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Mountain West Conference Revenue

Even if it were 5 million, it would come close to even paying for coaches salaries.

Its fun seeing PR in his true element. I'd love to see his "estimates" if he were selling instead of buying here. I bet he could find at least 20 million in income without even trying.........
 
PlayerRep said:
If UM was very successful relatively quickly, attendance would decline fairly rapidly, in my view. Losing to BYU or Air Force doesn't excite me. Playing Utah St, etc. also doesn't excite me. I'd much rather play App St, other top FCS programs, compete for the conference championship, and participate in the playoffs. The playoffs are the best part of FCS, and the road to getting to the playoffs and earning higher seeds for home games, is very exciting.

Uh, PR....check your text messages. All the "top FCS programs" are moving up.

UMass? Gone
ASU? Gone
GSU? Gone
ODU? Gone, and only here for a blink of an eye
Boise? Gone
Idaho? Gone
Western KY? Gone
Villanova? Looking hard at leaving
NDSU? FCS is a stepping stone

We're gonna be left with Western Oregon & Western State of Colorado....

Oh, and playoffs ARE coming to the 2nd tier FBS schools. Bank it.
 
OrgonGriz said:
Come on people face the facts and get real here. UM makes next to nothing in the BSC. No one out side of a very few FCS markets gives a crap about FCS. We are DivII in most people mind. UM wouls make more money at the FBS level. Yes it would cost more to play there but in the wnd we would make more $. Added to that better national exposure which leads to more enrollment, more and better athleates. College football is no longer just a game, it's a business. If UM does not realize this then they are in for a world of hurt. Times have changed folks we have to change with them even as muc as we may not like or want to. Billings Poke is right in that we would have a much more exciting brand off football at that level. Yes the atmosphere at WA Griz is awesome. But what about UofI, UNC, PSU, etc, etc. At the next level every game we went out of town to would have at least 12k at them but I suspect much more. We would have OOC games with PAC12 schools every year I would imagine. I also think we would get WSU and OSU, Utah to work at home and away deals. There is so much more potential of good at the next level. We just have to be willing to take on the risk and challenge. Or we be complacent and sit by and watch others pass us by.
And yet again I ask: were Montana to move, where would they go? There are NO conferences in the west begging for UM to join them.
 
'68griz said:
And yet again I ask: were Montana to move, where would they go? There are NO conferences in the west begging for UM to join them.
I agree Montana is not a candidate to move up right now, but not because of a conference limitation. Sunbelt is now a 12 team conference. If Montana wanted to join for football only they might need a partner, like Montana State, to create a 14 team conference, two 7 team divisions. However WKU is rumored to be leaving, which will create room for 1 more team as it is, and I am sure they would like to have a travel partner for Idaho. Even better add Cal Poly and UC Davis for two 8 team divisions. If these Universities requested it the Sunbelt would make it happen (Benson would do it just to slap Fullerton back).
 
Grizbeer said:
'68griz said:
And yet again I ask: were Montana to move, where would they go? There are NO conferences in the west begging for UM to join them.
I agree Montana is not a candidate to move up right now, but not because of a conference limitation. Sunbelt is now a 12 team conference. If Montana wanted to join for football only they might need a partner, like Montana State, to create a 14 team conference, two 7 team divisions. However WKU is rumored to be leaving, which will create room for 1 more team as it is, and I am sure they would like to have a travel partner for Idaho. Even better add Cal Poly and UC Davis for two 8 team divisions. If these Universities requested it the Sunbelt would make it happen (Benson would do it just to slap Fullerton back).

