JJ decision

[br fan]

I'm really important. I know people and I know stuff. But that's all I can tell you dumbasses.

all I can tell you is that crackgina is exactly 100% correct on this.

The BOR decision has been made, but the only decision that matters now is the one sitting at the desk of The Commissioner of Higher Education, Clay Christian. He has the FINAL say on this matter, even though depending on his decision the final say may be in a courtroom because there is a 100% probablility Dave Paoli will file a suit on behalf of his client immediately.

The final say will not be in a court room. The most that will come out of a courtroom is a return to the University for a "more fair" hearing assuming the court determines the University broke its own rules.....

I agree that the final say on whether JJ is expelled will not come from the courtroom, but I doubt we will ever see a court order a more "fair hearing."

The 7-0 vote was made before Christiansen issued his order reflecting in his opinion UM screwed up the hearing. If the BOD upholds the ruling there will be a lawsuit against UM. JJ will then be gone, but its pretty apparent that UM will then be liable for damages. IMO those damages will be monetary, not the court ordering a "do over."

On the other hand the BOD can take notice of Christiansen's red flag that UM will be monetarily liable if they uphold the ruling, and so not uphold it. This appears to be the no-brainer decision, but I don't believe the BOD nor UM then have the authority to request a "do over."

 

[grizcountry420]

I always love to hear the holier than thou Griz fans whine if someone suggests the team is nothing but a bunch of thugs. While I certainly don't believe that, it seems a little hypocritical to cry foul when for years Griz fans have made the same statements about the Cats despite the fact that with the exception of a few, all the problems that led to the firing of Kramer actually involved former players. Since Ash has taken over there have only been two incidents of an active player running afoul of the law and both were handled immediately without "letting the legal system run its course." So while I agree that it is wrong to label the whole Griz team as thugs because there are many great kids on the team, the old saying "you reap what you sow" comes to mind.

Cool story bro..............

 

[polsongrizz]

I always love to hear the holier than thou Griz fans whine if someone suggests the team is nothing but a bunch of thugs. While I certainly don't believe that, it seems a little hypocritical to cry foul when for years Griz fans have made the same statements about the Cats despite the fact that with the exception of a few, all the problems that led to the firing of Kramer actually involved former players. Since Ash has taken over there have only been two incidents of an active player running afoul of the law and both were handled immediately without "letting the legal system run its course." So while I agree that it is wrong to label the whole Griz team as thugs because there are many great kids on the team, the old saying "you reap what you sow" comes to mind.

So what you are saying is, is that we still beat the F&*K out of the cats on a fairly regular basis... :lol:

 

[tnt]

all I can tell you is that crackgina is exactly 100% correct on this.

The BOR decision has been made, but the only decision that matters now is the one sitting at the desk of The Commissioner of Higher Education, Clay Christian. He has the FINAL say on this matter, even though depending on his decision the final say may be in a courtroom because there is a 100% probablility Dave Paoli will file a suit on behalf of his client immediately.

The final say will not be in a court room. The most that will come out of a courtroom is a return to the University for a "more fair" hearing assuming the court determines the University broke its own rules.....

I agree that the final say on whether JJ is expelled will not come from the courtroom, but I doubt we will ever see a court order a more "fair hearing."

The 7-0 vote was made before Christiansen issued his order reflecting in his opinion UM screwed up the hearing. If the BOD upholds the ruling there will be a lawsuit against UM. JJ will then be gone, but its pretty apparent that UM will then be liable for damages. IMO those damages will be monetary, not the court ordering a "do over."

On the other hand the BOD can take notice of Christiansen's red flag that UM will be monetarily liable if they uphold the ruling, and so not uphold it. This appears to be the no-brainer decision, but I don't believe the BOD nor UM then have the authority to request a "do over."

Most of the cases I read where the court was involved in "due process of honor courts," lead to a "do over." Of course all we have heard is Paoli's side. One of the main complaints is that he was shouted down. The rules clearly state he could be present, but had no role or right to speak.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Why does my knowing something, while you don't, make your penis smaller?

