Is Recruiting Important?

[uptopgriz]

Recruiting is the life blood of any program so Yes to your question. The problem is you are starting out with an incorrect assumption that Hauck is one of the best coaches anywhere which would include recruiting. In this stint he has about a .66 win/loss percentage. Now you could take his first stint and add in his w/l percentage at UNLV and I am guessing the overall percentage would be about the same although I am too lazy to do it. 66 % in a class room setting is a D but I imagine it is quite a bit better in coaching arena. Still he is a good coach and a decent recruiter but not anywhere in the catagory of NDSU. MSU is looking better from both a in state and out of state recruitment perspective. And times change and maybe the best of the best that are not FBS potential aren't that enthused to go to an 8-5 program. His retention rate is pretty good but honestly who off the '22 team could realistically go into the portal and have a better opportunity. Like it or not we are a .66 w/l percent program, much like we were with Stitt. Some will claim more playoff victories but I don't put much faith into a process that simply buys a first round playoff home win when seeded #24 but that is the NCAA's fault for having an f...........up playoff tournament. Go back to 16 seeded teams and see how many first round games you win seeded 16 and on the road. Winning the conference would almost guarentee a seed and home game but now some of the fan base say even this is unimportant and too much to ask of Hauck. I could go on and on about recruiting in the west vs. recruiting O and D linemen in the midwest but that will just fall on deaf ears just like this post will. I'm guessing we will be pretty much in the same conversation next year, especially if his contract is renewed before the end of next season.

Solid post. We have beaten the recruiting thing to death. But, after the early signing period, and after checking out the signings by the Bobcats, I can state with conviction that the Bobcats once again got more of the top in-state players than we did, and also signed a QB named Chance Wilson, who had 11 offers, including 3 FBS offers (Tulsa, Army, & Navy), as well as an offer from North Dakota State. In addition, they signed a DB from Texas with an offer from Michigan State.
Once again, we were out-recruited on paper by the Bobcats. Just a fact.

Cant logically argue against this point. Bobby would agree, on paper, the Cats had a great early signing period.

 

[Bok_Choi]

Really a topic for another 34 page thread. I'd say no. Because as you said, there really seems to be a struggle to recruit the talent needed to be in position to play for championships. Hauck is the guy in charge, the responsible party.

Not a struggle. Had the talent to go far this year. Derailed by a key injury and not enough at backup.

It must be incredibly exhausting... hopefully it's coming with some benefit.

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

The week of the Weebs game. The key injury wasn't in the game, but the not enough backup was. But surprisingly, this loss wasn't on the QB spot, injured or inadequate. They only managed about 140 yards of total offense, based on the fact that the O-line was nothing short of manhandled. Bozeman hangs 380 yards rushing on them the week prior, and the best they can come up with is handing the ball to another injured player in a poorly blocked wildcat strategy.

I don't fault the kids. Minus the few times they came out flat, they played their guts out. The problem was the overarching strategy of out-toughing the other team - that it was the most important element or factor in winning games. That strategy didn't secure a national championship the first go-round, and won't this time out either. But it will get a lot applause at the QB club meetings. So there's that.

 

[RoseyMustGo]

Not a struggle. Had the talent to go far this year. Derailed by a key injury and not enough at backup.

It must be incredibly exhausting... hopefully it's coming with some benefit.

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

The week of the Weebs game. The key injury wasn't in the game, but the not enough backup was. But surprisingly, this loss wasn't on the QB spot, injured or inadequate. They only managed about 140 yards of total offense, based on the fact that the O-line was nothing short of manhandled. Bozeman hangs 380 yards rushing on them the week prior, and the best they can come up with is handing the ball to another injured player in a poorly blocked wildcat strategy.

I don't fault the kids. Minus the few times they came out flat, they played their guts out. The problem was the overarching strategy of out-toughing the other team - that it was the most important element or factor in winning games. That strategy didn't secure a national championship the first go-round, and won't this time out either. But it will get a lot applause at the QB club meetings. So there's that.

