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Montana's US News and World Report college ranking
- Thread starter Jaredkuehn
- Start date
bigsky33 said:
Quality of education matters little in the decision making process. Jobs after school (and starting salaries) do (right now.) It also explains the difference in Forbes and USNRR ranking. Forbes is dependent on starting salaries Which is why STEM related education is hot right now, as with all trends, it changes (and rapidly) STEM is nothing more than high priced vocational training preparing one for a particular job/career. Nothing wrong with that if one wants to be locked into that for life. STEM grad soon learn that their starting salaries are pretty much their ending salaries and eventually seek something better (New engineers (cheaper) have equal and often better skills than old engineers.
Upper lever engineering firms are manage by Better Educated folk not basic engineers. But one must note that nationwide (and U of M in particular) that Grad school enrollments are on the rise, STEM graduates being the major source of the increase. It could be said that in Montana. One gets a degree at MSU and a job and then come to U of M to get educated, and that wouldn't be far from the truth.
tnt said:
Great post. Look at the highest salaries at Amazon or Boeing. They’re not engineers I assure you. Business — even high tech — still greatly values independent thinkers who can communicate. And they reward those employees.
tnt said:
i am a big advocate of a well-rounded education, and have led university-wide initiatives to mandate a certain level of "liberal arts" coursework for all graduates in the past, because they are often overlooked as an important component of a well-rounded education, and for preparing people for success. however, i don't think any of these statements you made are even close to true. the first two are what i would consider "worst case scenario" statements.
also, "stem" has been out for a few years. it is now "steam".
what time does the football game start?
argh! said:
I'm a big believer in the A, but the fact is stem vs steam is nothing more than academic debate. Though not all students will excel at STEM, we have the potential to engage and empower more students in those fields by including the arts. By doing so, students don't need to choose between being an artist or a scientist—they get to be both and could become stronger job candidates in the future because of it. In Montana its still a choice between the 2.We will come around as the pendelum does slow down nefore it gets restarted.
Business is a great example. AT MSU their students do all the "calculations" by hand (and without a cheater card with the formulas. At U of M its all done on the TI and students even are supplied with the programs (or at least were 5 years ago when need of health insurance forced me into an MBA program in late 50's) So while MSU students understand the mechanics, UM students learn the value, use, and application of the mechanics. Might be a reason why one business school is rated so much better than the other
It is also an example of why the two Universities are different and comparrisons are of little value. MSU developed its Business program at a time when business was HOT in response to UMs success at that time. Also a go reason why UM shold stay out of the engineering business. The differences between the two Universities should be embraced and understood not the source of all this trash talking.
Yes I suggested "worse case", but that is pretty much where we are at. Bu then i went to Gonzaga so have a way different perspective than either STEM or STEAM.............. Besides I'm old and have earned my right to being cynical about all things new (including FB coaches)
https://missoulian.com/news/local/um-sees-enrollment-slide-percent/article_93a1bd25-cca0-5906-b18f-aae294fbfe51.html#tracking-source=home-top-story
UM sees enrollment slide 7.6 percent
PATRICK REILLY [email protected]
Sep 21, 2018 Updated 5 min ago
The University of Montana saw a 7.6 percent drop in enrollment from last fall to this fall, according to its latest census enrollment report released Friday.
UM has seen a 28.5 percent drop in enrollment over the past seven years, and had anticipated a 5 percent drop this fall. But the university’s most recent census shows a steeper drop, from 11,865 students in Fall 2017 to 10,962 this fall. That count includes the university’s Missoula and Bitterroot colleges and its central mountain campus.
Paula Short, director of communications for the university’s Office of the President, attributed part of the drop to how UM counts students in its dual-enrollment program, which allows Montana high school students to take UM classes for college credit. Short said Friday that the number of students counted in this program dropped from 280 last fall to 64 now.
She stressed that “any numbers before we do the original census are just estimates,” and that the number could fluctuate moving forward.
Within UM’s mountain Campus, the number of four-year undergraduates dropped by 8.5 percent, while law and other graduate student enrollment ticked up by 3.7 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively. Missoula College enrollment dropped by 21 percent, from 1,773 to 1,397 students.
International student enrollment swelled, from 628 last year to 717 now.
UM did not immediately respond to a request for comment on how, if at all, these latest numbers will affect budgeting.
UM sees enrollment slide 7.6 percent
PATRICK REILLY [email protected]
Sep 21, 2018 Updated 5 min ago
The University of Montana saw a 7.6 percent drop in enrollment from last fall to this fall, according to its latest census enrollment report released Friday.
UM has seen a 28.5 percent drop in enrollment over the past seven years, and had anticipated a 5 percent drop this fall. But the university’s most recent census shows a steeper drop, from 11,865 students in Fall 2017 to 10,962 this fall. That count includes the university’s Missoula and Bitterroot colleges and its central mountain campus.
