Is the Big Sky Really Better???

[AZGrizFan]

Your reasoning is sound, and plausible. Exactly what the reasons are is debatable. Several have stated their alternative beliefs. Predictably, there are those who just wont hear you out, or 'ignore' your posts. Pathetic. Surrounded by Yes Men, they'll never change, as they are incapable of change. You have explained your position(s) well. Well done. :thumb:

The years 2012-2017 gutted the Griz football program. I personally believe last year was due, in large part, to repetitive injuries at QB, and a large drop off in talent between #1 and #2, the resulting drop in TOP, and wearing out our defense. A one year aberrancy. I hope you won't stoop the the level of attacks on you that you have experienced in the past, which we both know are coming, then 'counter punched' with the same ammo. Let them suck you in. Stay above their level. Put the past 20 years of conflict with them behind you. It takes two to tango. :clap:

Yup. You hit the nail on the head. So true. So obvious.

“The years 2012-2017 gutted the Griz football program. I personally believe last year was due, in large part, to repetitive injuries at QB, and a large drop off in talent between #1 and #2, the resulting drop in TOP, and wearing out our defense. A one year aberrancy.”

One could argue that last year was the perfect storm: a brutal schedule (EVERY difficult game on the road) combined with critical injuries to key players at the absolute worst possible times. Requiring Johnson to play injured (because of no capable backup) led to several key turnovers that either a) eliminated a sure fire TD or gave the OTHER team a TD at the worst possible time.

Two things this year should improve that: a much more favorable schedule and a deeper (I believe) team across the board, with the exception of corners (more a function of “we as fans don’t know what we’ve got there yet”)…

 

[mthoopsfan]

Yup. You hit the nail on the head. So true. So obvious.

“The years 2012-2017 gutted the Griz football program. I personally believe last year was due, in large part, to repetitive injuries at QB, and a large drop off in talent between #1 and #2, the resulting drop in TOP, and wearing out our defense. A one year aberrancy.”

One could argue that last year was the perfect storm: a brutal schedule (EVERY difficult game on the road) combined with critical injuries to key players at the absolute worst possible times. Requiring Johnson to play injured (because of no capable backup) led to several key turnovers that either a) eliminated a sure fire TD or gave the OTHER team a TD at the worst possible time.

Two things this year should improve that: a much more favorable schedule and a deeper (I believe) team across the board, with the exception of corners (more a function of “we as fans don’t know what we’ve got there yet”)…

AZ, are you okay? You seem to have gained some religion.

 

[3-7-77]

AZ, the perfect storm included the #37 choice, the the delay/back pedalling of the choice/announcement until about this time last year. Seem like the season was set up for failure. If a television writer/screen writer wrote a proposal for a series of shows with this set of constraints/events, producers would say, "Naw, unbelievable, even if written as a comedy."

 

[AZGrizFan]

One could argue that last year was the perfect storm: a brutal schedule (EVERY difficult game on the road) combined with critical injuries to key players at the absolute worst possible times. Requiring Johnson to play injured (because of no capable backup) led to several key turnovers that either a) eliminated a sure fire TD or gave the OTHER team a TD at the worst possible time.

Two things this year should improve that: a much more favorable schedule and a deeper (I believe) team across the board, with the exception of corners (more a function of “we as fans don’t know what we’ve got there yet”)…

AZ, are you okay? You seem to have gained some religion.

I’m fine. Thanks for asking. :lol:

I just don’t sugarcoat EVERYTHING like some fans do. Doesn’t make me a bad guy or a bad fan.

 

[AZGrizFan]

AZ, the perfect storm included the #37 choice, the the delay/back pedalling of the choice/announcement until about this time last year. Seem like the season was set up for failure. If a television writer/screen writer wrote a proposal for a series of shows with this set of constraints/events, producers would say, "Naw, unbelievable, even if written as a comedy."

I think that had zero to do with what transpired ON the field. You get 100 people together in confined spaces for weeks at a time and you’re gonna have drama. Guaranteed.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Quite a few ways to measure this.