Your comment about the players coming out flat resonates in the Bobcat game. I think it was very obvious, even from the two sidelines pre-kickoff, that the Cats players were stoked, and the Griz bench was dead in comparison. It continued all game, in my opinion. Which made me wonder how a Griz football team could possibly fail to be up for the Griz/Cat game. But that was how it seemed while watching it.

 

[Spanky2]

It must be incredibly exhausting... hopefully it's coming with some benefit.

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

The week of the Weebs game. The key injury wasn't in the game, but the not enough backup was. But surprisingly, this loss wasn't on the QB spot, injured or inadequate. They only managed about 140 yards of total offense, based on the fact that the O-line was nothing short of manhandled. Bozeman hangs 380 yards rushing on them the week prior, and the best they can come up with is handing the ball to another injured player in a poorly blocked wildcat strategy.

I don't fault the kids. Minus the few times they came out flat, they played their guts out. The problem was the overarching strategy of out-toughing the other team - that it was the most important element or factor in winning games. That strategy didn't secure a national championship the first go-round, and won't this time out either. But it will get a lot applause at the QB club meetings. So there's that.

Your comment about the players coming out flat resonates in the Bobcat game. I think it was very obvious, even from the two sidelines pre-kickoff, that the Cats players were stoked, and the Griz bench was dead in comparison. It continued all game, in my opinion. Which made me wonder how a Griz football team could possibly fail to be up for the Griz/Cat game. But that was how it seemed while watching it.

Especially, when almost 50% of the Griz roster are kids from Montana.

 

[AZGrizFan]

It must be incredibly exhausting... hopefully it's coming with some benefit.

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

The week of the Weebs game. The key injury wasn't in the game, but the not enough backup was. But surprisingly, this loss wasn't on the QB spot, injured or inadequate. They only managed about 140 yards of total offense, based on the fact that the O-line was nothing short of manhandled. Bozeman hangs 380 yards rushing on them the week prior, and the best they can come up with is handing the ball to another injured player in a poorly blocked wildcat strategy.

I don't fault the kids. Minus the few times they came out flat, they played their guts out. The problem was the overarching strategy of out-toughing the other team - that it was the most important element or factor in winning games. That strategy didn't secure a national championship the first go-round, and won't this time out either. But it will get a lot applause at the QB club meetings. So there's that.

Your comment about the players coming out flat resonates in the Bobcat game. I think it was very obvious, even from the two sidelines pre-kickoff, that the Cats players were stoked, and the Griz bench was dead in comparison. It continued all game, in my opinion. Which made me wonder how a Griz football team could possibly fail to be up for the Griz/Cat game. But that was how it seemed while watching it.

Another primary complaint about the Stitt-coached teams that got him fired. Players came out flat in a number of games. Saw it up close and personal in the loss to UNC in Greeley.

 

[Bok_Choi]

Your comment about the players coming out flat resonates in the Bobcat game. I think it was very obvious, even from the two sidelines pre-kickoff, that the Cats players were stoked, and the Griz bench was dead in comparison. It continued all game, in my opinion. Which made me wonder how a Griz football team could possibly fail to be up for the Griz/Cat game. But that was how it seemed while watching it.

Another primary complaint about the Stitt-coached teams that got him fired. Players came out flat in a number of games. Saw it up close and personal in the loss to UNC in Greeley.

The primary complaint was a contingent of upper-class men quit on him in year two. Fight, Unite, Win shows up as a result of hiring a consultant to teach him how to coach college kids. Not as catchy as RTD, but similarly effective.

 

[Ringneck]

Not a struggle. Had the talent to go far this year. Derailed by a key injury and not enough at backup.

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

I appreciate this post, but especially this part: If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them.

Starting an injured, tentative, LJ led to some slow starts, momentum killers, and early deficits that we were unable to bounce back from. I know that Kris Brown gets bagged on a lot on this site, and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this comment, but I do think a healthy KB would have been a better option than an injured LJ if he was given a game plan adjusted to his strengths and abilities (which I'm not convinced happened, but I don't know). And of course it took the coaching staff too long to see that Daniel Britt could outperform both of them (healthy KB and injured LJ), when finally given the chance.

