How to handle an arrest

[kemajic]

No, the quote didn't get him fired. The part about "character and tremendous moral fiber" certainly caught everyone's eye and the fact that he said that in the face of the what was going on made it come off as a shot back at someone. Pflugrad could've easily made his comment more generic. Had he just replaced "character and tremendous moral fiber" with "abilities" the quote would've gotten very little attention.

Well, Engstrom had cleared JJ to be back with the team, so in terms of the Student Athlete Conduct Code, Pflu was saying that JJ met the standards that we would like all student athletes to aspire to under the Student Athlete Conduct Code.

This is one of those "PC" lectures about how sports should NOT promote loyalty and support between coaches and players and between players and their teammates. Be careful in HOW you express your loyalty and support: dilute it, strain it, drain it of meaning, hide it and be embarrassed to say anything positive and meaningful, it could mean your job and career.

Engstrom's legacy.

Unusually difficult for Pflu in that situation, having watched JJ grow up and being close to his family. Pflu likely felt it was his duty to deflect the bogus crap that had been thrown at JJ. Pflu's loyalty (and lack of political savvy) cost him, O'Day and the program. Many victims. Pflu should sleep well at night nevertheless.

 

[getgrizzy]

I don't recall how it played out chronologically. Were the university court proceedings already over when Pflugrad made his comment?

This thing played out like an onion, in layers.

Under the Student-Athlete Conduct Code there was at that time a committee that would rule on alleged "code infractions" and whether or not they were Class I, II or III infractions, and the appropriate penalty. In this case, the committee met and agreed that JJ was not in violation, approved his return to practice, and Engstrom signed off on it. JJ was back at practice after that ruling when Pflu made his remarks in response to a question. Recall, Pflu knew JJ since he was a little boy. It was not just a passing remark by a coach about someone he had just known in a year or so of college football play. If anyone had a basis for what he said, Pflu did.

A separate proceeding under the Student Conduct Code (a separate code, with separate rules and penalties) was held some time later to determine expulsion. That was the proceeding taken over by Couture, over Aronofsky's objections, who imposed brand new "Show Trial" rules that would have embarrassed Joseph Stalin.

Was Pflugrad present at the university trial or was he aware of JJ's version of the events?

 

[PlayerRep]

Not applicable. Apples to oranges. JJ was never arrested. Pflu answered a question from a Missoulian reporter after a scrimmage, 6 or so weeks after the incident, right after JJ had been cleared by the 4-person (think it's 4) athletic dept committee to return to spring ball. Engstrom has also approved the committee's action. Pflu said the team/he was excited to have such a good leader return to the team, and JJ was a good kid.

How would you have answered the question or questions?

Here's what Pflugrad said:

“I think any time you have a person of Jordy’s character and tremendous moral fiber, and he’s your team captain and part of the leadership council, your players are going to be fired up,” Pflugrad said at the time.

Yes, I know what Pflu was quoted on. I posted it a week or so ago too. It wasn't said in connection with an arrest or a charge. It was said after a scrimmage. JJ was ultimately acquitted, never lost his schollie or kicked out of school, graduated, and got a settlement from UM. Doesn't seem that the quote was any big deal, and certainly didn't merit firing. Do you think it did?

No, the quote didn't get him fired. The part about "character and tremendous moral fiber" certainly caught everyone's eye and the fact that he said that in the face of the what was going on made it come off as a shot back at someone. Pflugrad could've easily made his comment more generic. Had he just replaced "character and tremendous moral fiber" with "abilities" the quote would've gotten very little attention.

Agreed.

 

[PlayerRep]

I don't recall how it played out chronologically. Were the university court proceedings already over when Pflugrad made his comment?

This thing played out like an onion, in layers.

Under the Student-Athlete Conduct Code there was at that time a committee that would rule on alleged "code infractions" and whether or not they were Class I, II or III infractions, and the appropriate penalty. In this case, the committee met and agreed that JJ was not in violation, approved his return to practice, and Engstrom signed off on it. JJ was back at practice after that ruling when Pflu made his remarks in response to a question. Recall, Pflu knew JJ since he was a little boy. It was not just a passing remark by a coach about someone he had just known in a year or so of college football play. If anyone had a basis for what he said, Pflu did.

A separate proceeding under the Student Conduct Code (a separate code, with separate rules and penalties) was held some time later to determine expulsion. That was the proceeding taken over by Couture, over Aronofsky's objections, who imposed brand new "Show Trial" rules that would have embarrassed Joseph Stalin.

Was Pflugrad present at the university trial or was he aware of JJ's version of the events?

Pflu wasn't at trial. Think he was the OC at Weber by then. Assume Pflu knew JJ's version of events, as JJ went to Pflu's house to talk the night he got home and found the letter from the Dean. Recall that Pflu had been coaching at Oregon when JJ was in high school in Eugene, and knew JJ's father and JJ before Pflu came to Missoula to coach. It wouldn't surprise me if Pflu knew JJ better than he knew any other player on the team.

