Lady Griz vs. SUU

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

One thing that has stuck out to me watching Lady grizzly games this year is they have looked a step or two slow against their competition. Thoughts?

I have thought this too from watching them - and I would add a tick or two slow on hitting the person who flashes open in the offense. I can't count how many times somebody would pop open, only to get the ball right as they were getting covered back up.

 

[MissoulaCanucksFan]

Who's the tall former asst coach, who coached for a long time and played for the LG? She surely would have some views. I assume she still follows the program.

You must be speaking of Trish Duce. She left the program around the same time Selvig retired.

 

[Kabooom]

For years you could see it coming.....the competition catching up to the Ladies...Robin was so successful for so many years with His system, but the margin of victory and talent compared to the rest of the Big Sky was narrowing...Shan bought in to what she knew. The table has now flipped and the Lady Griz, regardless of whether they get 10 Gatorade players in a row is begging for a change. I'd like to see Shan continue that stretch of success, but she will need to change the standard recruiting map and will need to be given the resources to canvas a much larger geographical area for this to happen.

 

[moneyball]

Disappointed for how poorly the Lady Griz finished. However I'm really disappointed with the damn "Pitchfork & Torches" mentality several of you are showing.

Several of us are equally disappointed with the “things will be ok, she just needs more time” argument. There are severe problems that need rectified and I don’t believe extending another year is going to solve those issues. You have a right to your opinion and I actually do understand why SS has strong support from many. I am just not one of them.

I want Haslam to do a thorough examination of the problems to make sure the coach isn’t the cause of many of those problems, and to make sure that the players including key ones want to remain in the program under this coach. Why keep a coach who is the cause of too many problems. I don’t knew the facts. Haslam does or will know them. From what I have heard, I believe Haslam is and will be on top this one. I have confidence in him on this. Whatever he decides is fine with me.

Your faith in Haslam is admirable but Naive. He has known for three years what is going on at the deepest level of the Lady Griz. Without going into the particulars I will say this, Exit interviews have been done with every player and coaching staff member already for the last two seasons as well as an official climate survey mandated by the University due to the extreme nature of some of the complaints against Shannon. Haslam does not appear to have the best interest for the girls well being. The Administration seems to be just like most college programs and put politics and economics ahead of the principals of right or wrong. At some point don't be surprised if Haslam looses his job because of his support of Shannon. The unfortunate thing is the price these young women will pay in the process. Time will tell.

 

[PlayerRep]

Disappointed for how poorly the Lady Griz finished. However I'm really disappointed with the damn "Pitchfork & Torches" mentality several of you are showing.

Several of us are equally disappointed with the “things will be ok, she just needs more time” argument. There are severe problems that need rectified and I don’t believe extending another year is going to solve those issues. You have a right to your opinion and I actually do understand why SS has strong support from many. I am just not one of them.

I want Haslam to do a thorough examination of the problems to make sure the coach isn’t the cause of many of those problems, and to make sure that the players including key ones want to remain in the program under this coach. Why keep a coach who is the cause of too many problems. I don’t knew the facts. Haslam does or will know them. From what I have heard, I believe Haslam is and will be on top this one. I have confidence in him on this. Whatever he decides is fine with me.

Your faith in Haslam is admirable but Naive. He has known for three years what is going on at the deepest level of the Lady Griz. Without going into the particulars I will say this, Exit interviews have been done with every player and coaching staff member already for the last two seasons as well as an official climate survey mandated by the University due to the extreme nature of some of the complaints against Shannon. Haslam does not appear to have the best interest for the girls well being. The Administration seems to be just like most college programs and put politics and economics ahead of the principals of right or wrong. At some point don't be surprised if Haslam looses his job because of his support of Shannon. The unfortunate thing is the price these young women will pay in the process. Time will tell.

Don't think you have the right facts on Haslam, his "support" for the coach, etc. from what I have heard. My "faith" in Haslam is not fatih; it is based on what I have heard. You appear to be too close to this situation not to be biased (but that's okay), and I can assure you I am not naive.

