Is the Big Sky Really Better???

[thirdandlong]

Nice try. Looking at total wins give a false impression of success. While other Big Sky teams are losing their pre-conference games to FBS teams in money games, or solid FCS teams played on the road, we are beating-up Division II teams at home to pad our record. Might wanna look at our conference record over that time span. There is a reason Bobby's teams have not finished higher than #3 in the conference........... it is because they win fewer conference games than other teams.

You might want to look at playoff wins over the period. UM has 2 more than SS. UM won its game over UW during that period. UM also played Oregon. What other Big Sky team beat an FBS team during that period? How many D-II's did UM play during that period? 1, at most? Dixie St. began transitioning to D-I in 2020. UM has played multiple Missouri Valley teams during that period, probably more than any other conference team. The MV is not D-II, in case you don't know. UM has been more consistent during that period that most, but not all, Big Sky teams.

Why don't you try sticking to the facts instead of making up stuff and lying all the time?

I love facts...... such as finishing 5th and 6th in the Big Sky conference. Is that enough "facts" for ya, Mr. Embellishment?

 

[thirdandlong]

I don't even read your posts anymore knowing they are just more whining and bitching....same broken record.

You obviously read this one. Nice football discussion, hack.

 

[SoldierGriz]

There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Montana is 17-5 against CPSLO so that stretch couldn't be much and I doubt CPSLO is high on Griz fan's fear list. They did win three in a row (two by one point) 2014-2016 so that must be your stretch. Woo-ooh.

During that stretch Poly was 7-5 twice, and had a 4-7 record (8th in the conference) once. Those losses were bad and gut-wrenching. But, evidence that even mid to lower tiered teams could bite during that timeframe, which is no different than today.

BSC has always been tough...it is not tougher now. Different times, different teams, different playoffs, different scheduling...Griz have regressed more than the conference has improved wit large. Just my opinion - doesn't have to be yours.

But, you love you some mediocrity - woo-ooh...so fits your narrative.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I like this year's squad...and said nothing about them. Worried about the secondary and QB - assumed starter has very little game-time experience. Glad they are flying under the radar this season. I'm excited.

Playoffs are expanded...more teams in, including BSC teams. I actually think the playoffs are diluted now. Many, many teams get in who have zero business in the bracket.

Griz regressed as much as other teams in the conference progressed is my opinion.

Boise, Nevada, Idaho, Weber, NAU were always tough games back in the day. Cal Poly and EWU had years when they were very good or excellent. There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Today, it's Sac, Davis, cats, Weber....and...well that's it.

Just don't believe it tougher...as others do.

The conference isn't tougher now. That is just another lame excuse to explain why we aren't able to win conference games. And, it is perhaps a more lame excuse than using an injured QB excuse to explain a 30-point loss to the Cats and NDSU.

The conference is way tougher in recent years. Every knowledgeable football fans knows that. 6 playoff teams selected the past 2 years.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Montana is 17-5 against CPSLO so that stretch couldn't be much and I doubt CPSLO is high on Griz fan's fear list. They did win three in a row (two by one point) 2014-2016 so that must be your stretch. Woo-ooh.

During that stretch Poly was 7-5 twice, and had a 4-7 record (8th in the conference) once. Those losses were bad and gut-wrenching. But, evidence that even mid to lower tiered teams could bite during that timeframe, which is no different than today.

BSC has always been tough...it is not tougher now. Different times, different teams, different playoffs, different scheduling...Griz have regressed more than the conference has improved wit large. Just my opinion - doesn't have to be yours.

But, you love you some mediocrity - woo-ooh...so fits your narrative.

The conference is way tougher in recent years. Jeez, ask someone who actually knows.

 

[thirdandlong]

Bad question prompt by the Turdman. The BSC is definitely better at FB as a whole than it was all those years ago. Better athletes overall. To suggest otherwise would be like saying the PGA Tour isn’t as good now as a whole because Nicklaus and Watson aren’t on it. No, better players now and way more of them. I don’t think it’s debatable that the average CFB player today is better than the average player was 20-30 years ago. So, yes, the BSC is better now.

If Turd wanted to ask if the BSC is better relative to the Griz now, I think the answer is obviously yes, and I don’t think it’s due to us not getting as many FBS castaways. I think it’s due to the reasons in the first paragraph. More good players now.

As for the assistant coach. I envision the Turdman positing his unsolicited hypothesis in such great detail that homeboy finally just agreed so he could putt.