But, it amazes me some posters think the conference HAS TO BE better because the Griz aren't winning it.

There were some pretty talented BSC teams when the Griz were dominating...

It was also MUCH, MUCH harder to make the playoffs in those days, and yet the Griz had a hell of a streak getting in.

I don't think anyone has said they think the conference is better because the Griz aren't winning it. It's because there are a bunch of terrific teams in the conference now and the conference is bigger than it once was. More Big Sky teams are going to the playoffs. More BS teams are being seeded. More BS teams are being ranked in the top 20.

The BS has some very good teams in the old days, but the BS never had a half dozen top teams every year, or even any year.

Some of you try to say that Hauck hasn't been successful, but he has been. Playoff and playoff wins 3 years in row. Played 6 playoff teams last season, 4 of which were in conference play. That's never happened before. UM has the 3d most wins in the conference in the past 3 years. UM has the 5th best average post-season ranking in FCS football in the past 3 years. UM had a disappointing no. 14 finish last season, due mostly to Johnson being hurt.

The team looks strong this year. Look at what Forbes said recently: "we have a ton of guys on the offensive line. With the unique position we’re in bringing all five starters back, I think the whole unit is going to be dominant in this conference.”

“I think we’re going to be an explosive unit,” Forbes said of the offense. “I’m excited about how we’ve looked in the offseason during spring ball and through the offseason. Going into training camp, I expect us to be a really explosive offense this year.”

What's not to like about that?

I like this year's squad...and said nothing about them. Worried about the secondary and QB - assumed starter has very little game-time experience. Glad they are flying under the radar this season. I'm excited.

Playoffs are expanded...more teams in, including BSC teams. I actually think the playoffs are diluted now. Many, many teams get in who have zero business in the bracket.

Griz regressed as much as other teams in the conference progressed is my opinion.

Boise, Nevada, Idaho, Weber, NAU were always tough games back in the day. Cal Poly and EWU had years when they were very good or excellent. There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Today, it's Sac, Davis, cats, Weber....and...well that's it.

Just don't believe it tougher...as others do.

 

[3-7-77]

Depends on if you believe in luck, good or bad, omens, and all that sh*t. Gotta be able to point your finger at something, or someone. It makes one feel better. :thumb:

 

[3-7-77]

I still think yellin' at the TV helps my Griz. I'M A FAN! :lol:

 

[Flowtowngriz72]

Just look at the Big Sky record in the playoffs. I would say it doesn't look good. Yes Eastern and MSt lately have been good but not what the Griz where like in our heyday. I do think the conference is better overall but not as good as some people would like to think. Until there is multiple teams that have proven over and over that they can make deep runs into the playoffs. We are just the little brother to the Missouri Valley conference. And a little better then A10 since JMU moved up. Plus remember when where making our runs. App St JMU and many other teams have moved up. The FCS over all is not as good either.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I don't think anyone has said they think the conference is better because the Griz aren't winning it. It's because there are a bunch of terrific teams in the conference now and the conference is bigger than it once was. More Big Sky teams are going to the playoffs. More BS teams are being seeded. More BS teams are being ranked in the top 20.

The BS has some very good teams in the old days, but the BS never had a half dozen top teams every year, or even any year.

Some of you try to say that Hauck hasn't been successful, but he has been. Playoff and playoff wins 3 years in row. Played 6 playoff teams last season, 4 of which were in conference play. That's never happened before. UM has the 3d most wins in the conference in the past 3 years. UM has the 5th best average post-season ranking in FCS football in the past 3 years. UM had a disappointing no. 14 finish last season, due mostly to Johnson being hurt.

The team looks strong this year. Look at what Forbes said recently: "we have a ton of guys on the offensive line. With the unique position we’re in bringing all five starters back, I think the whole unit is going to be dominant in this conference.”

“I think we’re going to be an explosive unit,” Forbes said of the offense. “I’m excited about how we’ve looked in the offseason during spring ball and through the offseason. Going into training camp, I expect us to be a really explosive offense this year.”

What's not to like about that?

