Has anyone started an official fire Engstrom thread?

[AllWeatherFan]

Would somebody please explain to me the effectiveness of a "vote of no confidence?"

To me, it's always been a real chicken-shit way for people to anonymously complain about somebody who's in charge. What am I not seeing?

 

[tnt]

Would somebody please explain to me the effectiveness of a "vote of no confidence?"

To me, it's always been a real chicken-shit way for people to anonymously complain about somebody who's in charge. What am I not seeing?

There are a few non-tenured (or non-tenure track) teachers raising hell about some classes being cut including "Food and Culture" and "Films as Anthropology" They have been pushing for a non-confidence vote. Thats something done only by tenure staff. Don't hold your breath. The adjuncts as always are nervous.

 

[PlayerRep]

Would somebody please explain to me the effectiveness of a "vote of no confidence?"

To me, it's always been a real chicken-shit way for people to anonymously complain about somebody who's in charge. What am I not seeing?

If it happens, then you will see. You don't think a sizeable vote of no-confidence from the UM faculty, which would get alot of press and the attention of the BOR, would carry some significant weight? It's similar to an election. An election is anonymous and is sometimes a way of complaining. I hope you don't think voting is chicken shit.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I hope you don't think voting is chicken shit.

Did you really type that?

 

[first11]

I have nothing against a man who values academia. He is doing more this year to put Montana back on the map. His tour across Montana to talk to high schools and communities shows his dedication to this university. On a football board he has a negative light because people blame him for what happened in 2011-2012. I don't agree with firing someone as dedicated to academics as Engstrom is, especially when he is not to blame for 2011-2012 in the football realm. I wish people would give him the slightest chance because he is strides ahead of Dennison in having this University in mind. People seem to forget he was Dennison's right hand man for years. He is no stranger to how Montana has success. All these accusations that Engstrom does not "care" about football is ridiculous. The man is a Griz and knows where the money comes from. Not only is he more intelligent that Dennison, he will put Montana in the best position possible for the future. Faculty love the man...and so do students. I'm sorry football fans don't, but that's not my problem to deal with.

Amen to your post above, perhaps Pres. Royce only error was taking the reigns from GD. He inherited a mess from him. People that want to tag on Engstrom are kinda like someone gaining 20 lbs. after the holidays and blaming weight gain on the last cup of egg nog and Christmas cookie. Regents should get the ire as they sat on a lot of crap, and many were simply intimidated by GD...just ask a lot of retired UM folks! Like weight gain, it takes a while to add it on and it will not go away without time, effort and pain.

 

[PlayerRep]

I hope you don't think voting is chicken shit.

Did you really type that?

Isn't that essentially what you had said? People who complain anonymously are chicken shit. Voting has aspects of complaining, and it is anonymous. What's wrong with a no-confidence vote?

 

[PlayerRep]

I have nothing against a man who values academia. He is doing more this year to put Montana back on the map. His tour across Montana to talk to high schools and communities shows his dedication to this university. On a football board he has a negative light because people blame him for what happened in 2011-2012. I don't agree with firing someone as dedicated to academics as Engstrom is, especially when he is not to blame for 2011-2012 in the football realm. I wish people would give him the slightest chance because he is strides ahead of Dennison in having this University in mind. People seem to forget he was Dennison's right hand man for years. He is no stranger to how Montana has success. All these accusations that Engstrom does not "care" about football is ridiculous. The man is a Griz and knows where the money comes from. Not only is he more intelligent that Dennison, he will put Montana in the best position possible for the future. Faculty love the man...and so do students. I'm sorry football fans don't, but that's not my problem to deal with.

Amen to your post above, perhaps Pres. Royce only error was taking the reigns from GD. He inherited a mess from him. People that want to tag on Engstrom are kinda like someone gaining 20 lbs. after the holidays and blaming weight gain on the last cup of egg nog and Christmas cookie. Regents should get the ire as they sat on a lot of crap, and many were simply intimidated by GD...just ask a lot of retired UM folks! Like weight gain, it takes a while to add it on and it will not go away without time, effort and pain.

No, Engstrom made a mess after inheriting a good university.

 

[ranco]

I hate when I have to agree with PR.

 

[PhxGriz]

Who is responsible for the multiple national articles on the um students rights being forfeited?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[ranco]

Who is responsible for the multiple national articles on the um students rights being forfeited?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

What rights were forfeited?

 

[PhxGriz]

Who is responsible for the multiple national articles on the um students rights being forfeited?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

What rights were forfeited?

The students rights in regards to the student code. I am on my tablet, so it is a pain to look one up and paste, but I do remember articles criticizing The UM. This decision coincided with all the investigations.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[GrizRanger]

Faculty love the man...and so do students.

No. The man is neither liked nor respected on campus.

No kidding. What is 16 thinking? He needs to get in touch with the campus. Many on the faculty are pushing for a no-confidence vote. Wait until the upcoming announcement of further cutbacks of eliminations of faculty positions. Engstrom and his actions are directly responsible for a good chunk of the decline in enrollment. He has mishandled and fumbled multiple things since he took over. The University would be much better off if Dennison was still the president.