Grow up with the childish name-calling if you want respect as a poster. Why don't you try to explain the significant down trend for the number of Big Sky players drafted by, and playing in the NFL now versus 20 years ago. It is significant, and obvious to those of us who don't have our heads up our derrieres. The conference is much weaker now, and the overall quality of the Griz athletes is also lower. We used to have 2-3 former players in the NFL every year. How long has it been since we had one make the actual NFL roster (not the scout team)?

 

[thirdandlong]

During that stretch Poly was 7-5 twice, and had a 4-7 record (8th in the conference) once. Those losses were bad and gut-wrenching. But, evidence that even mid to lower tiered teams could bite during that timeframe, which is no different than today.

BSC has always been tough...it is not tougher now. Different times, different teams, different playoffs, different scheduling...Griz have regressed more than the conference has improved wit large. Just my opinion - doesn't have to be yours.

But, you love you some mediocrity - woo-ooh...so fits your narrative.

The conference is way tougher in recent years. Jeez, ask someone who actually knows.

ZZZZZZZZZ. Certainly not you!

 

[thirdandlong]

But, it amazes me some posters think the conference HAS TO BE better because the Griz aren't winning it.

Did someone actually say this?

Only Kem, Hoops, and several other sugar-coaters

 

[SoldierGriz]

During that stretch Poly was 7-5 twice, and had a 4-7 record (8th in the conference) once. Those losses were bad and gut-wrenching. But, evidence that even mid to lower tiered teams could bite during that timeframe, which is no different than today.

BSC has always been tough...it is not tougher now. Different times, different teams, different playoffs, different scheduling...Griz have regressed more than the conference has improved wit large. Just my opinion - doesn't have to be yours.

But, you love you some mediocrity - woo-ooh...so fits your narrative.

The conference is way tougher in recent years. Jeez, ask someone who actually knows.

I don't have to ask anyone. My opinion and observations are as good as many and better than most - far superior than yours. Facts.

 

[thirdandlong]

I have read all of the comments trying to justify why Montana is not dominating the conference like it did in the past, by saying that the other Big Sky teams have improved so much now. I don't buy this opinion for a minute! In fact, just the opposite is true. The other conference teams have a similar level of talent as always, but it is Montana whose talent level has diminished, placing us equal to other conference teams in talent level, rather than superior.

Here is my reasoning. During the days of dominance by Montana, we were able to add several impact FBS drop-downs almost every year. Most of these drop-downs had either been starters, or key back-ups at their respective FBS teams. Some came to us due to conflicts with coaches. Others came to us to secure a starting role, versus a back-up role with their FBS team.

Because we were the elite Big Sky team, we were able to get these key drop-downs above the other Big Sky teams. After all, if a kid wants to drop-down, why would he choose an average FCS team instead of an elite team like Montana? All of these kids desire to play on Sundays, and an elite team like Montana, which competes nearly every season for a National Championship, will give them the national exposure they desire, and their best chance at playing on Sundays. Thus, we benefited greatly over other Big Sky teams in adding key FBS-level talent, whitch allowed us to fill-out our roster, and plug deficient holes.

The result was a total dominance of the Big Sky, year-after-year.

This advantage is now history. We no longer are able to get these key drop-downs....... kids who were highly-recruited out of high school, kids who had either started or been key back-ups for their FBS teams. Just look at the Griz roster from the past couple of years following the employment of the portal. The FBS drop-downs we are signing have rarely ever played in an FBS game. If they actually played, they were buried on the depth chart of their teams. There are no more Rossums, J. D. Quinns, Chambers, Hendersons, Douglas, Ochs, Miller, et. al.

So, my opinion is that the Griz talent level has eroded down to more closely match the level of other conference teams, rather than the popular opinion that these other teams have upped-their-game to match Montana.

Please discuss or attempt to refute. Oh, by the way, this opinion is also the opinion of a recently-departed Griz assistant coach, whom I met on the golf course.

Good grief man, are you still playing the “Griz coach on the golf course” shtick? You’ve done that multiple times in the past and it’s complete BS every time. You were caught in a bold-faced lie during the Stitt era and a claim at MCC. Anyway, I digress.

You do bring up some debatable points. I remember Bobby’s press conference when he returned, and he was very pointed on “the Big Sky is still the Big Sky” when asked that question. He said it multiple times. Well, clearly it is not. Whether the Griz have gotten worse or the rest of the conference has gotten better is debatable, but it’s honestly a bit of both in my opinion.

We no longer dominate in state recruiting for sure, and you could argue that tide has shifted to blowsman. I also agree with your comments about drop downs, but I think a little of that has to do with Bobby’s reluctance (understandably so) to take a chance on a borderline character kid looking for a second chance. That margin for error just isn’t there this time around.

