CrunchGriz
Well-known member
TheBud said:
I had already upped the travel, based on increases to Utah's travel budget. Thanks for the tip, though!
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Move to FBS - Our own study
- Thread starter CrunchGriz
- Start date
I had already upped the travel, based on increases to Utah's travel budget. Thanks for the tip, though!
TheBud
Well-known member
It is the off-season and this thread is still pertinent. The UM should do a feasibility study to prepare for the future.
Personally, I have no interest in moving up in the near future. However, Montana may be forced to move up (in the 4 to 8 year range) to play any quality opponents and the FBS gets weaker due to others moving up or dropping football.
Personally, I have no interest in moving up in the near future. However, Montana may be forced to move up (in the 4 to 8 year range) to play any quality opponents and the FBS gets weaker due to others moving up or dropping football.
I get the sense that there is a fair amount of work behind the scenes beginning to lay the groundwork for a move. It would not surprise me if a feasibility study is in the works.
ronbo said:
I see that now. I really loathe these two year old posts that get dug up.
As to try to bring something useful to the discussion - one only needs to go see how things are done in the SEC. There is no way the Griz will ever be able to compete with that.
I don't think the Griz are in the wrong sub-division, I think a lot of other teams are. The universities like Sac st, UNC, NAU, EWU, etc. need to move down. And teams in the WAC, CUSA, MWC, Sun Belt, Etc need to move down and start a sub-division below the BCS conferences. And that subdivision should be a playoff division. So there would be three DI sub-divisions. BCS schools can offer 85 scholarships, FCS can offer 73, and FCS2 can offer 62. Get in were you fit in.
The Griz are out of their league right now. Our true competition should be the Wyoming's, BSU's, UNLV's, and Fresno's of the world. Add teams like Marshall, Bowling Green, La Tech, E. Carolina, C. Florida, Troy, S. Miss., I think Most of the CAA, etc. Make a division of schools that are not quite BCS size, but bigger than the current FCS average schools. Some schools like TCU, BYU, S. Florida, Etc should be moved into BCS conferences if they generate enough money to compete.
Of course I am just throwing names out there off the hip, but point being the Griz should be competing with higher-level teams, and some should not be trying to compete in the FBS that is ruled by the BCS world. I think the soon coming re-alignment of the NCAA football world will address these issues. But it will come with a lot of ruffled feathers a long the way.
I just saw the numbers for bowl revenues split for MWC and WAC for 2009 but did not write them down but my memory should be pretty close. The MWC split 9.4m amongst themselves and the WAC split 7.8m amongst themselves. This is the money that the schools split among themselves that did not go to a bowl Boise big bowl payout skews the numbers somewhat for the WAC.
Question: Even if a UM feasibility study concludes UM could "move up," and most of us think it would be either to the WAC or MWC (which I prefer), will the decision of the NCAA in 2011, reclassifying the conferences & schools, override that? IOW, will it make a bit of difference what UM wants to do?
I don't think the NCAA will consider football, alone. I don't think any of us know where the NCAA will come down. There are posts that talk about no FCS, no D-II, no BSC, no nothing. It may be that a UM feasibility study will show that UM can compete (in all sports) at a higher level, but it looks like the final determination is with the NCAA. (And, I know other than football, UM sports already compete at a higher level.) Just what influence does UM have on the NCAA as to its suitability to compete with football teams that many on here think it can? Just asking.
This talk is not just on this board. All FCS fans are wondering and speculating, as well.
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4
There are FCS schools I've not heard of talking about moving up.
I don't think the NCAA will consider football, alone. I don't think any of us know where the NCAA will come down. There are posts that talk about no FCS, no D-II, no BSC, no nothing. It may be that a UM feasibility study will show that UM can compete (in all sports) at a higher level, but it looks like the final determination is with the NCAA. (And, I know other than football, UM sports already compete at a higher level.) Just what influence does UM have on the NCAA as to its suitability to compete with football teams that many on here think it can? Just asking.
This talk is not just on this board. All FCS fans are wondering and speculating, as well.
http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=4
There are FCS schools I've not heard of talking about moving up.
Griz Growler
Well-known member
And they would never be in a championship bowl game ever again.GeauxGriz said:
TheBud
Well-known member
GeauxGriz,
The only way your idea would work is if teams had the ability to move up based on recent records and be forced down based on recent records. For example, as long as Boise shows that they can play with the big boys they get to stay in the upper subdivision. Washington State University should have to play in a lower subdivision until they can prove that they deserve to move back up.
Maybe there could be playoff for all 3 D1 subdivisions. The top 8 teams get to move up the next year. Conversely, the bottom 8 have to move down 1 notch.
