It starts with the O-line

[HighLineGRIZ]

Good post Born2b. Lots of good points, but probably the best one was reference to how complex OL play is. OL is possibly the toughest position to play on the team and in my opinion the most important. I never envied guys on the OL, they have a tough job and are constantly engaged in battle every play. I've always been a proponent for putting an emphasis on recruiting good linemen every year. UM has done a good job of that and it's one of the primary reasons we've been dominant in the BSC year after year. I can't think of a championship team at any level that didn't have a good OL.

 

[Spanky]

Northern Arizona smacked us hard from the very beginning of the game and we seemed to think we were playing Panhandle State. I think our offensive line stayed in Missoula. Yes, I did play OL, however, only in high school, but I would comment that the supposed strength of the Griz this year was the biggest weakness in the game.

 

[kemajic]

Northern Arizona smacked us hard from the very beginning of the game and we seemed to think we were playing Panhandle State. I think our offensive line stayed in Missoula. Yes, I did play OL, however, only in high school, but I would comment that the supposed strength of the Griz this year was the biggest weakness in the game.

The OL didn't cause the turnovers that put us in such a hole. I give a bit more credit to NAU's defense; they had a great scheme to take away the run and pressure JJ. They got a lead which made them even more aggressive and tougher. We should have had better offensive adjustments to what NAU was doing; the blame should not be localized to the OL performance.

 

[PlayerRep]

Actually as bad as they were they still only gave up two touchdowns and that was in the first half.
It still comes down to how bad the "O" line performed not giving any blocking for running and no time for Jordy to pick them apart.

Story of being and offensive lineman. Very little glory when things are going well and it all rests on their shoulders when things didn't go well. And all the time judged by individuals that do not know that there is so much more to being a good offensive lineman than sheer size. While I will admit the line played poorly and did themselves no favors by creating mental mistakes yet the 2 headed OC did them no favors in place them in no-win situations. In this particular game the NAU defense did not have to respect the run game, a blitz package and were able to Tee off on every play.

As you can tell, I am a long time participant of this board and read far more than I post. Most of you that know me, know that I am a former Griz Olineman also spent a couple years assisting in high school after my playing days were over. All that being said, I am unaware of the scheme the Griz are using up front. I'm not sure if the center is making the determination of how a particular play is to be blocked based upon the defense presented or how they are going about it. In fact, I doubt many of you making comments comprehend the number of variations of how a particular play can be blocked based upon not only the alignment of the defensive lineman but the type of coverage the defensive backs are in. I won't bore you with all the details about this again but suffice to say that three quarters of this board wouldn't be able to play offensive line at the FCS or FBS level even if they were 6 foot 8 and 315 pounds. There tends to be a reason why the offensive front has one of the better GPA's on the team.

In my humble opinion, what should have happened after the defense was able to play no holes barred we should have had a package very similar to what NAU was using. Many of you are failing to recognize that the package they were using made sacks nearly impossible as they were moving the pocket, running complete timing patterns and getting rid of the ball very quickly. It became very obvious to me that we needed to ditch the delayed handoff read type of running play because NAU was not allowing for it to work. I believe if we would've had some success at moving JJ out of the pocket, throwing timing patterns, bubble screens and such we could have caused NAU to be more respectful and thus causing to be more conservative. However, when they score 14 points on turnovers and already have a lead there is little fear in giving up an occasional big-play. Again I concede the poor play up front but it was exacerbated by poor playcalling and lack of adjustments to what was being done on the field. My bet is you will see a very determined line in the coming week and PSU will bear the brunt of their fury. In addition, I do hope to be able to come back on here next week and offer up yet another one of my few posts requesting that all of you that were so quick to blame the front will be as quick as to praise. But then, those of us that actually toiled in the trenches don't do it to be noticed by the fans, they do for each other and for their team.