In any scenario, Montana and Montana State are joined at the hip to move anywhere. I'm guessing we'd drop to to intramural before NOT rather than even a remote possibility of disturbing that rivalry
 
Grizbeer said:
PlayerRep said:
Yes, UM doesn't make much from the conference in the Big Sky, but it also doesn't have the huge additional expenses of being FBS. FCS in general, and UM in particular, are much better known nationally, and respected by many, than what you say. In my view, winning and participating in championships attracts more good attention and more students, than just being in FBS as an also-ran. If UM were to move up without adequate funding, this would decrease the chance of success. If UM was very successful relatively quickly, attendance would decline fairly rapidly, in my view. Losing to BYU or Air Force doesn't excite me. Playing Utah St, etc. also doesn't excite me. I'd much rather play App St, other top FCS programs, compete for the conference championship, and participate in the playoffs. The playoffs are the best part of FCS, and the road to getting to the playoffs and earning higher seeds for home games, is very exciting.

This whole exercise is pretty silly right now, because UM isn't going anywhere. But for the sake of argument, wouldn't you entire statement also apply to moving down to D-II, or better yet, NAIA and the frontier conference? For example:

UM would receive less money from the conference (due to NCAA basketball tournament revenues) if we dropped down to NAIA, but costs would be significantly lower - fewer scholarships, more scholarships filled from in-state due to the lower competition level, especially for non-revenue sports, and travel would be significantly reduced.

A few teams, like Montana and now North Dakota State, are nationally know due to their success in the playoffs. Carroll College had a picture on the cover of Sports Illustrated after winning their national title. D-II Grand Valley State and Valdost are probably better know nationally than 90% of teh FCS programs. Orgon Griz is correct that the National perception of FCS is that it is D-II. It is infuriating, but it is what it is, anyone that doesn't explicitly follow FCS football thinks of it as less than D-I. I think it would be hard to argue that in general the National perception FCS is above NAIA or D-II, especially when you consider one of the auto-bid conferences to the FCS playoffs offer no scholarships, so is essentially D-III.

As a State research University, Montana would be expected to be immediately successful at the lower level of competition, and win multiple National Championships. This should generate higher attendance for Montana.

frankly losing Southern Utah, Northern Arizona and North Dakota doesn't excite me. Playing Sac State and Northern Colorado doesn't excite me. I would rather face and compete with top ranked NAIA program like Carroll College and St. Francis.

Montana's basketball programs could actually compete and win national championships, boosting attendance and revenues for the athletic budget.

I am not suggesting Montana should move down, although UM has moved down several times in their history, and attempted to reduce football scholarships several more times, the latest being 1993 when Dennison pushed through a resolution in the Big Sky to reduce football scholarships by 18. This was the last straw for the Idaho BOE, and it allowed BSU and Idaho to leave the conference rather than try to compete at the DII level of scholarships. However the good arguments you make for staying FCS also apply to dropping to D-II or NAIA, and I am sure this will not escape Pat Williams attention.

No, I don't agree that the argument would apply equally to moving down. There would be a huge loss of revenue associated with moving down, and the cost savings would be overshadowed by the huge loss in revenue (ticket revenue and other revenue).
 
AZGrizFan said:
PlayerRep said:
If UM was very successful relatively quickly, attendance would decline fairly rapidly, in my view. Losing to BYU or Air Force doesn't excite me. Playing Utah St, etc. also doesn't excite me. I'd much rather play App St, other top FCS programs, compete for the conference championship, and participate in the playoffs. The playoffs are the best part of FCS, and the road to getting to the playoffs and earning higher seeds for home games, is very exciting.

Uh, PR....check your text messages. All the "top FCS programs" are moving up.

UMass? Gone
ASU? Gone
GSU? Gone
ODU? Gone, and only here for a blink of an eye
Boise? Gone
Idaho? Gone
Western KY? Gone
Villanova? Looking hard at leaving
NDSU? FCS is a stepping stone

We're gonna be left with Western Oregon & Western State of Colorado....

Oh, and playoffs ARE coming to the 2nd tier FBS schools. Bank it.

Nope, all the top FCS teams are not moving up. Jeez, Boise and Idaho were gone decades ago. UMass hasn't been competitive for a number years. ODU isn't a top program. ASU and Geo So are top programs. Villanover was near the top only for a fairly short period of time. Where's NDS going?
 
