Idaho football

[Guardiangriz]

Mark my words.. we will regress as a program if we continue to ignore the idea of moving up. You either grow or you die. And in collegiate athletics...it'll be interesting to see how colleges can continue to fund football that get 5000 fans to show up. (most of the big sky). I'm sick of sitting on our heals.

 

[GrizBacker04]

Mark my words.. we will regress as a program if we continue to ignore the idea of moving up. You either grow or you die. And in collegiate athletics...it'll be interesting to see how colleges can continue to fund football that get 5000 fans to show up. (most of the big sky). I'm sick of sitting on our heals.

I don't think UM is ignoring the idea of moving up. Why would they conduct a study regarding moving up if they had no intention of at least exploring the idea? Also, adding softball was a decision that was probably done partly with the possibility of moving up in the future.

The big hang up is, where is UM going to move up to? No invite, no moving up.

 

[grizindabox]

Mark my words.. we will regress as a program if we continue to ignore the idea of moving up. You either grow or you die. And in collegiate athletics...it'll be interesting to see how colleges can continue to fund football that get 5000 fans to show up. (most of the big sky). I'm sick of sitting on our heals.

I don't think UM is ignoring the idea of moving up. Why would they conduct a study regarding moving up if they had no intention of at least exploring the idea? Also, adding softball was a decision that was probably done partly with the possibility of moving up in the future.

The big hang up is, where is UM going to move up to? No invite, no moving up.

Just because you have not read about formal offers by conferences over the past 5-7 years does not mean that talks between UM and a conference have not happened. I know for certain that exploratory talks have happened, mostly initiated by the same conference several times. As for moving ahead, there is only 1 conference that will even be a possibility, or would even entertain accepting Montana...

 

[GrizBacker04]

Mark my words.. we will regress as a program if we continue to ignore the idea of moving up. You either grow or you die. And in collegiate athletics...it'll be interesting to see how colleges can continue to fund football that get 5000 fans to show up. (most of the big sky). I'm sick of sitting on our heals.

I don't think UM is ignoring the idea of moving up. Why would they conduct a study regarding moving up if they had no intention of at least exploring the idea? Also, adding softball was a decision that was probably done partly with the possibility of moving up in the future.

The big hang up is, where is UM going to move up to? No invite, no moving up.

Just because you have not read about formal offers by conferences over the past 5-7 years does not mean that talks between UM and a conference have not happened. I know for certain that exploratory talks have happened, mostly initiated by the same conference several times. As for moving ahead, there is only 1 conference that will even be a possibility, or would even entertain accepting Montana...

I know that there have been exploratory talks with UM by other conferences. I know that the MWC considered UM at one time, along with a variety of other schools during the time when it looked like the 16-team power conferences were going to emerge and teams from the MWC were going to be plucked, leaving a lot of holes to fill. But those talks were a long ways away from an invite, and were predicated on a lot of things happening. I know that because I was working at a MWC school during that time.

So what conference, in your esteemed view, is the only league that would entertain accepting Montana?

 

[grizindabox]

Currently, the Sunbelt is the only conference. In the past, the WAC was the only conference that was really interested in Montana, and were so on multiple occasions. The reason why there was no formal invites along with the talks, is that Montana had no interest in accepting and so the WAC did not offer.

 

[GrizBacker04]

The MW did have interest in Montana, but only if certain things happened. The WAC was very interested in Montana, especially when it became apparent that Boise State (and others) were doing everything it could to leave. But lets say an invite happened in 2010 (or even 2009) if you look at the three-year period for UM to get up and going, which I think they would have needed, they would have been joining the WAC this football season, right when it was dead...or in 2012, the last year of the conference.

It will be interesting to see if the Sun Belt really wants to expand beyond 12 football members, and if the league's president's would be behind that. Creating a western division would help Idaho and New Mexico State, but then you are adding more teams that take away shares of revenue when it comes to TV money, BCS money, bowl money, etc. Another thing to remember is that Benson was the commissioner of the WAC when it was a 16-team monstrosity, and the size of the league was ultimately its demise, as the western teams got tired of all the travel and such and split off to form the MWC. You got to think he would be hesitant to go down that road again. Even if it is just football-only on the expansion.