I like this year's squad...and said nothing about them. Worried about the secondary and QB - assumed starter has very little game-time experience. Glad they are flying under the radar this season. I'm excited.

Playoffs are expanded...more teams in, including BSC teams. I actually think the playoffs are diluted now. Many, many teams get in who have zero business in the bracket.

Griz regressed as much as other teams in the conference progressed is my opinion.

Boise, Nevada, Idaho, Weber, NAU were always tough games back in the day. Cal Poly and EWU had years when they were very good or excellent. There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Today, it's Sac, Davis, cats, Weber....and...well that's it.

Just don't believe it tougher...as others do.

“The Griz indeed won 28 games over the past three seasons. The only league teams to win more were Montana State (35) and Sacramento State (30).”

What's this Davis and Weber stuff? Griz have won more games than they have in last 3 years. And, SS has won 2 more games than the Griz in the same period.

Why can't people like you give the Griz their due and recognize that they have done reasonably well?

Conference is way deeper and better than it no has ever been now. Playoffs were expanded many years ago. I think Boise and Nevada won a total of 1 national championship.

 

[kemajic]

There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Montana is 17-5 against CPSLO so that stretch couldn't be much and I doubt CPSLO is high on Griz fan's fear list. They did win three in a row (two by one point) 2014-2016 so that must be your stretch. Woo-ooh.

 

[mthoopsfan]

There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Montana is 17-5 against CPSLO so that stretch couldn't be much and I doubt CPSLO is high on Griz fan's fear list. They did win three in a row (two by one point) 2014-2016 so that must be your stretch. Woo-ooh.

Yes, see there was a "stretch" of 3 years when the Griz couldn't beat Poly, even tho overall the Griz have clobbered Poly. There are other one-year "stretches" when the Griz couldn't beat certain teams.

The top 2 of the MV are better than the Big Sky, but the top 6 of the Big Sky is better than the top 6 of the MW, at least in recent years.

 

[brewskis]

I like this year's squad...and said nothing about them. Worried about the secondary and QB - assumed starter has very little game-time experience. Glad they are flying under the radar this season. I'm excited.

Playoffs are expanded...more teams in, including BSC teams. I actually think the playoffs are diluted now. Many, many teams get in who have zero business in the bracket.

Griz regressed as much as other teams in the conference progressed is my opinion.

Boise, Nevada, Idaho, Weber, NAU were always tough games back in the day. Cal Poly and EWU had years when they were very good or excellent. There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Today, it's Sac, Davis, cats, Weber....and...well that's it.

Just don't believe it tougher...as others do.

“The Griz indeed won 28 games over the past three seasons. The only league teams to win more were Montana State (35) and Sacramento State (30).”

What's this Davis and Weber stuff? Griz have won more games than they have in last 3 years. And, SS has won 2 more games than the Griz in the same period.

Why can't people like you give the Griz their due and recognize that they have done reasonably well?

Conference is way deeper and better than it no has ever been now. Playoffs were expanded many years ago. I think Boise and Nevada won a total of 1 national championship.

I think that the problem there is that “reasonably well” is just not good enough. We aren’t UCD or SS…we are the Griz. We shouldn’t be 7 wins short of any big sky team over ANY stretch of years, ESPECIALLY our rivals.

 

[mthoopsfan]

“The Griz indeed won 28 games over the past three seasons. The only league teams to win more were Montana State (35) and Sacramento State (30).”

What's this Davis and Weber stuff? Griz have won more games than they have in last 3 years. And, SS has won 2 more games than the Griz in the same period.

Why can't people like you give the Griz their due and recognize that they have done reasonably well?

Conference is way deeper and better than it no has ever been now. Playoffs were expanded many years ago. I think Boise and Nevada won a total of 1 national championship.

I think that the problem there is that “reasonably well” is just not good enough. We aren’t UCD or SS…we are the Griz. We shouldn’t be 7 wins short of any big sky team over ANY stretch of years, ESPECIALLY our rivals.

