Is undercutting Griz wins a sign of

[Mousegriz]

You selectively use irrelevant data points to support your argument, and then make a baseless assumption.

You conveniently left out the fact that in year one of BH 2.0 the 2018 team was 6-5, lost to the Cats, and missed the playoffs.

It’s not suprising at all that the team improved in 2019 — when the core group of players Stitt recruited (McGee, Toure, Akem, Calhoun, etc.) were sophmores and juniors. Plus they had Buck Buchanan winner Olson on defense (who was actually a Delaney recruit). Though that team also lost to State that season, the first of BH2.0’s two humiliating losses in Bozeman.

You’re also assuming that if Stitt had been alllowed to continue with his rebuild that his teams in 2018 and 2019 wouldn’t have improved from 2017. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that a Griz team, with Jensen (a freshman all-American QB) and the core group having another two years of experience in the same system,, wouldn’t continue to grow and improve under Stitt.

Another detail that is often ignore here is that Stitt’s rebuilding process took time because it relied primarily on recruitng and developoing high school graduates rather than transfer portal guys. Plus the Griz program still didn’t have all of its scholarships available because of the self-imposed santions prior to Stitt’s arrival.

And for comparison, look at the rebuilding process that started in Bozeman in 2016 when they hired Choate. His record wasn’t that great in the first few seasons either, but they didn’t run him out of town. They supported him during his rebuilding efforts and that decision has paid huge dividends for that program. Meanwhile, the Montana program is bascially back to what it was under Delaney.

For some reason, that doesn’t seem to bother the cult of Hauck.

Everything in my post was fact. Everything in your post is speculation. Stitt’s teams were going backwards. Fact.

Your posts have been inconsistent. Some say Griz were 14th at end of last year....others 15th. Since this is "your mantra" for the past few months which one is it? 14 or 15? 14 or 15? 14 sure has a lot better ring to it.

We're #14 or #15! We're #14 or #15! Go Griz Go! Go Griz Go!

 

[ordigger]

Hauck brought the team from from no. 33 and no playoffs, to nos. 6, 6 and 15 and playoff wins in years 2, 3 and 4.

You selectively use irrelevant data points to support your argument, and then make a baseless assumption.

You conveniently left out the fact that in year one of BH 2.0 the 2018 team was 6-5, lost to the Cats, and missed the playoffs.

It’s not suprising at all that the team improved in 2019 — when the core group of players Stitt recruited (McGee, Toure, Akem, Calhoun, etc.) were sophmores and juniors. Plus they had Buck Buchanan winner Olson on defense (who was actually a Delaney recruit). Though that team also lost to State that season, the first of BH2.0’s two humiliating losses in Bozeman.

You’re also assuming that if Stitt had been alllowed to continue with his rebuild that his teams in 2018 and 2019 wouldn’t have improved from 2017. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that a Griz team, with Jensen (a freshman all-American QB) and the core group having another two years of experience in the same system,, wouldn’t continue to grow and improve under Stitt.

Another detail that is often ignore here is that Stitt’s rebuilding process took time because it relied primarily on recruitng and developoing high school graduates rather than transfer portal guys. Plus the Griz program still didn’t have all of its scholarships available because of the self-imposed santions prior to Stitt’s arrival.

And for comparison, look at the rebuilding process that started in Bozeman in 2016 when they hired Choate. His record wasn’t that great in the first few seasons either, but they didn’t run him out of town. They supported him during his rebuilding efforts and that decision has paid huge dividends for that program. Meanwhile, the Montana program is bascially back to what it was under Delaney.

For some reason, that doesn’t seem to bother the cult of Hauck.

Good post. I agree with much of what you say. My personal opinion is that Stitt’s team would’ve been better than Haucks’s 6-5 team simply because players were recruited for his style of coaching. My opinion, although not popular, is that Stitt could very well be coaching the Griz today had he gotten that 4th year.

Of course it’s all speculation and nobody will ever know. Neither the haters or the supporters know with any certainty how the team would’ve played under Stitt in that 4th year. For anyone it’s simply an opinion, that is speculative and not based in facts. Projecting how a team would do year to year is also speculation; and opinions vary.

I do know his coaching staff was better than many gave them credit for, and some of gone on to better and brighter things, like Jason Semore. I also believe that the Montana experience ruined Stitt’s love of coaching, as he never appeared to be the same after that.

 

[ordigger]

You selectively use irrelevant data points to support your argument, and then make a baseless assumption.