 

[LadyGrizFan]

Several of us are equally disappointed with the “things will be ok, she just needs more time” argument. There are severe problems that need rectified and I don’t believe extending another year is going to solve those issues. You have a right to your opinion and I actually do understand why SS has strong support from many. I am just not one of them.

I want Haslam to do a thorough examination of the problems to make sure the coach isn’t the cause of many of those problems, and to make sure that the players including key ones want to remain in the program under this coach. Why keep a coach who is the cause of too many problems. I don’t knew the facts. Haslam does or will know them. From what I have heard, I believe Haslam is and will be on top this one. I have confidence in him on this. Whatever he decides is fine with me.

Your faith in Haslam is admirable but Naive. He has known for three years what is going on at the deepest level of the Lady Griz. Without going into the particulars I will say this, Exit interviews have been done with every player and coaching staff member already for the last two seasons as well as an official climate survey mandated by the University due to the extreme nature of some of the complaints against Shannon. Haslam does not appear to have the best interest for the girls well being. The Administration seems to be just like most college programs and put politics and economics ahead of the principals of right or wrong. At some point don't be surprised if Haslam looses his job because of his support of Shannon. The unfortunate thing is the price these young women will pay in the process. Time will tell.

Don't think you have the right facts on Haslam, his "support" for the coach, etc. from what I have heard. My "faith" in Haslam is not fatih; it is based on what I have heard. You appear to be too close to this situation not to be biased (but that's okay), and I can assure you I am not naive.

All points regarding game statistics aside there needs to be a closer examination of the player's attitudes about the program. Under SS 8 girls have quit, all of them which were recruited and signed under Robin. Last year, all players were brought into KH's office and asked their feelings about Shannon after an overwhelming amount of complaints from players and parents about the players well beings under SS's coaching. Many of the players are unhappy and a few key players are talking about transferring or not playing entirely if they have to play for SS for another season. If this is true the LG will take a big hit in talent next season and the coaching staff will have to scramble to fill their spots. This is college sports, coaches are not going to be your best friend and will be hard on players, pushing them to their limits, breaking them down and building them back up. If this were the case on this team things would look a lot different. This is not a collegiate football team with 80+ kids on the roster, the lady griz can not be successful if they do not trust the system and want to play under it.

 

[MissoulaCanucksFan]

Under SS 8 girls have quit, all of them which were recruited and signed under Robin.

Actually, 7 of the 8 girls that left the LG program were recruited and signed under Robin Selvig.

The only one that was brought aboard under Shannon Schweyen that eventually left the program was Caitlin Lonergan, who joined the team midway through the 2016-17 season after she was dismissed from MSU's volleyball program.

 

[TrueGriz]

Under SS 8 girls have quit, all of them which were recruited and signed under Robin.

Actually, 7 of the 8 girls that left the LG program were recruited and signed under Robin Selvig.

The only one that was brought aboard under Shannon Schweyen that eventually left the program was Caitlin Lonergan, who joined the team midway through the 2016-17 season after she was dismissed from MSU's volleyball program.

One of those 8 had a back problem that developed when she was young and could not continue on due to her back. I would not include her as quitting because of the coach.

 

[TrueGriz]

Under SS 8 girls have quit, all of them which were recruited and signed under Robin.

Actually, 7 of the 8 girls that left the LG program were recruited and signed under Robin Selvig.

The only one that was brought aboard under Shannon Schweyen that eventually left the program was Caitlin Lonergan, who joined the team midway through the 2016-17 season after she was dismissed from MSU's volleyball program.

One of those 8 had a back problem that developed when she was young and could not continue on due to her back. I would not include her as quitting because of the coach.

Also, one of the players was a walk-on so not really a recruit. Maybe she quit because of Shannon, or maybe she couldn't afford to continue school and play for Lady Griz without a scholarship.

 

[Mousegriz]

I want Haslam to do a thorough examination of the problems to make sure the coach isn’t the cause of many of those problems, and to make sure that the players including key ones want to remain in the program under this coach. Why keep a coach who is the cause of too many problems. I don’t knew the facts. Haslam does or will know them. From what I have heard, I believe Haslam is and will be on top this one. I have confidence in him on this. Whatever he decides is fine with me.

