Move Up!?! IMO No...

[ordigger]

So if the lower tier FBS schools create their own National Championship game, excluding the upper tier qualifier, that would take away about 80% of the dont move up crowd. Truth is we arent exactly able to compete for other national championships anyway. Why is this just about football? There are dozens over other student atheletes. Plus the ability to be with our peers is still not talked about. The academic financial advantage could easily far out distance football revenue.

The anti move up crowd are losing their steam, because if you are anti move up that means you are accepting the fact that potentially we could move down, whether through choice or not. Almost every major FCS school is looking at moving up.......why is that?

 

[first11]

good arguments abound pro and con, but how much is predicated on what we may choose to do re the move up stuff...

geography and money work against us...I do not have a good feeling about the current state of affairs especially the dollars, huge dollar committment and the capacity of fans/state support to make it do able.

of course the creepy bunch that runs the NCAA pulls the strings and all are puppets sans the Alabamas of the football world.

I still envision a blend of the upper teams in FCS blending with the middling FBS schools playing in conf alignments as opposed to getting in the lions den with the twenty or so huge moneyed programs.

Only so much money to go around and we certainly are not awash in it. I as a fan would love the better competition and some new teams coming to Missoula but the times that are changing do not seem to favor us.

the wild card is the present situation in main hall, our direction in football and donor support....I do not see our current president as an asset in any of the above....

 

[kemajic]

Why does everyone assume that winning seasons and being the next Boise State are automatically the next thing that will happen if the Griz move up?
:ugeek:

Exactly who has said this? Everyone? Anyone?

 

[kemajic]

FWIW, Boise hardly dominated the BSC prior to their move in fact most thought Idaho was far better positioned to make the move up.

And I love(d) where we are (were) also. But where we are is no longer what it was. The best programs in the FCS are gone or soon going. I fear very soon that the FCS playoff bracket will look like this:

#8 Idaho State at #1 Montana
#7 UNC at #2 Eastern
#6 Mesa State at #3 MSU
#5 NAU at #4 Weber.

No thanks.

With 45 schollies.... But Cruzado will have MSU in the real game. Substitute Panhandle St. at #3.

 

[first11]

FWIW, Boise hardly dominated the BSC prior to their move in fact most thought Idaho was far better positioned to make the move up.

And I love(d) where we are (were) also. But where we are is no longer what it was. The best programs in the FCS are gone or soon going. I fear very soon that the FCS playoff bracket will look like this:

#8 Idaho State at #1 Montana
#7 UNC at #2 Eastern
#6 Mesa State at #3 MSU
#5 NAU at #4 Weber.

No thanks.

With 45 schollies.... But Cruzado will have MSU in the real game. Substitute Panhandle St. at #3.

could very well happen as noted with MSU....their leadership has their shit together...we look confused, dazed....I have good reason to doubt anything but

 

[WILDCATFAN]

Of course it's not a guarentee that we'll end up being awful, but I believe that the seasons of winning and consistentely being at the top of our conference would come to an end (minus last year, obviously). This isn't a horrible thing, because true fans will continue watching either way, but I completely understand people's point of view that we could end up going the way of Idaho.

And yet Idaho fans were completely against moving down to division II...er, FCS. And that is the worst possible example for moving up...and they STILL prefer fbs.

I'm part of the crowd that thinks moving up wouldn't be a bad thing. I just think that if we choose to go that route, we're not going to be going to the National Championship anytime soon... or ever.

Of course not. I would hope anyone advocating a move up is not under the illusion that a nc is possible at the next level.

Then why is the move up so desirable? If the best you can get is a Idaho Potato bowl? I can understand from a UM fan point of view that the usual beatdowns of the likes of the Weber's, UNC's and ISU's of the world would get boring, but playing teams in the Sun Belt? The only conference at this point that would even welcome you, would a game in WGS vs ULL really be bigger than a home game vs EWU?

