Move to FBS - Our own study

[CrunchGriz]

I'll leave all of you to argue over where the annual $5.8M-$10M will come from.

- Raise ticket prices. (that wouldn't be super popular, but probably would have to be done).

- Increase corporate sponsorships, marketing events. (Might be easier to do that expected with more teams/players/events).

- TV/Conference/Bowl revenues. (a lot of that will hinge on success).

- Larger stadiums + continued success = more ticket sales/fans/merchandise (best-case scenario, what if the teams cannot preform and lose fan base?)

*** However - I don't think any of those will make up enough $$ each year and some are based on success and you should build a solid budget on what might possibly happen, but what will happen for sure, the unknows that came in should be treated as bonuses. ***

To a large degree, both of the bolded items above are already included in the calculation that comes out at $5.8M annual increase in required funding (30,000 seat stadium, conference payments for TV and bowl bowl game revenues).

You could always make the stadium even larger if the demand increases even more, but this would be offset to some degree by the increased debt service for the extra construction.

 

[Silvertip]

I'll leave all of you to argue over where the annual $5.8M-$10M will come from.

- Raise ticket prices. (that wouldn't be super popular, but probably would have to be done).

- Increase corporate sponsorships, marketing events. (Might be easier to do that expected with more teams/players/events).

- TV/Conference/Bowl revenues. (a lot of that will hinge on success).

- Larger stadiums + continued success = more ticket sales/fans/merchandise (best-case scenario, what if the teams cannot preform and lose fan base?)

*** However - I don't think any of those will make up enough $$ each year and some are based on success and you should build a solid budget on what might possibly happen, but what will happen for sure, the unknows that came in should be treated as bonuses. ***

To a large degree, both of the bolded items above are already included in the calculation that comes out at $5.8M annual increase in required funding (30,000 seat stadium, conference payments for TV and bowl bowl game revenues).

You could always make the stadium even larger if the demand increases even more, but this would be offset to some degree by the increased debt service for the extra construction.

Crunch: Re Future WGS expansions. An exchange of emails I had with someone inside the athletic department suggested that any future meaningful expansions may be very difficult. Consider that what started as a classic symmetrical stadium is experiencing the third piece meal expansion since WGS opened in 1986.

These admissions are not the administrations, but mine. The department statement was that the current eastside project may, at some point possibly allow another 1,000or so seats. But the shocker is that the west side, because of the athletic facility space constructed below ground level adjacent to the Adams Center, probably would not accommodate the support structures needed to construct an upper deck or an enlarged new press box and suites. Get this! I was told that not only would any substantial number of additional seats be in the south end zone - but even the press box might have to go there. I'd like to think I was having my leg pulled, but who knows.

Where did it all go wrong? Clearly, there never was an orderly expansion plan created when WGS was built. Bill Moos' end zone project, laying seats on the earthen berms made sense, but ideally any end zone seating should have been the final chapter after both sidelines were decked to maintain the symmetry. But the real clinker was Wayne Hogan's challenging south end extension including "batwings" with its elaborate elevated engineering and extensive materials usage. The money for that 2003 project probably could have been put to better use adding those 4,000 seats on the east side where Dennison, five years later, is placing half that number while effectively eliminating the prospects for any real additional seats because of the new club seats and suites.

WGS, once a classically designed stadium has become a strange structure in which none of its four sides are alike. George Dennison, with his lack of vision coupled with a haphazard approach to adding seats to match only an immediate supply and demand situation, is in my opinion the primary culprit. Oh Yeah, my Adams Center confidant said that even though the south end zone is the most likely spot for the next 5,000 seats nobody has yet addressed what to do about GrizVision should that occur?

 

[SuperHornet]

Here's the solution to the piecemeal expansion problem: demolish WaGriz and replace it with the new 100K seat Don Read Field at Chris Lynn Stadium!

