How to handle an arrest

[getgrizzy]

Was Pflugrad present at the university trial or was he aware of JJ's version of the events?

Pflu wasn't at trial. Think he was the OC at Weber by then. Assume Pflu knew JJ's version of events, as JJ went to Pflu's house to talk the night he got home and found the letter from the Dean. Recall that Pflu had been coaching at Oregon when JJ was in high school in Eugene, and knew JJ's father and JJ before Pflu came to Missoula to coach. It wouldn't surprise me if Pflu knew JJ better than he knew any other player on the team.

If you assume that to be the case, then you have to consider what JJ admitted to doing and then match Pflugrad's comment to the media to that. I'm not saying that his comment is what got him fired, but it is an eyebrow-raiser. For it not to be I would have to think that JJ didn't tell him how it all transpired.

Huh? Don't understand what you're saying. Assume Pflu didn't hear every day, as that wasn't likely or necessary. However, the basic facts are that the 2 knew each other for much of a year and had hung out together at times. The night before the accuser told him that she'd "do him anytime", and this was heard by others. They texted the next day. She wanted him to come over. He said he didn't want to drive because he'd had a few beers. She said she'd pick him up and did. They walked past her male roommate in the LR, going in and out. Went to the BR. Put on movie, laid on bed, and had sex. They or she flirted a bit during sex. He went to bathroom. She went to kitchen to make herself something to eat. She asked him if he wanted to come downtown with her to pick up their mutual male friend, or get dropped at home. He opted to get dropped at home. She went downtown to get the male friend. Took him home and went in his place with him and laid on the bed together. She lied to the rape nurse about what had occurred, e.g. that he'd put his fist in her vagina. She went to a Super Bowl party the next day. She sent curious texts saying he wouldn't think he'd done anything wrong, and maybe it was all her fault. JJ's statements to the authorities and at trial were the same each time. After an almost 3 week trial, he was acquitted in about 2 hours. It wasn't a close call. He was not thrown out of school, did not lose his scholarship, played ball after missing a year, and was awarded a sizeable settlement from UM.

I'm sure 75 could do a better summary than I did.

Then Pflugrad probably didn't know that the girl and JJ had known each other for over a year and had some mild relations or that the girl had wanted to have a serious relationship or that JJ was in a relationship with someone else.

 

[PlayerRep]

Admitting that I don't know what Pflu knew or was told.

Was there ever any evidence or statement that she wanted to have a serious relation with him? I don't recall that ever being said or coming up.

She must have know he had a girlfriend or was dating someone, both generally and from seeing him with another girl the prior night.

In this era of hookup relationships, and even long before that, guys and girls have had short relationships, casual relationships, one night stands, Tinder, etc. I hope that doesn't surprise anyone. The Puritanical age went out in the US long ago.

 

[getgrizzy]

Admitting that I don't know what Pflu knew or was told.

Was there ever any evidence or statement that she wanted to have a serious relation with him? I don't recall that ever being said or coming up.

She must have know he had a girlfriend or was dating someone, both generally and from seeing him with another girl the prior night.

In this era of hookup relationships, and even long before that, guys and girls have had short relationships, casual relationships, one night stands, Tinder, etc. I hope that doesn't surprise anyone. The Puritanical age went out in the US long ago.

What the thread is basically about is how to talk to the media about situations involving possible criminal matters. This wasn't a parking violation, it was a rape accusation. It would appear that either Pflugrad did or didn't really know the situation or person well enough and then didn't measure his words accordingly. The statement, as we've agreed, was one that could've been as effective had the language used been slightly different. Pflugrad stated that JJ had "character and tremendous moral fiber". "Tremendous". If JJ told him the whole story, then Pflugrad certainly should not have said those things as he would know they aren't accurate. If JJ didn't tell him the whole story (that they had a past, that she was interested in a relationship), it's a little more forgivable, but based on the charge he should have reminded himself that he doesn't really know anyone as well as he thinks. No one really does and therefore it is really not wise, especially considering the known circumstance, to make that particular statement. It's OK to grab someone that just donated a bunch of time to charity and say what Pflugrad said about JJ, but very risky to say that about someone charged with rape. He was obviously just guessing or assuming and this wasn't a time to make that assumption. He gambled and lost as a lot of people really didn't know how to take what he was saying and many have used it against him. It turned out to be incorrect and it didn't have to happen. No one would've thought any different of Pflugrad or JJ had Pflugrad just chosen his words better.

 

[garizzalies]

Wow, Gwen. Still chapped? Are you ever going to move on?
Your vagina must make the Sahara Desert look like a little mud puddle

 

[PlayerRep]

Admitting that I don't know what Pflu knew or was told.

