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Just sick of it

What I see is a list of football players whose disciplinary issues needed to be settled after a run-in with the law. This list is too long.

I hope this most recent scandal is a wake up call. It sure looks like the administration has stepped in to take much of the player discipline out of the the coaches' hands. I think President Engstrom has acted admirably since this most recent mess started last December.

We can have a dominating football program without players getting arrested this often! Isn't that an attainable goal that our coaches can strive for?
 
will say you guys seem to have more problems with this type of crap then most programs across the country for whatever reason.

Everyone has a few issues from time to time but man every year?
 
I never thought I would agree with PR about much, but I have to kind of agree with him here. Equating a DUI or assaulting a police officer with an ACCUSATION of rape is not even close to fair. It is possible to prove a DUI true or false very quickly. Assault on police officers have witnesses and some facts are known. An accusation of rape I would think in most cases has no witnesses, and if the accuser waits a month to do the accusing, I doubt there is even any evidence. The consequences of this are devastating. If it turns out the accused is falsely accused, the mud has already been slung, the practices and games have already been missed, and the reputation is already tarnished in a lot of peoples minds. If it turns out to be true, the damage caused to the victim lasts a lifetime. I believe the paper has been kind of close to being out of line the way they have reported this, linking the JJ story in with articles about the whole Martz investigation and using his name. And although it doesn't matter really what we say on this message board, I think believing in punishing someone because of an accusation only because of who they are is a little bit scary.

I was reading another thread this morning where the discussion became about holding the players to a higher standard. I believe they are, and I also believe they should be. But just because someone is accused doesn't mean they did it. Take the Trumaine and Canada thing last fall. I don't care how the whole thing ended up being resolved, I think they both deserved more punishment than they got because they were stupid to be in that situation. Loud, middle of the night party after returning from a long road trip, neighbors complaints about noise, etc.. was just plain dumb. Jimmy Wilson even being in the situation with the girl who said he bit her was more than stupid, after the chance he was given. This is the kind of thing that can be prevented and shows bad judgement and no pride in the image of the team and University. I agree with that 100% But an ACCUSATION of rape? No witnesses, probably zero evidence, and we should suspend him from the team and drag his name through the papers? I disagree, anyone can be accused. Let me use an extreme example. One of my favorite Griz players of all time, and without a doubt among the finest human beings I've ever met, Vince Huntzberger. What if he was accused back in the day? Would you have believed it, and said he wasn't keeping his nose clean? Should he be suspended and treated as guilty because he wasn't living up the the higher standards? That sounds ludicrous, but I believe some of you would. It is impossible to prove innocence, that is why the courts must prove guilt instead. Unfortunately, the court of public opinion can cause a lot of damage all on its own.
 
mtgrizrule said:
As for JJ, from what I know of him, and have heard, I honestly doubt he is guilty, and this is a case of an ex with an axe to grind.

Why does everyone keep saying this this is an ex with an axe to grind? I haven't read one single bit of this case that has suggested this is the situation.
 
MrTitleist said:
mtgrizrule said:
As for JJ, from what I know of him, and have heard, I honestly doubt he is guilty, and this is a case of an ex with an axe to grind.

Why does everyone keep saying this this is an ex with an axe to grind? I haven't read one single bit of this case that has suggested this is the situation.

Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim
 
Cats2506 said:
MrTitleist said:
mtgrizrule said:
As for JJ, from what I know of him, and have heard, I honestly doubt he is guilty, and this is a case of an ex with an axe to grind.

Why does everyone keep saying this this is an ex with an axe to grind? I haven't read one single bit of this case that has suggested this is the situation.

Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim

Wasn't PR that started this rumor. Just being fair.
 
Cats2506 said:
Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim


36-10, buyatch.

She gave up the right to be called "victim" when she signed that dotted line.

What I would say to JJ, and any other player, is BE A LITTLE DESCRIMINATING! You can be choosy! You don't have to stick your d!ck in the crazy girls!
 
reed rothchild said:
Cats2506 said:
Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim


36-10, buyatch.

She gave up the right to be called "victim" when she signed that dotted line.

What I would say to JJ, and any other player, is BE A LITTLE DESCRIMINATING! You can be choosy! You don't have to stick your d!ck in the crazy girls!

Had a boss once he told me ALL women are bi-polar, thus that makes them ALL crazy. Become a monk, and you will have no problems.
 
Triwest said:
Cats2506 said:
MrTitleist said:
mtgrizrule said:
As for JJ, from what I know of him, and have heard, I honestly doubt he is guilty, and this is a case of an ex with an axe to grind.

Why does everyone keep saying this this is an ex with an axe to grind? I haven't read one single bit of this case that has suggested this is the situation.

Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim

Wasn't PR that started this rumor. Just being fair.

Thanks, TriWest. I haven't and don't start rumors. By the way, JJ's lawyer has said several times that she is an "acquaintance". The recent civil agreement apparently says both have to stay away from each other. The accuser has apparently now gone to the police. Let's assume she made an accusation to the police. JJ's lawyer has denied any wrongdoing. Where does that leave us? She said-he said. Don't we have to wait to see if any body take any action?

This matter should not have gotten into the press. Way too flimsy and pre-mature. Serious damage done. Why the rush? Yes, a media and newspaper that care more about selling papers than being ethical or doing the right thing.
 
PlayerRep said:
Triwest said:
Cats2506 said:
MrTitleist said:
Why does everyone keep saying this this is an ex with an axe to grind? I haven't read one single bit of this case that has suggested this is the situation.

Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim

Wasn't PR that started this rumor. Just being fair.