 

[go96griz]

The BOR decision has been made, but the only decision that matters now is the one sitting at the desk of The Commissioner of Higher Education, Clay Christian. He has the FINAL say on this matter, even though depending on his decision the final say may be in a courtroom because there is a 100% probablility Dave Paoli will file a suit on behalf of his client immediately.

The final say will not be in a court room. The most that will come out of a courtroom is a return to the University for a "more fair" hearing assuming the court determines the University broke its own rules.....

I agree that the final say on whether JJ is expelled will not come from the courtroom, but I doubt we will ever see a court order a more "fair hearing."

The 7-0 vote was made before Christiansen issued his order reflecting in his opinion UM screwed up the hearing. If the BOD upholds the ruling there will be a lawsuit against UM. JJ will then be gone, but its pretty apparent that UM will then be liable for damages. IMO those damages will be monetary, not the court ordering a "do over."

On the other hand the BOD can take notice of Christiansen's red flag that UM will be monetarily liable if they uphold the ruling, and so not uphold it. This appears to be the no-brainer decision, but I don't believe the BOD nor UM then have the authority to request a "do over."

Most of the cases I read where the court was involved in "due process of honor courts," lead to a "do over." Of course all we have heard is Paoli's side. One of the main complaints is that he was shouted down. The rules clearly state he could be present, but had no role or right to speak.

Paoli's signed affidavit listing 20+ issues against JJ should be considered very strong evidence since Paoli is subject to the State Bar of Montana where any ethical violations (including lying on an affidavit) would likely cause him to lose his ability to practice.

 

[tnt]

So there would be no answer to those issues? Such as why what "evidence" was included (or not) and why??? Daves word would be "the" word????

 

[grizpack]

Definition of Due Process -

The rules clearly state he could be present, but had no role or right to speak.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[br fan]

The BOR decision has been made, but the only decision that matters now is the one sitting at the desk of The Commissioner of Higher Education, Clay Christian. He has the FINAL say on this matter, even though depending on his decision the final say may be in a courtroom because there is a 100% probablility Dave Paoli will file a suit on behalf of his client immediately.

The final say will not be in a court room. The most that will come out of a courtroom is a return to the University for a "more fair" hearing assuming the court determines the University broke its own rules.....

I agree that the final say on whether JJ is expelled will not come from the courtroom, but I doubt we will ever see a court order a more "fair hearing."

The 7-0 vote was made before Christiansen issued his order reflecting in his opinion UM screwed up the hearing. If the BOD upholds the ruling there will be a lawsuit against UM. JJ will then be gone, but its pretty apparent that UM will then be liable for damages. IMO those damages will be monetary, not the court ordering a "do over."

On the other hand the BOD can take notice of Christiansen's red flag that UM will be monetarily liable if they uphold the ruling, and so not uphold it. This appears to be the no-brainer decision, but I don't believe the BOD nor UM then have the authority to request a "do over."

Most of the cases I read where the court was involved in "due process of honor courts," lead to a "do over." Of course all we have heard is Paoli's side. One of the main complaints is that he was shouted down. The rules clearly state he could be present, but had no role or right to speak.

To expand on GoGriz96 comments as to Paoli's "side," Christiansen's order is not based on "allegations" or "arguments" made by JJ in a brief; its based on Paoli's affidavit setting forth the "facts" surrounding the hearing. The court then made its own legal conclusions based on those "facts." If Paoli's affidavit is not accurate Paoli will be personally liable for perjury charges and Rule 11 sanctions. Based on this I'm pretty confident that the "facts" are accurate, and like I said earlier the court has raised a red flag for UM (and the BOD) as to the court's position with regard to those "facts."

