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JJ Trial

Jerry Punch said:
UMGriz75: I'm curious to know- are these character witnesses instantly more believable than those testifying for the alleged victim? If so, why?


Well has there actually been a true character witness called by the state? I mean I know people were called, but there testimony was less about the alleged victims character than it was about actual events. I see you point though. The current character witness called by the defense right now isn't really doing anything other than saying JJ is a good kid. I can't imagine it would be hard to find someone who would also say he is a pain in the ass. He is by definition a character witness. In this case I don't think he helps or hurts either side really. I mean really one of the things he said was about how he called a penalty and he expected Jordan to slam the ball but he didn't. Seems a little trivial to me.
 
UMGriz75 said:
The testimony was odd from several angles. The Counselor testified that she was there for "support" and not to "investigate" or "question" the "patient." In other words, the patient is allowed to lead the medical person down the merry path because the medical person is willing to be led there; indeed, feels an obligation to be led there. Aside from a "worst practice" from a diagnostic standpoint, this presents an open field for the average psychopath or sociopath.

And here again is that manipulative side of Jane Doe. She calls the attorneys in Atlanta, then goes on a investigative mission to invade JJ's privacy to discover -- and apparently she couldn't -- a history of JJ's "escapades." She then talks to the Counselor, and "discovers" that he's "done this many times," -- aha!, she is vindicated -- and now becomes not just a martyr, but wholly justified in the way that often transforms moral crusades into old fashioned lynchings: she's doing it for others, to protect others, and what she does therefore becomes self-justifying, even if it did not actually happen to her.

He becomes the "monster" who has done this repeatedly. Her crying is no longer a genuine emotional response, if it ever was, it is a political statement of solidarity. It becomes, literally, a crusade. Indeed, what may not have happened at all to her, specifically, becomes the driving force of her emotional being, because it happened to others, and she becomes a self-appointed symbol of true justice for whom the lie, the moral shortcut, is entirely justified because of the higher moral good.

I've had the misfortune of dealing with sociopaths maybe twice, three times in my career. They are spooky creatures. They believe, entirely, the words coming out of their mouths, no matter how absurd. A Counselor like this one is purely an enabler and, rather than providing guidance and treatment, provides cover and justification, indeed, encouragement of exactly the wrong kind; assisting in the development of, rather than the treatment of, a pathology. In this case, becoming enmeshed in it: "my Counselor told me that ...", which suddenly lent authority and urgency to all of her public feelings. Here, especially problematic because she appears to have specifically made a public lie out of what her Counselor actually told her. Indeed, her Counselor being forced to publicly claim that Jane Doe lied.

Mainly, I am thinking of her behavior at the Forester's Ball, her now exposed lies about JJ's sexual history and how she was spreading that around, her lies to her loyal ex-boyfriend, Loy Bink, and her positive excitement when describing the fact that she had been "raped" and then is challenging her companion, sounding almost excited about it, to "guess who?" The text messages with the smiley faces; the "ton of bricks" and the "it's all good" texts.

This isn't a typical, "she said, he said" case. There's a lot more going on here, and very little of it has to do with JJ.

You're dead on here, 75. The movie Fatal Attraction is great learning material for anyone who wants to understand the 'Borderline Personality syndrome' better.
 
RobGriz said:
[And yet all you can do is pray like hell that some young woman was raped so that your team will never have to face a Jordan Johnson led Grizzly team again. So much so, in fact, that you come here everyday bashing anyone that supports Johnson and opposes your opinion that he did in fact rape this girl. Mind you, you know as much as the rest of us, but we are only allowed your opinion. Hypocrite much?

Am I wrong? If this was Joe Blow who was wrongly accused, would there be 67 pages defending him and trashing a girl and everyone associated with her?? The simple answer is no...

So again I say... If you cared so deeply for JJ as a person, by all means donate to his defense fund and show some real support for he and his family. But you wont for fear that he cannot help the TEAM so I once again submit that you could careless about the non-football playing JJ...
 
spokaneman said:
Am I wrong? If this was Joe Blow who was wrongly accused, would there be 67 pages defending him and trashing a girl and everyone associated with her?? The simple answer is no...

