3 staright sub 500 seasons. The stadium will be at 8k fans. Students wont come...uts already hard enough to get them. The back half of the season is hunting season and many would choose to do that, front half has nice weather...many wil go out spending time with family. The griz dont have anything to support a 6-6 or worse team every year and hoping to play in a shitty bowl game at 11 am on a tuesday. It just wont happen get over your dream

I think I'm going to puke. If there TRULY are that many fair-weather fans, then this program has a LOT more to worry about than whether it wants to move up or not.

 

[George Ferguson]

AZ, simple question, not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you say. I'm just curious. Would you rather have this Griz team, right now, in the Big Sky Conference or the Sun Belt Conference?

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Looks like there are signs the FBS pig is becoming a hog and headed for the slaughterhouse.

http://www.businessinsider.com/more-espn-layoffs-wednesday-2015-10

 

[AZGrizFan]

AZ, simple question, not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you say. I'm just curious. Would you rather have this Griz team, right now, in the Big Sky Conference or the Sun Belt Conference?

Sun Belt. No question. With an eye to the future of being in the MWC. Yes, it's far-flung and sure, our conference games wouldn't be the greatest (but seriously: wouldn't you rather see App State, GSU, Troy, Idaho instead of UND, NAU, ISU, PSU, etc., etc.) , but it would IMMEDIATELY allow OOC H/H arrangements with any of a NUMBER of teams that are far more attractive than the crap coming through Missoula currently:

Utah
Utah State
Boise State
Colorado State
Wyoming
Air Force
Nevada
UNLV
BYU
Wazzu
New Mexico
San Diego State
San Jose State
Fresno State

Hell, think REALLY big and look at some of the teams Wyoming has brought into Laramie in recent years: Virginia, Colorado, Texas, Nebraska...

 

[Spanky]

AZ....your logic is correct, but the fine people like Hav will never see it.

 

[mtgrizfankb]

And we would lose to all those teams save wyo and unlv sometimes. Maybe in 10 years we could compete with some.of those teams. But the football program would be dead by then. Attendance would be in the 5-8k. People in montana dont care as much about who we play they care about winning. You think troy, asu, gsu or idaho will fill the stadium more than ewu, msu, nau...your nuts. You would get good crowds for a year maybe two. But um crowds like to win...not play better teams.

 

[Spanky]

If our team is good, we will fill the stadium playing Utah, Utah State, Wyoming,Colorado State,etc. Now that our program is lacking, not so much. Frankly, if we don't turn things around, we may be looking at Division2.

 

[AZGrizFan]

And we would lose to all those teams save wyo and unlv sometimes. Maybe in 10 years we could compete with some.of those teams. But the football program would be dead by then. Attendance would be in the 5-8k. People in montana dont care as much about who we play they care about winning. You think troy, asu, gsu or idaho will fill the stadium more than ewu, msu, nau...your nuts. You would get good crowds for a year maybe two. But um crowds like to win...not play better teams.

You seriously believe that? Even with an additional 22 scholarships? You sure about that? And you've polled every UM fan to know that they prefer winning (hows that working lately) to playing better teams?

But glad to see you've firmly planted yourself in the "Oh no, we'd suck" camp if we ever moved up despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary:

App State:
2014: 7-5 (including winning their last 5)
2015: 6-1*

Georgia Southern:
2014: 9-3 (Sun Belt Champions)
2015: 6-1*

ODU:
2014: 6-6
2015: 2-4*

Western Kentucky:
2009: 0-12
2010: 2-10
2011: 7-5
2012: 7-6
2013: 8-4
2014: 8-5

Marshall:
1997: 10-3
1998: 12-1
1999: 13-0
2000: 8-5
2001: 11-2
2002: 11-2
2003: 8-4
2004: 6-6
2005: 4-7
2006: 5-7
2007: 3-9
2008: 4-8
2009: 7-6
2010: 5-7
2011: 7-6
2012: 5-7
2013: 10-3
2014: 13-1
2015: 6-1*

Boise State:
1996: 2-10
1997: 5-6
1998: 6-5
1999: 10-3
2000: 10-2
2001: 8-4
2002: 12-1
2003: 13-1
2004: 11-1
2005: 9-4
2006: 13-0
2007: 10-3
2008: 12-1
2009: 14-0
2010: 12-1
2011: 12-1
2012: 11-2
2013: 8-5
2014: 12-2

Idaho:

1997: 5-6
1998: 9-3
1999: 7-4
2000: 5-6
2001: 1-10
2002-Present: suckage (with exception of 2009 @ 8-5)

With the exception of Idaho, the general trend is: take a couple years to adjust to the new level of competiton, and then perform above average to exceptional on a fairly regular basis. Hell even WKU (which was the butt of many jokes after moving up and proceeding to go 0-12 in its first year) has put together 4 straight winning seasons and two straight 8-win seasons.