If the team got "derailed" (as mthoopsfan says) - regardless of the reason - it was the coaching staff's responsibility to get it back on track as soon as possible. That's what good leaders do. The offense never really looked "on track" after LJ's injury - it looked like it just kept barreling off course without anyone driving it or giving it direction. And that's a leadership/coaching issue, not a skill/athlete issue.

 

[GrizMania]

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

I appreciate this post, but especially this part: If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them.

Starting an injured, tentative, LJ led to some slow starts, momentum killers, and early deficits that we were unable to bounce back from. I know that Kris Brown gets bagged on a lot on this site, and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this comment, but I do think a healthy KB would have been a better option than an injured LJ if he was given a game plan adjusted to his strengths and abilities (which I'm not convinced happened, but I don't know). And of course it took the coaching staff too long to see that Daniel Britt could outperform both of them (healthy KB and injured LJ), when finally given the chance.

If the team got "derailed" (as mthoopsfan says) - regardless of the reason - it was the coaching staff's responsibility to get it back on track as soon as possible. That's what good leaders do. The offense never really looked "on track" after LJ's injury - it looked like it just kept barreling off course without anyone driving it or giving it direction. And that's a leadership/coaching issue, not a skill/athlete issue.

Yep

 

[mthoopsfan]

Not a struggle. Had the talent to go far this year. Derailed by a key injury and not enough at backup.

It must be incredibly exhausting... hopefully it's coming with some benefit.

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

The week of the Weebs game. The key injury wasn't in the game, but the not enough backup was. But surprisingly, this loss wasn't on the QB spot, injured or inadequate. They only managed about 140 yards of total offense, based on the fact that the O-line was nothing short of manhandled. Bozeman hangs 380 yards rushing on them the week prior, and the best they can come up with is handing the ball to another injured player in a poorly blocked wildcat strategy.

I don't fault the kids. Minus the few times they came out flat, they played their guts out. The problem was the overarching strategy of out-toughing the other team - that it was the most important element or factor in winning games. That strategy didn't secure a national championship the first go-round, and won't this time out either. But it will get a lot applause at the QB club meetings. So there's that.

Happy to help you.

Said the injury impacted "season", not every game.

With a healthy Johnson, Griz would have beaten SS and Weber. That would likely have gotten UM a seed. Another week of healing for Johnson and team. Home game or games later in playoffs.

As I said, the Griz played poorly from the first play, and Cats played well, in that game. That one was probably just a lost cause.

With a seed, UM wouldn't have been playing Bison on road in round of 16. With a healthy Johnson, Griz would had better chance. The O and D were both off in second half, so maybe closer game but not win.

You are focusing on the wrong things. Teams don't need to win all games to have successful seasons and go deep in playoffs. Teams play great games, not so great games and poor games. Due to mostly the injury, UM lost too many season games and 2 tough ones I believe it would have won. I believe that at least some of Johnson's later smaller injuries likely came from playing at less than 100% and not having had enough quality practice time.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I appreciate this post, but especially this part: If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them.

Starting an injured, tentative, LJ led to some slow starts, momentum killers, and early deficits that we were unable to bounce back from. I know that Kris Brown gets bagged on a lot on this site, and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this comment, but I do think a healthy KB would have been a better option than an injured LJ if he was given a game plan adjusted to his strengths and abilities (which I'm not convinced happened, but I don't know). And of course it took the coaching staff too long to see that Daniel Britt could outperform both of them (healthy KB and injured LJ), when finally given the chance.

If the team got "derailed" (as mthoopsfan says) - regardless of the reason - it was the coaching staff's responsibility to get it back on track as soon as possible. That's what good leaders do. The offense never really looked "on track" after LJ's injury - it looked like it just kept barreling off course without anyone driving it or giving it direction. And that's a leadership/coaching issue, not a skill/athlete issue.