You conveniently left out the fact that in year one of BH 2.0 the 2018 team was 6-5, lost to the Cats, and missed the playoffs.

It’s not suprising at all that the team improved in 2019 — when the core group of players Stitt recruited (McGee, Toure, Akem, Calhoun, etc.) were sophmores and juniors. Plus they had Buck Buchanan winner Olson on defense (who was actually a Delaney recruit). Though that team also lost to State that season, the first of BH2.0’s two humiliating losses in Bozeman.

You’re also assuming that if Stitt had been alllowed to continue with his rebuild that his teams in 2018 and 2019 wouldn’t have improved from 2017. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that a Griz team, with Jensen (a freshman all-American QB) and the core group having another two years of experience in the same system,, wouldn’t continue to grow and improve under Stitt.

Another detail that is often ignore here is that Stitt’s rebuilding process took time because it relied primarily on recruitng and developoing high school graduates rather than transfer portal guys. Plus the Griz program still didn’t have all of its scholarships available because of the self-imposed santions prior to Stitt’s arrival.

And for comparison, look at the rebuilding process that started in Bozeman in 2016 when they hired Choate. His record wasn’t that great in the first few seasons either, but they didn’t run him out of town. They supported him during his rebuilding efforts and that decision has paid huge dividends for that program. Meanwhile, the Montana program is bascially back to what it was under Delaney.

For some reason, that doesn’t seem to bother the cult of Hauck.

Everything in my post was fact. Everything in your post is speculation. Stitt’s teams were going backwards. Fact.

Actually Stitt’s last team finished 7-4 and in 6th place his last year; an improvement over the 6-5, 8th place team the year before.

Also I would point out, that in your opinion last years team potentially could’ve won at least two more games last year had Lucas Johnson been healthy.

Using that same logic, and I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing - it is hard to not argue the same scenario in Stitt’s last year. If Reese Phillips had not gone down, it would seem logical that the Grizzlies also had a better chance of winning against EWU, Weber and the Bobcats. Two more wins with a healthy Phillips would’ve meant a 9-2 record, a seed and at least one playoff win. And no Hauck hiring.

So I’m not sure how that speculation be applied to Bobby’s team last year without using the same logic in 2017.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Everything in my post was fact. Everything in your post is speculation. Stitt’s teams were going backwards. Fact.

Actually Stitt’s last team finished 7-4 and in 6th place his last year; an improvement over the 6-5, 8th place team the year before.

Also I would point out, that in your opinion last years team potentially could’ve won at least two more games last year had Lucas Johnson been healthy.

Using that same logic, and I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing - it is hard to not argue the same scenario in Stitt’s last year. If Reese Phillips had not gone down, it would seem logical that the Grizzlies also had a better chance of winning against EWU, Weber and the Bobcats. Two more wins with a healthy Phillips would’ve meant a 9-2 record, a seed and at least one playoff win. And no Hauck hiring.

So I’m not sure how that speculation be applied to Bobby’s team last year without using the same logic in 2017.

Huge difference. With Johnson going down, Griz still made playoffs and won a playoff game. Finished 14th. Stitt’s Team finished about 33d. Again, big difference. Phillips didn’t go down against conf champ on road and week before big Weber game on road. Hauck has won 10 games twice. Not Stitt. It’s not a close call. Stitt was a disaster off the field too. Many boosters didn’t like him.

 

[Spanky2]

Actually Stitt’s last team finished 7-4 and in 6th place his last year; an improvement over the 6-5, 8th place team the year before.

Also I would point out, that in your opinion last years team potentially could’ve won at least two more games last year had Lucas Johnson been healthy.

Using that same logic, and I’m neither agreeing nor disagreeing - it is hard to not argue the same scenario in Stitt’s last year. If Reese Phillips had not gone down, it would seem logical that the Grizzlies also had a better chance of winning against EWU, Weber and the Bobcats. Two more wins with a healthy Phillips would’ve meant a 9-2 record, a seed and at least one playoff win. And no Hauck hiring.

So I’m not sure how that speculation be applied to Bobby’s team last year without using the same logic in 2017.

Huge difference. With Johnson going down, Griz still made playoffs and won a playoff game. Finished 14th. Stitt’s Team finished about 33d. Again, big difference. Phillips didn’t go down against conf champ on road and week before big Weber game on road. Hauck has won 10 games twice. Not Stitt. It’s not a close call. Stitt was a disaster off the field too. Many boosters didn’t like him.

