JJ Trial

[PlayerRep]

I may be wrong, but I haven't read anything where Paoli has conceded that she said "no" even in a baby voice. He was asking the questions from Doe, not answering them. Please show the proof of this cats666?

True. Paoli asked her if she said no (perhaps the second time) in a baby voice. Didn't concede anything.

 

[PlayerRep]

Did the evidence really come out today that the alleged victim lied about her own counselor telling her that Jordan had "raped" other women. If I recall, the alleged victim had stated to friends that she was doing all of this for the others. So she makes up a lie about what her counselor told her for her to get attention and seem like someone who a martyr. And then did I actually read that the counselor admitted that in fact she never said anything of the sort. The counselor admitted that her own client made up a complex lie to gain attention. And that is classified as someone who has PTSD? Did I really read that today?

So of she is willing to lie about what she says her counselor told her in order to get attention like that of a martyr, how can this jury ever believe what she says. She is willing to lie about everyone in her life. This alleged victim is playing a very sick, sick game, in my opinion. This is just an incredible piece of evidence.

True. However, the same thing happened twice. Both with the rape nurse and the counselor.

 

[griz4life]

Was anyone actually in court when the video was played? The tweets didn't read like the prosecution gained much. Did Johnson come across worse than what he actually said? There was a point where he says he is scared,but no one tweeted the questions the detective was asking so its really hard to tell if the answers were a good fit.

 

[GrizMusician]

You know you secretly agree with me often, it just isn't PC over here to agree publicly :thumb:

Oh and IMO the whold bringing the gun thing into it is just more smoke and mirrors, the defense doesn't want the jury thinking about what may have actually happened, they are hoping they are distracted by shiny objects.

See, this is why it is strange to agree with you on anything, because what you said is nonsense. The defense will bring in many things to try to connect with jurors of all stripes. Some are silly and most aren't. The defense is kicking ass.

The jury like all of us will take different implications from the evidence. I didn't take the gun reference as an implication to discredit him as a gun nut. I took at is as implication to the jury that if the accuser was as terrified as she testified, why didn't she text the roommate that would help her.

This is what I thought, and why I made the post. The accuser knew that her gun nut roommate was in an adjacent room (he was sleeping), and any big scream by her may have brought him out of his room with a loaded gun to assist her. Notwithstanding any general expert testimony to the contrary, it is inexplicable that she didn't scream or call for help if she thought she was being raped. Both of her male roommates were only 10 or 15 feet away. Johnson knew that one roommate was only feet away.

Well... the "gun nut" roomie is actually a huge pussy... so...

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[GrizMusician]

I just realized... isn't it ironic that our taxpayer's money is going towards paying for this trial & prosecution... but we can't support JJ financially in any way because it is against NCAA rules?

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[UMGriz75]

Did the evidence really come out today that the alleged victim lied about her own counselor telling her that Jordan had "raped" other women. If I recall, the alleged victim had stated to friends that she was doing all of this for the others. So she makes up a lie about what her counselor told her for her to get attention and seem like someone who a martyr. And then did I actually read that the counselor admitted that in fact she never said anything of the sort. The counselor admitted that her own client made up a complex lie to gain attention. And that is classified as someone who has PTSD? Did I really read that today?

So of she is willing to lie about what she says her counselor told her in order to get attention like that of a martyr, how can this jury ever believe what she says. She is willing to lie about everyone in her life. This alleged victim is playing a very sick, sick game, in my opinion. This is just an incredible piece of evidence.

The testimony was odd from several angles. The Counselor testified that she was there for "support" and not to "investigate" or "question" the "patient." In other words, the patient is allowed to lead the medical person down the merry path because the medical person is willing to be led there; indeed, feels an obligation to be led there. Aside from a "worst practice" from a diagnostic standpoint, this presents an open field for the average psychopath or sociopath.