Also, what does UM/MSU offer the Sun Belt? No TV markets, no boost in new recruiting aread, it is a pain-in-the ass to fly into, etc. Now it is not like Idaho/NMSU are great additions in those regards either, but they were already FBS programs. If I am the Sun Belt I look to Sam Houston State, Richmond, JMU before UM and MSU.

 

[grizindabox]

I did not say that the Sun Belt does want UM, but outside of the Sun Belt, I do not see another option. I also am not clear whether Benson even wants to deal with UM again, since they burned him when he was with the WAC.

Honestly, I think UM is stuck where they are, a deteriorating Big Sky and FCS landscape.

 

[GrizBacker04]

I didn't say you thought Sun Belt wanted UM, just my thoughts on if the Sun Belt really would expand, take Montana, etc. You make a good point that Benson might not take UM because it left him at the alter last time

And yes, UM really is stuck where it is at for the foreseeable future. It is trapped by geography. Even maps have East Coast bias!

 

[KoolMoeDee]

Are there any NCAA conference rules that say the WAC couldn't add football teams in the future and still be an FBS conference ?

 

[Silvertip]

Are there any NCAA conference rules that say the WAC couldn't add football teams in the future and still be an FBS conference ?

Everybody needs to just eliminate WAC from their vocabulary - (and ditto for Idaho, whose circumstances are markedly inferior to Montana's in every respect.) With the addition of Seattle U and the University of Denver the WAC is setting itself up primarily as a basketball conference cloning itself as a West Coast Conference wannabee...Even if they could scrounge up enough football playing schools to satisfy the NCAA the Montana schools would be even worse off than if they had remained in the BSC - if that's possible.

 

[ordigger]

Are there any NCAA conference rules that say the WAC couldn't add football teams in the future and still be an FBS conference ?

Shipped has sailed on the WAC, they can't field I think its 7 teams this year so they lose their "eligibility" or whatever its called. A new league and a reformed WAC would start at the same point for football unless the NCAA granted some kind of waiver.

Everybody needs to just eliminate WAC from their vocabulary - (and ditto for Idaho, whose circumstances are markedly inferior to Montana's in every respect.) With the addition of Seattle U and the University of Denver the WAC is setting itself up primarily as a basketball conference cloning itself as a West Coast Conference wannabee...Even if they could scrounge up enough football playing schools to satisfy the NCAA the Montana schools would be even worse off than if they had remained in the BSC - if that's possible.

Denver is already leaving the WAC to join the Summit League on July 1 of this year. Only Seattle, Idaho and NMSU will remain for the current lineup. And Idaho leaves July 1 of next year (2014). The new WAC will consist of illustrious schools like Cal State-Bakersfield, Chicago State, Grand Canyon, Missouri-KC, Texas-Pan Am, & Utah Valley St. I think they are also hoping that Alaska-Anchorage makes the jump to Div I for all sports. Thats an ugly lineup and no hopes of competing with WCC at basketball.

 

[Silvertip]

Bringing aboard a barber college and a bartending school would at least allow WAC kids to have free haircuts and beer...they've gone recruiting the bottom of the barrel one better - looking under the barrel...

 

[kemajic]

Currently, the Sunbelt is the only conference. In the past, the WAC was the only conference that was really interested in Montana, and were so on multiple occasions. The reason why there was no formal invites along with the talks, is that Montana had no interest in accepting and so the WAC did not offer.

One talk with the UM president, past or present, or the BOR would convince a conference of a lack of growth ambition and cook any interest the conference may have had.

 

[kemajic]

What? I thought Doug Foolerton said it was only a matter of time before Idaho rejoined the Big Sky. Another swing and a miss for the conference commissioner. He's right less often than a broken clock.

He believed it just like he believed he had South Dakota. Loser.

When did Fullerton ever say it was just a matter of time before Idaho rejoined the Big Sky (for football)? I don't recall ever seeing that he said that. Can you provide a link?