Why are they still talking about the little guy with the big ego and the green hat? Heard he is selling used cars.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Huge difference. With Johnson going down, Griz still made playoffs and won a playoff game. Finished 14th. Stitt’s Team finished about 33d. Again, big difference. Phillips didn’t go down against conf champ on road and week before big Weber game on road. Hauck has won 10 games twice. Not Stitt. It’s not a close call. Stitt was a disaster off the field too. Many boosters didn’t like him.

Why are they still talking about the little guy with the big ego and the green hat? Heard he is selling used cars.

I keep hearing this, and I'm not sure if maybe he did that for a couple of months or something. But Stitt is the Vice President of a data analytics and software company that focuses on sales performance. He's been there since the pandemic, so it must be going alright for him. I have nothing against Stitt as a person, and everyone should wish him well in life. We always say that once you are a part of Griz Nation, you are always a part of it. I know there were some hard feelings between people when he left, but I wish that guy nothing but happiness and success in life.

 

[IdaGriz01]

Why are they still talking about the little guy with the big ego and the green hat? Heard he is selling used cars.

I keep hearing this, and I'm not sure if maybe he did that for a couple of months or something. But Stitt is the Vice President of a data analytics and software company that focuses on sales performance. He's been there since the pandemic, so it must be going alright for him. I have nothing against Stitt as a person, and everyone should wish him well in life. We always say that once you are a part of Griz Nation, you are always a part of it. I know there were some hard feelings between people when he left, but I wish that guy nothing but happiness and success in life.

:thumb:

Could we just drop [that name] from any further posts? He's doing well ... OUT of football, and therefore so "ancient history."

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

You selectively use irrelevant data points to support your argument, and then make a baseless assumption.

You conveniently left out the fact that in year one of BH 2.0 the 2018 team was 6-5, lost to the Cats, and missed the playoffs.

It’s not suprising at all that the team improved in 2019 — when the core group of players Stitt recruited (McGee, Toure, Akem, Calhoun, etc.) were sophmores and juniors. Plus they had Buck Buchanan winner Olson on defense (who was actually a Delaney recruit). Though that team also lost to State that season, the first of BH2.0’s two humiliating losses in Bozeman.

You’re also assuming that if Stitt had been alllowed to continue with his rebuild that his teams in 2018 and 2019 wouldn’t have improved from 2017. There’s absolutely no reason to believe that a Griz team, with Jensen (a freshman all-American QB) and the core group having another two years of experience in the same system,, wouldn’t continue to grow and improve under Stitt.

Another detail that is often ignore here is that Stitt’s rebuilding process took time because it relied primarily on recruitng and developoing high school graduates rather than transfer portal guys. Plus the Griz program still didn’t have all of its scholarships available because of the self-imposed santions prior to Stitt’s arrival.

And for comparison, look at the rebuilding process that started in Bozeman in 2016 when they hired Choate. His record wasn’t that great in the first few seasons either, but they didn’t run him out of town. They supported him during his rebuilding efforts and that decision has paid huge dividends for that program. Meanwhile, the Montana program is bascially back to what it was under Delaney.

For some reason, that doesn’t seem to bother the cult of Hauck.

Everything in my post was fact. Everything in your post is speculation. Stitt’s teams were going backwards. Fact.

C’mon, you’re not even trying now.

Fact: The 2017 team had a better record than the 2016 team; they weren’t going backwards, they were a young team learning how to win (with tough close losses to EWU, Weber, and Bozeman)
Fact: Hauck’s 2018 team was 6-5 and had a worse record than Stitt’s 2017 team
Fact: Hauck lost to the Cats in 2018
Fact: Hauck didn’t make the playoffs in 2018
Fact: Hauck’s teams suffered humiliating losses in Bozeman in 2019 and again in 2022

You’re going to try and argue that all of those facts are speculation?

Feel free to disagree, but at least be honest.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Everything in my post was fact. Everything in your post is speculation. Stitt’s teams were going backwards. Fact.

C’mon, you’re not even trying now.

Fact: The 2017 team had a better record than the 2016 team; they weren’t going backwards, they were a young team learning how to win (with tough close losses to EWU, Weber, and Bozeman)
Fact: Hauck’s 2018 team was 6-5 and had a worse record than Stitt’s 2017 team
Fact: Hauck lost to the Cats in 2018
Fact: Hauck didn’t make the playoffs in 2018
Fact: Hauck’s teams suffered humiliating losses in Bozeman in 2019 and again in 2022

You’re going to try and argue that all of those facts are speculation?