 

[PlayerRep]

No, the quote didn't get him fired. The part about "character and tremendous moral fiber" certainly caught everyone's eye and the fact that he said that in the face of the what was going on made it come off as a shot back at someone. Pflugrad could've easily made his comment more generic. Had he just replaced "character and tremendous moral fiber" with "abilities" the quote would've gotten very little attention.

Well, Engstrom had cleared JJ to be back with the team, so in terms of the Student Athlete Conduct Code, Pflu was saying that JJ met the standards that we would like all student athletes to aspire to under the Student Athlete Conduct Code.

This is one of those "PC" lectures about how sports should NOT promote loyalty and support between coaches and players and between players and their teammates. Be careful in HOW you express your loyalty and support: dilute it, strain it, drain it of meaning, hide it and be embarrassed to say anything positive and meaningful, it could mean your job and career.

Engstrom's legacy.

Unusually difficult for Pflu in that situation, having watched JJ grow up and being close to his family. Pflu likely felt it was his duty to deflect the bogus crap that had been thrown at JJ. Pflu's loyalty (and lack of political savvy) cost him, O'Day and the program. Many victims. Pflu should sleep well at night nevertheless.

O'Day's sin was supporting players and coaches behind the scenes when he thought they deserved support and to the extent they deserved support. Of course, he also didn't support them, or as much, when he thought they deserved punishment. Same with Pflu. O'Day can also sleep well at night. I have alot of respect for both of them. Neither cut and ran to saw their own necks, or to cater to the whims of Engstrom or others. I love people with principles.

 

[PlayerRep]

There were days at trial when there were 15/20 players there, as well as some assistants and administrators. Of course, JJ's parents and aunt were there everyday.

 

[SoldierGriz]

No, the quote didn't get him fired. The part about "character and tremendous moral fiber" certainly caught everyone's eye and the fact that he said that in the face of the what was going on made it come off as a shot back at someone. Pflugrad could've easily made his comment more generic. Had he just replaced "character and tremendous moral fiber" with "abilities" the quote would've gotten very little attention.

Well, Engstrom had cleared JJ to be back with the team, so in terms of the Student Athlete Conduct Code, Pflu was saying that JJ met the standards that we would like all student athletes to aspire to under the Student Athlete Conduct Code.

This is one of those "PC" lectures about how sports should NOT promote loyalty and support between coaches and players and between players and their teammates. Be careful in HOW you express your loyalty and support: dilute it, strain it, drain it of meaning, hide it and be embarrassed to say anything positive and meaningful, it could mean your job and career.

Engstrom's legacy.

Unusually difficult for Pflu in that situation, having watched JJ grow up and being close to his family. Pflu likely felt it was his duty to deflect the bogus crap that had been thrown at JJ. Pflu's loyalty (and lack of political savvy) cost him, O'Day and the program. Many victims. Pflu should sleep well at night nevertheless.

O'Day's sin was supporting players and coaches behind the scenes when he thought they deserved support and to the extent they deserved support. Of course, he also didn't support them, or as much, when he thought they deserved punishment. Same with Pflu. O'Day can also sleep well at night. I have alot of respect for both of them. Neither cut and ran to saw their own necks, or to cater to the whims of Engstrom or others. I love people with principles.

+1.

 

[Glendivegriz]

Here's what Pflugrad said:

Yes, I know what Pflu was quoted on. I posted it a week or so ago too. It wasn't said in connection with an arrest or a charge. It was said after a scrimmage. JJ was ultimately acquitted, never lost his schollie or kicked out of school, graduated, and got a settlement from UM. Doesn't seem that the quote was any big deal, and certainly didn't merit firing. Do you think it did?

No, the quote didn't get him fired. The part about "character and tremendous moral fiber" certainly caught everyone's eye and the fact that he said that in the face of the what was going on made it come off as a shot back at someone. Pflugrad could've easily made his comment more generic. Had he just replaced "character and tremendous moral fiber" with "abilities" the quote would've gotten very little attention.

How is this still a thing? Did you hear about the new movie The Hangover? Hit me up on MySpace and we will chat about it. I have to charge my Blackberry and return some DVDs to Blockbuster, so I'll catch up with you later after Peyton Manning and the Colts dominate Monday Night Football.

Exactly. Let this chapter die please. It has been hashed over enough.

 

[Ursa Major]

Here's what Pflugrad said:

Yes, I know what Pflu was quoted on. I posted it a week or so ago too. It wasn't said in connection with an arrest or a charge. It was said after a scrimmage. JJ was ultimately acquitted, never lost his schollie or kicked out of school, graduated, and got a settlement from UM. Doesn't seem that the quote was any big deal, and certainly didn't merit firing. Do you think it did?