Good post. The board could use more informative posts like this. I look forward to your next one. In listening to and watching Kistler on the coaches show last night, my impression was that he knew the o-line, and team, had not played well, but they were putting it behind them to move on, make some adjustments and improve every day. He seemed to catch himself at one point, and clarify that the scheme was fine. He was articulate and careful with what he said.

 

[spsyk]

Biggest thing to correct this week is getting our OL back on the same page.

As I walked into my office this morning one of my co-workers says to me, "It would have been nice if the O-line had let everyone else know they were going to take the night off before the game started." A strong point, and a major issue we saw unfold in that game.

This weekend PSU comes to town with the 2nd most sacks in the conference at 17 (MSU leads with 19).

Our O-line has to improve dramatically from their NAU showing and fast. As I look at the NAU stats there were 6 sacks and 11 recorded QB hurries. And while the stats don't apparently record this I'd guess there were probably 3 or 4 batted passes as well. So about 50% of Jordy's passing attempts were under some sort of duress.

I'm sure Scott Gragg is more upset than anybody. He's not going to be our next head coach if he doesn't show improvement from here on out. One game at a time. Go Griz!

Just maybe Scott is pre-occupied with his dual role of co-OC and offensive line coach,that he is overwhelm, or perhaps does not multi-task well.

Well, what ever the case it appeared that both cases failed Sat...meaning the O-line look sad, maybe due to a superior D-line of NAU, and the offense was not as effect as the Appy game, throw the other two games out, they were not even good scrimmages.

 

[Htowngriz]

Biggest thing to correct this week is getting our OL back on the same page.

As I walked into my office this morning one of my co-workers says to me, "It would have been nice if the O-line had let everyone else know they were going to take the night off before the game started." A strong point, and a major issue we saw unfold in that game.

This weekend PSU comes to town with the 2nd most sacks in the conference at 17 (MSU leads with 19).

Our O-line has to improve dramatically from their NAU showing and fast. As I look at the NAU stats there were 6 sacks and 11 recorded QB hurries. And while the stats don't apparently record this I'd guess there were probably 3 or 4 batted passes as well. So about 50% of Jordy's passing attempts were under some sort of duress.

I'm sure Scott Gragg is more upset than anybody. He's not going to be our next head coach if he doesn't show improvement from here on out. One game at a time. Go Griz!

Just maybe Scott is pre-occupied with his dual role of co-OC and offensive line coach,that he is overwhelm, or perhaps does not multi-task well.

Well, what ever the case it appeared that both cases failed Sat...meaning the O-line look sad, maybe due to a superior D-line of NAU, and the offense was not as effect as the Appy game, throw the other two games out, they were not even good scrimmages.

I really don't know what happened to the O-line (and offense in general) between the App St game and this one. They went from looking dominant, confident, powerful, pretty much any positive adjective you can think of, to just a complete mess.

 

[Born2BaGriz]

Northern Arizona smacked us hard from the very beginning of the game and we seemed to think we were playing Panhandle State. I think our offensive line stayed in Missoula. Yes, I did play OL, however, only in high school, but I would comment that the supposed strength of the Griz this year was the biggest weakness in the game.

You might as well as said you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express too. You simply cannot compare high school Oline play in high school and college, especially at the FCS or FBS level.

Listen, I'm not saying they didn't play like crap, I just saying there is more to it. Just like when I was in Law Enforcement, I would always marvel out of what the press had to say and what ended up in court. In most cases, there is almost always more to the story but because of people far smarter then I, not everything discovered can be used in order to present a fair trial. Once dealt with a guy on trial that was a dirt bag in which we found two large photo albums of grade school annuals pictures taken out and paired with snap shots he had from outside the school yard, but he wasn't being charged with be a child molester and was smart enough not to have anything on his computer, so while it would have shown how much of a pile of skum the guy was, none of it could be used. Sorry for the transition, but the point is that very few know the whole story and while I played years ago, I have been out of the game for so long I wouldn't try to tell you what was going on just from watching. The Griz found themselves in a hole and tried to get out by digging because in my opinion instead of being offered a hang out of the hole, they were given a shovel.