The only way this goes back to court at this point is a situation where the BOD upholds the ruling. If the BOD does so, the ball is back in JJ's and Paoli's court; and they decide what they will do and they have Christiansen's order to back them up. If you think about it, the person who actually wants the "do over" is UM, and I do not think Paoli will give it to them and UM (and the BOD) knows it. JJ will then be expelled based on the BOD order, and JJ will then sue for monetary damages which at this point appears to be pretty apparent that he will recover.

The BOD's decision is pretty easy but has big implications. Uphold the ruling and expel him, and be liable for who knows how much in monetary damages. Or not uphold the ruling and let someone off (like I said I don't think UM and the BOD can order a "do over") who is actually guilty, all because UM screwed up the hearing

 

[Cat Pride]

Has JJ been expelled or not? Seems to me that with a 5-2 and 7-0 votes, Engstrom letter and BOR upheld decision that he is. If he is expelled, how is he still considered to be enrolled at UM and on the football team?

Or, can nothing be done until Clay to makes a final decision: A. reverse things, or B. approve the expulsion

What if he does neither? What allows JJ to practice or even go to class while he waits for Clay's decision?

 

[TDiggs1]

Has JJ been expelled or not? Seems to me that with a 5-2 and 7-0 votes, Engstrom letter and BOR upheld decision that he is. If he is expelled, how is he still considered to be enrolled at UM and on the football team?

Or, can nothing be done until Clay to makes a final decision: A. reverse things, or B. approve the expulsion

What if he does neither? What allows JJ to practice or even go to class while he waits for Clay's decision?

I believe the fact that it is an ongoing case and will most likely extend and drag out throughout the fall allows JJ to stay in school and on the team. As of this weekend I was at the Mo Club talking to a reliable source and he talked with JJ and others and said there is about a 99% chance JJ will be the starting QB this fall

 

[griz4life]

The 7-0 vote was made before Christiansen issued his order reflecting in his opinion UM screwed up the hearing. If the BOD upholds the ruling there will be a lawsuit against UM. JJ will then be gone, but its pretty apparent that UM will then be liable for damages. IMO those damages will be monetary, not the court ordering a "do over."

On the other hand the BOD can take notice of Christiansen's red flag that UM will be monetarily liable if they uphold the ruling, and so not uphold it. This appears to be the no-brainer decision, but I don't believe the BOD nor UM then have the authority to request a "do over."

Sadly, it is the Montana taxpayer and tuition paying students who will be punished by paying for whatever award JJ receives from the court. The University of Montana and the Commissioner of Higher Education are playing this poker game with house money, which means there really is no amount punitive enough to discourage them from doing what they damn well please.
And what seems to please the University of Montana more than anything is that Jordan Johnson not attend UM. However, should his current expulsion be reversed, Jordan Johnson will merely be assured that he can attend UM. No one is challenging the university's ability to kick players off its football team, or decide who will play. If the University of Montana doesn't want No. 10 on the field representing UM, it is in its right to bench him or boot him.

 

[Raider]

Has JJ been expelled or not? Seems to me that with a 5-2 and 7-0 votes, Engstrom letter and BOR upheld decision that he is. If he is expelled, how is he still considered to be enrolled at UM and on the football team?

Or, can nothing be done until Clay to makes a final decision: A. reverse things, or B. approve the expulsion

What if he does neither? What allows JJ to practice or even go to class while he waits for Clay's decision?

I believe the fact that it is an ongoing case and will most likely extend and drag out throughout the fall allows JJ to stay in school and on the team. As of this weekend I was at the Mo Club talking to a reliable source and he talked with JJ and others and said there is about a 99% chance JJ will be the starting QB this fall

Now, the real question on everyone’s mind……………

Was this reliable source better pals with Dillhole, or Jack?

The two have been deadlocked in an epic struggle for years over the affections of Mo Club staff.

Perhaps you can provide the tiebreaking input.

 

[Copper Griz]

I'm really important. I know people and I know stuff. But that's all I can tell you dumbasses.