Feel free to disagree, but at least be honest.

Fact: Hauck’s team suffered a “UNC” type loss to NAU in 2023. And may not win another game.

 

[cclarkblues]

C’mon, you’re not even trying now.

Fact: The 2017 team had a better record than the 2016 team; they weren’t going backwards, they were a young team learning how to win (with tough close losses to EWU, Weber, and Bozeman)
Fact: Hauck’s 2018 team was 6-5 and had a worse record than Stitt’s 2017 team
Fact: Hauck lost to the Cats in 2018
Fact: Hauck didn’t make the playoffs in 2018
Fact: Hauck’s teams suffered humiliating losses in Bozeman in 2019 and again in 2022

You’re going to try and argue that all of those facts are speculation?

Feel free to disagree, but at least be honest.

Fact: Hauck’s team suffered a “UNC” type loss to NAU in 2023. And may not win another game.

Stop trying to undercut Griz losses....

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

C’mon, you’re not even trying now.

Fact: The 2017 team had a better record than the 2016 team; they weren’t going backwards, they were a young team learning how to win (with tough close losses to EWU, Weber, and Bozeman)
Fact: Hauck’s 2018 team was 6-5 and had a worse record than Stitt’s 2017 team
Fact: Hauck lost to the Cats in 2018
Fact: Hauck didn’t make the playoffs in 2018
Fact: Hauck’s teams suffered humiliating losses in Bozeman in 2019 and again in 2022

You’re going to try and argue that all of those facts are speculation?

Feel free to disagree, but at least be honest.

Fact: Hauck’s team suffered a “UNC” type loss to NAU in 2023. And may not win another game.

We are going to win next week, but I attribute that largely to ISU being even worse than NAU and a group of young men that are going to show up absolutely livid after living with this loss for a week. After that, well, I'm going to stay hopeful. As I recently saw your boss used to say, its not a pattern after just once. I'm really trying to cling to some hope here.

 

[AZGrizFan]

Fact: Hauck’s team suffered a “UNC” type loss to NAU in 2023. And may not win another game.

We are going to win next week, but I attribute that largely to ISU being even worse than NAU and a group of young men that are going to show up absolutely livid after living with this loss for a week. After that, well, I'm going to stay hopeful. As I recently saw your boss used to say, its not a pattern after just once. I'm really trying to cling to some hope here.

3 of 4 games. Vastly underperformed. THAT is a trend. ISU (if we win) may be the last one of the year.

4-7 staring us in the face.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

We are going to win next week, but I attribute that largely to ISU being even worse than NAU and a group of young men that are going to show up absolutely livid after living with this loss for a week. After that, well, I'm going to stay hopeful. As I recently saw your boss used to say, its not a pattern after just once. I'm really trying to cling to some hope here.

3 of 4 games. Vastly underperformed. THAT is a trend. ISU (if we win) may be the last one of the year.

4-7 staring us in the face.

That is not wrong. Fuck it. I'm choosing "blind optimisim" at this point. Not like my opinion would make a difference in the program anyway, so I guess I'll just choose happy thoughts.

 

[Grizbeer]

We are going to win next week, but I attribute that largely to ISU being even worse than NAU and a group of young men that are going to show up absolutely livid after living with this loss for a week. After that, well, I'm going to stay hopeful. As I recently saw your boss used to say, its not a pattern after just once. I'm really trying to cling to some hope here.

3 of 4 games. Vastly underperformed. THAT is a trend. ISU (if we win) may be the last one of the year.

4-7 staring us in the face.

Exaggerating. Gonna beat Isu and no Colorado. PSu should be a win. It’s not that bad. Easily 6-5 after today. Don’t be a negative Nancy.

 

[Robsnotes4u]

3 of 4 games. Vastly underperformed. THAT is a trend. ISU (if we win) may be the last one of the year.

4-7 staring us in the face.

Exaggerating. Gonna beat Isu and no Colorado. PSu should be a win. It’s not that bad. Easily 6-5 after today. Don’t be a negative Nancy.

They aren’t beating Portland State, 4 D1 wins this year at best

 

[AZGrizFan]

3 of 4 games. Vastly underperformed. THAT is a trend. ISU (if we win) may be the last one of the year.

4-7 staring us in the face.