Anyway, I’m off to meet Pflu for a quick 9 so I’ll get his take on the matter.

That's B'S. about any bold-faced lie. Give the supposed accusation "facts", or STFU. I have played golf with many Griz coaches and players, including having Bobby in our foursome in a Phoenix Griz tournament during his first year as Griz head coach (with Miller Barber). I have played in foursomes with Delaney, Tinkle, Pflu (Polson golf club), Blaine Taylor, Krysto, and several assistant coaches as well as over a dozen players. You appear on here every few months to slam me. For what reason I have no clue. Then you always agree with my posts. Weak and pathetic, dude. What's your game here?

I have always advocated for you to post more, because you have always been capable of making observations without the sugar-coating. But you seem to have a hair up your butt for me, while agreeing with me most of the time. I never lie about anything I have posted on this site. I edited this post several times as I remembered additional coaches I have played golf with over the years.

 

[thirdandlong]

Please discuss or attempt to refute.

Your reasoning is sound, and plausible. Exactly what the reasons are is debatable. Several have stated their alternative beliefs. Predictably, there are those who just wont hear you out, or 'ignore' your posts. Pathetic. Surrounded by Yes Men, they'll never change, as they are incapable of change. You have explained your position(s) well. Well done. :thumb:

The years 2012-2017 gutted the Griz football program. I personally believe last year was due, in large part, to repetitive injuries at QB, and a large drop off in talent between #1 and #2, the resulting drop in TOP, and wearing out our defense. A one year aberrancy. I hope you won't stoop the the level of attacks on you that you have experienced in the past, which we both know are coming, then 'counter punch' with the same ammo. Don't let them suck you in. Stay above their level. Put the past 20 years of conflict with them behind you. It takes two to tango. :clap:

Thanks for the kudos. Their attacks don't bother me, because they have no ability to be objective, seeing everything through maroon-colored glasses. I know more about football than 90% of them, and it gets their panties in a wad if I dare to be objective about our football or basketball programs. Sad that they are unable to intelligently discuss athletics on an athletics discussion board, without resorting to adolescent name-calling. I will always defend myself, and just like Trump, I am an effective counter-puncher, which usually results in their whining to the mods to simply ban me, because I make them look so bad. Not many have the gonads to keep-up with me, so they cut-n-run.

 

[mthoopsfan]

The conference is way tougher in recent years. Jeez, ask someone who actually knows.

I don't have to ask anyone. My opinion and observations are as good as many and better than most - far superior than yours. Facts.

No they aren’t. Much of what you post is wrong.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Did someone actually say this?

Only Kem, Hoops, and several other sugar-coaters

No one ever said that. Certainly not me.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Good grief man, are you still playing the “Griz coach on the golf course” shtick? You’ve done that multiple times in the past and it’s complete BS every time. You were caught in a bold-faced lie during the Stitt era and a claim at MCC. Anyway, I digress.

You do bring up some debatable points. I remember Bobby’s press conference when he returned, and he was very pointed on “the Big Sky is still the Big Sky” when asked that question. He said it multiple times. Well, clearly it is not. Whether the Griz have gotten worse or the rest of the conference has gotten better is debatable, but it’s honestly a bit of both in my opinion.

We no longer dominate in state recruiting for sure, and you could argue that tide has shifted to blowsman. I also agree with your comments about drop downs, but I think a little of that has to do with Bobby’s reluctance (understandably so) to take a chance on a borderline character kid looking for a second chance. That margin for error just isn’t there this time around.

Anyway, I’m off to meet Pflu for a quick 9 so I’ll get his take on the matter.

That's B'S. about any bold-faced lie. Give the supposed accusation "facts", or STFU. I have played golf with many Griz coaches and players, including having Bobby in our foursome in a Phoenix Griz tournament during his first year as Griz head coach (with Miller Barber). I have played in foursomes with Delaney, Tinkle, Pflu (Polson golf club), Blaine Taylor, Krysto, and several assistant coaches as well as over a dozen players. You appear on here every few months to slam me. For what reason I have no clue. Then you always agree with my posts. Weak and pathetic, dude. What's your game here?

I have always advocated for you to post more, because you have always been capable of making observations without the sugar-coating. But you seem to have a hair up your butt for me, while agreeing with me most of the time. I never lie about anything I have posted on this site. I edited this post several times as I remembered additional coaches I have played golf with over the years.