Don't believe me then. You don't have to get all cranky. I know your job as a janitor doesn't have extra ethical guidelines so it may be beyond you to fathom such a thing. The question you need to ask is: Why does my knowing something, while you don't, make your penis smaller? Discuss. :mrgreen:

No need to beat up on janitors and people with small wankers CG. They have feelings also you bastage. Now I am forced to get the ACLU involved for your discriminatory statements. :mrgreen:

 

[Cats2506]

Has JJ been expelled or not? Seems to me that with a 5-2 and 7-0 votes, Engstrom letter and BOR upheld decision that he is. If he is expelled, how is he still considered to be enrolled at UM and on the football team?

Or, can nothing be done until Clay to makes a final decision: A. reverse things, or B. approve the expulsion

What if he does neither? What allows JJ to practice or even go to class while he waits for Clay's decision?

I believe the fact that it is an ongoing case and will most likely extend and drag out throughout the fall allows JJ to stay in school and on the team. As of this weekend I was at the Mo Club talking to a reliable source and he talked with JJ and others and said there is about a 99% chance JJ will be the starting QB this fall

so is TDiggs1 AG1

from Maroon blood

ALPHAGRIZ1
Post subject: FWIW - JJ InfoPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:16 pm

Within the last week I was at the Mo Club and talked to a former player that is currently playing in the NFL.

He told me that he has talked to JJ and said there is a 99% chance he will be playing QB for Montana this fall. He gave me details as to why and I agreed to not slam them on the internet but I am almost fully convinced there is nothing to worry about as far as JJs hearing and appeal.

 

[yellowstone60]

Has JJ been expelled or not? Seems to me that with a 5-2 and 7-0 votes, Engstrom letter and BOR upheld decision that he is. If he is expelled, how is he still considered to be enrolled at UM and on the football team?

Or, can nothing be done until Clay to makes a final decision: A. reverse things, or B. approve the expulsion

What if he does neither? What allows JJ to practice or even go to class while he waits for Clay's decision?

I believe the fact that it is an ongoing case and will most likely extend and drag out throughout the fall allows JJ to stay in school and on the team. As of this weekend I was at the Mo Club talking to a reliable source and he talked with JJ and others and said there is about a 99% chance JJ will be the starting QB this fall

so is TDiggs1 AG1

from Maroon blood

ALPHAGRIZ1
Post subject: FWIW - JJ InfoPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:16 pm

Within the last week I was at the Mo Club and talked to a former player that is currently playing in the NFL.

He told me that he has talked to JJ and said there is a 99% chance he will be playing QB for Montana this fall. He gave me details as to why and I agreed to not slam them on the internet but I am almost fully convinced there is nothing to worry about as far as JJs hearing and appeal.

Gee, I wonder what Eagles player that could be? :thumb:

 

[mcg]

The final say will not be in a court room. The most that will come out of a courtroom is a return to the University for a "more fair" hearing assuming the court determines the University broke its own rules.....

I agree that the final say on whether JJ is expelled will not come from the courtroom, but I doubt we will ever see a court order a more "fair hearing."

The 7-0 vote was made before Christiansen issued his order reflecting in his opinion UM screwed up the hearing. If the BOD upholds the ruling there will be a lawsuit against UM. JJ will then be gone, but its pretty apparent that UM will then be liable for damages. IMO those damages will be monetary, not the court ordering a "do over."

On the other hand the BOD can take notice of Christiansen's red flag that UM will be monetarily liable if they uphold the ruling, and so not uphold it. This appears to be the no-brainer decision, but I don't believe the BOD nor UM then have the authority to request a "do over."

Most of the cases I read where the court was involved in "due process of honor courts," lead to a "do over." Of course all we have heard is Paoli's side. One of the main complaints is that he was shouted down. The rules clearly state he could be present, but had no role or right to speak.