No, the quote didn't get him fired. The part about "character and tremendous moral fiber" certainly caught everyone's eye and the fact that he said that in the face of the what was going on made it come off as a shot back at someone. Pflugrad could've easily made his comment more generic. Had he just replaced "character and tremendous moral fiber" with "abilities" the quote would've gotten very little attention.

How is this still a thing? Did you hear about the new movie The Hangover? Hit me up on MySpace and we will chat about it. I have to charge my Blackberry and return some DVDs to Blockbuster, so I'll catch up with you later after Peyton Manning and the Colts dominate Monday Night Football.

The story has become the e-Griz version of the Iliad. It's required reading once a quarter. It's the Homeric story of not two men but two "good" men. I understand Paramount has purchased the rights to the story and Al Pacino has signed on to play the role of Pflu.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Yes, I know what Pflu was quoted on. I posted it a week or so ago too. It wasn't said in connection with an arrest or a charge. It was said after a scrimmage. JJ was ultimately acquitted, never lost his schollie or kicked out of school, graduated, and got a settlement from UM. Doesn't seem that the quote was any big deal, and certainly didn't merit firing. Do you think it did?

No, the quote didn't get him fired. The part about "character and tremendous moral fiber" certainly caught everyone's eye and the fact that he said that in the face of the what was going on made it come off as a shot back at someone. Pflugrad could've easily made his comment more generic. Had he just replaced "character and tremendous moral fiber" with "abilities" the quote would've gotten very little attention.

How is this still a thing? Did you hear about the new movie The Hangover? Hit me up on MySpace and we will chat about it. I have to charge my Blackberry and return some DVDs to Blockbuster, so I'll catch up with you later after Peyton Manning and the Colts dominate Monday Night Football.

The story has become the e-Griz version of the Iliad. It's required reading once a quarter. It's the Homeric story of not two men but two "good" men. I understand Paramount has purchased the rights to the story and Al Pacino has signed on to play the role of Pflu.

I heard the same. Strong families all around.

I don't know what to say really. Three minutes to the biggest battle of our professional lives all comes down to how I post on eGriz.com. Either we heal as a team, or we are going to crumble like Bobcats. Inch by inch, play by play, till we're finished. We are in hell right now, gentlemen. Believe me. It's like Bozeman. And we can stay here and get the shit kicked out of us or we can fight our way back into the light. We can climb out of hell. One inch, at a time.

Now I can't do it for you. I'm too old. I look around and I see these young faces, and I think, I mean, I made every wrong choice a middle aged man could make. I uh....I pissed away all my money, believe it or not. I bought property in Gallatin County. I chased off anyone who has ever loved me. And lately, I can't even stand the face I see in the mirror.

You know, when you get old in life, things get taken from you. That's part of life. But, you only learn that when you start losing stuff. Like conference games in November. You find out that life is just a game of inches. So is football. Because in either game, life or football, the margin for error is so small. I mean, one half step too late or to early, you don't quite make it. One half second too slow or too fast, and you don't quite catch it. One poster on a porta-potty, and you look like an idiot. The inches we need are everywhere around us. They are in every break of the game, every minute, every second.

On this team, we fight for that inch. On this team, we tear ourselves, and everyone around us to pieces for that inch. We CLAW with our finger nails, and through people in shit ponds, for that inch. 'Cause we know, when we add up all those inches, that's going to make the fucking difference between WINNING and LOSING; between LIVING and DYING.

I'll tell you this: in any fight it is the guy who is willing to die who is going to win that inch. And I know
if I am going to have any life anymore, it is because, I am still willing to fight, and die for that inch. Because that is what LIVING is. The six inches in front of your face.

Now, I can't make you do it. You gotta look at the guy next to you. Look into his eyes. Now I think you are going to see a guy who will go that inch with you. You are going to see a guy who will sacrifice himself for this team because he knows when it comes down to it, you are gonna do the same thing for him.

That's a team, gentlemen, and either we heal now, as a team, or we will die as individuals.
That's football, guys. That's all it is.

Now, whattaya gonna do?

 

[bgbigdog]

When did you join the new administration CDA?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

When did you join the new administration CDA?

I have been a part of the administration for years. It's why I cannot offer you a hotdog. If you would like a jalapeño popper or fried mozzarella stick, I have your back.

 

[Phat Cat]

I still say JJ got screwed for getting laid.

 

[grizeyes]

How to handle an arrest?

I thought this thread was about something like this:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=funny+how+not+to+handle+an+arrest&&view=detail&mid=502FA499D0DDADDD3C0F502FA499D0DDADDD3C0F&FORM=VRDGAR

 

[Man1]

I just don't get arrested, that is how I handle things.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I just don't get arrested, that is how I handle things.

