-
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts access private forums and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!
Letter to the editor on dueling PW petitions
- Thread starter NorthEndZoneDan
- Start date
granitegriz
Well-known member
Excellent letter...thanks!!! :thumb:
As I've stated before, I have known both Pat & Carol Williams since prior to Pat's election to Congress. I supported Pat up until the recent quote in the New York Times. I have even defended him on this board on numerous occasions.
I agree with Ms. Inmon that Pat Williams has served both the State of Montana and the University of Montana very well. I will always believe that both Pat and Carol have served this State and its people well.
However words and actions have consequences. To me, it is not what Pat said that bothers me half as much as his lack of remorse for saying it. When given the opportunity to explain and possibly apologize for his remarks, the explanation give was that he had no idea that his comments were going to be used in an article about the upcoming Johnson trial. He showed no remorse whatsoever and his indication that he did not mean to imply that Jordan Johnson was a thug was simply too little too late. Hell, there is not even a hint that he was misquoted or taken out of context!
To me it is this unapologetic lack of remorse that disqualifies him from sitting on the BOR. I hope that he is not confirmed, but if he is I would certainly hope that he addresses his reprehensible comments in a more appropriate way than he has to date.
I agree with Ms. Inmon that Pat Williams has served both the State of Montana and the University of Montana very well. I will always believe that both Pat and Carol have served this State and its people well.
However words and actions have consequences. To me, it is not what Pat said that bothers me half as much as his lack of remorse for saying it. When given the opportunity to explain and possibly apologize for his remarks, the explanation give was that he had no idea that his comments were going to be used in an article about the upcoming Johnson trial. He showed no remorse whatsoever and his indication that he did not mean to imply that Jordan Johnson was a thug was simply too little too late. Hell, there is not even a hint that he was misquoted or taken out of context!
To me it is this unapologetic lack of remorse that disqualifies him from sitting on the BOR. I hope that he is not confirmed, but if he is I would certainly hope that he addresses his reprehensible comments in a more appropriate way than he has to date.
Don't care who you know or who you have known in the past. Pat Williams did nothing in congress, if I am wrong, please tell me what legislation he originated or sponsered that made a difference to anyone in Montana. Mrs. Pat Williams is the catalyst behind this whole shitstorm that has hit the university. Of course it is easy to condemn what he said in the NYT, but then to justify his whole career of living off the tit of the public offends me.Gaeilge1 said:
I signed the petition mostly because I think Pat Williams is a POS. but its hard to argue with him when a bunch of ex Griz beat a store clerk nearly to death. If Marc Racicot would have said it I probably wouldnt have signed it. My point is politics are in play in both petitions.
Grisly Fan
Well-known member
Answer: The amount of intelligence missing from some people?stubbins said:
I asked this question before, if a person commits a crime long after being a Griz athlete then that serves as proof that the "Griz recruit thugs". Have I got that right? Which in turn then suggests that if a person ever does anything bad then they were bad from the start and we should somehow be able to know that in advance. I guess they are not believers in free will or that people can actually change (for the worse sometimes).
BWahlberg said:
BW, how am I supposed to argue if you use facts
. It seems to me there have been a lot of other issues. Home invasion, assaults, pot growing etc. These people are thugs and I agree with PW that Mt should do their best not to recruit them. PW audience was wrong but his idea is right. I know you can’t predict how a recruit may turn out, but is there any sort of background check going on now? I am not sure how the recruit process works maybe they are doing due diligence in recruiting. Maybe they could do more.
Kokanee said:BWahlberg said:
BW, how am I supposed to argue if you use facts
Gotcha, and I agree.
I'd put this earlier but if Pat had come out and said, "The UM has had issues with recruiting thugs in the past who have put the UM football program in a bad light with their arrests and thuggery. This issue is being addressed and I realize we're talking about a handful of kids over the years, however even a handful is too many." Then there would have not been this type of reaction. No one is saying there were no issues in the past but the concern here is the blanket labeling of the entire team and the means by which it was done.
Kokanee said:BWahlberg said:
BW, how am I supposed to argue if you use facts
Why would someone working for the university even use the word "thugs"? Why would that someone say UM "recruited thugs"? To me, that shows an agenda, as well as a lack of knowledge of the situation. That comment is getting repeated all over the media. It has also resulted in some female observers at trial referring to players in attendance as thugs, to their faces. "Here come the thugs."