And here again is that manipulative side of Jane Doe. She calls the attorneys in Atlanta, then goes on a investigative mission to invade JJ's privacy to discover -- and apparently she couldn't -- a history of JJ's "escapades." She then talks to the Counselor, and "discovers" that he's "done this many times," -- aha!, she is vindicated -- and now becomes not just a martyr, but wholly justified in the way that often transforms moral crusades into old fashioned lynchings: she's doing it for others, to protect others, and what she does therefore becomes self-justifying, even if it did not actually happen to her.

He becomes the "monster" who has done this repeatedly. Her crying is no longer a genuine emotional response, if it ever was, it is a political statement of solidarity. It becomes, literally, a crusade. Indeed, what may not have happened at all to her, specifically, becomes the driving force of her emotional being, because it happened to others, and she becomes a self-appointed symbol of true justice for whom the lie, the moral shortcut, is entirely justified because of the higher moral good.

I've had the misfortune of dealing with sociopaths maybe twice, three times in my career. They are spooky creatures. They believe, entirely, the words coming out of their mouths, no matter how absurd. A Counselor like this one is purely an enabler and, rather than providing guidance and treatment, provides cover and justification, indeed, encouragement of exactly the wrong kind; assisting in the development of, rather than the treatment of, a pathology. In this case, becoming enmeshed in it: "my Counselor told me that ...", which suddenly lent authority and urgency to all of her public feelings. Here, especially problematic because she appears to have specifically made a public lie out of what her Counselor actually told her. Indeed, her Counselor being forced to publicly claim that Jane Doe lied.

Mainly, I am thinking of her behavior at the Forester's Ball, her now exposed lies about JJ's sexual history and how she was spreading that around, her lies to her loyal ex-boyfriend, Loy Bink, and her positive excitement when describing the fact that she had been "raped" and then is challenging her companion, sounding almost excited about it, to "guess who?" The text messages with the smiley faces; the "ton of bricks" and the "it's all good" texts.

This isn't a typical, "she said, he said" case. There's a lot more going on here, and very little of it has to do with JJ.

 

[wbtfg]

I just realized... isn't it ironic that our taxpayer's money is going towards paying for this trial & prosecution... but we can't support JJ financially in any way because it is against NCAA rules?

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You can support jj financially all you want. He just wouldnt be able to play ncaa football afterwards.

 

[zengriz]

...and it'z already been posted...
...juzt cut hiz mom/dad a check...

... ...

 

[UMGriz75]

I may be wrong, but I haven't read anything where Paoli has conceded that she said "no" even in a baby voice. He was asking the questions from Doe, not answering them. Please show the proof of this cats666?

True. Paoli asked her if she said no (perhaps the second time) in a baby voice. Didn't concede anything.

And, if the Jury comes down to this -- and they likely will have to ultimately focus on a key point in time here -- will they be deciding did she say "no" in baby-talk while playfully removing her top, or not say "no" at all?

Neither alternative leaves the Jury with a reasonable lack of consent argument to say that a rape occurred.

 

[Griz2k]

What was the significance of showing the blanket that may or may not have had a little spiggy on it. Everyone knows they had sex, so........

 

[argh!]

i feel sad for the community that is usually missoula, with such a polarizing event being the headlines everywhere.

Well maybe we should just believe everything she says. That would make us "usually Missoula" I think. Maybe your memories of Missoula just revolve around a little section on the North East side of town South of the river, and a little jaunt downtown now and then. If you don't think this would be the main headlines here, and are disgusted by it like you sound, why do you come here? If you are interested in the actual football, I see there are other threads. Basketball has its own forum. Just stay away from this one if you are sad.

huh? i'll do what i want, but thanks for the advice!

 

[Cats2506]

Did the evidence really come out today that the alleged victim lied about her own counselor telling her that Jordan had "raped" other women. If I recall, the alleged victim had stated to friends that she was doing all of this for the others. So she makes up a lie about what her counselor told her for her to get attention and seem like someone who a martyr. And then did I actually read that the counselor admitted that in fact she never said anything of the sort. The counselor admitted that her own client made up a complex lie to gain attention. And that is classified as someone who has PTSD? Did I really read that today?