:laugh:

I'm being somewhat facetious, of course, but two things are clear here: if Griz fans are not happy with how WaGriz looks, then it should be replaced by something fitting their vision of the future of Griz football, and something should be done to honor one of the deans of American football. This would seem to be a nice way to do it.

 

[Pioneerloft]

30000 seats is not big enough for MWC school. I think thats whats holding boise State back even with its new press box.

BYU indoor practice field was 38 million.

New Mexico is going to go to 50,000 seats.

Better look to the WAC. I think you guys would do great in the WAC... Finish top 3 every year.

But this is a big ?... if the MWC took Fresno and Boise State do you really want to move up to nothing.

Tyler

 

[Silvertip]

The unlikely scenario that would put UM in the MWC would be as ill-fated as the Griz situation when they were the redheaded stepchild of the Pacific Coast Conference into the early 1950's. I'm all for Montana to move up, just not that far ....UM and the WAC would still be the ideal match.

 

[Hells bells]

30000 seats is not big enough for MWC school. I think thats whats holding boise State back even with its new press box.

BYU indoor practice field was 38 million.

New Mexico is going to go to 50,000 seats.

Better look to the WAC. I think you guys would do great in the WAC... Finish top 3 every year.

But this is a big ?... if the MWC took Fresno and Boise State do you really want to move up to nothing.

Tyler

I dont think that UM having a 40,000 seat stadium and selling it out as the griz are right now is not a sreach of the imagionation.

HM

 

[MrTitleist]

30000 seats is not big enough for MWC school. I think thats whats holding boise State back even with its new press box.

BYU indoor practice field was 38 million.

New Mexico is going to go to 50,000 seats.

Better look to the WAC. I think you guys would do great in the WAC... Finish top 3 every year.

But this is a big ?... if the MWC took Fresno and Boise State do you really want to move up to nothing.

Tyler

War Memorial in Laramie holds about 32,000, Hughes Stadium in Fort Collins holds 34,000 (plus grass seating), Sam Boyd in Las Vegas holds about 32,000. New Mexico will not fill a 50,000 seat stadium. Wyoming has a brand new indoor facility that didn't cost anywhere near 38 million if I remember right. Stadium isn't holding Boise back right now.

 

[kemajic]

The unlikely scenario that would put UM in the MWC would be as ill-fated as the Griz situation when they were the redheaded stepchild of the Pacific Coast Conference into the early 1950's. I'm all for Montana to move up, just not that far ....UM and the WAC would still be the ideal match.

Probably an even better match would be movement of the MWC and WAC top powers to form a stronger conference. UM would fit very nicely with the leftover programs into a lower stature FBS conference. While that may spark criticism as to how strong a confernce it might be, it would run circles around the BSC in every way. Both new conferences would be very competitive. I know, that sounds too threatening to the status quo crowd.

 

[Pioneerloft]

Wont happen.

This is what is likly to unfold..

Boise State and Fresno State to the MWC plus one more Texas School either UTEP or SMU/Houston.

Why the TV package with CBS Collegesports and Comcast is huge money. The Wac ESPN is 1 million a year and the MTN West is like 12 Million.

Unlv is looking at a new stadium, Wyoming is in only because of the long tradition of the old wac. CSU is a smaller stadium yes. New Mexico has been solid at football and if that keeps up feeling 50000 is not out of the ?.

But also SDSU, TCU, Utah are all about 40-45K and BYU 64 with many thinking a new east upperdeck will be in pushing them to near 80K in the next few years. They have sold 54000 season tickets and we got 2 months to go.

Utah has sold 34000 this was in a salt lake paper.

Would you guys still want to go in the WAC if the top 2 teams are Nevada and Haw....?

I am not sure if thats any better than the old big west.

Idaho should go back to the Big Sky. IMHO the Big Sky has become very poor and should add the Dakotas with Utah Valley and Southern Utah.

Tyler

 

[Hells bells]

Wont happen.

This is what is likly to unfold..