Was there ever any evidence or statement that she wanted to have a serious relation with him? I don't recall that ever being said or coming up.

She must have know he had a girlfriend or was dating someone, both generally and from seeing him with another girl the prior night.

In this era of hookup relationships, and even long before that, guys and girls have had short relationships, casual relationships, one night stands, Tinder, etc. I hope that doesn't surprise anyone. The Puritanical age went out in the US long ago.

What the thread is basically about is how to talk to the media about situations involving possible criminal matters. This wasn't a parking violation, it was a rape accusation. It would appear that either Pflugrad did or didn't really know the situation or person well enough and then didn't measure his words accordingly. The statement, as we've agreed, was one that could've been as effective had the language used been slightly different. Pflugrad stated that JJ had "character and tremendous moral fiber". "Tremendous". If JJ told him the whole story, then Pflugrad certainly should not have said those things as he would know they aren't accurate. If JJ didn't tell him the whole story (that they had a past, that she was interested in a relationship), it's a little more forgivable, but based on the charge he should have reminded himself that he doesn't really know anyone as well as he thinks. No one really does and therefore it is really not wise, especially considering the known circumstance, to make that particular
statement. It's OK to grab someone that just donated a bunch of time to charity and say what Pflugrad said about JJ, but very risky to say that about someone charged with rape. He was obviously just guessing or assuming and this wasn't a time to make that assumption. He gambled and lost as a lot of people really didn't know how to take what he was saying and many have used it against him. It turned out to be incorrect and it didn't have to happen. No one would've thought any different of Pflugrad or JJ had Pflugrad just chosen his words better.

At the time, there had been no "rape" allegation. I don't believe the accuser had even gone to the police. Rape is defined in the law. Rape is not in university sexual harassment/assault policies. Much different animal.

You are making a judgment colored by your view of what character and moral fiber are. Pflu knew JJ better than any adult in Missoula at the time and had had a long history with him. You seem to be assuming that a person with "character and tremendous moral fiber" can't have a hook up. I don't share that view, nor do many people.

Again, I agree that those words could have been left out. Various people at the trial praised JJ, by the way. However, I suppose Pflu wanted to support his player. Again, the question came from a sports reporter after a scrimmage.

Given how the JJ matter turned out, Pflu was largely vindicated, in my view. Engstrom is the one that should go to hell for what he did, not Pflu. Engstrom made the bad decision. Engstrom supported an incompetent dean. Engstrom supported the U using a standard that had not yet been adopted by the U. Engstrom et all caused the U alot of bad press and alot of money. Alot more people in this town respect Pflu than Engstrom.

 

[Gametime]

Admitting that I don't know what Pflu knew or was told.

Was there ever any evidence or statement that she wanted to have a serious relation with him? I don't recall that ever being said or coming up.

She must have know he had a girlfriend or was dating someone, both generally and from seeing him with another girl the prior night.

In this era of hookup relationships, and even long before that, guys and girls have had short relationships, casual relationships, one night stands, Tinder, etc. I hope that doesn't surprise anyone. The Puritanical age went out in the US long ago.

What the thread is basically about is how to talk to the media about situations involving possible criminal matters. This wasn't a parking violation, it was a rape accusation. It would appear that either Pflugrad did or didn't really know the situation or person well enough and then didn't measure his words accordingly. The statement, as we've agreed, was one that could've been as effective had the language used been slightly different. Pflugrad stated that JJ had "character and tremendous moral fiber". "Tremendous". If JJ told him the whole story, then Pflugrad certainly should not have said those things as he would know they aren't accurate. If JJ didn't tell him the whole story (that they had a past, that she was interested in a relationship), it's a little more forgivable, but based on the charge he should have reminded himself that he doesn't really know anyone as well as he thinks. No one really does and therefore it is really not wise, especially considering the known circumstance, to make that particular statement. It's OK to grab someone that just donated a bunch of time to charity and say what Pflugrad said about JJ, but very risky to say that about someone charged with rape. He was obviously just guessing or assuming and this wasn't a time to make that assumption. He gambled and lost as a lot of people really didn't know how to take what he was saying and many have used it against him. It turned out to be incorrect and it didn't have to happen. No one would've thought any different of Pflugrad or JJ had Pflugrad just chosen his words better.

Well said getgrizzly. You truly see the big picture.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

It's OK to grab someone

That is never OK. Why are you such a supporter of assault? I'm not easily offended, but I think it's borderline disgusting to support that type of behavior.