But then you also know that they say that coaches that listen to the fans end up sitting next to them in the stands.

 

[putter]

There is a lot of blame to go around. The last game, I remember, where the O-Line struggled this much was the NC game against Marshall. DD was sacked 11 times and Marshall (except for Lyons) D - Line was smaller but much quicker than Montana and brought pressure from everywhere. Anybody but DD and Montana loses that game by a lot.

 

[Spanky]

Born....I didn't suggest that I am an expert because I played high school football..only that I played as opposed to others. I do however, have eyes and the play I saw from the OL wasn't good, for whatever reason. In any event, I hope they play like their billing this week end. By the way, over the years, I've stayed at some decent Holiday Inn Expresses.

 

[rimrockgriz]

Actually as bad as they were they still only gave up two touchdowns and that was in the first half.
It still comes down to how bad the "O" line performed not giving any blocking for running and no time for Jordy to pick them apart.

Story of being and offensive lineman. Very little glory when things are going well and it all rests on their shoulders when things didn't go well. And all the time judged by individuals that do not know that there is so much more to being a good offensive lineman than sheer size. While I will admit the line played poorly and did themselves no favors by creating mental mistakes yet the 2 headed OC did them no favors in place them in no-win situations. In this particular game the NAU defense did not have to respect the run game, a blitz package and were able to Tee off on every play.

As you can tell, I am a long time participant of this board and read far more than I post. Most of you that know me, know that I am a former Griz Olineman also spent a couple years assisting in high school after my playing days were over. All that being said, I am unaware of the scheme the Griz are using up front. I'm not sure if the center is making the determination of how a particular play is to be blocked based upon the defense presented or how they are going about it. In fact, I doubt many of you making comments comprehend the number of variations of how a particular play can be blocked based upon not only the alignment of the defensive lineman but the type of coverage the defensive backs are in. I won't bore you with all the details about this again but suffice to say that three quarters of this board wouldn't be able to play offensive line at the FCS or FBS level even if they were 6 foot 8 and 315 pounds. There tends to be a reason why the offensive front has one of the better GPA's on the team.

In my humble opinion, what should have happened after the defense was able to play no holes barred we should have had a package very similar to what NAU was using. Many of you are failing to recognize that the package they were using made sacks nearly impossible as they were moving the pocket, running complete timing patterns and getting rid of the ball very quickly. It became very obvious to me that we needed to ditch the delayed handoff read type of running play because NAU was not allowing for it to work. I believe if we would've had some success at moving JJ out of the pocket, throwing timing patterns, bubble screens and such we could have caused NAU to be more respectful and thus causing to be more conservative. However, when they score 14 points on turnovers and already have a lead there is little fear in giving up an occasional big-play. Again I concede the poor play up front but it was exacerbated by poor playcalling and lack of adjustments to what was being done on the field. My bet is you will see a very determined line in the coming week and PSU will bear the brunt of their fury. In addition, I do hope to be able to come back on here next week and offer up yet another one of my few posts requesting that all of you that were so quick to blame the front will be as quick as to praise. But then, those of us that actually toiled in the trenches don't do it to be noticed by the fans, they do for each other and for their team.

B2B... Thanks for the details of the "o"line play. The bottom line though is that this is a "RESULTS" oriented business...very serious business. Peoples livelihoods are at stake as are many other facets of life. The complications of play are the same for the opponent as they are for the Griz. The strong will survive. I'm looking forward to driving to Zoo town this week to see if the Griz adjust and get their act together. I flew and drove a looooong distance last weekend to see a "$hit Performance. However, they'll have plenty of help from us NEZ crazies this weekend... :egriz:

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

Actually as bad as they were they still only gave up two touchdowns and that was in the first half.
It still comes down to how bad the "O" line performed not giving any blocking for running and no time for Jordy to pick them apart.