It's a Griz football board SlingBlade.
 
spokaneman said:
wbtfg said:
GrizMusician said:
I just realized... isn't it ironic that our taxpayer's money is going towards paying for this trial & prosecution... but we can't support JJ financially in any way because it is against NCAA rules?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

You can support jj financially all you want. He just wouldnt be able to play ncaa football afterwards.

And this my friends is what your gut wrenching, panty soiling, victim bashing is all about! Hoping that a guy who can throw a football is found innocent of RAPE so you can erase the memory of a 3-5 conference record!

None of you would give a rats ass if this was the Saudi National that the UM let loose after he had his fun... but it is your QB and that somehow justifies the slander and names that have been hurled towards this girl and her family...

If you HONESTLY cared about JJ as a person and not a QB, then ALL of you would have said "Hell YA lets contribute to his defense fund".. but in the end, that would defeat the purpose of all your fake concern for him personally! Keep it classy Griz! :thumb:


watching you implode is fun....
 
spokaneman said:
RobGriz said:
[And yet all you can do is pray like hell that some young woman was raped so that your team will never have to face a Jordan Johnson led Grizzly team again. So much so, in fact, that you come here everyday bashing anyone that supports Johnson and opposes your opinion that he did in fact rape this girl. Mind you, you know as much as the rest of us, but we are only allowed your opinion. Hypocrite much?

Am I wrong? If this was Joe Blow who was wrongly accused, would there be 67 pages defending him and trashing a girl and everyone associated with her?? The simple answer is no...

So again I say... If you cared so deeply for JJ as a person, by all means donate to his defense fund and show some real support for he and his family. But you wont for fear that he cannot help the TEAM so I once again submit that you could careless about the non-football playing JJ...
If this was Joe Blow it wouldn't have gone to trial. I think the true rape here is your red turf. That is violent eye rape.
 
spokaneman said:
RobGriz said:
[And yet all you can do is pray like hell that some young woman was raped so that your team will never have to face a Jordan Johnson led Grizzly team again. So much so, in fact, that you come here everyday bashing anyone that supports Johnson and opposes your opinion that he did in fact rape this girl. Mind you, you know as much as the rest of us, but we are only allowed your opinion. Hypocrite much?

Am I wrong? If this was Joe Blow who was wrongly accused, would there be 67 pages defending him and trashing a girl and everyone associated with her?? The simple answer is no...

So again I say... If you cared so deeply for JJ as a person, by all means donate to his defense fund and show some real support for he and his family. But you wont for fear that he cannot help the TEAM so I once again submit that you could careless about the non-football playing JJ...

how does any of that matter? of course there wouldn't be a huge thread here if it was joe blow because joe blow is not a griz? who cares? that's life in the public eye. you get the good with the bad. you find ANYTHING newsworthy dealing with a celebrity and i can find the exact same scenario with a non-celeb. which do you think would make the news? that doesn't change anything....

the bottom line is jj is going to be found guilty or not. that is all that matters. and following your logic, he is the real victim here because if he was just some joe blow it wouldn't be on the front page of the newspaper and on national tv.

but now griz fans are terrible people because they are showing support to a griz player who may be completely innocent? i fail to see the logic. :?
 
spokaneman said:
RobGriz said:
[And yet all you can do is pray like hell that some young woman was raped so that your team will never have to face a Jordan Johnson led Grizzly team again. So much so, in fact, that you come here everyday bashing anyone that supports Johnson and opposes your opinion that he did in fact rape this girl. Mind you, you know as much as the rest of us, but we are only allowed your opinion. Hypocrite much?

Am I wrong? If this was Joe Blow who was wrongly accused, would there be 67 pages defending him and trashing a girl and everyone associated with her?? The simple answer is no...

So again I say... If you cared so deeply for JJ as a person, by all means donate to his defense fund and show some real support for he and his family. But you wont for fear that he cannot help the TEAM so I once again submit that you could careless about the non-football playing JJ...

So let me ask you this... why do you care so much what we Griz fans think?
 
Just an observation:

I enjoy reading UMGriz75's posts on the trial. Yes, he has a bias in favor of the defendant in this case, and he readily admits it, but it seems to me to be based on his reading of the evidence and his overall conclusion that Jordan Johnson has been wronged in the "court of public opinion."

I don't always agree with him, but I get where he's coming from and I appreciate his explanations.