If the Mountain West came to UM and said are you interested? then hell yeah go for it, but the Sun Belt? the least glamourous conference in the FBS? James Madison, App State, Geo Southern all traditional football powers in the FCS, national champions in the past, now Sun Belt teams maybe playing in the New Mexico Bowl.

Look at Weber right now, they are playing in the CIT championship game tomorrow night, is it as glamourous as the Big Dance? no. But heck Weber could be a Champion tomorrow night.

These schools (ASU,JMU,GSU) have put thier football teams into a situation that the Big Sky basketball teams are in, what are the chances a Big Sky school could win the National Championship in the Dance? Pretty much non-existing, now what are App State's chances of winning another Football championship? Pretty much non-existing.

 

[GoldStandardGriz]

The main parallels with us moving up in comparison with Boise St. & Idaho are location & city size. Boise is larger & easy to get to, with direct flights from most major west coast cities, which helps in recruiting big city kids. Moscow is a "town" that isn't so easy to get to, making it harder for them to compete with top-notch recruits. Location & city size does make a difference when it comes to signing higher end recruits from the major hubs in the west. How much of a difference? Not sure, but it provides a certain comfort level for the kids, not to mention it makes it easier for family to come & support them.

 

[grizman71]

Ah, another thread about not moving up. The 2013 season can't start soon enough! Between now and the first game I'm betting on at least 19,491 more comments on either moving up or staying put.

 

[EverettGriz]

And yet Idaho fans were completely against moving down to division II...er, FCS. And that is the worst possible example for moving up...and they STILL prefer fbs.

I'm part of the crowd that thinks moving up wouldn't be a bad thing. I just think that if we choose to go that route, we're not going to be going to the National Championship anytime soon... or ever.

Of course not. I would hope anyone advocating a move up is not under the illusion that a nc is possible at the next level.

Then why is the move up so desirable? If the best you can get is a Idaho Potato bowl? I can understand from a UM fan point of view that the usual beatdowns of the likes of the Weber's, UNC's and ISU's of the world would get boring, but playing teams in the Sun Belt? The only conference at this point that would even welcome you, would a game in WGS vs ULL really be bigger than a home game vs EWU?

If the Mountain West came to UM and said are you interested? then hell yeah go for it, but the Sun Belt? the least glamourous conference in the FBS? James Madison, App State, Geo Southern all traditional football powers in the FCS, national champions in the past, now Sun Belt teams maybe playing in the New Mexico Bowl.

Look at Weber right now, they are playing in the CIT championship game tomorrow night, is it as glamourous as the Big Dance? no. But heck Weber could be a Champion tomorrow night.

These schools (ASU,JMU,GSU) have put thier football teams into a situation that the Big Sky basketball teams are in, what are the chances a Big Sky school could win the National Championship in the Dance? Pretty much non-existing, now what are App State's chances of winning another Football championship? Pretty much non-existing.

I don't understand your argument. Teams in the BSC have absolutely no shot at winning a NC in BB either. So would you advocate a move down to DII so that could happen?

Then you say that Weber can win a title in the CIT, which is laudable, but which also is a tournament few know even exists, and fewer still care about.

So, is that any better than winning a Bowl game? Your logic seems flawed.

Give me a chance to play the best. I may not win all the time, but at least when I do it'll mean something.

 

[WILDCATFAN]

I'm part of the crowd that thinks moving up wouldn't be a bad thing. I just think that if we choose to go that route, we're not going to be going to the National Championship anytime soon... or ever.

Of course not. I would hope anyone advocating a move up is not under the illusion that a nc is possible at the next level.

Then why is the move up so desirable? If the best you can get is a Idaho Potato bowl? I can understand from a UM fan point of view that the usual beatdowns of the likes of the Weber's, UNC's and ISU's of the world would get boring, but playing teams in the Sun Belt? The only conference at this point that would even welcome you, would a game in WGS vs ULL really be bigger than a home game vs EWU?

If the Mountain West came to UM and said are you interested? then hell yeah go for it, but the Sun Belt? the least glamourous conference in the FBS? James Madison, App State, Geo Southern all traditional football powers in the FCS, national champions in the past, now Sun Belt teams maybe playing in the New Mexico Bowl.