Story of being and offensive lineman. Very little glory when things are going well and it all rests on their shoulders when things didn't go well. And all the time judged by individuals that do not know that there is so much more to being a good offensive lineman than sheer size. While I will admit the line played poorly and did themselves no favors by creating mental mistakes yet the 2 headed OC did them no favors in place them in no-win situations. In this particular game the NAU defense did not have to respect the run game, a blitz package and were able to Tee off on every play.

As you can tell, I am a long time participant of this board and read far more than I post. Most of you that know me, know that I am a former Griz Olineman also spent a couple years assisting in high school after my playing days were over. All that being said, I am unaware of the scheme the Griz are using up front. I'm not sure if the center is making the determination of how a particular play is to be blocked based upon the defense presented or how they are going about it. In fact, I doubt many of you making comments comprehend the number of variations of how a particular play can be blocked based upon not only the alignment of the defensive lineman but the type of coverage the defensive backs are in. I won't bore you with all the details about this again but suffice to say that three quarters of this board wouldn't be able to play offensive line at the FCS or FBS level even if they were 6 foot 8 and 315 pounds. There tends to be a reason why the offensive front has one of the better GPA's on the team.

In my humble opinion, what should have happened after the defense was able to play no holes barred we should have had a package very similar to what NAU was using. Many of you are failing to recognize that the package they were using made sacks nearly impossible as they were moving the pocket, running complete timing patterns and getting rid of the ball very quickly. It became very obvious to me that we needed to ditch the delayed handoff read type of running play because NAU was not allowing for it to work. I believe if we would've had some success at moving JJ out of the pocket, throwing timing patterns, bubble screens and such we could have caused NAU to be more respectful and thus causing to be more conservative. However, when they score 14 points on turnovers and already have a lead there is little fear in giving up an occasional big-play. Again I concede the poor play up front but it was exacerbated by poor playcalling and lack of adjustments to what was being done on the field. My bet is you will see a very determined line in the coming week and PSU will bear the brunt of their fury. In addition, I do hope to be able to come back on here next week and offer up yet another one of my few posts requesting that all of you that were so quick to blame the front will be as quick as to praise. But then, those of us that actually toiled in the trenches don't do it to be noticed by the fans, they do for each other and for their team.

B2B... Thanks for the details of the "o"line play. The bottom line though is that this is a "RESULTS" oriented business...very serious business. Peoples livelihoods are at stake as are many other facets of life. The complications of play are the same for the opponent as they are for the Griz. The strong will survive. I'm looking forward to driving to Zoo town this week to see if the Griz adjust and get their act together. I flew and drove a looooong distance last weekend to see a "$hit Performance. However, they'll have plenty of help from us NEZ crazies this weekend... :egriz:

Im driving 12 hours to see this weekends game, and Im hoping to see a determined team on mission. I really hope they dominat PSU and get back on track to winning a big sky championship.

 

[bigforkgriz]

Actually as bad as they were they still only gave up two touchdowns and that was in the first half.
It still comes down to how bad the "O" line performed not giving any blocking for running and no time for Jordy to pick them apart.

Story of being and offensive lineman. Very little glory when things are going well and it all rests on their shoulders when things didn't go well. And all the time judged by individuals that do not know that there is so much more to being a good offensive lineman than sheer size. While I will admit the line played poorly and did themselves no favors by creating mental mistakes yet the 2 headed OC did them no favors in place them in no-win situations. In this particular game the NAU defense did not have to respect the run game, a blitz package and were able to Tee off on every play.