Your faith in Haslam is admirable but Naive. He has known for three years what is going on at the deepest level of the Lady Griz. Without going into the particulars I will say this, Exit interviews have been done with every player and coaching staff member already for the last two seasons as well as an official climate survey mandated by the University due to the extreme nature of some of the complaints against Shannon. Haslam does not appear to have the best interest for the girls well being. The Administration seems to be just like most college programs and put politics and economics ahead of the principals of right or wrong. At some point don't be surprised if Haslam looses his job because of his support of Shannon. The unfortunate thing is the price these young women will pay in the process. Time will tell.

Don't think you have the right facts on Haslam, his "support" for the coach, etc. from what I have heard. My "faith" in Haslam is not fatih; it is based on what I have heard. You appear to be too close to this situation not to be biased (but that's okay), and I can assure you I am not naive.

All points regarding game statistics aside there needs to be a closer examination of the player's attitudes about the program. Under SS 8 girls have quit, all of them which were recruited and signed under Robin. Last year, all players were brought into KH's office and asked their feelings about Shannon after an overwhelming amount of complaints from players and parents about the players well beings under SS's coaching. Many of the players are unhappy and a few key players are talking about transferring or not playing entirely if they have to play for SS for another season. If this is true the LG will take a big hit in talent next season and the coaching staff will have to scramble to fill their spots. This is college sports, coaches are not going to be your best friend and will be hard on players, pushing them to their limits, breaking them down and building them back up. If this were the case on this team things would look a lot different. This is not a collegiate football team with 80+ kids on the roster, the lady griz can not be successful if they do not trust the system and want to play under it.

No idea what the many unspoken "issues" with players and parents (PARENTS!!??) are. Based on apparent lack of athleticism, injury avoidance, and overall basketball skill level/ in season improvement, it would seem that practices can't be too strenuous, grueling or physically demanding.

Are the players' well beings' really a concern? Does Shannon push them to their limits to get in their best shape and grind on them to improve their lay in shooting, free throw shooting and 3 point shooting as the season progresses? If so......it doesn't seem to be working.

I was more impressed with Hellgate's frosh dominated HS team than the Lady Griz as the season progressed.

 

[Washgrizfan1]

My views run directly opposite to two of my favorite board members, grizzlyjournal and Fat Bruno. But I have to speak my truth.

A Division I Women's basketball coach has 15 scholarships, two more than the men. These are not for "Daddy's LIttle Girls Playing Pee Wee basketball." These are for mature young women who likely at an early age demonstrated considerable athletic ability. Who then attended summer camp after summer camp, before playing AAU ball, and then demonstrated enough ability as seniors in high school to win a full-ride scholarship to what had been one of the premier programs in all of Division I Women's basketball, the Montana Lady Griz. I would expect that even at the deep end of the bench, these young athletes would have demonstrated the core aptitudes and fundamental basketball skills to perform at a competent level, especially in a loser-go-home playoff game against a team seeded three spots beneath us.

But that's not what we saw yesterday. What we saw yesterday was a team that:
--Could not shoot. 20% from deep (including one last second heave that was so errant it banked it), and slightly better than 50% from the foul line. Jordan one for ten? I've seen spectators come out of the stands for halftime contests and shoot better than that. And how many uncontested layups did we miss? I counted five. There may may have been more.
--Could not rebound. How many offensive rebounds did they get, 28? Again, these are fundamental skills you should have learned if you earned a Division One scholarship: The ability to block out. Worse, we were out-hustled and out-quicked on rebound after rebound.
--Could not get a stop when we needed it. Just when it looked like we were on a run, we-could-not-get a-stop. Our defense was porous, to say the least. Driving lanes were open time and again for Southern Utah. And while I don't have a shot chart, I'm sure it would show most of their shots came from within 10 feet.
--Could not drive to the basket. Time and again, Krista Redpath, the ex-Griz doing color commentary, said Montana needed drive more, not only to score but to open things up for Jace down low. Instead, my dominant memory of our offense is of a player holding the ball over her head with two hands out near the three point line--a position from which you cannot make a chest pass or a bounce pass, let alone be in a position to drive to the basket.