Look at Weber right now, they are playing in the CIT championship game tomorrow night, is it as glamourous as the Big Dance? no. But heck Weber could be a Champion tomorrow night.

These schools (ASU,JMU,GSU) have put thier football teams into a situation that the Big Sky basketball teams are in, what are the chances a Big Sky school could win the National Championship in the Dance? Pretty much non-existing, now what are App State's chances of winning another Football championship? Pretty much non-existing.

I don't understand your argument. Teams in the BSC have absolutely no shot at winning a NC in BB either. So would you advocate a move down to DII so that could happen?

Then you say that Weber can win a title in the CIT, which is laudable, but which also is a tournament few know even exists, and fewer still care about.

So, is that any better than winning a Bowl game? Your logic seems flawed.

Give me a chance to play the best. I may not win all the time, but at least when I do it'll mean something.

My point was, In the FCS (CIT) You can still even have a shot at making and winning the National Championship, but a move up from that to the FBS (Big Dance) takes just about any chance of even being allowed to play for the national title away. I guess what I am saying, how is playing someone like North Texas in the New Mexico Bowl that much more exciting than a National Championship game?

Montana and other Sky schools have practically 0 chance at a national championship in college hoops, so why lose both shots at a National title by moving up?

And how is winning the National FCS Championship not meaning anything? Do you really think NDSU's players think it means nothing to them? As far as I'm concerned, North Dakota State is the best, because they won the FCS title, and were not given the title based on numbers a computer came up with.

 

[EverettGriz]

how is playing someone like North Texas in the New Mexico Bowl that much more exciting than a National Championship game

It may not be. But then, playing South Eastern New Mexico in an FCS title game won't be that exciting either.

Montana and other Sky schools have practically 0 chance at a national championship in college hoops, so why lose both shots at a National title by moving up?

If it's all about winning a national championship, why not move all programs down to DII? It has to be -- and IS -- more than that. I can't imagine ANY Weber fan supporting moving the basketball program down a level, and yet you have no shot ever to win a national championship. Why is not it not okay for basektball, but okay for football?

And how is winning the National FCS Championship not meaning anything?

It does. To us. But not to anyone else.

As far as I'm concerned, North Dakota State is the best, because they won the FCS title

I agree completely. The problem with the argument is that within a few years, NDSU will be an FBS team. THAT is the problem: the FCS was a fine level, and one where Montana belonged 10 years ago. But it's no where near the same as it was 10 years ago, and Montana is now one of the ONLY big fishes in the quickly draining pond. It's my opinion you should play with your peers. And like it or not, Montana doesn't have many of those at their current level (and fewer and fewer every single day).

 

[CV Griz Fan]

how is playing someone like North Texas in the New Mexico Bowl that much more exciting than a National Championship game

It may not be. But then, playing South Eastern New Mexico in an FCS title game won't be that exciting either.

Montana and other Sky schools have practically 0 chance at a national championship in college hoops, so why lose both shots at a National title by moving up?

If it's all about winning a national championship, why not move all programs down to DII? It has to be -- and IS -- more than that. I can't imagine ANY Weber fan supporting moving the basketball program down a level, and yet you have no shot ever to win a national championship. Why is not it not okay for basektball, but okay for football?

And how is winning the National FCS Championship not meaning anything?

It does. To us. But not to anyone else.

As far as I'm concerned, North Dakota State is the best, because they won the FCS title

I agree completely. The problem with the argument is that within a few years, NDSU will be an FBS team. THAT is the problem: the FCS was a fine level, and one where Montana belonged 10 years ago. But it's no where near the same as it was 10 years ago, and Montana is now one of the ONLY big fishes in the quickly draining pond. It's my opinion you should play with your peers. And like it or not, Montana doesn't have many of those at their current level (and fewer and fewer every single day).

I agree with Everett on this one. What is the point of being proud of winning a National Championship of a totally "watered down" FCS? Have some pride please!