But that isn't the discussion being had. We've already had that one many times. Everyone agrees that reasonably well, last season, and having the Cats ahead of UM, is not good enough. Everyone.

This discussion is whether teams like Davis, Weber (and Idaho), have done better than the Griz in the past several years. They haven't. The wins show that. Even SS has won only 2 more games in the past 3 years than UM, and 2 fewer playoff games. The Griz and Hauck should be given credit for what they have accomplished. Some posters need to deal with the facts, and not their narratives.

 

[SoldierGriz]

I like this year's squad...and said nothing about them. Worried about the secondary and QB - assumed starter has very little game-time experience. Glad they are flying under the radar this season. I'm excited.

Playoffs are expanded...more teams in, including BSC teams. I actually think the playoffs are diluted now. Many, many teams get in who have zero business in the bracket.

Griz regressed as much as other teams in the conference progressed is my opinion.

Boise, Nevada, Idaho, Weber, NAU were always tough games back in the day. Cal Poly and EWU had years when they were very good or excellent. There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Today, it's Sac, Davis, cats, Weber....and...well that's it.

Just don't believe it tougher...as others do.

“The Griz indeed won 28 games over the past three seasons. The only league teams to win more were Montana State (35) and Sacramento State (30).”

What's this Davis and Weber stuff? Griz have won more games than they have in last 3 years. And, SS has won 2 more games than the Griz in the same period.

Why can't people like you give the Griz their due and recognize that they have done reasonably well?

Conference is way deeper and better than it no has ever been now. Playoffs were expanded many years ago. I think Boise and Nevada won a total of 1 national championship.

Dear Codger. Again - I did not say anything about the Griz or "they have not done reasonably well."

This is a thread about the conference wit large over time.

Please remove your CPAP, take your meds, and have a fiber-filled breakfast. It may help you post more precisely, and it will most definitely help you remove the stick from your back-side.

Thank you and good morning.

 

[thirdandlong]

I think that the problem there is that “reasonably well” is just not good enough. We aren’t UCD or SS…we are the Griz. We shouldn’t be 7 wins short of any big sky team over ANY stretch of years, ESPECIALLY our rivals.

But that isn't the discussion being had. We've already had that one many times. Everyone agrees that reasonably well, last season, and having the Cats ahead of UM, is not good enough. Everyone.

This discussion is whether teams like Davis, Weber (and Idaho), have done better than the Griz in the past several years. They haven't. The wins show that. Even SS has won only 2 more games in the past 3 years than UM, and 2 fewer playoff games. The Griz and Hauck should be given credit for what they have accomplished. Some posters need to deal with the facts, and not their narratives.

Nice try. Looking at total wins give a false impression of success. While other Big Sky teams are losing their pre-conference games to FBS teams in money games, or solid FCS teams played on the road, we are beating-up Division II teams at home to pad our record. Might wanna look at our conference record over that time span. There is a reason Bobby's teams have not finished higher than #3 in the conference........... it is because they win fewer conference games than other teams.

 

[thirdandlong]

Just look at the Big Sky record in the playoffs. I would say it doesn't look good. Yes Eastern and MSt lately have been good but not what the Griz where like in our heyday. I do think the conference is better overall but not as good as some people would like to think. Until there is multiple teams that have proven over and over that they can make deep runs into the playoffs. We are just the little brother to the Missouri Valley conference. And a little better then A10 since JMU moved up. Plus remember when where making our runs. App St JMU and many other teams have moved up. The FCS over all is not as good either.

Shhhhhh. You are obviously one of the mostly-silent lurkers on egriz who I have been speaking of........ the silent majority of Griz Nation who want changes in our direction, and who rarely, or never post here. By the way, I agree 100% with your post.

 

[thirdandlong]

Yup. You hit the nail on the head. So true. So obvious.

“The years 2012-2017 gutted the Griz football program. I personally believe last year was due, in large part, to repetitive injuries at QB, and a large drop off in talent between #1 and #2, the resulting drop in TOP, and wearing out our defense. A one year aberrancy.”