I remember when PR spent time quoting financials for the UMass move. Said it would never happen. Privately told me it simply couldn't happen. But it did. However, I had a very good inside source.

To be fair he did say he didn't think it would actually happen. Of course now there is concern on those same financials, hence the internal push to move from the MAC to the "former" Big East future whatever it is conference. However Tulsa is getting that invite.
 
PlayerRep said:
No, I don't agree that the argument would apply equally to moving down. There would be a huge loss of revenue associated with moving down, and the cost savings would be overshadowed by the huge loss in revenue (ticket revenue and other revenue).

Curious why you think attendance would drop? Montana should have a better winning percentage, and more playoff success and national Championships. They would be playing top level teams in their relative division, including playing teams with National recognition. Are these not the ingredients for fan support and booster support? Or are you saying that fans would take fewer wins to be able to play a higher level of competition?

edit: I do want to clarify something here before this gets off track. I agree with you that right now UM does not have the financial ability or, more importantly, the political will to move up to FBS. I don't have any kind of belief that Montana will move to that level. Where we might disagree is I believe Montana should have a vision and a goal to move to that level, that FBS is where a school like Montana belongs, and could in time be competitive and provide a good experience for the fans while increasing the name recognition and image of the University. I am not saying compete for the FBS National Championship mind you, but I sure wouldn't mind going to Arizona or Hawaii or San Diego (or even Las Vegas) in December for a bowl game every once in a while. But first a plan has to be developed and have solid backing of the alumni, administration and boosters to do it right.
 
From Idaho AD rob spear

If the MWC is the top ranked non Q conference it will pull in $18.4 million dollars to distribute to its members. If it is the 2nd ranked non AQ conference it will pull in $17.4 million to send to its members. this money if from the new BCS playoff plan.

MWC will be just above the $50 million mark to distribute to its members beginning in 2014 even with a second place conference finish. BTW each year that Playoff $$ number increases. From $82 million in 2014 to $92 million in 2017 so the pay out will increase over the next few years

So 2014 for MWC conference payout

$20 million TV deal
$17.4 million as second ranked non AQ league
$7 million in bowl revenue
$7 million in NCAA and other revenue

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=205&f=2664&t=11421547" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spears also expects a new FBS conference to be born as more and more FCS teams move up. I don't think he thinks anyone is going to drop down and join the FCS ranks, in fact just the opposite

Interesting read on Idaho Board and it shows just how important it is to invite competitive teams to the conference and not just potential
 
PlayerRep said:
billings_poke said:
PlayerRep said:
Glad you're getting more realistic. You were saying that UM could get $5 million previously, in that discussion. Now you're saying some teams will be getting only $3.5 million. I don't think that number is realistic either, based on eyeballing the numbers in these articles.

Enjoyed the discussion, tho. Going to bed now.

will agree it is complicated and until after the first year is over we won't really know how much each team makes. Still think the range is $3.5 million - $5 million total conference payout to teams. depending on each teams schedule

the thought for Montana is that you could pull bigger crowds and more money is Boise, Idaho, and Nevada for example came back to town

$3.5 maybe, eventually. $5 million, no way in the foreseeable future.

By the way, I went back and looked at your original $5 million figure and how you stated it. You said:

"$5 million per year is about what the MWC pays out to its members."

That's absolutely false. For the prior year, or for prior year for which figures seemed to be available online, the figure was either $1.6 or $1.8 million paid out.

If it is now said that it looks like the MW will be able to pay out about $3.5 per year to conference members (if all goes well), after the playoff/bowl system is created and changed, then I can accept that.

yea i was referring to conference payout once the playoff scenario begins in 2014 and that is when any new members would join. I should have stated that.

I think your numbers are low on the MWC payout in 2014 though, and I see each member getting about $4 million base and some $5 million or more once TV bonus money is in. Time will tell where it falls

SO worst case here for each team to get (lets pull $6 million out of the 18 million in playoff money for TV bonuses and assume hawaii gets an equal share of the base Playoff money).