 

[WILDCATFAN]

Ok, if you say so.

 

[PlayerRep]

how is playing someone like North Texas in the New Mexico Bowl that much more exciting than a National Championship game

It may not be. But then, playing South Eastern New Mexico in an FCS title game won't be that exciting either.

Montana and other Sky schools have practically 0 chance at a national championship in college hoops, so why lose both shots at a National title by moving up?

If it's all about winning a national championship, why not move all programs down to DII? It has to be -- and IS -- more than that. I can't imagine ANY Weber fan supporting moving the basketball program down a level, and yet you have no shot ever to win a national championship. Why is not it not okay for basektball, but okay for football?

And how is winning the National FCS Championship not meaning anything?

It does. To us. But not to anyone else.

As far as I'm concerned, North Dakota State is the best, because they won the FCS title

I agree completely. The problem with the argument is that within a few years, NDSU will be an FBS team. THAT is the problem: the FCS was a fine level, and one where Montana belonged 10 years ago. But it's no where near the same as it was 10 years ago, and Montana is now one of the ONLY big fishes in the quickly draining pond. It's my opinion you should play with your peers. And like it or not, Montana doesn't have many of those at their current level (and fewer and fewer every single day).

I agree with Everett on this one. What is the point of being proud of winning a National Championship of a totally "watered down" FCS? Have some pride please!

Winning a championship, at any level, is an accomplishment, awesome and fun. Stop being an idiot. You obviously never played any sport. Stop with your dumb comments.

 

[PlayerRep]

how is playing someone like North Texas in the New Mexico Bowl that much more exciting than a National Championship game

It may not be. But then, playing South Eastern New Mexico in an FCS title game won't be that exciting either.

Montana and other Sky schools have practically 0 chance at a national championship in college hoops, so why lose both shots at a National title by moving up?

If it's all about winning a national championship, why not move all programs down to DII? It has to be -- and IS -- more than that. I can't imagine ANY Weber fan supporting moving the basketball program down a level, and yet you have no shot ever to win a national championship. Why is not it not okay for basektball, but okay for football?

And how is winning the National FCS Championship not meaning anything?

It does. To us. But not to anyone else.

As far as I'm concerned, North Dakota State is the best, because they won the FCS title

I agree completely. The problem with the argument is that within a few years, NDSU will be an FBS team. THAT is the problem: the FCS was a fine level, and one where Montana belonged 10 years ago. But it's no where near the same as it was 10 years ago, and Montana is now one of the ONLY big fishes in the quickly draining pond. It's my opinion you should play with your peers. And like it or not, Montana doesn't have many of those at their current level (and fewer and fewer every single day).

Everett, please stop with your dumbass comments. Let me know if you want me to explain why your comments are completely out to lunch.

 

[EverettGriz]

Well, then let's just play the 8th grade JVers at Hellgate! That City Championship will be AWESOME!!! :roll:


We all understand it's about winning championships. So I guess we'll truly enjoy a conference championship (against legitimate DI competition), and a win against another conference champion in a Bowl game. To me, that's just as good (better??) as some "national" championship played in Taco Time soccer stadium, that no one outside of a few FCS fans even know exists. Let's be honest: it is a complete misnomer to call what happens in Frisco a "national" anything. Especially with the watered down, paper thin competition that FCS will soon be able to roll out there.



And yes, I DID play sports. Many of them.

 

[PlayerRep]

Well, then let's just play the 8th grade JVers at Hellgate! That City Championship will be AWESOME!!! :roll:


We all understand it's about winning championships. So I guess we'll truly enjoy a conference championship (against legitimate DI competition), and a win against another conference champion in a Bowl game. To me, that's just as good (better??) as some "national" championship played in Taco Time soccer stadium, that no one outside of a few FCS fans even know exists. Let's be honest: it is a complete misnomer to call what happens in Frisco a "national" anything. Especially with the watered down, paper thin competition that FCS will soon be able to roll out there.



And yes, I DID play sports. Many of them.