Exaggerating. Gonna beat Isu and no Colorado. PSu should be a win. It’s not that bad. Easily 6-5 after today. Don’t be a negative Nancy.

:lol: :lol: What, exactly, did you see last night that makes you so certain of that?? Jesus man…

 

[Butte5518]

BH's past success was his ability to take the leftover cake that someone else made, put some new frosting on it.... and pass it off as his own.... BH has no idea how to make his own cake that can win the top prize...

Who supplied the leftover cake that BH took to the natty in '08 and '09?

It was a little Debbie.... Those can last for years... But clearly BH has no idea how to field a winning team of his own...

 

[Bear Spray]

Imagine for a moment, that once upon a time, we hired a guy to bake a cake. A really good cake so we could enter it in a contest... bear with me on this one.

Now imagine the guy we hired said that the cake he was making needed to cook in the oven for 90 minutes before it was fully baked.

But then for some reason, maybe we were entitled or impatient or both, we decided that we wanted to win the contest faster. And so we took that cake out of the oven after only an hour and entered the unfinished cake in the contest.

Can you imagine how foolish we would sound when we started to complain about how the unbaked cake wasn't as good as the other fully-baked cakes?

Or how stupid we would sound if we started insulting the guy we hired by repeatedly saying he was a terrible baker because his unfinished cake wasn't as good as another guy's fully-baked cake?

In the end, we lost the contest because we were too short-sighted and impatient to wait for the cake to finish baking.

What's most tragic, is that the cake had amazing ingredients and would have won a lot contests if it had been allowed to fully bake.

But we were too arrogant, foolish, and stupid so we fired the baker and threw his unfinished cake in the garbage.

The End.

Well, when you have a chef who's fakes it till he bakes it, you get fake cake. Bad hires have set this program back a decade & the only way out is to tear it down and build it the right way. That takes time, patience, & competent committed coaches. Griz Nation's been patient and the staff's had plenty of time. What was the third thing needed again...?

 

[MiningCityGrizFan]

Well, when you have a chef who's fakes it till he bakes it, you get fake cake. Bad hires have set this program back a decade & the only way out is to tear it down and build it the right way. That takes time, patience, & competent committed coaches. Griz Nation's been patient and the staff's had plenty of time. What was the third thing needed again...?

First, You messed up editing the quote tags and in your reply.

Second, you’re demonstrating exactly why no decent up-and-coming coach would come to Montana. Stitt faked his way into being the head football coach at UM?

That’s just dumb.

You’re partially right though in that the program is in need of a rebuilld. When it comes to Stitt though, for some reason, fans like you either don’t understand or won’t admt that Stitt was doing exactly that. He was in the midle of a rebuild when his contrat wasn’t renewed after the 2017 season.

Stitt turned over the roster and shaked up the coaching staff after the 2015 season. And he was rebuilding the program primarily by recruiting out of high school. That takes time, especially considering he didn’t have all the scholarships to work with when he started.

And it was exicting to see the players he was bringing in (Gresch Jensen, Samori Toure, Sammy Akem, etc.). And yes, 2016 was difficult, but 2017 was better. You could see a young team working through adveristy (losing Phillips to career ending injury) and learning to compete (losing close games late to EWU, Weber, and State).

But people like you who are calling for a rebuild now won’t acknowledge the rebuild that was taking place back then. Instead, you throw out petty insults and make insulting personal attacks.

Which is all well and good, but then ask yourself — If you were an up and coming college football coach, why on earth would you uproot your family and leave a good job as a D1 coordinator or a D2 head coach to risk your entire career trying to rebuild a program like Montana’s?

The administration and boosters demonstrated they have zero loyalty. And “the greatest fans in the FCS” will jump on-line and social media to attack you personally because they think they know more about football.

So why would you come here?

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Well, when you have a chef who's fakes it till he bakes it, you get fake cake. Bad hires have set this program back a decade & the only way out is to tear it down and build it the right way. That takes time, patience, & competent committed coaches. Griz Nation's been patient and the staff's had plenty of time. What was the third thing needed again...?

The administration and boosters demonstrated they have zero loyalty. And “the greatest fans in the FCS” will jump on-line and social media to attack you personally because they think they know more about football.

So why would you come here?

I am amazed how many people say this is an amazing job, while simultaneously eating our own. Posting angry, negative takes on a message board is not going to make any difference in the team. Just like some fans remaining hopeful on a message board isn't going to actually make a difference. But the anger and viciousness isn't a great look for us.