I agree totally. Engstrom has been a disaster for the University as well as the football program. He is disliked and lacks the respect of many on and off campus. Engstrom needs to go. We can only hope some other University will help get him to leave Missoula!

 

[ChesterGriz]

Faculty love the man...and so do students.

No. The man is neither liked nor respected on campus.

No kidding. What is 16 thinking? He needs to get in touch with the campus. Many on the faculty are pushing for a no-confidence vote. Wait until the upcoming announcement of further cutbacks of eliminations of faculty positions. Engstrom and his actions are directly responsible for a good chunk of the decline in enrollment. He has mishandled and fumbled multiple things since he took over. The University would be much better off if Dennison was still the president.

I agree totally. Engstrom has been a disaster for the University as well as the football program. He is disliked and lacks the respect of many on and off campus. Engstrom needs to go. We can only hope some other University will help get him to leave Missoula!

+1

 

[UMGriz75]

Faculty love the man...and so do students.

Here's a recent letter to the Missoulian, from faculty:

"UM must right its academic course first"

October 17, 2013 8:15 am • Guest column by MEHRDAD KIA

"In the past two years, the University of Montana has scrambled from one crisis to the next. Like a football team that keeps on fumbling the ball inside its own end zone, the university cannot expect to move forward and win the game against tough competition unless its leadership can avoid getting out-coached and turning over the ball.

"Hardly a week passes without the community learning about another embarrassing incident or a controversial decision. There is now no doubt that the crises the university faces today are self-inflicted. The mishandling of the sexual assault allegations and their aftermath, the unexplained firings of the athletic director and the football coach, the panic-stricken response to the arrival of federal investigators in Missoula, and the signing of a highly flawed agreement with the departments of Justice and Education, all originated in Main Hall itself. It is these failings and mishaps that have caused a significant drop in enrollment, a sharp decrease in revenue and a loss of reputation for the institution.

"But bad news keeps on coming."

...
Mehrdad Kia is a professor in the department of history at the University of Montana. This opinion is also signed by Linda Frey, Christopher Anderson, Evelina Badery, Peggy Cain, L. Jack Lyon, Lewis Schneller, Bernard Constantin, Michel Valentin, Timothy Bradstock, Todd Mowbray and Mladen Kozul.

http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/um-must-right-its-academic-course-first/article_95424710-372d-11e3-878a-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's how the faculty feels.

Had they asked, I would have signed as well.

Engstrom is applying elsewhere. He knows he's done here. He wants out.

 

[stubbins]

Faculty love the man...and so do students.

Here's a recent letter to the Missoulian, from faculty:

"UM must right its academic course first"

October 17, 2013 8:15 am • Guest column by MEHRDAD KIA

"In the past two years, the University of Montana has scrambled from one crisis to the next. Like a football team that keeps on fumbling the ball inside its own end zone, the university cannot expect to move forward and win the game against tough competition unless its leadership can avoid getting out-coached and turning over the ball.

"Hardly a week passes without the community learning about another embarrassing incident or a controversial decision. There is now no doubt that the crises the university faces today are self-inflicted. The mishandling of the sexual assault allegations and their aftermath, the unexplained firings of the athletic director and the football coach, the panic-stricken response to the arrival of federal investigators in Missoula, and the signing of a highly flawed agreement with the departments of Justice and Education, all originated in Main Hall itself. It is these failings and mishaps that have caused a significant drop in enrollment, a sharp decrease in revenue and a loss of reputation for the institution.

"But bad news keeps on coming."

...
Mehrdad Kia is a professor in the department of history at the University of Montana. This opinion is also signed by Linda Frey, Christopher Anderson, Evelina Badery, Peggy Cain, L. Jack Lyon, Lewis Schneller, Bernard Constantin, Michel Valentin, Timothy Bradstock, Todd Mowbray and Mladen Kozul.

http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/um-must-right-its-academic-course-first/article_95424710-372d-11e3-878a-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's how the faculty feels.

Had they asked, I would have signed as well.

Engstrom is applying elsewhere. He knows he's done here. He wants out.

It'd only be fair if he was blindsided, and had to go through every interview explaining his dismissal, like the two men he did the same to.

 

[PhxGriz]

While this is a recent article, this is what I was talking about.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/features/article_ee6a6570-3246-11e3-8e64-001a4bcf6878.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The resolution agreement states:
“The University may also take appropriate action if it does not find discrimination or harassment that creates a hostile environment or results in a tangible employment or educational action, but (a) the University found that the respondent engaged in disruptive behavior or (b) to prevent the creation of a hostile environment.”

“Set aside the illiteracy of that for a moment,” Mayer said. “And what they’re saying is you can be found innocent and still have an action brought against you ... in some way suffer repercussions for being found innocent. And that isn’t really even the Soviet Union — it’s just Orwellian.”

 

[UMGriz75]

I have nothing against a man who values academia. He is doing more this year to put Montana back on the map. His tour across Montana to talk to high schools and communities shows his dedication to this university.... I'm sorry football fans don't, but that's not my problem to deal with.