Here are some links to article discussing what he did say about Idaho:

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/05/07/bmurphy/big_sky_commissioner_idahos_situation_top_fcs_healthier_bottom_f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/09/12/bmurphy/big_sky_boss_idaho_likely_be_member_201415" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for South Dakota St, it wasn't Fullerton who pushed for the addition of the SD schools. It was the presidents, or a particular new president of an important conference school. SDS required the approval of its regents, which required the matter to become public. That's when SDS got the offer they had been wanting all along, and went in that direction.

Feel free to carry on with your pre-conceived notions and fairy tales of what you think occurred.

Who ever even mentioned SDSU? Fullerton got caught with his pants down by adding UND while USD told him to shove it. He believed he had them both; instead he is stuck with a 13 team conf. and an outlier in UND. Believe what you want.

And where did I say that Fullerton said anything? You're the one living in fairy tale land without reading skills.

 

[PlayerRep]

What? I thought Doug Foolerton said it was only a matter of time before Idaho rejoined the Big Sky. Another swing and a miss for the conference commissioner. He's right less often than a broken clock.

He believed it just like he believed he had South Dakota. Loser.

When did Fullerton ever say it was just a matter of time before Idaho rejoined the Big Sky (for football)? I don't recall ever seeing that he said that. Can you provide a link?

Here are some links to article discussing what he did say about Idaho:

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/05/07/bmurphy/big_sky_commissioner_idahos_situation_top_fcs_healthier_bottom_f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/09/12/bmurphy/big_sky_boss_idaho_likely_be_member_201415" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for South Dakota St, it wasn't Fullerton who pushed for the addition of the SD schools. It was the presidents, or a particular new president of an important conference school. SDS required the approval of its regents, which required the matter to become public. That's when SDS got the offer they had been wanting all along, and went in that direction.

Feel free to carry on with your pre-conceived notions and fairy tales of what you think occurred.

Who ever even mentioned SDSU? Fullerton got caught with his pants down by adding UND while USD told him to shove it. He believed he had them both; instead he is stuck with a 13 team conf. and an outlier in UND. Believe what you want.

And where did I say that Fullerton said anything? You're the one living in fairy tale land without reading skills.

Kem, who said you said anything about Fullerton? I sure didn't. My comment was directed at the Fullerton comment embedded in your post. In any event, now you have said something about Fullerton. Yes, USD not SDS. Again, Fullerton didn't get caught with his pants down. He just did what the presidents, especially Engstrom, wanted. I know what happened. I had first hand information as it was unfolding. You obviously didn't and don't. You just want to live in your fairy tale world. Carry on in your dream world.

 

[ODU]

Are there any NCAA conference rules that say the WAC couldn't add football teams in the future and still be an FBS conference ?

A football-only WAC, separate from all-sports, can be resurrected. The NCAA bylaws say:

Before a Football Championship Subdivision institution may apply for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, the institution must receive a bona fide invitation for membership from a Football Bowl Subdivision conference or a conference that previously met the definition of a Football Bowl Subdivision conference.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

The Sun Belt Conference should be an FCS conference.

 

[TxGriz]

Also, what does UM/MSU offer the Sun Belt? No TV markets, no boost in new recruiting aread, it is a pain-in-the ass to fly into, etc.

Montana offers a state wide television market, much like Nebraska with the Cornhuskers being the only show in town. Montana offers a market of 900,000 plus that would follow either team. The stadium attendance makes a presentable appearance on television, except for the first half of the 3rd quarter. I think that is respectable for the league as a whole.

 

[MrTitleist]

The Sun Belt Conference should be an FCS conference.

Why? Their teams are a blast to watch, they're becoming more competitive, and putting fans in the seats. They're better than probably every FCS conference right now.

 

[kemajic]

Kem, who said you said anything about Fullerton? I sure didn't. My comment was directed at the Fullerton comment embedded in your post. In any event, now you have said something about Fullerton. Yes, USD not SDS. Again, Fullerton didn't get caught with his pants down. He just did what the presidents, especially Engstrom, wanted. I know what happened. I had first hand information as it was unfolding. You obviously didn't and don't. You just want to live in your fairy tale world. Carry on in your dream world.

Your "first hand information" is so reliable that you didn't even have the right school. It's pretty hard to believe that Engstrom would not want his former school in the conference and if you contend that a 13 team conference was the target all along it further amplifies the incompetence. Either way Fullerton is useless.