To expand on GoGriz96 comments as to Paoli's "side," Christiansen's order is not based on "allegations" or "arguments" made by JJ in a brief; its based on Paoli's affidavit setting forth the "facts" surrounding the hearing. The court then made its own legal conclusions based on those "facts." If Paoli's affidavit is not accurate Paoli will be personally liable for perjury charges and Rule 11 sanctions. Based on this I'm pretty confident that the "facts" are accurate, and like I said earlier the court has raised a red flag for UM (and the BOD) as to the court's position with regard to those "facts."

The only way this goes back to court at this point is a situation where the BOD upholds the ruling. If the BOD does so, the ball is back in JJ's and Paoli's court; and they decide what they will do and they have Christiansen's order to back them up. If you think about it, the person who actually wants the "do over" is UM, and I do not think Paoli will give it to them and UM (and the BOD) knows it. JJ will then be expelled based on the BOD order, and JJ will then sue for monetary damages which at this point appears to be pretty apparent that he will recover.

The BOD's decision is pretty easy but has big implications. Uphold the ruling and expel him, and be liable for who knows how much in monetary damages. Or not uphold the ruling and let someone off (like I said I don't think UM and the BOD can order a "do over") who is actually guilty, all because UM screwed up the hearing

I'm curious, what's the basis for money damages? It seems to me the only thing the University owes JJ is an athletic scholarship, which is revocable on an annual basis.

 

[Brock Landers]

His bio has been updated recently. Probably means nothing

Montana: Jordan will start for the second season in a row in 2012. He is already ranked 14th in school history with 2,444 career passing yards in one season as a starter.

 

[br fan]

I agree that the final say on whether JJ is expelled will not come from the courtroom, but I doubt we will ever see a court order a more "fair hearing."

The 7-0 vote was made before Christiansen issued his order reflecting in his opinion UM screwed up the hearing. If the BOD upholds the ruling there will be a lawsuit against UM. JJ will then be gone, but its pretty apparent that UM will then be liable for damages. IMO those damages will be monetary, not the court ordering a "do over."

On the other hand the BOD can take notice of Christiansen's red flag that UM will be monetarily liable if they uphold the ruling, and so not uphold it. This appears to be the no-brainer decision, but I don't believe the BOD nor UM then have the authority to request a "do over."

Most of the cases I read where the court was involved in "due process of honor courts," lead to a "do over." Of course all we have heard is Paoli's side. One of the main complaints is that he was shouted down. The rules clearly state he could be present, but had no role or right to speak.

To expand on GoGriz96 comments as to Paoli's "side," Christiansen's order is not based on "allegations" or "arguments" made by JJ in a brief; its based on Paoli's affidavit setting forth the "facts" surrounding the hearing. The court then made its own legal conclusions based on those "facts." If Paoli's affidavit is not accurate Paoli will be personally liable for perjury charges and Rule 11 sanctions. Based on this I'm pretty confident that the "facts" are accurate, and like I said earlier the court has raised a red flag for UM (and the BOD) as to the court's position with regard to those "facts."

The only way this goes back to court at this point is a situation where the BOD upholds the ruling. If the BOD does so, the ball is back in JJ's and Paoli's court; and they decide what they will do and they have Christiansen's order to back them up. If you think about it, the person who actually wants the "do over" is UM, and I do not think Paoli will give it to them and UM (and the BOD) knows it. JJ will then be expelled based on the BOD order, and JJ will then sue for monetary damages which at this point appears to be pretty apparent that he will recover.

The BOD's decision is pretty easy but has big implications. Uphold the ruling and expel him, and be liable for who knows how much in monetary damages. Or not uphold the ruling and let someone off (like I said I don't think UM and the BOD can order a "do over") who is actually guilty, all because UM screwed up the hearing

I'm curious, what's the basis for money damages? It seems to me the only thing the University owes JJ is an athletic scholarship, which is revocable on an annual basis.

The court has already "advised" the BOD that the hearing was unfair. If the BOD nonetheless upholds the ruling I think JJ has a great claim for punitive damages, without even getting into actual damages.

 

[garizzalies]

i didn't think punnies were recoverable against the state(?)