For those of you "fans" who truly believe we've got a better chance of ending up like Idaho than like Marshall, ASU, GSU, Boise, etc.....then just keep thinking small. God forbid the program actually believe in itself.

 

[BWahlberg]

AZ - conveniently leaving out other move ups I see!

Texas State:

2012: 4-8
2013: 6-6
2014: 7-5
2015: 1-4

Troy (from 2002 forward when they moved up:

4-8
6-6
7-5
4-7
8-5
8-5
8-4
9-5
3-9
5-7
6-9
3-9
1-5 (YTD)

Old Dominion

6-6
3-3 (YTD)

FAU (from 2004 on)

9-3
2-9
5-7
8-5
7-6
5-7
4-8
1-11
3-8
6-6
3-9
1-5 (YTD)

FIU (from 2005 forward)

5-6
0-12
1-11
5-6
0-12
1-11
5-7
3-9
7-6
8-5
3-9
1-11
4-8
3-4 (YTD)

UTSA (2012 and forward)

8-4
7-5
4-8
1-6 (YTD)

 

[Spanky]

We could become the Idaho like team of the Big Sky or maybe more like Northern Colorado if we don't begin recruiting OL, running backs and along the way, teach someone how to return kicks and punts. Seriously, I am concerned that our program is on the edge of possible disaster if some serious planning doesn't begin now by our AD and coaching staff.

 

[tnt]

Somehow I shouldn't be surprised but I am. A Move Up thread NOW????? This year? Really?

Its cool when one can start tailgating early but even for this bunch its a stretch.....................

 

[BWahlberg]

We could become the Idaho like team of the Big Sky or maybe more like Northern Colorado if we don't begin recruiting OL, running backs and along the way, teach someone how to return kicks and punts. Seriously, I am concerned that our program is on the edge of possible disaster if some serious planning doesn't begin now by our AD and coaching staff.

Spanky I know you're always worried about this but look at what Montana has:

- One of the largest stadiums in the FCS with regular peak attendance
- A new academic center
- Breaking ground on a massive new weight and locker room
- Stronger (but could be better) salaries for coaches
- Solid scholarship support base for the current level of provided scholarships
- Football program way in the black financially
- A fanbase that will demand success and won't be happy with mediocre seasons

It all adds up to being able to right the ship pretty quickly if things don't go well. We're not like the bottom half of the FCS.

 

[Spanky]

Brint, I agree with you on every point. My primary concern is the lack of talent at the level of the Glenn/Hauck years with certain positions. Also, a shortfall of coaching with special teams, offensive line and running back. The Glenn/Hauck teams were finely tuned in all areas....especially Hauck. Not the case, today.

 

[George Ferguson]

AZ, I think you are a great poster, I just don't agree on a lot of the move-up stuff. In particular, I don't agree with the OOC scheduling. Even if Montana was FBS, in the Sun Belt presumably, no Boise State doesn't have to schedule a home and home with the Griz. Neither does Nevada, Neither does Colorado State, let alone ANY team from a Big 5 Conference. I think for MANY years, you would see a schedule very comparable to Boise State's early years in FBS. Go back and look at some of those crap schedules they had to endure to get to where they are today. And Big 5? No way. They don't need to play Montana on the road for one, and two, any power conference team worth its salt travels with 10,000 fans easy. Where are you going to put them in Wash-Griz?

FTR, I'm actually not opposed to moving up to FBS. But I saw earlier someone mention something like "if they can make it work, then we surely can." But the bottom line is, I, and I think the powers that be, don't want to just "make it work" in the FBS. I'm sorry, but that's what Idaho does. "They just make it work". And I don't give a rats ass if their fan base, which is smaller than Montana's, looks down their noses now at the FCS and the Big Sky. That god awful program thinking negatively about Montana doesn't hurt my feelings one bit, and I will bet a million to one, there are more Griz fans that are enjoying football season a lot more than Vandal fans are every year.

When, the Griz have the Champions Center done, a new medical/training facility open, an indoor practice facility built, and the GSA has recruited about 10,000 more members to help fund the addition in scholarships, and Cost of Attendance for every sport on campus, then I'll think a lot more realistically about moving up, and won't even be mad if it's the Sun Belt.