As you can tell, I am a long time participant of this board and read far more than I post. Most of you that know me, know that I am a former Griz Olineman also spent a couple years assisting in high school after my playing days were over. All that being said, I am unaware of the scheme the Griz are using up front. I'm not sure if the center is making the determination of how a particular play is to be blocked based upon the defense presented or how they are going about it. In fact, I doubt many of you making comments comprehend the number of variations of how a particular play can be blocked based upon not only the alignment of the defensive lineman but the type of coverage the defensive backs are in. I won't bore you with all the details about this again but suffice to say that three quarters of this board wouldn't be able to play offensive line at the FCS or FBS level even if they were 6 foot 8 and 315 pounds. There tends to be a reason why the offensive front has one of the better GPA's on the team.

In my humble opinion, what should have happened after the defense was able to play no holes barred we should have had a package very similar to what NAU was using. Many of you are failing to recognize that the package they were using made sacks nearly impossible as they were moving the pocket, running complete timing patterns and getting rid of the ball very quickly. It became very obvious to me that we needed to ditch the delayed handoff read type of running play because NAU was not allowing for it to work. I believe if we would've had some success at moving JJ out of the pocket, throwing timing patterns, bubble screens and such we could have caused NAU to be more respectful and thus causing to be more conservative. However, when they score 14 points on turnovers and already have a lead there is little fear in giving up an occasional big-play. Again I concede the poor play up front but it was exacerbated by poor playcalling and lack of adjustments to what was being done on the field. My bet is you will see a very determined line in the coming week and PSU will bear the brunt of their fury. In addition, I do hope to be able to come back on here next week and offer up yet another one of my few posts requesting that all of you that were so quick to blame the front will be as quick as to praise. But then, those of us that actually toiled in the trenches don't do it to be noticed by the fans, they do for each other and for their team.

I agree totally. I said so in another thread with less detail. Well said.

 

[Born2BaGriz]

Rimrock, the intent of my post was not to indicate that they didn't play well or to offer up an excuse but just hope to enlighten a few that there was a lot more to it than just poor play. Agreed that we live in the success driven society but this is a game which is dependent upon the efforts of the entire team. I too am making the trip to Missoula for Homecoming and hope that across-the-board adjustments are made and that the Oline play significantly better. I hate to sound condescending and pull the" you just had to have played" card, but what everybody needs to understand as there is probably nobody harder on themselves or more concerned about their performance than the players. While playing is an unique opportunity and is not a right but a privilege, we have every reasonable expectation that these kids will do their best. However, some people just need to understand the time and commitment required by these players. I played almost 30 years ago now and it hasn't gotten any easier for these guys in fact I believe is gotten more difficult.

All that being said, I really think you're going to find that Saturday will be vastly different than last week and I will be the 1st to eat my serving of crow if I'm wrong

 

[PlayerRep]

RR, football at UM is not a "results oriented business". It is a game played by amateurs. It is important to UM in many respects, but it is more sport and amateurism than professional or business. As important as it is to some fans and to some at the university who understand the benefits of modern day sports to a university, it is probably much more important to the kids who play the game, and their families, as well as the coaches. On the other hand, those people know how to put the game, and sport in general, in perspective. Losing a game or playing poorly is not the end of the world, especially for those who are involved. They are disappointed, but they learn from their mistakes, move on, and try to improve for the next game. As JJ said in the paper today, all of their main goals are still in front of them and achievable. While they may or may not achieve them, I have confidence that they will. Go Griz!

 

[kemajic]

I played almost 30 years ago now and it hasn't gotten any easier for these guys in fact I believe is gotten more difficult.

An understatement.

 

[kemajic]

RR, football at UM is not a "results oriented business". It is a game played by amateurs. It is important to UM in many respects, but it is more sport and amateurism than professional or business. As important as it is to some fans and to some at the university who understand the benefits of modern day sports to a university, it is probably much more important to the kids who play the game, and their families, as well as the coaches. On the other hand, those people know how to put the game, and sport in general, in perspective. Losing a game or playing poorly is not the end of the world, especially for those who are involved. They are disappointed, but they learn from their mistakes, move on, and try to improve for the next game. As JJ said in the paper today, all of their main goals are still in front of them and achievable. While they may or may not achieve them, I have confidence that they will. Go Griz!