Paula Short, director of communications for the university’s Office of the President, attributed part of the drop to how UM counts students in its dual-enrollment program, which allows Montana high school students to take UM classes for college credit. Short said Friday that the number of students counted in this program dropped from 280 last fall to 64 now.
She stressed that “any numbers before we do the original census are just estimates,” and that the number could fluctuate moving forward.
Within UM’s mountain Campus, the number of four-year undergraduates dropped by 8.5 percent, while law and other graduate student enrollment ticked up by 3.7 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively. Missoula College enrollment dropped by 21 percent, from 1,773 to 1,397 students.
International student enrollment swelled, from 628 last year to 717 now.
UM did not immediately respond to a request for comment on how, if at all, these latest numbers will affect budgeting.
LivingstonNative
Well-known member
AllWeatherFan said:
How about Boone’s Farm?
I think the problem of UM vs. MSU arises from the fact that higher ed. money in MT is spread too thin. There are 6 four-year schools in this state. That's a 4-year school for every 167,000 citizens in a state w/ 1 million. Wyoming, w/ 580,000 citizens, has one 4-year school, UW. 2-year community colleges in various state areas, act to serve as feeders to UW, while fulfilling local needs for workers, etc.
I know it's a radical proposal that will never fly in the local politics of this state, but it's well past time that we don't need a higher ed. system any longer that was designed in horse-and-buggy times. Ideally, like Wyoming, we should have only one four-year school, but that dream of Paris Gibson's is long gone.
So, I propose that MT has 2 four-yr. schools: Missoula & Bozeman. The rest should become 2-year community colleges as Wyoming did. Think of it: We have four of the remaining four-year schools that have unnecessary upper-division faculty and administration with that cost. MT Tech & MSU-Billings should have only upper-division programs awarding degrees. UM, MSU, and the community colleges could have lower-division programs as feeders to these two schools.
But, like I say, local politics will control the legislature to keep the status quo. So, Montanans spend mightily for a disparate mess of higher ed. institutions, which the MT University System is. It's nice to know Montanans have that kind of money to support an expensive system of higher ed. And, I'm not saying this to boost UM's enrollment, altho I will say that there is a plethora of duplicative programs, such as business and education, that should be consolidated in Missoula & Bozeman.
I know it's a radical proposal that will never fly in the local politics of this state, but it's well past time that we don't need a higher ed. system any longer that was designed in horse-and-buggy times. Ideally, like Wyoming, we should have only one four-year school, but that dream of Paris Gibson's is long gone.
So, I propose that MT has 2 four-yr. schools: Missoula & Bozeman. The rest should become 2-year community colleges as Wyoming did. Think of it: We have four of the remaining four-year schools that have unnecessary upper-division faculty and administration with that cost. MT Tech & MSU-Billings should have only upper-division programs awarding degrees. UM, MSU, and the community colleges could have lower-division programs as feeders to these two schools.
But, like I say, local politics will control the legislature to keep the status quo. So, Montanans spend mightily for a disparate mess of higher ed. institutions, which the MT University System is. It's nice to know Montanans have that kind of money to support an expensive system of higher ed. And, I'm not saying this to boost UM's enrollment, altho I will say that there is a plethora of duplicative programs, such as business and education, that should be consolidated in Missoula & Bozeman.
KoolMoeDee
Well-known member
Kadeezy said:
You left out regional vs. national rankings. Congratulations on being comparable to MSU Billings.
We are the Incredible Shrinking University....latest numbers say the projected 5% enrollment decline will be more like 7.6% putting the tally at under 11,000 for the first time in 25 years. The continued drop in $$$ from tuition, books, board, rooming etc. will surely result in more faculty, staff and program cuts. Those who blame the losses on external factors are deluding themselves. Sadly, UM continues to be in free fall while Fall enrollment at MSU may top 17,000. Meanwhile, UM officials provide faint solace with improved retention numbers - smearing a little lipstick on an undernourished pig.
My estate planning has long included creating a modest endowed scholarship for a deserving UM student, but I'm beginning to wonder if that MT- raised kid might be better served in Bozeman. Dammit - never thought an idea like that would ever seep into my head...but can't believe I'm the only alum wondering where his/her education dollars would be better invested! God Bless Prexy Bodnar, but it's hard to see even a glimpse of light at the end of this dreary tunnel.
My estate planning has long included creating a modest endowed scholarship for a deserving UM student, but I'm beginning to wonder if that MT- raised kid might be better served in Bozeman. Dammit - never thought an idea like that would ever seep into my head...but can't believe I'm the only alum wondering where his/her education dollars would be better invested! God Bless Prexy Bodnar, but it's hard to see even a glimpse of light at the end of this dreary tunnel.
Blgs Griz Fan
Well-known member
bigsky33 said:
A local family sent their daughter to MSU for Business and Finance. She graduated with honors from a local high school.
Her sophomore year, she was at a local Bozeman establishment with a friend and ended up dead from a drug overdose for what appeared to be a legal recreational drug.
Would the same thing have happened at The University? I don't know but it sure taints my opinion of MSU and Bozo.