I then made the mistake of flipping over to catch a bit of the UConn game. My God, the difference in skill level between us and a UConn or a Notre Dame is the distance of a space probe to Mars. Those teams would beat us by 50 points and probably more if their lives depended on it. Long gone are the days when a Montana could face a USC with Lisa Leslie or a Texas Tech with Sheryl Swoopes and not only be in the game, but have a chance to win it. That's how far this program has fallen.

But for all the people here who want to oust Shannon, I say, she deserves one more year. Any coach does--a full four year cycle. Not only do we get some key players back from injury, but we welcome perhaps the second-most heralded recruit in the history of Lady Griz basketball, Jamie Pickens.

But therein lies a great irony. Jamie could have played anywhere in the country, but she chose to stick with us, because she had Lady Griz in her blood. Many Montana girls do, who grew up during the glory days of the program, when Montana was the dominant program in the state, the role model for young girls throughout the state.

But after three years of Shannon's leadership, can we say the same today? Is this the program young girls aspire to?

Not on the evidence we all saw yesterday. What we saw yesterday was absolutely lacerating.

You can't be serious. Fat Bruno is one of your favorite posters?

 

[Walkon79]

For years you could see it coming.....the competition catching up to the Ladies...Robin was so successful for so many years with His system, but the margin of victory and talent compared to the rest of the Big Sky was narrowing...Shan bought in to what she knew. The table has now flipped and the Lady Griz, regardless of whether they get 10 Gatorade players in a row is begging for a change. I'd like to see Shan continue that stretch of success, but she will need to change the standard recruiting map and will need to be given the resources to canvas a much larger geographical area for this to happen.

Interesting take and I'm feeling the same, not only about the Lady Griz. There are now a limited number of Montana high school girls players that can contribute and play at the Division 1 level. I truly believe the season change from fall to winter in high school has damaged our talent pool of girls in Montana.

 

[Fat Bruno]

There are degrees of adversity, simpleton ... degrees. Btw, what did you get yours in ... A BS, perhaps, in Perpetual Crying?

I am now giving you your last warning. Either cut crap, especially the insults to other posters, or I'm going to ask Chris to ban you.

Ask away, hollow man ... I understand your pain after having red assed and exposed you so many times. But, unlike you, I don't live here and a banding would be as naught to me.

From a PM I received a bit ago:

"PR, you have done everything humanly possible to rationally contradict everything Bruno has stated, topic after topic. You have won the arguments time and time again. You will not convince him otherwise. I think he knows he is FOS but just wants to argue and call you and others names. That is revealing. He acts like a spoiled little kid with some education, on meth."

I was away when the ear splitting laughter hit the ozone over this one. PR, you wrote yourself a real comforting, little letter there. I hope it helps you find peace and acts as a balm on your poor, tattered, red ass. Good on you. Heal and be well.

 

[Fat Bruno]

Unbelievable whining ... nothing short of sick and vicious. We start out with half a team, then lose two more of our best!! Great game by Shannon and the girls considering all that ... one that should be bringing out support and amazement at how well they did in this game under the worst circumstances possible. The "fans" on this site are truly a pack of disgusting, little dwarves.

Every team has to deal with adversity, bad breaks and kids that get sick. They overcome, prepare a solid scouting report, coach to their strengths and find a way to win. Deal with it. You sound like a sniveling and whiny apologist. You embrace mediocrity all damn day long. That does not mean the rest of us have to. I am done reading your drivel and detached from reality posts.

There are degrees of adversity, simpleton ... degrees. Btw, what did you get yours in ... A BS, perhaps, in Perpetual Crying?

I am now giving you your last warning. Either cut crap, especially the insults to other posters, or I'm going to ask Chris to ban you.

Oh, mah lord ... I must post that I've begun suffering once again from post traumatic flashbacks similar to those I had after that elderly lady swung her purse at me (for absolutely no reason, I might add) one time, years ago.

 

[Copper Griz]

For years you could see it coming.....the competition catching up to the Ladies...Robin was so successful for so many years with His system, but the margin of victory and talent compared to the rest of the Big Sky was narrowing...Shan bought in to what she knew. The table has now flipped and the Lady Griz, regardless of whether they get 10 Gatorade players in a row is begging for a change. I'd like to see Shan continue that stretch of success, but she will need to change the standard recruiting map and will need to be given the resources to canvas a much larger geographical area for this to happen.