+

 

[albinogriz]

Actually as bad as they were they still only gave up two touchdowns and that was in the first half.
It still comes down to how bad the "O" line performed not giving any blocking for running and no time for Jordy to pick them apart.

Story of being and offensive lineman. Very little glory when things are going well and it all rests on their shoulders when things didn't go well. And all the time judged by individuals that do not know that there is so much more to being a good offensive lineman than sheer size. While I will admit the line played poorly and did themselves no favors by creating mental mistakes yet the 2 headed OC did them no favors in place them in no-win situations. In this particular game the NAU defense did not have to respect the run game, a blitz package and were able to Tee off on every play.

As you can tell, I am a long time participant of this board and read far more than I post. Most of you that know me, know that I am a former Griz Olineman also spent a couple years assisting in high school after my playing days were over. All that being said, I am unaware of the scheme the Griz are using up front. I'm not sure if the center is making the determination of how a particular play is to be blocked based upon the defense presented or how they are going about it. In fact, I doubt many of you making comments comprehend the number of variations of how a particular play can be blocked based upon not only the alignment of the defensive lineman but the type of coverage the defensive backs are in. I won't bore you with all the details about this again but suffice to say that three quarters of this board wouldn't be able to play offensive line at the FCS or FBS level even if they were 6 foot 8 and 315 pounds. There tends to be a reason why the offensive front has one of the better GPA's on the team.

In my humble opinion, what should have happened after the defense was able to play no holes barred we should have had a package very similar to what NAU was using. Many of you are failing to recognize that the package they were using made sacks nearly impossible as they were moving the pocket, running complete timing patterns and getting rid of the ball very quickly. It became very obvious to me that we needed to ditch the delayed handoff read type of running play because NAU was not allowing for it to work. I believe if we would've had some success at moving JJ out of the pocket, throwing timing patterns, bubble screens and such we could have caused NAU to be more respectful and thus causing to be more conservative. However, when they score 14 points on turnovers and already have a lead there is little fear in giving up an occasional big-play. Again I concede the poor play up front but it was exacerbated by poor playcalling and lack of adjustments to what was being done on the field. My bet is you will see a very determined line in the coming week and PSU will bear the brunt of their fury. In addition, I do hope to be able to come back on here next week and offer up yet another one of my few posts requesting that all of you that were so quick to blame the front will be as quick as to praise. But then, those of us that actually toiled in the trenches don't do it to be noticed by the fans, they do for each other and for their team.

Good post. The board could use more informative posts like this. I look forward to your next one. In listening to and watching Kistler on the coaches show last night, my impression was that he knew the o-line, and team, had not played well, but they were putting it behind them to move on, make some adjustments and improve every day. He seemed to catch himself at one point, and clarify that the scheme was fine. He was articulate and careful with what he said.[/quote]
Ya, I caught that too. I just hope "Born2BaGriz" is right and we see an extremely determined O-line effort this Sat.
By the way great insight by him as well and hope to see more... :clap:

 

[RobGriz]

RR, football at UM is not a "results oriented business". It is a game played by amateurs. It is important to UM in many respects, but it is more sport and amateurism than professional or business. As important as it is to some fans and to some at the university who understand the benefits of modern day sports to a university, it is probably much more important to the kids who play the game, and their families, as well as the coaches. On the other hand, those people know how to put the game, and sport in general, in perspective. Losing a game or playing poorly is not the end of the world, especially for those who are involved. They are disappointed, but they learn from their mistakes, move on, and try to improve for the next game. As JJ said in the paper today, all of their main goals are still in front of them and achievable. While they may or may not achieve them, I have confidence that they will. Go Griz!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I may not agree with you a lot, but that's exactly right! No one feels worse about that loss than that group of young men.