$20 million between 11 members for Tv or 1.8 million each
$14 million bowl and NCAA revenue between 12 members $1.16 million
Base Playoff payout of $12 million or $1 million per team


So in 2014 each member of the MWC (not including Hawaii) gets $3.96 Million in Conference money and add bonus on top of that from the $6 million dollar we held out of playoff money check.

Hawaii gets their $2.3 million in PPV (I hope) plus $1 million in Playoff money and $583.000 in Bowl revenue split and no BB revenue sharing or about $3.83 million

so in 2014 the MWC will have doubled their payouts to individual teams. I don't see anyone giving that up to move to FCS.
 
ordigger said:
I remember when PR spent time quoting financials for the UMass move. Said it would never happen. Privately told me it simply couldn't happen. But it did. However, I had a very good inside source.

To be fair he did say he didn't think it would actually happen. Of course now there is concern on those same financials, hence the internal push to move from the MAC to the "former" Big East future whatever it is conference. However Tulsa is getting that invite.

Not true. Never said it would never happen, I don't believe. Didn't think they'd get the money to do it, though. Did they ever actually get the money the early study said they needed.

I remember ordigger telling the basketball board that Will Cherry wasn't a great player, that he was not only not improving, and he didn't have the skills to be a point guard. Guess he got that one wrong. Now, watch him become a crybaby.
 
Grizbeer said:
PlayerRep said:
No, I don't agree that the argument would apply equally to moving down. There would be a huge loss of revenue associated with moving down, and the cost savings would be overshadowed by the huge loss in revenue (ticket revenue and other revenue).

Curious why you think attendance would drop? Montana should have a better winning percentage, and more playoff success and national Championships. They would be playing top level teams in their relative division, including playing teams with National recognition. Are these not the ingredients for fan support and booster support? Or are you saying that fans would take fewer wins to be able to play a higher level of competition?

edit: I do want to clarify something here before this gets off track. I agree with you that right now UM does not have the financial ability or, more importantly, the political will to move up to FBS. I don't have any kind of belief that Montana will move to that level. Where we might disagree is I believe Montana should have a vision and a goal to move to that level, that FBS is where a school like Montana belongs, and could in time be competitive and provide a good experience for the fans while increasing the name recognition and image of the University. I am not saying compete for the FBS National Championship mind you, but I sure wouldn't mind going to Arizona or Hawaii or San Diego (or even Las Vegas) in December for a bowl game every once in a while. But first a plan has to be developed and have solid backing of the alumni, administration and boosters to do it right.

No, I'm saying UM is at the right level for it at time. Shouldn't move up; shouldn't move down.
 
This is an interesting discussion, but conference revenue is only one piece of the puzzle. No question revenue goes up in FBS, ticket prices will double; conference revenue goes up; paydays for body bag games skyrocket ( CU got $1 million from Ohio State two years ago); donors may donate more. But costs go up a lot too, coaching salaries will go up hundreds of percent; more scholarships must be funded; travel is way more expensive; recruiting becomes very costly, facilities must be upgraded.

The question is: what's the net of all of this and who pays it?
 
Question...do you think the UM Admin is just biding it's time to see how this all plays out? Less uncertainty means more informed decision.

I guess it depends upon the camp you are in. App and GSU may be saying lets join the SBC to get our foot in the door and then we can see where the changes lead to and we will be more marketable for, hopefully, a better conference affiliation and sheer number of FBS teams in their area...where Montana may be saying lets stay put to see what happens and then make the decision to see if moving makes sense due to lack of FBS teams in the West. Two different roads to the same path???