Yep

I don't know how the coaches "fix" an injured qb and find a better backup during the season.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Another primary complaint about the Stitt-coached teams that got him fired. Players came out flat in a number of games. Saw it up close and personal in the loss to UNC in Greeley.

The primary complaint was a contingent of upper-class men quit on him in year two. Fight, Unite, Win shows up as a result of hiring a consultant to teach him how to coach college kids. Not as catchy as RTD, but similarly effective.

No one quit on the team except Knight. There was no quit in the team.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Your comment about the players coming out flat resonates in the Bobcat game. I think it was very obvious, even from the two sidelines pre-kickoff, that the Cats players were stoked, and the Griz bench was dead in comparison. It continued all game, in my opinion. Which made me wonder how a Griz football team could possibly fail to be up for the Griz/Cat game. But that was how it seemed while watching it.

Another primary complaint about the Stitt-coached teams that got him fired. Players came out flat in a number of games. Saw it up close and personal in the loss to UNC in Greeley.

I don't believe the Griz were coming out flat. Just a few bad games-halves.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

I appreciate this post, but especially this part: If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them.

Starting an injured, tentative, LJ led to some slow starts, momentum killers, and early deficits that we were unable to bounce back from. I know that Kris Brown gets bagged on a lot on this site, and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this comment, but I do think a healthy KB would have been a better option than an injured LJ if he was given a game plan adjusted to his strengths and abilities (which I'm not convinced happened, but I don't know). And of course it took the coaching staff too long to see that Daniel Britt could outperform both of them (healthy KB and injured LJ), when finally given the chance.

If the team got "derailed" (as mthoopsfan says) - regardless of the reason - it was the coaching staff's responsibility to get it back on track as soon as possible. That's what good leaders do. The offense never really looked "on track" after LJ's injury - it looked like it just kept barreling off course without anyone driving it or giving it direction. And that's a leadership/coaching issue, not a skill/athlete issue.

Players play at less than 100% fairly often. The players, coaches and trainers make calculated decisions who to play. Risk of more injury? Is starter at 80% better than backup at 100%?

 

[GrizMania]

I appreciate this post, but especially this part: If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them.

Starting an injured, tentative, LJ led to some slow starts, momentum killers, and early deficits that we were unable to bounce back from. I know that Kris Brown gets bagged on a lot on this site, and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this comment, but I do think a healthy KB would have been a better option than an injured LJ if he was given a game plan adjusted to his strengths and abilities (which I'm not convinced happened, but I don't know). And of course it took the coaching staff too long to see that Daniel Britt could outperform both of them (healthy KB and injured LJ), when finally given the chance.

If the team got "derailed" (as mthoopsfan says) - regardless of the reason - it was the coaching staff's responsibility to get it back on track as soon as possible. That's what good leaders do. The offense never really looked "on track" after LJ's injury - it looked like it just kept barreling off course without anyone driving it or giving it direction. And that's a leadership/coaching issue, not a skill/athlete issue.

Players play at less than 100% fairly often. The players, coaches and trainers make calculated decisions who to play. Risk of more injury? Is starter at 80% better than backup at 100%?

true. Plus, coaches have to go by what the player tells them in regard to injury.
I had no problem with the Griz starter coming back after injury. ...but was worried that he was one hit away from being sidelined.

 

[GrizMania]

The primary complaint was a contingent of upper-class men quit on him in year two. Fight, Unite, Win shows up as a result of hiring a consultant to teach him how to coach college kids. Not as catchy as RTD, but similarly effective.

No one quit on the team except Knight. There was no quit in the team.

Too true! One thing about the griz that is second to none is their never say die attitude.

 

[Ringneck]

Yep

I don't know how the coaches "fix" an injured qb and find a better backup during the season.