So of she is willing to lie about what she says her counselor told her in order to get attention like that of a martyr, how can this jury ever believe what she says. She is willing to lie about everyone in her life. This alleged victim is playing a very sick, sick game, in my opinion. This is just an incredible piece of evidence.

The testimony was odd from several angles. The Counselor testified that she was there for "support" and not to "investigate" or "question" the "patient." In other words, the patient is allowed to lead the medical person down the merry path because the medical person is willing to be led there; indeed, feels an obligation to be led there. Aside from a "worst practice" from a diagnostic standpoint, this presents an open field for the average psychopath or sociopath.

And here again is that manipulative side of Jane Doe. She calls the attorneys in Atlanta, then goes on a investigative mission to invade JJ's privacy to discover -- and apparently she couldn't -- a history of JJ's "escapades." She then talks to the Counselor, and "discovers" that he's "done this many times," -- aha!, she is vindicated -- and now becomes not just a martyr, but wholly justified in the way that often transforms moral crusades into old fashioned lynchings: she's doing it for others, to protect others, and what she does therefore becomes self-justifying, even if it did not actually happen to her.

He becomes the "monster" who has done this repeatedly. Her crying is no longer a genuine emotional response, if it ever was, it is a political statement of solidarity. It becomes, literally, a crusade. Indeed, what may not have happened at all to her, specifically, becomes the driving force of her emotional being, because it happened to others, and she becomes a self-appointed symbol of true justice for whom the lie, the moral shortcut, is entirely justified because of the higher moral good.

I've had the misfortune of dealing with sociopaths maybe twice, three times in my career. They are spooky creatures. They believe, entirely, the words coming out of their mouths, no matter how absurd. A Counselor like this one is purely an enabler and, rather than providing guidance and treatment, provides cover and justification, indeed, encouragement of exactly the wrong kind; assisting in the development of, rather than the treatment of, a pathology. In this case, becoming enmeshed in it: "my Counselor told me that ...", which suddenly lent authority and urgency to all of her public feelings. Here, especially problematic because she appears to have specifically made a public lie out of what her Counselor actually told her. Indeed, her Counselor being forced to publicly claim that Jane Doe lied.

Mainly, I am thinking of her behavior at the Forester's Ball, her now exposed lies about JJ's sexual history and how she was spreading that around, her lies to her loyal ex-boyfriend, Loy Bink, and her positive excitement when describing the fact that she had been "raped" and then is challenging her companion, sounding almost excited about it, to "guess who?" The text messages with the smiley faces; the "ton of bricks" and the "it's all good" texts.

This isn't a typical, "she said, he said" case. There's a lot more going on here, and very little of it has to do with JJ.

You are writing a book about shiny bobbles that have nothing to do with the heart of this case.

 

[Cats2506]

I may be wrong, but I haven't read anything where Paoli has conceded that she said "no" even in a baby voice. He was asking the questions from Doe, not answering them. Please show the proof of this cats666?

True. Paoli asked her if she said no (perhaps the second time) in a baby voice. Didn't concede anything.

And, if the Jury comes down to this -- and they likely will have to ultimately focus on a key point in time here -- will they be deciding did she say "no" in baby-talk while playfully removing her top, or not say "no" at all?

Neither alternative leaves the Jury with a reasonable lack of consent argument to say that a rape occurred.

I know and have known lots of people, especially young ones that when afraid and intimidated speak and a soft "baby" voice. the fact that she said it that way may be an indicator of the fear that she felt at the time :shock:


JJ's lawyer screwed the pooch when he asked her if she in fact said no in a "baby voice"

 

[UMGriz75]

I may be wrong, but I haven't read anything where Paoli has conceded that she said "no" even in a baby voice. He was asking the questions from Doe, not answering them. Please show the proof of this cats666?

True. Paoli asked her if she said no (perhaps the second time) in a baby voice. Didn't concede anything.