Honestly, those saying ticket prices will double...we are already paying $55+ for homecoming and Griz/Cat so what if you are paying $50 for all games. IF people eventually see Washington St, Washington, Wyoming, etc. they will pay it for a few years because of the novelty. The fan base won't get tired of losing for at least 3 years because of the chance to see the newer teams that will come to Wa/Griz
 
AZGrizFan said:
PlayerRep said:
If UM was very successful relatively quickly, attendance would decline fairly rapidly, in my view. Losing to BYU or Air Force doesn't excite me. Playing Utah St, etc. also doesn't excite me. I'd much rather play App St, other top FCS programs, compete for the conference championship, and participate in the playoffs. The playoffs are the best part of FCS, and the road to getting to the playoffs and earning higher seeds for home games, is very exciting.

Uh, PR....check your text messages. All the "top FCS programs" are moving up.

UMass? Gone
ASU? Gone
GSU? Gone
ODU? Gone, and only here for a blink of an eye
Boise? Gone
Idaho? Gone
Western KY? Gone
Villanova? Looking hard at leaving
NDSU? FCS is a stepping stone

We're gonna be left with Western Oregon & Western State of Colorado....

Oh, and playoffs ARE coming to the 2nd tier FBS schools. Bank it.


I'm just confused on the point PlayerRep is arguing about. PR are you sayin" the Griz would be better off in the BSC vs the MWC? Give me a break!
 
PR...PR....PR...I paid you a compliment and you still became a dumbsh**. I have all the PMs.

Let me give you a summary:

"...I don't believe it. I have my sources too.....Much of what you are saying about moving up has not been accurate. Your recent post....was misleading..."

then a number of blah, blah comments you found online. I remember laughing my ass off because of my connections inside UMass. You quoted a number of articles there. Said your trips to the east coast gave your knowledge. You would check with friends (they were wrong). Face it your connections were never as good as mine are.

"UMass may want to move up but.......its not close to being financially feasible. I don't have recent info, ...." blah, blah, blah


And now onto Cherry being the dumbsh** that you are....

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55512

I said quite clearly Cherry was one of the best players we ever had. At the time I wrote that his numbers before conference last year were down. I also stated that we knew he could improve those numbers in conference. I also stated that his numbers as a "traditonal" point guard were not good. I stand by those numbers. IMO he ends his career as one of the 5 best ever, but he is not the best overall. I gave documented numbers from his season at THAT time.

You've gone up against me twice.....and you're 0-2. Stay in your own sandbox and play. I'd quote you but have you blocked.
 
ordigger said:
PR...PR....PR...I paid you a compliment and you still became a dumbsh**. I have all the PMs.

Let me give you a summary:

"...I don't believe it. I have my sources too.....Much of what you are saying about moving up has not been accurate. Your recent post....was misleading..."

then a number of blah, blah comments you found online. I remember laughing my ass off because of my connections inside UMass. You quoted a number of articles there. Said your trips to the east coast gave your knowledge. You would check with friends (they were wrong). Face it your connections were never as good as mine are.

"UMass may want to move up but.......its not close to being financially feasible. I don't have recent info, ...." blah, blah, blah


And now onto Cherry being the dumbsh** that you are....

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55512

I said quite clearly Cherry was one of the best players we ever had. At the time I wrote that his numbers before conference last year were down. I also stated that we knew he could improve those numbers in conference. I also stated that his numbers as a "traditonal" point guard were not good. I stand by those numbers. IMO he ends his career as one of the 5 best ever, but he is not the best overall. I gave documented numbers from his season at THAT time.

You've gone up against me twice.....and you're 0-2. Stay in your own sandbox and play. I'd quote you but have you blocked.

I know this is a football thread, but you do mean one of the 5 best guards ever? (and that might be stretching it a bit)
 
ordigger, when it comes to sports, you don't know what you're talking about. You dissed Cherry multiple times. Just admit it. I had to laugh at what you posted about UMass. It doesn't support the BS about you said I said about UMass. You posted PM's, which by the egriz rules are supposed to be confidential, not that I care. You are weak.

You have supported the Missoulian in recent times. What is wrong with you?

You are thin-skinned.

Like I said, you are a crybaby.
 
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