That's not what I was suggesting. I said it was their job to get a derailed team back on track, not "fix" an injured QB or locate a better backup. I was suggesting that when it was clear there wasn't an easy fix, the coaches needed to exercise better leadership and inspire confidence through better preparation and decision making. Situations like this one are precisely when good leadership is needed the most. When a team is forced to change because of unforeseen challenges, a good leader will recognize that you can't become what you need to be by remaining what you are. That's leadership 101, frankly. It's not easy, but it's not complicated either.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I don't know how the coaches "fix" an injured qb and find a better backup during the season.

That's not what I was suggesting. I said it was their job to get a derailed team back on track, not "fix" an injured QB or locate a better backup. I was suggesting that when it was clear there wasn't an easy fix, the coaches needed to exercise better leadership and inspire confidence through better preparation and decision making. Situations like this one are precisely when good leadership is needed the most. When a team is forced to change because of unforeseen challenges, a good leader will recognize that you can't become what you need to be by remaining what you are. That's leadership 101, frankly. It's not easy, but it's not complicated either.

They did adapt and change. The hole was too big.

 

[Bok_Choi]

The primary complaint was a contingent of upper-class men quit on him in year two. Fight, Unite, Win shows up as a result of hiring a consultant to teach him how to coach college kids. Not as catchy as RTD, but similarly effective.

No one quit on the team except Knight. There was no quit in the team.

Another reminder that the ability to read and comprehend what was said is truly a skill.

 

[Ringneck]

That's not what I was suggesting. I said it was their job to get a derailed team back on track, not "fix" an injured QB or locate a better backup. I was suggesting that when it was clear there wasn't an easy fix, the coaches needed to exercise better leadership and inspire confidence through better preparation and decision making. Situations like this one are precisely when good leadership is needed the most. When a team is forced to change because of unforeseen challenges, a good leader will recognize that you can't become what you need to be by remaining what you are. That's leadership 101, frankly. It's not easy, but it's not complicated either.

They did adapt and change. The hole was too big.

If this is true, and the players they have recruited are not skilled and/or prepared enough to play FCS football, that once again reveals a shortcoming in their leadership. They simply don't do a good job of player development, and that should be the first problem they fix.

 

[Bok_Choi]

Help me understand what a key injury, without adequate backup, had to do with not being able to get off a block and make a tackle in the curb stomping the occured in bozeman? It was 41-7 when the key injury left the field, injured. If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them. Because they decided right after the key injury was signed, that they didn't need to find anything else to help anchor the most important room on any team. That's coaching incompetence.

I appreciate this post, but especially this part: If the coaches purposely sent an injured guy into a key game, it's on them.

Starting an injured, tentative, LJ led to some slow starts, momentum killers, and early deficits that we were unable to bounce back from. I know that Kris Brown gets bagged on a lot on this site, and I'm sure I'll get hated on for this comment, but I do think a healthy KB would have been a better option than an injured LJ if he was given a game plan adjusted to his strengths and abilities (which I'm not convinced happened, but I don't know). And of course it took the coaching staff too long to see that Daniel Britt could outperform both of them (healthy KB and injured LJ), when finally given the chance.

If the team got "derailed" (as mthoopsfan says) - regardless of the reason - it was the coaching staff's responsibility to get it back on track as soon as possible. That's what good leaders do. The offense never really looked "on track" after LJ's injury - it looked like it just kept barreling off course without anyone driving it or giving it direction. And that's a leadership/coaching issue, not a skill/athlete issue.

I do get what youre saying about starting a healthy QB. We'd disagree on whether or not that was Brown. The coaching staff put the injured guy on the field because they believed he was their best chance to win. None of the backups got substantial reps past the last week of fall camp. And absent the bubble, how many substantial reps did anyone get in the week prior to the NDSU game? I'm not sure they could have put anything together to suit any of them given the O-Line was always an up-or-down proposition week to week, which meant the running game was far from dependable. Britt was closer in makeup and skills to Johnson than Brown. So if he actually got in on the entire game plan, my belief is that he might have performed better in the only meaningful reps he got all season. Every other game was long decided by the time he got snaps.

We are in agreement about the coaching staff & leadership component. This offensive side of the team was without identity because they were always compensating for something. Not unlike Hoops.