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Junior...

Niners kept him on practice all season so they must see some potential. What do you consider long term in NFL? The average is 3.5 years. So very few have long term.
I believe he is a good athlete. far better than i have ever been. but it doesn’t take watching much of his tape from last preseason to see that he is a steph behind pretty much everybody else in size and burst. I was really rooting for Junior but i also can’t help but notice the tape. Even on his long return he didn’t really wow on film. that being said i hope he proves me wrong
 
I believe he is a good athlete. far better than i have ever been. but it doesn’t take watching much of his tape from last preseason to see that he is a steph behind pretty much everybody else in size and burst. I was really rooting for Junior but i also can’t help but notice the tape. Even on his long return he didn’t really wow on film. that being said i hope he proves me wrong
Perhaps that is all true. But returning punts is really a craft. First of all you have to have the balls to do it. Then the hand eye coordination to catch the ball while a bunch of tough fast athletic players trying to stay on rosters trying to take your head off. You can compare guys on tape as far as burst etc but Jr has the feel and the toughness and confidence. No offense but it ain’t track. A lot of faster guys with a lot of burst could never return punts.
 
As a Griz fan, I really hope he gets another chance to be the return guy this season. Hopefully in a full NFL offseason he can get a little bit more speed and work on some things that can help him.

As a Niners fan, however (especially if he was from any other school), I don't think it makes much sense for us to hold onto a WR that we only hope can be a decent return guy, but who we also don't want to/won't play at WR. Sorry, unless he takes a massive leap this offseason, he's not gonna be in the mix to get any real playing time as an NFL WR.

It's the same problem as last year: He's gonna need to beat out Cowing and/or Watkins to make the 53, assuming we don't pick up another Skyy Moore type WR that can be a returner, too.

My guess is that this season he'll get a chance to win the returner job in training camp, but if he doesn't flash this year, they'll likely cut him and move on. Certainly not what I want to happen, but it seems most likely.
 
Perhaps that is all true. But returning punts is really a craft. First of all you have to have the balls to do it. Then the hand eye coordination to catch the ball while a bunch of tough fast athletic players trying to stay on rosters trying to take your head off. You can compare guys on tape as far as burst etc but Jr has the feel and the toughness and confidence. No offense but it ain’t track. A lot of faster guys with a lot of burst could never return punts.
I’m aware that returning punts is a craft. For example, compare Marc Mariani when he got to the NFL; he was able to compete with guys physically in a way junior does not. He just doesn’t look like an NFL player in any sense. I think he could go up north and make one helluva career for himself. Like I said, I hope he proves me wrong, but so far, nothing in his NFL tape has shown me that this is a guy who is going to be making a difference for you as a special teams coordinator. I have the same thoughts about some of the current Griz players people are projecting to the NFL. There is a rhythm to that level of football that very few Big Sky players tend to match. Mike wortham i think will have that rhythm. Even comparing him to other just return guys, like he is no Mariani, He’s no Devin Hester, He’s no Cordalle Patterson, He’s no Julian edelman, the list goes etc…. and that’s what it takes to make a 53 man roster as returner.
 
Mariani was obviously great, but Bergen was a better college punt returner, in my view. Better vision and instincts. Mariani was 3 pounds heavier and 4 inches taller. I assume Mariani was faster going straight.

I don't know what was meant by Jump's comment on Junior not being able to compete physically.

I don't agree that a returner has to be a Hester, Patterson or Edelman to make the 53 roster. Junior just dropped a punt at an absolutely horrible time, is my view.
 
Mariani was obviously great, but Bergen was a better college punt returner, in my view. Better vision and instincts. Mariani was 3 pounds heavier and 4 inches taller. I assume Mariani was faster going straight.

I don't know what was meant by Jump's comment on Junior not being able to compete physically.

I don't agree that a returner has to be a Hester, Patterson or Edelman to make the 53 roster. Junior just dropped a punt at an absolutely horrible time, is my view.
Junior just dropped a punt at an absolutely horrible time, in my view.


I mean, that’s kind of what I’m getting at. When I watch the tape, I just don’t see an NFL player. I’d say the same about Tommy Mellott, and I’d argue he probably matches up physically better than Junior in the NFL, but even he plays at a rhythm that just doesn’t work in the NFL. It’s going to be a tall task for anybody to find a better college returner than Junior Bergen, but finding a better NFL returner, well, that’s a different story. I’m still of the opinion that he should head up north and carve out a nice career for himself like Keenan has. In better terms, the NFL is a straightforward game, and guys like Junior Bergen and Tommy Mellott are stuck moving side to side.
 
Junior just dropped a punt at an absolutely horrible time, in my view.


I mean, that’s kind of what I’m getting at. When I watch the tape, I just don’t see an NFL player. I’d say the same about Tommy Mellott, and I’d argue he probably matches up physically better than Junior in the NFL, but even he plays at a rhythm that just doesn’t work in the NFL. It’s going to be a tall task for anybody to find a better college returner than Junior Bergen, but finding a better NFL returner, well, that’s a different story. I’m still of the opinion that he should head up north and carve out a nice career for himself like Keenan has. In better terms, the NFL is a straightforward game, and guys like Junior Bergen and Tommy Mellott are stuck moving side to side.
Mellott and Bergen are not stuck moving side to side. I don’t get what you are saying. Mellott has huge speed. Mellott was trying to make team at a position he never played. Perhaps Bergen won’t be good enough to be a back-up NFL receiver.

