Montana, Montana State- PAC 12 Conference

[Spanky2]

We know you like the Frontier Conference.

spanky, are any of your posts factual?

I only go by the image you project….dumpy little man that hates the world.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

spanky, are any of your posts factual?

I only go by the image you project….dumpy little man that hates the world.

You also aren't very perceptive.

 

[Spanky2]

Oldrunner: You're spot on about TV and TV "markets." Whether through the TV set or via streaming on your digital devices, the appetite for entertainment in this country is voracious, to the point they've had to make up entertainment in the form of fake "reality" shows. Little wonder then that college sports has found such a huge market on TV because there's nothing fake about two teams facing off against each other against the backdrop of a "gameday" crowd. College sports is fun, exciting, AUTHENTIC reality.

But I would argue that the national appetite for TV sports has transcended local markets. Here are three examples of schools that were once at our level but whose brands now are totally out of proportion with their local markets--Boise State, Appalachian State and North Dakota State. These teams have become national brands--Boise State by producing one of the most exciting games in the history of college football against Oklahoma in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl; Appalachian State by upsetting Michigan and making the cover of the athletic version of the " The Cover of Rolling Stone," Sports Illustrated; and North Dakota State by absolutely dominating FCS football for so long. Put any of those teams up against a worthy opponent and they're going to garner national ratings, well beyond Boise, Boone or Fargo.

Point is, those teams put themselves in a position to establish their brands while Montana--a school that at one time had a football program that was at least the equal and probably better than those three teams--has not. They've progressed; we've regressed. We're now a middle-of-the-pack program in both football and men's basketball in a second-rate conference, and playing Ferris State, Utah Tech and Butler ain't gonna put us in a position to improve our brand.

Once Oregon, Washington and the Arizona schools leave--and they will because they are national TV brands--the PAC-12 is dead. That leaves the Bay Area schools, Cal and Stanford, together with Oregon State and Washington State, plus the Mountain West and Big Sky schools, to assemble a new conference. I hope both Montana schools and Weber State are in the mix to move up when the re-alignment takes place.

Point taken

However, you don't have to go far to find examples of how a move up can work out poorly for a small market program. Just look at what has happened to UI and NMSU after the implosion of the WAC. They both got in when the getting was good, but the WAC was so marginal that when they lost a couple of strong members, everything fell appart. Those two programs were left with no good options to maintain that status. Turns out that nobody, including media, wanted anything to do with Moscow or Las Cruses. It's not all about market, but a combination of travel, market and prestige. UM and MSU are the biggest deals in Montana. Outside of Montana, not so much. Trying to compare what was going on 60+ years ago to todays environment is foolish at best.

Not much was going on in Montana 60 years ago. Today, we are a growing market that has been discovered and even a bit of mystic about our state. I believe our ambassadors that might call on the PAC 12 or Mountain West would be well greeted.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

The Griz have a "brand" that is marketable beyond the borders of our state. Geez, how many times in the last two years have the media mistakenly referred to the cants as the Griz? That mistake never goes the other way. And with everyone having a "TV" in their pocket or purse we can reach everyone, anytime if the brand is promoted. That over 300,000,000 phones in the US alone as of 2022. If we just had an admin which would take on that project...we could be the next Notre Dame.

Go Griz! Go Irish!

 

[citygriz]

Oldrunner: You're spot on about TV and TV "markets." Whether through the TV set or via streaming on your digital devices, the appetite for entertainment in this country is voracious, to the point they've had to make up entertainment in the form of fake "reality" shows. Little wonder then that college sports has found such a huge market on TV because there's nothing fake about two teams facing off against each other against the backdrop of a "gameday" crowd. College sports is fun, exciting, AUTHENTIC reality.

But I would argue that the national appetite for TV sports has transcended local markets. Here are three examples of schools that were once at our level but whose brands now are totally out of proportion with their local markets--Boise State, Appalachian State and North Dakota State. These teams have become national brands--Boise State by producing one of the most exciting games in the history of college football against Oklahoma in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl; Appalachian State by upsetting Michigan and making the cover of the athletic version of the " The Cover of Rolling Stone," Sports Illustrated; and North Dakota State by absolutely dominating FCS football for so long. Put any of those teams up against a worthy opponent and they're going to garner national ratings, well beyond Boise, Boone or Fargo.