What's disappointing to me in this thread are the crude, vulgar, and/or snarky posts about Gwen Florio or women in general. I realize some people are just trying to be witty, or get a laugh out of their buddies, but honestly, how do you think those posts come across to objective, disinterested people who are reading this forum? I don't think they reflect well on Jordan Johnson, UM athletics, or the male half of the human race. Overall, I think they just reinforce the worst stereotypes that some people try to perpetuate about athletes, men or both.

So I'm just asking people to think before they post. Look, I'm a dumbass and I go for the cheap laughs, but I realize there's a line I can't cross. I'm just asking people to look for that line. It's in everbody's best interests.
 
JBS said:
If this was Joe Blow it wouldn't have gone to trial. I think the true rape here is your red turf. That is violent eye rape.

Did it contribute to the Griz blowing a 9 point lead late in the 4th??
 
AllWeatherFan said:
Just an observation:

I enjoy reading UMGriz75's posts on the trial. Yes, he has a bias in favor of the defendant in this case, and he readily admits it, but it seems to me to be based on his reading of the evidence and his overall conclusion that Jordan Johnson has been wronged in the "court of public opinion."

I don't always agree with him, but I get where he's coming from and I appreciate his explanations.

What's disappointing to me in this thread are the crude, vulgar, and/or snarky posts about Gwen Florio or women in general. I realize some people are just trying to be witty, or get a laugh out of their buddies, but honestly, how do you think those posts come across to objective, disinterested people who are reading this forum? I don't think they reflect well on Jordan Johnson, UM athletics, or the male half of the human race. Overall, I think they just reinforce the worst stereotypes that some people try to perpetuate about athletes, men or both.

So I'm just asking people to think before they post. Look, I'm a dumbass and I go for the cheap laughs, but I realize there's a line I can't cross. I'm just asking people to look for that line. It's in everbody's best interests.
I get what your saying, but Gwen, as a public figure, needs to be able to handle snarky comments...the crude and vulgar, probably not.
 
spokaneman said:
JBS said:
If this was Joe Blow it wouldn't have gone to trial. I think the true rape here is your red turf. That is violent eye rape.

Did it contribute to the Griz blowing a 9 point lead late in the 4th??
:thumb: Wow...how long have you been holding that one back. Admit it, you just wet yourself a little.
 
cclarkblues said:
Two thoughts:

1. That blanket is cleaner than the ones you find in any motel room.

2. Being a Gyno probably isn't as good a gig as you imagined at age 14.
for 375 bucks an hour I could probably stand looking at a few nasties :lol:
 
spokaneman said:
JBS said:
If this was Joe Blow it wouldn't have gone to trial. I think the true rape here is your red turf. That is violent eye rape.

Did it contribute to the Griz blowing a 9 point lead late in the 4th??

Nope. And your point is?
 
NorthEndZoneDan said:
cclarkblues said:
Two thoughts:

1. That blanket is cleaner than the ones you find in any motel room.

2. Being a Gyno probably isn't as good a gig as you imagined at age 14.
for 375 bucks an hour I could probably stand looking at a few nasties :lol:

Oh admit it, you've seen worse for much less. :D
 
spokaneman said:
JBS said:
If this was Joe Blow it wouldn't have gone to trial. I think the true rape here is your red turf. That is violent eye rape.

Did it contribute to the Griz blowing a 9 point lead late in the 4th??


Did he say the red turf was a factor in the Griz blowing a 9 point lead late in the 4th??
 
Griz2k said:
So let me ask you this... why do you care so much what we Griz fans think?

I could honestly careless.... I jumped in when classless a-holes began dragging a "possible" victim, her roommates, her friends, her family, and MUCH of the Missoula community thu the mud in an effort to demonize her.

JJ could very well be innocent.. or he could very well be guilty but that is a decision for the court system. Adding additional pain and suffering to the "victim" and her friends and family is not necessary for justice to be served.

Showing support for JJ is understandably warranted, but there is a huge difference between showing support and slandering others...
 
Griz2k said:
NorthEndZoneDan said:
cclarkblues said:
Two thoughts:

1. That blanket is cleaner than the ones you find in any motel room.

2. Being a Gyno probably isn't as good a gig as you imagined at age 14.
for 375 bucks an hour I could probably stand looking at a few nasties :lol:

Oh admit it, you've seen worse for much less. :D

damn, just got busted :shock:
 
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