You lie or are mistaken in almost every post you make.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Your reasoning is sound, and plausible. Exactly what the reasons are is debatable. Several have stated their alternative beliefs. Predictably, there are those who just wont hear you out, or 'ignore' your posts. Pathetic. Surrounded by Yes Men, they'll never change, as they are incapable of change. You have explained your position(s) well. Well done. :thumb:

The years 2012-2017 gutted the Griz football program. I personally believe last year was due, in large part, to repetitive injuries at QB, and a large drop off in talent between #1 and #2, the resulting drop in TOP, and wearing out our defense. A one year aberrancy. I hope you won't stoop the the level of attacks on you that you have experienced in the past, which we both know are coming, then 'counter punch' with the same ammo. Don't let them suck you in. Stay above their level. Put the past 20 years of conflict with them behind you. It takes two to tango. :clap:

Thanks for the kudos. Their attacks don't bother me, because they have no ability to be objective, seeing everything through maroon-colored glasses. I know more about football than 90% of them, and it gets their panties in a wad if I dare to be objective about our football or basketball programs. Sad that they are unable to intelligently discuss athletics on an athletics discussion board, without resorting to adolescent name-calling. I will always defend myself, and just like Trump, I am an effective counter-puncher, which usually results in their whining to the mods to simply ban me, because I make them look so bad. Not many have the gonads to keep-up with me, so they cut-n-run.

How many D-II’s has UM played in last 3 seasons?

How often do you text Larry K?

How many times has Pflu stayed at my place at Flathead?

 

[SoldierGriz]

I don't have to ask anyone. My opinion and observations are as good as many and better than most - far superior than yours. Facts.

No they aren’t. Much of what you post is wrong.

What I post is the truth - which is why it bothers you so much and you follow me around the interwebs whining incessantly about it.

 

[mthoopsfan]

No they aren’t. Much of what you post is wrong.

What I post is the truth - which is why it bothers you so much and you follow me around the interwebs whining incessantly about it.

You are wrong about o-line, o-line coach, recruiting standards for academy athletes, Hauck, current strength of conference, and much more. You are the guy who has me in your avatar for much of a year, an admission that I had your number. You attend almost no games. You don’t know the coaches or players.

 

[SoldierGriz]

What I post is the truth - which is why it bothers you so much and you follow me around the interwebs whining incessantly about it.

You are wrong about o-line, o-line coach, recruiting standards for academy athletes, Hauck, current strength of conference, and much more. You are the guy who has me in your avatar for much of a year, an admission that I had your number. You attend almost no games. You don’t know the coaches or players.

You just can't quit me. I was dead-on balls accurate about everything you posted above. You should stick to things you know...I am a varsity poster here...now, do your job and bring me some water.

 

[mthoopsfan]

You are wrong about o-line, o-line coach, recruiting standards for academy athletes, Hauck, current strength of conference, and much more. You are the guy who has me in your avatar for much of a year, an admission that I had your number. You attend almost no games. You don’t know the coaches or players.

You just can't quit me. I was dead-on balls accurate about everything you posted above. You should stick to things you know...I am a varsity poster here...now, do your job and bring me some water.

You are a know-nothing and blowhard. Now, most posters know that. If u keep posting bad info and bad analysis, you will keep hearing from me. You aren’t tough enough to post on the internet.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Bad question prompt by the Turdman. The BSC is definitely better at FB as a whole than it was all those years ago. Better athletes overall. To suggest otherwise would be like saying the PGA Tour isn’t as good now as a whole because Nicklaus and Watson aren’t on it. No, better players now and way more of them. I don’t think it’s debatable that the average CFB player today is better than the average player was 20-30 years ago. So, yes, the BSC is better now.

If Turd wanted to ask if the BSC is better relative to the Griz now, I think the answer is obviously yes, and I don’t think it’s due to us not getting as many FBS castaways. I think it’s due to the reasons in the first paragraph. More good players now.

As for the assistant coach. I envision the Turdman positing his unsolicited hypothesis in such great detail that homeboy finally just agreed so he could putt.

Grow up with the childish name-calling if you want respect as a poster. Why don't you try to explain the significant down trend for the number of Big Sky players drafted by, and playing in the NFL now versus 20 years ago. It is significant, and obvious to those of us who don't have our heads up our derrieres. The conference is much weaker now, and the overall quality of the Griz athletes is also lower. We used to have 2-3 former players in the NFL every year. How long has it been since we had one make the actual NFL roster (not the scout team)?

How does one grow up with childish name calling? Does it become like “Mr. TurdAARP”?

The NFL has a finite number of teams with finite roster sizes. When we see an increase in the talent level and, more importantly, the number of players able to perform at that level, NFL teams don’t have to dip down as much unless it’s a true exception and a roster need. That’s how I would explain it.