Boise State and Fresno State to the MWC plus one more Texas School either UTEP or SMU/Houston.

Why the TV package with CBS Collegesports and Comcast is huge money. The Wac ESPN is 1 million a year and the MTN West is like 12 Million.

Unlv is looking at a new stadium, Wyoming is in only because of the long tradition of the old wac. CSU is a smaller stadium yes. New Mexico has been solid at football and if that keeps up feeling 50000 is not out of the ?.

But also SDSU, TCU, Utah are all about 40-45K and BYU 64 with many thinking a new east upperdeck will be in pushing them to near 80K in the next few years. They have sold 54000 season tickets and we got 2 months to go.

Utah has sold 34000 this was in a salt lake paper.

Would you guys still want to go in the WAC if the top 2 teams are Nevada and Haw....?

I am not sure if thats any better than the old big west.

Idaho should go back to the Big Sky. IMHO the Big Sky has become very poor and should add the Dakotas with Utah Valley and Southern Utah.

Tyler

Good luck - NDSU is going to the gateway, i doubt the big sky will let UND in for the same reasons why NDSU wasnt let in (which is a mystery to me other then hardship of travel from sac/portaland/flagstaff to fargo/grand forks)

 

[MrTitleist]

Wont happen.

This is what is likly to unfold..

Boise State and Fresno State to the MWC plus one more Texas School either UTEP or SMU/Houston.

Why the TV package with CBS Collegesports and Comcast is huge money. The Wac ESPN is 1 million a year and the MTN West is like 12 Million.

Unlv is looking at a new stadium, Wyoming is in only because of the long tradition of the old wac. CSU is a smaller stadium yes. New Mexico has been solid at football and if that keeps up feeling 50000 is not out of the ?.

But also SDSU, TCU, Utah are all about 40-45K and BYU 64 with many thinking a new east upperdeck will be in pushing them to near 80K in the next few years. They have sold 54000 season tickets and we got 2 months to go.

Utah has sold 34000 this was in a salt lake paper.

Would you guys still want to go in the WAC if the top 2 teams are Nevada and Haw....?

I am not sure if thats any better than the old big west.

Idaho should go back to the Big Sky. IMHO the Big Sky has become very poor and should add the Dakotas with Utah Valley and Southern Utah.

Tyler

Wyoming was a charter member of the WAC and MWC.. they're not going anywhere. Their program is growing, and facilities are much improved. Much better than CSU's.

The only reason that SDSU is high in stadium capacity is because they have benefit of playing in an NFL stadium, which they do not draw big crowds for.. they're not a good football team, never have been. Not since Marshall Faulk and Dan McGwire.

 

[kemajic]

Would you guys still want to go in the WAC if the top 2 teams are Nevada and Haw....?

I am not sure if thats any better than the old big west.

Idaho should go back to the Big Sky. IMHO the Big Sky has become very poor and should add the Dakotas with Utah Valley and Southern Utah.

Tyler

Yes, Yes, Yes. It would be even better if Hawaii left as well to make travel costs more realistic. A conference made up of WAC and MWC leftovers would be far better than what's in the BSC these days and would likely be very competitive. Idaho could survive in that situation.

Now the BSC may be bad, but adding So. Utah and Utah Valley (?) is not about to make it better. We don't believe they could beat Carroll College, an NAIA team. Last time I checked, the Dakotas and SUU are members of the Great West Conference, SUU the perenniel doormat. Adding the Utah JCs would however be consistent with the adding of No. CO a few years ago and continue the BSC downward trend. It could be Div. II.

 

[Bozgriz]

yep.

 

[TheBud]

As I remember, Boise State gained a lot in revenue and exposure during its many Thursday night home games to get the ESPN money. Obviously, it worked for them.

If Montana makes the move, we have to jump in with both feet and sacrifice a lot.

 

[Pioneerloft]

do not under estimate what Utah Valley could bring.


25000 students would make it one or the largest in the BSC... Larger than say Weber State and your montana schools.