Thanks, TriWest. I haven't and don't start rumors. By the way, JJ's lawyer has said several times that she is an "acquaintance". The recent civil agreement apparently says both have to stay away from each other. The accuser has apparently now gone to the police. Let's assume she made an accusation to the police. JJ's lawyer has denied any wrongdoing. Where does that leave us? She said-he said. Don't we have to wait to see if any body take any action?

This matter should not have gotten into the press. Way too flimsy and pre-mature. Serious damage done. Why the rush? Yes, a media and newspaper that care more about selling papers than being ethical or doing the right thing.

Damn... this is like the fourth time today that I totally agree with PR... everyone... brace yourselves for the apocolypse!
 
Maybe I missed it earlier, but did the young lady in question file a police report or press charges in addition to the TRO? Can she at this point?
 
So you kick kids off the team once a complaint is filed.....guilty until proven innocent - OK. Then if you have a zero-tolerance policy for the football team (or any student), you then need to make it clear the university will punish the accuser if the accusation is proven false, or exaggerated. In no way do I condone sexual assault, rape etc. Those are horrible things, however, you have to have a system that protects both people until the truth comes out. If an accusation is proven true, then get rid of the kid off the team and school and let the legal system deal with that person. If it is proven false then the there must be consequences for that person as well to deter any "revenge" because of a relationship or one-night stand gone wrong. Both young people have lives on the line.
 
PlayerRep said:
Triwest said:
Cats2506 said:
MrTitleist said:
Why does everyone keep saying this this is an ex with an axe to grind? I haven't read one single bit of this case that has suggested this is the situation.

Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim

Wasn't PR that started this rumor. Just being fair.

Thanks, TriWest. I haven't and don't start rumors. By the way, JJ's lawyer has said several times that she is an "acquaintance". The recent civil agreement apparently says both have to stay away from each other. The accuser has apparently now gone to the police. Let's assume she made an accusation to the police. JJ's lawyer has denied any wrongdoing. Where does that leave us? She said-he said. Don't we have to wait to see if any body take any action?

This matter should not have gotten into the press. Way too flimsy and pre-mature. Serious damage done. Why the rush? Yes, a media and newspaper that care more about selling papers than being ethical or doing the right thing.

Shut the front door, the lawyer said he's innocent? Get that man a medal.

Why is it that so many posters are suggesting that suspending a player why a court proceeding happens is the equivalent of kicking them off the team?
 
putter said:
So you kick kids off the team once a complaint is filed.....guilty until proven innocent - OK. Then if you have a zero-tolerance policy for the football team (or any student), you then need to make it clear the university will punish the accuser if the accusation is proven false, or exaggerated. In no way do I condone sexual assault, rape etc. Those are horrible things, however, you have to have a system that protects both people until the truth comes out. If an accusation is proven true, then get rid of the kid off the team and school and let the legal system deal with that person. If it is proven false then the there must be consequences for that person as well to deter any "revenge" because of a relationship or one-night stand gone wrong. Both young people have lives on the line.

This is 100% on the money.

And I would add that all students who recieve $$ including academic and athletic scholarships should fall into the same level of scrutiny.

The JJ incident so far has been HYSTERIA based on no actual substance other than people who are out to get UM athletics. No formal charges, no evidence given, but JJ is actually fighting for his life in the public press right now. This TRO was in effect a actual potential conviction of this young man in the eyes of Gwen Florio, much of the public media, and many of the posters on this board including the one who started this thread.

As the one bobcat fan posted who is a officer in the flathead no one on this board really knows the full details or reality of this situation.

But the reality is " UM QB JORDAN JOHNSON ACCUSED OF RAPE " is now what Gwen Florio has people thinking about when anyone mentions JJ in the public. This is going to stick with this young man for the rest of his stay in Montana. He is in affect a RAPIST in the public eye without ever having been formally charged, found guilty due to evidence or given any chance to defend himself in public.

The Penn State child rape cases have sent everyone into a absolute HYSTERIA. UM has things they can do better and some of the changes will be positive. However this JJ thing really highlights the collateral damage people like the OP, Gwen Florio, and the haters of UM in general are doing.
 
Cats2506 said:
MrTitleist said:
mtgrizrule said:
As for JJ, from what I know of him, and have heard, I honestly doubt he is guilty, and this is a case of an ex with an axe to grind.

Why does everyone keep saying this this is an ex with an axe to grind? I haven't read one single bit of this case that has suggested this is the situation.

Because PR started that rumor to discredit the victim


I honestly don't know either way. I will very surprised if JJ did anything close to this. That is my opinion, and has nothing to to with PR convincing me of it either.
 
+1 with PR. I would debate with PR for hours regarding stats and brown nosing, but
when it comes to defending those who are "innocent until proven guilty", I can
not debate him. I could care less what the Missoulian or people on here try to spew out
to bias and convict in the public eye before there is even criminal charges filed. Egrizzers should have
learned from Jimmy Wilson's story, but we haven't...
 
Anyone who is truly sick of the Montana Grizzly football program, off the field now, on it when you all didn't think they scored enough points, or threw the ball enough, you really have but two options: 1. Be sick of it and drive yourself crazy and miserable or just roll with the punches and be a loyal fan, or 2. STOP BEING A FAN OF THE GRIZ. You have no other recourse. You have no other choices, no matter how much you donate, no matter how much you e-mail O'Day and threaten not to donate, no matter how many season tics you own, no matter how much whining you do on here or on bar stools at Reds. You're not part of the internal process. You have no say in Grizzly football matters. And if that's something you just can't live with, then you should stop being a fan. That will show EM!
 
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