One home invasion, yes. That was in 2007. It's now 2013. Assults (mainly just fights and punches), yes. Pot growing? Who did that, other than a former player from about 2004 who got charged for growing medical marijuana (which was legal under state law)? You really think that some who grows marijuana is a thug? Some who gets in a fight is a thug?
As Brint and others have mentioned, the petition to reject the confirmation of Pat Williams from the BOR is not a political issue (as in Democrats vs Republicans). For me it’s irrelevant how well he performed in congress. The issue is how well has he performed as a regent. The timing of his misstatements to the NYT and ESPN and their content (what he said and just as important what he DID NOT say) are what the petition is about.
To say the university recruits rapists and thugs clearly indicates his belief that the coaches set out willfully to do just that. Presumably this was done because in some way this helps them to win games. I won’t go further with that, as his logic is obviously ridiculous.
IMO just as disgusting as what he said is what he did not say. He had the pulpit and it would have been very easy for him to identify all the efforts the community, university and team have made (or gone through) in order to address all perceived issues. Whether we agree with the actions taken by President Engstrom or not is irrelevant to this point. The point is Pat Williams could have identified the fact that over the last year many changes had already been implemented (key terminations, new policies, student education and much more). In essence, for having one day in the limelight he was willing to throw everyone from RE on down under the bus. Now I ask you … is that what we want from a regent?
To say the university recruits rapists and thugs clearly indicates his belief that the coaches set out willfully to do just that. Presumably this was done because in some way this helps them to win games. I won’t go further with that, as his logic is obviously ridiculous.
IMO just as disgusting as what he said is what he did not say. He had the pulpit and it would have been very easy for him to identify all the efforts the community, university and team have made (or gone through) in order to address all perceived issues. Whether we agree with the actions taken by President Engstrom or not is irrelevant to this point. The point is Pat Williams could have identified the fact that over the last year many changes had already been implemented (key terminations, new policies, student education and much more). In essence, for having one day in the limelight he was willing to throw everyone from RE on down under the bus. Now I ask you … is that what we want from a regent?
PlayerRep said:Kokanee said:BWahlberg said:
BW, how am I supposed to argue if you use facts
Why would someone working for the university even use the word "thugs"? Why would that someone say UM "recruited thugs"? To me, that shows an agenda, as well as a lack of knowledge of the situation. That comment is getting repeated all over the media. It has also resulted in some female observers at trial referring to players in attendance as thugs, to their faces. "Here come the thugs."
One home invasion, yes. That was in 2007. It's now 2013. Assults (mainly just fights and punches), yes. Pot growing? Who did that, other than a former player from about 2004 who got charged for growing medical marijuana (which was legal under state law)? You really think that some who grows marijuana is a thug? Some who gets in a fight is a thug?
Point taken on Pat Williams.
A while back someone posted a list of Griz and ex Griz who had been arrested. Seemed like a lot to me. You can try and lessen the serverity of the offenses all you want, but they have still been arrested and by doing so tarnish the program. Are they all thugs? Of course not.
Kokanee said:PlayerRep said:Kokanee said:BWahlberg said:
BW, how am I supposed to argue if you use facts
Why would someone working for the university even use the word "thugs"? Why would that someone say UM "recruited thugs"? To me, that shows an agenda, as well as a lack of knowledge of the situation. That comment is getting repeated all over the media. It has also resulted in some female observers at trial referring to players in attendance as thugs, to their faces. "Here come the thugs."
One home invasion, yes. That was in 2007. It's now 2013. Assults (mainly just fights and punches), yes. Pot growing? Who did that, other than a former player from about 2004 who got charged for growing medical marijuana (which was legal under state law)? You really think that some who grows marijuana is a thug? Some who gets in a fight is a thug?
Point taken on Pat Williams.
A while back someone posted a list of Griz and ex Griz who had been arrested. Seemed like a lot to me. You can try and lessen the serverity of the offenses all you want, but they have still been arrested and by doing so tarnish the program. Are they all thugs? Of course not.
That list was completely inaccurate. Many of the people listed had done nothing wrong, many had never been arrested, some were listed based on rumor, multiple arrests/charges had been dropped or reduced, many of the issues were dui's or disorderly contacts, and some were former Griz long since departed from the program. The reason that Pat Williams comments are so harmful, is because many people, perhaps yourself included, don't bother to check or understand the facts.
That being said, everyone agrees that there has been too much bad behavior in the past 8 or so years. UM and all of its coaches have gone out of their way to recruit character and avoid taking anyone who could possibly be or become a thug. A few chances were taken, after serious checking, and most of those turned out okay. A few mistakes were made, judged in retrospect.