Did you even play high school football?
 
Mellott and Bergen are not stuck moving side to side. I don’t get what you are saying. Mellott has huge speed. Mellott was trying to make team at a position he never played. Perhaps Bergen won’t be good enough to be a back-up NFL receiver.

Did you even play high school football?
Hoops, yes, I played high school football. I wasn’t some great football player, not even a quarter of the talent either one of them have, I really only talked to Frontier schools, and I was lucky enough to be a much better individual track athlete, which opened more doors for me there. I’ve also played on the same field as both of them. My first varsity action ever was missing a tackle on Tommy, then getting my young sophomore ass benched for the rest of the Butte game, and I watched Junior Bergen make one of the best plays a Montana high schooler has ever made. So I’m fully aware of how talented they are, both for this state and for the schools they ended up at. I’m also not blind to the fact that they are clearly not NFL caliber players. Yes, they’ve hung around practice squads and gotten preseason looks, but that does not make them 53 man roster material. When I say they get stuck moving side to side, what I mean is that they do not have that extra gear to explode upfield and create separation the way true NFL caliber players do. Like I said before, I think a guy like Michael Wortham does have that ability at the next level. Are Junior and Tommy NFL preseason caliber? Yeah, definitely. CFL, XFL, UFL caliber? Most definitely. NFL caliber? Absolutely not without major development. The standard for NFL speed and explosion is just different now, and Montana and Big Sky Conference dominance does not automatically translate to Sunday separation. Mellott does not have huge speed, because if he did, you would see more separation at the end of his long runs.
 
Hoops, yes, I played high school football. I wasn’t some great football player, not even a quarter of the talent either one of them have, I really only talked to Frontier schools, and I was lucky enough to be a much better individual track athlete, which opened more doors for me there. I’ve also played on the same field as both of them. My first varsity action ever was missing a tackle on Tommy, then getting my young sophomore ass benched for the rest of the Butte game, and I watched Junior Bergen make one of the best plays a Montana high schooler has ever made. So I’m fully aware of how talented they are, both for this state and for the schools they ended up at. I’m also not blind to the fact that they are clearly not NFL caliber players. Yes, they’ve hung around practice squads and gotten preseason looks, but that does not make them 53 man roster material. When I say they get stuck moving side to side, what I mean is that they do not have that extra gear to explode upfield and create separation the way true NFL caliber players do. Like I said before, I think a guy like Michael Wortham does have that ability at the next level. Are Junior and Tommy NFL preseason caliber? Yeah, definitely. CFL, XFL, UFL caliber? Most definitely. NFL caliber? Absolutely not without major development. The standard for NFL speed and explosion is just different now, and Montana and Big Sky Conference dominance does not automatically translate to Sunday separation. Mellott does not have huge speed, because if he did, you would see more separation at the end of his long runs.
Mellott has huge speed and ran 4.39 at Pro Day, I believe. I don’t recall ever seeing Mellott get caught. He always ran away from people. Surprised that track guy would be so wrong on that point.

Not in this post, but in others, you say things that make it seem you never played football. That’s why I asked.
 
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My views of Sky were all from my friends who are big Chiefs fans. I have never seen him play.

Less than 600 yards of receiving yards in 4 seasons. You think that is good? One-year contract.
No. As a Chiefs fan I was happy to see him go as a WR.

But that wasn't significant to the point I made and you argued that when he was signed by the Niners, it would negatively impact Junior's opportunities as a returner. Of course, I was 100% accurate and you were clearly wrong, but I know you won't admit to that, so I guess we're done here.
 
Mellott has huge speed and ran 4.39 at Pro Day, I believe. I don’t recall ever seeing Mellott get caught. He always ran away from people. Surprised that track guy would be so wrong on that point.

Not in this post, but in others, you say things that make it seem you never played football. That’s why I asked.
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No. As a Chiefs fan I was happy to see him go as a WR.

But that wasn't significant to the point I made and you argued that when he was signed by the Niners, it would negatively impact Junior's opportunities as a returner. Of course, I was 100% accurate and you were clearly wrong, but I know you won't admit to that, so I guess we're done here.
Nope. I said similar things as you did.
I knew an experienced combo receiver and returner would impact Vergen. Not Sky is gone now. 49ers must not want him. He signed a small one-year contract.
 
Mellott has huge speed and ran 4.39 at Pro Day, I believe. I don’t recall ever seeing Mellott get caught. He always ran away from people. Surprised that track guy would be so wrong on that point.

Not in this post, but in others, you say things that make it seem you never played football. That’s why I asked.
40 times don’t translate to football speed. That’s coming from a track guy. What other posts have made it seem like i haven’t played football? The one where i explained my 44 front, an experimental defense. If you could provide an example of where i don’t express a clear deeper understanding of aspects of the game. I like to grow in my football knowledge.
 
40 times don’t translate to football speed. That’s coming from a track guy. What other posts have made it seem like i haven’t played football? The one where i explained my 44 front, an experimental defense. If you could provide an example of where i don’t express a clear deeper understanding of aspects of the game. I like to grow in my football knowledge.
Mellott had huge football speed. 4.39 would have been top 20 at combine. Yes, I saw you said you were a jumper. How high did you jump in college? I don’t have time to look for examples. It wasn’t the 44. I never saw that. Mellott and Bergen weren’t side to side guys.
You don’t think Mellott had burner speed. Those are 2. There were a few more.
 

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