Okay, my view is that you are old with some decent historical connections to UM. You don't live in MT and as a result don't attend many games, and you have few good connections to current UM sports now. Much of the current information you get is actually not very good, indirect, and not from the those associated directly with the team.

I will now go back to you post, and comment specifically.

 

[PlayerRep]

how is playing someone like North Texas in the New Mexico Bowl that much more exciting than a National Championship game

It may not be. But then, playing South Eastern New Mexico in an FCS title game won't be that exciting either.

Montana and other Sky schools have practically 0 chance at a national championship in college hoops, so why lose both shots at a National title by moving up?

If it's all about winning a national championship, why not move all programs down to DII? It has to be -- and IS -- more than that. I can't imagine ANY Weber fan supporting moving the basketball program down a level, and yet you have no shot ever to win a national championship. Why is not it not okay for basektball, but okay for football?

And how is winning the National FCS Championship not meaning anything?

It does. To us. But not to anyone else.

As far as I'm concerned, North Dakota State is the best, because they won the FCS title

I agree completely. The problem with the argument is that within a few years, NDSU will be an FBS team. THAT is the problem: the FCS was a fine level, and one where Montana belonged 10 years ago. But it's no where near the same as it was 10 years ago, and Montana is now one of the ONLY big fishes in the quickly draining pond. It's my opinion you should play with your peers. And like it or not, Montana doesn't have many of those at their current level (and fewer and fewer every single day).

1. SE New Mexico probably doesn't exist, and will never play in the championship game. The FCS championship game is a big deal, and big accomplishment for each school that gets there. Your comment is very disrespectful, and leads me to believe you never went very far in sports.

2. Almost no one moves down in any sport. Do you really not understand that moving up is different than moving up. Do you think climbing up a rock face cliff is the same as coming down? You can't be that dumb, I hope. Basketball is different than football. Please don't tell us that you don't understand that.

3. The FCS championship means alot to many people, particularly to those who have played sports at the college level. Almost anyone who every played college sports at any level would never diss a championship team that has won at any level. I have never encountered anyone, personally, who played college sports, who didn't respect a championship at any level. It's an incredible accomplishment.

4. UM is playing with its athletic peers. Even is NDS moves up, it will not make a big spash. It's where it should be. If NDS moves up, I look forward to it falling on its face.

 

[EverettGriz]

OFFS. Insert FACEPALM here.


Not that it's worth two shits, but:

1. I guess "old" is in the eye of the beholder. But I'm younger than you.

2. I don't even know what "historical" connections are. I don't know President Craig, if that's what you're referring to. I do, however, have some very good connections at UM, both in and out of the athletic department.

3. I'm a NEZ season ticket holder. Not that I understand WTF attendance at games has to do with recognizing that the FCS is a mere shadow of its former self.

4. The information I get is fine. And accurate. And for the most part, I'm guessing I have better connections on campus than you. But frankly, I don't really care, because I don't need "connections" to determine that the FCS is quickly becoming a glorified DII.


I so look forward to your comments.... :roll:

 

[EverettGriz]

Oh yeah. That was worth the wait....

1. The fact that neither of us knows for sure if SENM is real is proof enough for me!! Simply by suggesting that we could be playing a team which may -- or may not -- exist should tell you all you need to know. :lol: :lol:

2. Precisely. No one moves down because there is NO INCENTIVE, including economic, to DO SO. That's my point. Thanks for your rare agreement.

3. FCS title games are a great deal. I loved every year we went. I'd love it if we go back this year. And just like every year, I'd be there, at Taco Bell Soccer Stadium, decked out in Griz wear. I just think that if winning "national" championships (which aren't truly national) is the goal, then we're going about athletics all wrong at UM. To me, the world is a bigger, broader place.

4. No, no they're not. The University of Montana's peers are NOT Portland State, UNC, Eastern WA, etc. Montana's peers are Wyoming, Idaho, Washington State, Colorado State, New Mexico State, etc.

5. Damn, you're a pompous sumbitch.