MSU 12170
Montana 13858

they would also bring a very good rival for Weber and Idaho State being they are close.

 

[kemajic]

do not under estimate what Utah Valley could bring.


25000 students would make it one or the largest in the BSC... Larger than say Weber State and your montana schools.

MSU 12170
Montana 13858

they would also bring a very good rival for Weber and Idaho State being they are close.

Since I had never heard of them I had to do a search. Do they even play football at any level? I couldn't find any evidece of it. This is a football forum, you know.

The BSC had a non-FB school once before and that didn't work out. The BSC school enrollments do not include two year vocational and tech programs which seem to still be a big part of Utah Valley. Besides, overall enrollement is generally not a good measure of a football program. But I'd love to see them replace UM in the BSC....

 

[SuperHornet]

Idaho should go back to the Big Sky. IMHO the Big Sky has become very poor and should add the Dakotas with Utah Valley and Southern Utah.

Why is it that people keep wanting to bring in a glorified juco and a school that couldn't even win a conference title from a 4-6 team? Makes no sense. Even in the state that the Sky is in now, it's MUCH better than that.

 

[Pioneerloft]

Nope but they do plan on playing in the next 2 years at our level and are as of today a member of the Great West Conf.

Tyler

Utah Valley University Director of Athletics Mike Jacobsen announced at a press conference Thursday the school's affiliation with the Great West Conference. The Great West is expanding from a football-only conference to include at least six schools and 14 sports.

By expanding to an all-sports league, the Great West has invited six schools to enter under the Great West umbrella and begin competing in several sports in the 2008-09 year. Teams will begin to play full conference schedules in team sports and conduct the full complement of championships in 2009-10.

"This is a great day for Wolverine athletics, our university, and our community," Jacobsen said. "We're excited to take this step for our athletic program in addition to the school's advancement to a university."

Other speakers at the press conference included Vice President for Student Affairs Cory Duckworth, head men's basketball coach Dick Hunsaker, and head women's volleyball head coach Sam Atoa.

"We extend an invitation to the community to rally behind the Wolverines," Duckworth stated. "This community has always responded to that call, and we look forward to serving them as we move forward in athletics and as a university."

The schools joining UV as members of the all-sports league are Houston Baptist University, New Jersey Institution of Technology (NJIT), the University of North Dakota, University of South Dakota, and the University of Texas-Pan American. All six schools have accepted the invitation, and additional institutions may announce their acceptance in the next few months.

The Great West Football Conference includes the University of North Dakota, the University of South Dakota, Cal Poly, UC Davis and Southern Utah. Football-only members Cal Poly and UC Davis will remain in the Big West for the balance of their athletic teams, while Southern Utah will continue to compete in the Summit League.

North Dakota and South Dakota, new football members that will begin play in the fall, as well as Houston Baptist are currently in their second year of transition up to the Division I level. All three schools will become NCAA Division I counters for scheduling purposes in 2009-10. Texas-Pan American has been member of NCAA Division I for many years, while Utah Valley University and NJIT become active Division I member in 2009-10.

The only Wolverine program that will not participate in Great West play is the wrestling program, which is already a member of the Western Wrestling Conference.

 

[kemajic]

Complicated. Seems they are well placed where they are.

 

[TheBud]

Better up the travel costs on the spreadsheet:

Travel costs for athletics are increasing significantly (20% this year according to the Wyo. AD).

More teams and AD's are looking for games requiring only bus transportation. I assume this will be an important factor in UM's OOC scheduling, as it was in the aftermath of the budget deficit.

"The increased costs of travel will also impact our ability to secure non-conference opponents to come to Laramie as teams are looking for bus trips rather than flight and bus trips. We believe that it is realistic to expect travel expenses to increase by 20 percent this year and who knows where and when they will finally stabilize."

This quote, involving info from the Wyo. AD, was taken from the article in Billings Pokes' thread on Budget Info.