Point is, those teams put themselves in a position to establish their brands while Montana--a school that at one time had a football program that was at least the equal and probably better than those three teams--has not. They've progressed; we've regressed. We're now a middle-of-the-pack program in both football and men's basketball in a second-rate conference, and playing Ferris State, Utah Tech and Butler ain't gonna put us in a position to improve our brand.

Once Oregon, Washington and the Arizona schools leave--and they will because they are national TV brands--the PAC-12 is dead. That leaves the Bay Area schools, Cal and Stanford, together with Oregon State and Washington State, plus the Mountain West and Big Sky schools, to assemble a new conference. I hope both Montana schools and Weber State are in the mix to move up when the re-alignment takes place.

Point taken

However, you don't have to go far to find examples of how a move up can work out poorly for a small market program. Just look at what has happened to UI and NMSU after the implosion of the WAC. They both got in when the getting was good, but the WAC was so marginal that when they lost a couple of strong members, everything fell appart. Those two programs were left with no good options to maintain that status. Turns out that nobody, including media, wanted anything to do with Moscow or Las Cruses. It's not all about market, but a combination of travel, market and prestige. UM and MSU are the biggest deals in Montana. Outside of Montana, not so much. Trying to compare what was going on 60+ years ago to todays environment is foolish at best.

I'm not talking about 60 years ago, I'm talking about 20, coming off two national championships, two wins at Oregon State in the 90's plus a game at Oregon that a young Dave Dickinson almost pulled out, and an innovative pass-happy offense that one of our linemen described as "up and down the field."

I don't have access to all the inside dope but it is my contention that had we made it into the Mountain West we would be in a much better position than we are now; further, that if we'd wanted it badly enough, and lobbied hard enough, we would be in the MWC now. But one HUGE voice against it was right here on eGriz: We're too small a market. We don't have the money. Montana kids couldn't compete in Division One. The Board of Regents wouldn't permit it. Where other schools were eager to move up, this fan base clearly was not--and don't think the administration wasn't listening. So we did what any power in any country or company or conference does: We got smug. We're now like Ford or General Motors trying to catch up to EV's.

But since you're a Weber State fan, maybe you can appreciate that a move up would have greatly benefitted our basketball programs, both men's and women's, since at the time both the Lady Griz and the men's programs were already upper-division quality, and would have benefitted greatly from being in a conference with more than a single bid to the Big Dance. You should appreciate that because if there is any school in the Big Sky that has a national brand now I would say it's Weber State in basketball, thanks to 22 Big Sky championships, that first-round upset of North Carolina several years ago that my Carolina bud still hasn't got over, and the continuing attention the program draws thanks to Damien Lillard.

Anyway, let me just say this: If the chance to move up comes around again, I hope we grab it. The Montana athletic program needs a jolt--beyond the same 'ole schools, the same ole small markets, and save for the Purple Palace, the same tired old facilities.

 

[AZGrizFan]

The Griz have a "brand" that is marketable beyond the borders of our state. Geez, how many times in the last two years have the media mistakenly referred to the cants as the Griz? That mistake never goes the other way. And with everyone having a "TV" in their pocket or purse we can reach everyone, anytime if the brand is promoted. That over 300,000,000 phones in the US alone as of 2022. If we just had an admin which would take on that project...we could be the next Notre Dame.

Go Griz! Go Irish!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Yeah. That’s why we can’t muster up an invite to the MWC. Let alone the PAC-12/10/8/6 or whatever is left there…

 

[Spanky2]

This is why nobody takes spanky seriously.

Helena, I bet you bowl every Wednesday night, play horseshoes on Sunday afternoons. Probably wear white old fashioned tee shirts. Cigar smoker.Retired postal worker.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

This is why nobody takes spanky seriously.

Helena, I bet you bowl every Wednesday night, play horseshoes on Sunday afternoons. Probably wear white old fashioned tee shirts. Cigar smoker.Retired postal worker.

Your wife finally spilled the beans huh?

 

[3-7-77]

Athalon just projected that THIS WEEK, UDub, UO, Clemson, and Florida State will announce the are going Big Ten.