The only way your idea would work is if teams had the ability to move up based on recent records and be forced down based on recent records. For example, as long as Boise shows that they can play with the big boys they get to stay in the upper subdivision. Washington State University should have to play in a lower subdivision until they can prove that they deserve to move back up.
Maybe there could be playoff for all 3 D1 subdivisions. The top 8 teams get to move up the next year. Conversely, the bottom 8 have to move down 1 notch.
TheBud said:
Now you are getting into the ruffled feathers part of my post. Of course the EWU's and NAU's of the world will be upset by a perceived move down. But they should not be if they really think about it. They will basically have the same level of competition, with a better chance at playoff success.
Now when we start talking those in-between schools like BSU, or the really poor teams that are in BCS conferences - like a WSU, it will really be a battle. Yeah, WSU sucks, and BSU has been winning - but I think this would need to be done like this:
- Any team that is currently in a BCS conference is in the BCS league.
- Any Team that has the current ability to generate $x will be placed in a BCS conference.
I think Teams like BYU, TCU, and maybe Utah type teams would be able to be moved into the BCS conferences. (This is not an all inclusive list - just a few examples)
I don't think teams like BSU have any business in the BCS system. Add to that list teams like UNVL, New Mexico, UTEP, etc. And I think that is the level of competition that the Griz should be playing. Sure we wouldn't be the big fish in a small pond anymore - but it is when you are a small fish in a big pond that you have the best chance to grow.
grizaremoregooder
Well-known member
Apparently you havn't watched how the Mountain West and WAC teams have been doing in bowl games recently. Boise St. has 20 starters coming back next year and just finished a season where they beat the Pac-10 champ and the Mountain West champ (Mountain West only had 1 bowl loss this year). They are 2-1 in BCS games and will likely play in a BCS game next year with everything coming back. Utah ripped Alabama last year (what a fricken joke!) and Boise OR TCU would have given them a better game than Texas did this year. Looks to me like the "mighty" BCS conferences are scared of the WAC and Mts. West when they pair them in the same game (TOTAL BS!). The gap between the haves and the have nots is rappidly shrinking-Boise has very good shot at winning the title game next year HOW DO THEY NOT BELONG?GeauxGriz said:
bobaloo said:
Your numbers are funny, because in the BCS (if I remember right), Michigan made more than TCU and Boise did from the BCS payoff. See anything wrong with that?
grizaremoregooder said:
Your argument is skewed. Boise is the only WAC team that has shown that it can compete w/ the rest of the BCS. The rest of the WAC is a joke. Hawaii was quickly discarded by Georgia because they were SEVERELY overrated and did not belong in that BCS game. They played two FCS opponents that year plus a soft WAC schedule. The MWC could legitimately hang w/ the BCS conferences, they have strength in the top 5-6 teams, and they have shown it. The WAC is a one-man band (Boise), with everyone else falling in line behind them (remind you of the Big Sky?). The BCS is afraid of the MWC because of teams like TCU, Utah, and BYU.. the BCS could care less about the WAC. Boise will be an MWC school soon enough.
grizaremoregooder said:
I can assure you that I waste way too much of my life watching college football. All of it from SEC to WAC to FCS.
First, I did not say in my argument that the ability to possibly beat any given team on any given saturday is part of the criteria for who will move where. My argument is based more on size of school and ability to generate money.
And this is why many will have their feathers ruffled. BSU feels like they belong. But if you have ever been to an SEC football game, it becomes clear that while the BSU's, Utah's of the world can win a bowl game against an SEC school on any given Saturday, they do not belong in the same league.
The problem is that BSU does not have the resources to consistently draw top recruiting classes. They have a great system, and coaches, and athletes that can get it done - but so do 11 teams in the SEC. All you have to do is go look at the top recruiting classes over the last few years. This year the SEC had 6 of the top 10 recruiting classes.
No team in the WAC (and maybe only a few outside of the current BCS schools) can spend the resources to consistently compete with the amazing embarrassment of riches the BCS conference schools have.
Where this really gets tricky is when you start talking those bottom teams in the BCS conferences. Vanderbilt is no better off than BSU when it comes to football. WSU is no better off than BYU. But the line is going to have to be drawn somewhere.
(*as a side note, and unrelated to this topic - I honestly think BSU has a chance to win the MNC next year. But I think that is unfair. If next year's BSU team played in the SEC West I am sure they would lose several games. Sort of like when they took their highly touted team to Georgia and got absolutely abused. It is one thing to beat a good team, but quite another when you have to beat three or four in consecutive weeks — with several of those on the road in stadiums like the Swamp or Death Valley. I'd be happy to argue this through with any of y'all, but it should be moved to the other sports board if you'd like to partake.)