Solid strategy. How does it work?

 

[Man1]

I just don't get arrested, that is how I handle things.

Solid strategy. How does it work?

It's complicated

 

[AllWeatherFan]

Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you king

Always remember that.

 

[getgrizzy]

I don't recall how it played out chronologically. Were the university court proceedings already over when Pflugrad made his comment?

This thing played out like an onion, in layers.

Under the Student-Athlete Conduct Code there was at that time a committee that would rule on alleged "code infractions" and whether or not they were Class I, II or III infractions, and the appropriate penalty. In this case, the committee met and agreed that JJ was not in violation, approved his return to practice, and Engstrom signed off on it. JJ was back at practice after that ruling when Pflu made his remarks in response to a question. Recall, Pflu knew JJ since he was a little boy. It was not just a passing remark by a coach about someone he had just known in a year or so of college football play. If anyone had a basis for what he said, Pflu did.

A separate proceeding under the Student Conduct Code (a separate code, with separate rules and penalties) was held some time later to determine expulsion. That was the proceeding taken over by Couture, over Aronofsky's objections, who imposed brand new "Show Trial" rules that would have embarrassed Joseph Stalin.

Was Pflugrad present at the university trial or was he aware of JJ's version of the events?

Pflu wasn't at trial. Think he was the OC at Weber by then. Assume Pflu knew JJ's version of events, as JJ went to Pflu's house to talk the night he got home and found the letter from the Dean. Recall that Pflu had been coaching at Oregon when JJ was in high school in Eugene, and knew JJ's father and JJ before Pflu came to Missoula to coach. It wouldn't surprise me if Pflu knew JJ better than he knew any other player on the team.

If you assume that to be the case, then you have to consider what JJ admitted to doing and then match Pflugrad's comment to the media to that. I'm not saying that his comment is what got him fired, but it is an eyebrow-raiser. For it not to be I would have to think that JJ didn't tell him how it all transpired.

 

[PlayerRep]

This thing played out like an onion, in layers.

Under the Student-Athlete Conduct Code there was at that time a committee that would rule on alleged "code infractions" and whether or not they were Class I, II or III infractions, and the appropriate penalty. In this case, the committee met and agreed that JJ was not in violation, approved his return to practice, and Engstrom signed off on it. JJ was back at practice after that ruling when Pflu made his remarks in response to a question. Recall, Pflu knew JJ since he was a little boy. It was not just a passing remark by a coach about someone he had just known in a year or so of college football play. If anyone had a basis for what he said, Pflu did.

A separate proceeding under the Student Conduct Code (a separate code, with separate rules and penalties) was held some time later to determine expulsion. That was the proceeding taken over by Couture, over Aronofsky's objections, who imposed brand new "Show Trial" rules that would have embarrassed Joseph Stalin.

Was Pflugrad present at the university trial or was he aware of JJ's version of the events?

Pflu wasn't at trial. Think he was the OC at Weber by then. Assume Pflu knew JJ's version of events, as JJ went to Pflu's house to talk the night he got home and found the letter from the Dean. Recall that Pflu had been coaching at Oregon when JJ was in high school in Eugene, and knew JJ's father and JJ before Pflu came to Missoula to coach. It wouldn't surprise me if Pflu knew JJ better than he knew any other player on the team.

If you assume that to be the case, then you have to consider what JJ admitted to doing and then match Pflugrad's comment to the media to that. I'm not saying that his comment is what got him fired, but it is an eyebrow-raiser. For it not to be I would have to think that JJ didn't tell him how it all transpired.

Huh? Don't understand what you're saying. Assume Pflu didn't hear every day, as that wasn't likely or necessary. However, the basic facts are that the 2 knew each other for much of a year and had hung out together at times. The night before the accuser told him that she'd "do him anytime", and this was heard by others. They texted the next day. She wanted him to come over. He said he didn't want to drive because he'd had a few beers. She said she'd pick him up and did. They walked past her male roommate in the LR, going in and out. Went to the BR. Put on movie, laid on bed, and had sex. They or she flirted a bit during sex. He went to bathroom. She went to kitchen to make herself something to eat. She asked him if he wanted to come downtown with her to pick up their mutual male friend, or get dropped at home. He opted to get dropped at home. She went downtown to get the male friend. Took him home and went in his place with him and laid on the bed together. She lied to the rape nurse about what had occurred, e.g. that he'd put his fist in her vagina. She went to a Super Bowl party the next day. She sent curious texts saying he wouldn't think he'd done anything wrong, and maybe it was all her fault. JJ's statements to the authorities and at trial were the same each time. After an almost 3 week trial, he was acquitted in about 2 hours. It wasn't a close call. He was not thrown out of school, did not lose his scholarship, played ball after missing a year, and was awarded a sizeable settlement from UM.

I'm sure 75 could do a better summary than I did.