Interesting take and I'm feeling the same, not only about the Lady Griz. There are now a limited number of Montana high school girls players that can contribute and play at the Division 1 level. I truly believe the season change from fall to winter in high school has damaged our talent pool of girls in Montana.

You could be correct. Unfortunately I believe technology and redistribution of rural populations (traditional ag and blue collar communities) has hurt as well. The high school association has been worried about this issue for several years. Did not help when they did not require a coach to also be a teacher. Once upon a time “coaching” was a big deal in the high school ranks. Not so much anymore. Fundamentals, game philosophy and technique have deteriorated.

 

[MTGRIZ12]

For years you could see it coming.....the competition catching up to the Ladies...Robin was so successful for so many years with His system, but the margin of victory and talent compared to the rest of the Big Sky was narrowing...Shan bought in to what she knew. The table has now flipped and the Lady Griz, regardless of whether they get 10 Gatorade players in a row is begging for a change. I'd like to see Shan continue that stretch of success, but she will need to change the standard recruiting map and will need to be given the resources to canvas a much larger geographical area for this to happen.

Totally agree, way larger recruiting map needed. Shannon recruits her 2 daughters, their best friend and their AAU teammate (Pickens)….not much work to recruit that. They also ruined things by not recruiting other local talent that was asked to walk on instead. Hoping she has success because the above mentioned players are good athletes but not sure all 4 are D1 players (yet) there is always time but they have work to do!!!

Interesting take and I'm feeling the same, not only about the Lady Griz. There are now a limited number of Montana high school girls players that can contribute and play at the Division 1 level. I truly believe the season change from fall to winter in high school has damaged our talent pool of girls in Montana.

Also agree, between switching seasons and the introduction of travel/club ball in basketball, volleyball, all sports really. These girls play year round and then when the high school season starts they either are too injured to improve or eventually they burn out. There is some very good young talent coming up in Montana, but most of them are freshman and sophomores. Hellgate has a good young team, Sentinel has some good young talent, Big Sky has a couple up and coming players, Helena Capital has twin sisters that are 6'2 and 6'4 or something like that....both sophomores and both very athletic. Talent is there, I think Shannon needs to watch some of these players and if she gets them, develop them. Stop recruiting friends and family.

 

[PlayerRep]

I am now giving you your last warning. Either cut crap, especially the insults to other posters, or I'm going to ask Chris to ban you.

Ask away, hollow man ... I understand your pain after having red assed and exposed you so many times. But, unlike you, I don't live here and a banding would be as naught to me.

From a PM I received a bit ago:

"PR, you have done everything humanly possible to rationally contradict everything Bruno has stated, topic after topic. You have won the arguments time and time again. You will not convince him otherwise. I think he knows he is FOS but just wants to argue and call you and others names. That is revealing. He acts like a spoiled little kid with some education, on meth."

I was away when the ear splitting laughter hit the ozone over this one. PR, you wrote yourself a real comforting, little letter there. I hope it helps you find peace and acts as a balm on your poor, tattered, red ass. Good on you. Heal and be well.

Want to bet me $100 that this was taken from a PM sent to me by another egriz poster. It's easy to verify. Put up or shut up.

 

[GrizUp]

I strongly support this Montana women's team and its coaching staff. I've made what I consider are strong, statistically based cases for this team in at least two other threads & I'll let them speak for my beliefs. One other thing that is really haunting me about the lynch mob on egriz right now: Shannon still stands in the Montana record books as THE outstanding Montana women's player. She also spent years as coach Selvig's head assistant. Isolated, they are not equal to what Shaun Rainey just posted on Twitter. Yes... unreal. Again, I support this Montana women's team, coach Schweyen and her entire staff. Go Montana.