And, if the Jury comes down to this -- and they likely will have to ultimately focus on a key point in time here -- will they be deciding did she say "no" in baby-talk while playfully removing her top, or not say "no" at all?

Neither alternative leaves the Jury with a reasonable lack of consent argument to say that a rape occurred.

I know and have known lots of people, especially young ones that when afraid and intimidated speak and a soft "baby" voice. the fact that she said it that way may be an indicator of the fear that she felt at the time :shock:


JJ's lawyer screwed the pooch when he asked her if she in fact said no in a "baby voice"

Yeah, it just "may be" -- isn't that the speculation you abhor? Or is that what you are anxious to promote?

 

[kemajic]

I may be wrong, but I haven't read anything where Paoli has conceded that she said "no" even in a baby voice. He was asking the questions from Doe, not answering them. Please show the proof of this cats666?

True. Paoli asked her if she said no (perhaps the second time) in a baby voice. Didn't concede anything.

And, if the Jury comes down to this -- and they likely will have to ultimately focus on a key point in time here -- will they be deciding did she say "no" in baby-talk while playfully removing her top, or not say "no" at all?

Neither alternative leaves the Jury with a reasonable lack of consent argument to say that a rape occurred.

I know and have known lots of people, especially young ones that when afraid and intimidated speak and a soft "baby" voice. the fact that she said it that way may be an indicator of the fear that she felt at the time :shock:


JJ's lawyer screwed the pooch when he asked her if she in fact said no in a "baby voice"

Oh my; his one exceeds all others.

 

[Jerry Punch]

I just realized... isn't it ironic that our taxpayer's money is going towards paying for this trial & prosecution... but we can't support JJ financially in any way because it is against NCAA rules?

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No. Not ironic at all. That's just the way it is. If JJ couldn't afford Paoli, there are other avenues of recourse in the justice system for legal representation.

Which makes me ask: If JJ wasn't the star, would the alleged victim have even sought him out? And if he wasn't the star, would Egrizzers even care?

 

[grizpack]

I just realized... isn't it ironic that our taxpayer's money is going towards paying for this trial & prosecution... but we can't support JJ financially in any way because it is against NCAA rules?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

No. Not ironic at all. That's just the way it is. If JJ couldn't afford Paoli, there are other avenues of recourse in the justice system for legal representation.

Which makes me ask: If JJ wasn't the star, would the alleged victim have even sought him out? And if he wasn't the star, would Egrizzers even care?

No. No.

 

[GrizBear]

Thompson helps CB hold up blanket appears to have "fluid" on it #JohnsonTrial pic.twitter.com/kx6P1qCW4V

appears to have "fluid" on it...wtf missoulian?

That's some industrial strength super-spuz if it's still fluid after all these months.

 

[MrTitleist]

This is kind of scary.. this comment is from today's Missoulian article about the case.. I'm sad there are people like this out in the world, and I'm sad they have to share the same oxygen with them. People like this are a HUGE problem.

flowergirl - 10 hours ago
Paoli is a bully. He is a former Griz player. Every pic of him is aggressive, and that is what I have seen from him. Johnson is a piece of !@$## who should be in prison. I have no clue who the woman is, but she has been through hell, and this must end. Send him to prison where he belongs. This university and their "players" need an attitude adjustment. I will NEVER support the Griz athletics and hope for the demise of the entire athletic program. We need this university to return to the job of education, and nothing else. I sincerely hope the entire athletic department is disbanded, and we return to the foundation of education for our youth

 

[blackfoot griz]

I just realized... isn't it ironic that our taxpayer's money is going towards paying for this trial & prosecution... but we can't support JJ financially in any way because it is against NCAA rules?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

No. Not ironic at all. That's just the way it is. If JJ couldn't afford Paoli, there are other avenues of recourse in the justice system for legal representation.

Which makes me ask: If JJ wasn't the star, would the alleged victim have even sought him out? And if he wasn't the star, would Egrizzers even care?

Neither would the NCAA, Missoulian, Dept. of Justice etc and ..some Bobcat fans