 

[AZGrizFan]

This is why nobody takes spanky seriously.

Helena, I bet you bowl every Wednesday night, play horseshoes on Sunday afternoons. Probably wear white old fashioned tee shirts. Cigar smoker.Retired postal worker.

You say all those things like they’re bad things…

 

[kemajic]

Athalon just projected that THIS WEEK, UDub, UO, Clemson, and Florida State will announce the are going Big Ten.

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/big-ten-expansion-rumors-clemson-florida-state-oregon-washington

 

[mthoopsfan]

Let's go to the Big 10. It seems everyone else is.

 

[BrownBear9501]

If the PAC loses more schools it will have to backfill with the upper echelon of MWC teams. This would likely create an opportunity for some FCS teams to then fill that void left in the MWC. Hopefully we (Griz) are ready to seize that opportunity if/when it happens.

 

[grizindabox]

If the PAC loses more schools it will have to backfill with the upper echelon of MWC teams. This would likely create an opportunity for some FCS teams to then fill that void left in the MWC. Hopefully we (Griz) are ready to seize that opportunity if/when it happens.

My guess right now is that UW and UO will move to the Big10 and then Utah, Zona, and ASU jump at the Big 12 as fast as they can. Stanford can probably play it like ND for a short while and OSU, WSU, and Cal will merge in with the MWC teams. There will be no where for Montana.

 

[bgbigdog]

If the PAC loses more schools it will have to backfill with the upper echelon of MWC teams. This would likely create an opportunity for some FCS teams to then fill that void left in the MWC. Hopefully we (Griz) are ready to seize that opportunity if/when it happens.

My guess right now is that UW and UO will move to the Big10 and then Utah, Zona, and ASU jump at the Big 12 as fast as they can. Stanford can probably play it like ND for a short while and OSU, WSU, and Cal will merge in with the MWC teams. There will be no where for Montana.

So you're saying there's a chance?

 

[BrownBear9501]

If the PAC loses more schools it will have to backfill with the upper echelon of MWC teams. This would likely create an opportunity for some FCS teams to then fill that void left in the MWC. Hopefully we (Griz) are ready to seize that opportunity if/when it happens.

My guess right now is that UW and UO will move to the Big10 and then Utah, Zona, and ASU jump at the Big 12 as fast as they can. Stanford can probably play it like ND for a short while and OSU, WSU, and Cal will merge in with the MWC teams. There will be no where for Montana.

Have seen some reports that if the PAC loses the four corners schools and U Dub and Oregon that they would backfill with SDSU, SMU, CSU, UNLV, Boise, and possibly Air Force. In that case the MWC would be calling Montana IMHO.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

My guess right now is that UW and UO will move to the Big10 and then Utah, Zona, and ASU jump at the Big 12 as fast as they can. Stanford can probably play it like ND for a short while and OSU, WSU, and Cal will merge in with the MWC teams. There will be no where for Montana.

Have seen some reports that if the PAC loses the four corners schools and U Dub and Oregon that they would backfill with SDSU, SMU, CSU, UNLV, Boise, and possibly Air Force. In that case the MWC would be calling Montana IMHO.

How enticing would the MWC be with the leftovers?

 

[grizindabox]

Have seen some reports that if the PAC loses the four corners schools and U Dub and Oregon that they would backfill with SDSU, SMU, CSU, UNLV, Boise, and possibly Air Force. In that case the MWC would be calling Montana IMHO.

How enticing would the MWC be with the leftovers?

The MWC could be the new old WAC.

 

[BrownBear9501]

How enticing would the MWC be with the leftovers?

The MWC could be the new old WAC.

Definitely a good point…..however I think many would agree that being in a conference with Nevada, Utah State, Wyoming, New Mexico, San Jose State, Hawaii (football only) with out of conference FBS opponents is an upgrade still from the current Big Sky.

 

[3-7-77]

That new conference would have its own built-in practice squad. Yep, about as satisfying as it sounds. :roll:
This reshuffling of the conferences has to work its way down to us plebeians at some point. There WILL be a change acomin'. May not be ideal, but its coming. 'I see a light! It must be the end of the tunnel.....or a train.'