[media]https://twitter.com/ShaunRainey/status/1105290473239908352[/media]

Almost everyone in this forum including Mr. Rainey is missing the most crucial point of the Lady Griz. It is not what has happened with injuries or even their win loss record. Teams deal with that stuff all the time and if that is all they have to deal with, they usually make a turn around. What is wrong with the Lady Griz is what is happening in practice and before they ever get on the court. In the last two years 8 Girls have quit the team: Jaree Mane, Henny Hearn, Rachel Staudacher, Maddie Keast, Sierra Anderson, Nora Klick, Hailey Nicholson, Caitlin Lonergan. Others were and still are considering transferring. The real question is why did they all quit? Why did the Administration and the news media not report the truth of what was was going on? Why did numerous parents file official complaints with the AD and the President of the university? Why was there a climate survey done similar to the one done for the soccer coach when he was fired. Why was it not reported? (By the way all of this is public record so you can check for yourself - i did) We can debate x's and o's all day long but it really does not accomplish much. The climate of the Lady Griz is not healthy and that is the coaches responsibility. That is the problem. In the end you have have to ask why! Why? why? why? And when the answer comes out then you will understand why the girls have a hard time winning. A good player is not always a good coach!

I can't keep reading through this post without correcting you on the number of girls that have left the team. Of the former players you listed:

Jaree Mane - Jaree was a walk-on coming off of a torn ACL her senior year of high school. She chose not to stick it out playing basketball and is now a member of the UM Track Team.

Henny Hearn - Henny battled a low-back injury for the majority of her redshirt freshman year and decided to walk away from basketball following the season.

Rachel Staudacher - Rachel decided to leave the team following her Redshirt Junior year to focus on school. After Shannon reached out, Rachel returned to the team and finished out the season as the lone senior on the team.

Maddie Keast - Maddie is probably the only one on here that I think you could say had an issue with the coaching staff/playing time and chose to leave UM. She tried to transfer to Montana Tech and play basketball there, but it never materialized.

Sierra Anderson - Sierra saw the writing on the wall that she wouldn't be playing much going into her senior year and chose to step away from basketball. She had already finished her Political Science degree and spent the last year working on her MBA at UM.

Nora Klick - Nora came into UM with a history of back issues in high school that worsened early on in the season. Nora ended up getting back surgery, redshirting, and last I read, was looking at having another operation done on her back.

Hailey Nicholson - Hailey's departure had nothing to do with playing time or Shannon, but more to do with being homesick and wanting to be able to move back closer to home and be able to play college basketball with her sister at MSU Northern.

Caitlin Lonergan - Caitlin came in as a walk-on following her dismissal from the MSU Volleyball team for shoplifting. After earning a scholarship, Caitlin decided that she wanted to be done with college athletics altogether and pursue a nursing degree back in Bozeman.

As easy as it is to throw out names of girls that have left the team in the past 3 years, a little bit of context goes a hell of a long way.

 

[i do love the griz]

As far as Keast goes I’ll also mention that she was battling years of pretty serious injuries including one that left her having to essentially relearn to walk. Not to say gripes couldn’t also play a role in any of these girls, but there’s definitely a lot going on besides “just” leaving.

 

[PlayerRep]

Ask away, hollow man ... I understand your pain after having red assed and exposed you so many times. But, unlike you, I don't live here and a banding would be as naught to me.

From a PM I received a bit ago:

"PR, you have done everything humanly possible to rationally contradict everything Bruno has stated, topic after topic. You have won the arguments time and time again. You will not convince him otherwise. I think he knows he is FOS but just wants to argue and call you and others names. That is revealing. He acts like a spoiled little kid with some education, on meth."

I was away when the ear splitting laughter hit the ozone over this one. PR, you wrote yourself a real comforting, little letter there. I hope it helps you find peace and acts as a balm on your poor, tattered, red ass. Good on you. Heal and be well.

Want to bet me $100 that this was taken from a PM sent to me by another egriz poster. It's easy to verify. Put up or shut up.

Hey Fats, how about a bet? Are you afraid to back up your big mouth and dishonesty?

Here's part of another PM I got today:

"[We] have stopped commenting on anything that FatBruno posts. He is a POS and a pain in the ass. He thinks he knows everything and knows very little. ... ignore him, and stop commenting to him. All he can do is argue. He is clueless."