From the National Bureau of Economic Research:

"For FBS schools, winning football games increases alumni athletic donations, enhances a school’s academic reputation, increases the number of applicants and in-state students, reduces acceptance rates, and raises average incoming SAT scores. The estimates imply that large increases in team performance can have economically significant effects, particularly in the area of athletic donations. Consider a school that improves its season wins by 5 games (the approximate difference between a 25th percentile season and a 75th percentile season). Changes of this magnitude occur approximately 8% of the time over a one-year period and 13% of the time over a two-year period. This school may expect alumni athletic donations to increase by $682,000 (28%), applications to increase by 677 (5%), the acceptance rate to drop by 1.5 percentage points (2%), in-state enrollment to increase by 76 students (3%), and incoming 25th percentile SAT scores to increase by 9 points (1%). These estimates are equal to or larger than comparable estimates from the existing literature."

The Benefits of College Athletic Success: An Application of the Propensity Score Design with Instrumental Variables, by Michael L. Anderson, NBER Working Paper No. 18196, June 2012.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w18196" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://freakonomics.com/2012/07/09/how-much-do-football-wins-pay-off-for-a-college/comment-page-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[rimrockgriz]

I have nothing against a man who values academia. He is doing more this year to put Montana back on the map. His tour across Montana to talk to high schools and communities shows his dedication to this university.... I'm sorry football fans don't, but that's not my problem to deal with.

From the National Bureau of Economic Research:

"For FBS schools, winning football games increases alumni athletic donations, enhances a school’s academic reputation, increases the number of applicants and in-state students, reduces acceptance rates, and raises average incoming SAT scores. The estimates imply that large increases in team performance can have economically significant effects, particularly in the area of athletic donations. Consider a school that improves its season wins by 5 games (the approximate difference between a 25th percentile season and a 75th percentile season). Changes of this magnitude occur approximately 8% of the time over a one-year period and 13% of the time over a two-year period. This school may expect alumni athletic donations to increase by $682,000 (28%), applications to increase by 677 (5%), the acceptance rate to drop by 1.5 percentage points (2%), in-state enrollment to increase by 76 students (3%), and incoming 25th percentile SAT scores to increase by 9 points (1%). These estimates are equal to or larger than comparable estimates from the existing literature."

The Benefits of College Athletic Success: An Application of the Propensity Score Design with Instrumental Variables, by Michael L. Anderson, NBER Working Paper No. 18196, June 2012.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w18196" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://freakonomics.com/2012/07/09/how-much-do-football-wins-pay-off-for-a-college/comment-page-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"an injection of hard data and logic"...BRAVO !!! :egriz:

 

[IzzyGriz]

OK, for those who want to write to the Board of Regents, here is a link to their email addresses: http://mus.edu/board/BORmembers.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tnt]

Faculty love the man...and so do students.

Here's a recent letter to the Missoulian, from faculty:

"UM must right its academic course first"

October 17, 2013 8:15 am • Guest column by MEHRDAD KIA

"In the past two years, the University of Montana has scrambled from one crisis to the next. Like a football team that keeps on fumbling the ball inside its own end zone, the university cannot expect to move forward and win the game against tough competition unless its leadership can avoid getting out-coached and turning over the ball.

"Hardly a week passes without the community learning about another embarrassing incident or a controversial decision. There is now no doubt that the crises the university faces today are self-inflicted. The mishandling of the sexual assault allegations and their aftermath, the unexplained firings of the athletic director and the football coach, the panic-stricken response to the arrival of federal investigators in Missoula, and the signing of a highly flawed agreement with the departments of Justice and Education, all originated in Main Hall itself. It is these failings and mishaps that have caused a significant drop in enrollment, a sharp decrease in revenue and a loss of reputation for the institution.

"But bad news keeps on coming."

...
Mehrdad Kia is a professor in the department of history at the University of Montana. This opinion is also signed by Linda Frey, Christopher Anderson, Evelina Badery, Peggy Cain, L. Jack Lyon, Lewis Schneller, Bernard Constantin, Michel Valentin, Timothy Bradstock, Todd Mowbray and Mladen Kozul.

http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/um-must-right-its-academic-course-first/article_95424710-372d-11e3-878a-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's how the faculty feels.

Had they asked, I would have signed as well.

Engstrom is applying elsewhere. He knows he's done here. He wants out.

Ah yes, Mehrdad Kia, former Provost of the International Studies Program (now an instructor) up to his Eyeballs with Couture in the Saudi Student Incident. One retired and one resigned within days of each other with provost Brown assuring everyone there was no connection.........

There is enough faculty politics going on, on campus without bringing it here. Its always been going on.

Why not mention the real issue on campus (that the faculty Senate is grappling with) and is of far more concern is HOW the budget is going to be spent (and is at some level now) I believe the title is "Performance Based Funding" There a number are whos pet projects/classes are on the chopping block screaming about academic freedom. Nothing new under the sun.