One could argue that last year was the perfect storm: a brutal schedule (EVERY difficult game on the road) combined with critical injuries to key players at the absolute worst possible times. Requiring Johnson to play injured (because of no capable backup) led to several key turnovers that either a) eliminated a sure fire TD or gave the OTHER team a TD at the worst possible time.

Two things this year should improve that: a much more favorable schedule and a deeper (I believe) team across the board, with the exception of corners (more a function of “we as fans don’t know what we’ve got there yet”)…

Even if that were true, how do you explain the other years of Hauck 2.0? I'm all ears.

 

[mthoopsfan]

But that isn't the discussion being had. We've already had that one many times. Everyone agrees that reasonably well, last season, and having the Cats ahead of UM, is not good enough. Everyone.

This discussion is whether teams like Davis, Weber (and Idaho), have done better than the Griz in the past several years. They haven't. The wins show that. Even SS has won only 2 more games in the past 3 years than UM, and 2 fewer playoff games. The Griz and Hauck should be given credit for what they have accomplished. Some posters need to deal with the facts, and not their narratives.

Nice try. Looking at total wins give a false impression of success. While other Big Sky teams are losing their pre-conference games to FBS teams in money games, or solid FCS teams played on the road, we are beating-up Division II teams at home to pad our record. Might wanna look at our conference record over that time span. There is a reason Bobby's teams have not finished higher than #3 in the conference........... it is because they win fewer conference games than other teams.

You might want to look at playoff wins over the period. UM has 2 more than SS. UM won its game over UW during that period. UM also played Oregon. What other Big Sky team beat an FBS team during that period? How many D-II's did UM play during that period? 0. Dixie St. began transitioning to D-I in 2020; UM played them in 2021. UM has played multiple Missouri Valley teams during that period, probably more than any other conference team. The MV is not D-II, in case you don't know. UM has been more consistent during that period that most, but not all, Big Sky teams.

Why don't you try sticking to the facts instead of making up stuff and lying all the time?

 

[thirdandlong]

I don't think anyone has said they think the conference is better because the Griz aren't winning it. It's because there are a bunch of terrific teams in the conference now and the conference is bigger than it once was. More Big Sky teams are going to the playoffs. More BS teams are being seeded. More BS teams are being ranked in the top 20.

The BS has some very good teams in the old days, but the BS never had a half dozen top teams every year, or even any year.

Some of you try to say that Hauck hasn't been successful, but he has been. Playoff and playoff wins 3 years in row. Played 6 playoff teams last season, 4 of which were in conference play. That's never happened before. UM has the 3d most wins in the conference in the past 3 years. UM has the 5th best average post-season ranking in FCS football in the past 3 years. UM had a disappointing no. 14 finish last season, due mostly to Johnson being hurt.

The team looks strong this year. Look at what Forbes said recently: "we have a ton of guys on the offensive line. With the unique position we’re in bringing all five starters back, I think the whole unit is going to be dominant in this conference.”

“I think we’re going to be an explosive unit,” Forbes said of the offense. “I’m excited about how we’ve looked in the offseason during spring ball and through the offseason. Going into training camp, I expect us to be a really explosive offense this year.”

What's not to like about that?

I like this year's squad...and said nothing about them. Worried about the secondary and QB - assumed starter has very little game-time experience. Glad they are flying under the radar this season. I'm excited.

Playoffs are expanded...more teams in, including BSC teams. I actually think the playoffs are diluted now. Many, many teams get in who have zero business in the bracket.

Griz regressed as much as other teams in the conference progressed is my opinion.

Boise, Nevada, Idaho, Weber, NAU were always tough games back in the day. Cal Poly and EWU had years when they were very good or excellent. There was a stretch when the Griz could NOT beat Poly.

Today, it's Sac, Davis, cats, Weber....and...well that's it.

Just don't believe it tougher...as others do.

The conference isn't tougher now. That is just another lame excuse to explain why we aren't able to win conference games. And, it is perhaps a more lame excuse than using an injured QB excuse to explain a 30-point loss to the Cats and NDSU.