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Harsh reality on roster changes

UMGriz75 said:
PlayerRep said:
Seems to me that the team didn't stumble at all. The team had a pretty good season overall, with ups and downs.
I thought the team did a great job, and particularly the defense. A bunch of great team players and some outstanding talents. The season did not do them a full justice.


Seriously 75. Every post you make anymore takes great pains to either 1) Criticize Stitt or any decision that can be attributed to him and/or support the opposite. 2) Make every attempt to give any and all credit for this year's team to coaches that are not tied to Stitt or were already here.

The team had many ups and downs, but as far as first years with new head coaches, Stitt is the best result since Glenn. And while we are at it. What the hell is Stitt supposed to say about guys that evidently were not cut but were told that they are welcome to stay but they won't play? Announce to the world that he had told them that they weren't good enough? He was pissed that a reporter had reported players were cut that weren't actually cut. I don't blame him for that. Should he have possibly acknowledged the two that have confirmed it? Maybe, but he was clearly distracted by the reports of his players being cut that actually haven't been, and how it will impact them. Seems pretty reasonable to me, actually.
 
So... I've been swamped with school the last week or so... Can someone explain to me(only facts not your personal bias) about what happened and who got cut? I quickly glanced through this whole thread and didn't see anything to clearly state what happened. All I saw was people being stupid
 
I have no issue with the cuts. It's unfortunate for the players, but it's part of the deal.

My issues -
1. Stitt getting upset with the media for reporting what players are tweeting. He has twitter, he knows how this all works. He is the voice of the program and when something goes wrong he turns into this arrogant cry baby. He handles the ups and the wins equally poorly.

2. NDSU didn't beat the Griz 37-6 because of some great disparity in talent. They played with confidence and executed their well thought out game plan. The Griz played tentative and looked totally confused by NDSU's defensive scheme - that is on the coaches, folks.
 
I think the ndsu loss was on everyone... With probably the exception of the defense I think the defense played pretty good. Has stitt acknowledged at all that he was simply outcoached in the game or does it seem as if he is blaming it on talent?
 
The one thing it appears Stitt is doing is looking at more than talent but rather how well these kid can play together. Talent alone isn't enough. It appeared (to me anyway) Gustafson skipped some reads looking instead to his favorites and not always making good choices. What the reason is has got to be considered.
 
I think the ndsu loss was on everyone... With probably the exception of the defense I think the defense played pretty good. Has stitt acknowledged at all that he was simply outcoached in the game or does it seem as if he is blaming it on talent?

Agreed. The defense played great considering they were on the field all day. Those guys deserve a ton credit for this season. So does Gregorak. Not sure if Stitt said or implied that he was outcoached. I'd be shocked if shouldered his amount of the blame.
 
griz5700 said:
I have no issue with the cuts. It's unfortunate for the players, but it's part of the deal.

My issues -
1. Stitt getting upset with the media for reporting what players are tweeting. He has twitter, he knows how this all works. He is the voice of the program and when something goes wrong he turns into this arrogant cry baby. He handles the ups and the wins equally poorly.

2. NDSU didn't beat the Griz 37-6 because of some great disparity in talent. They played with confidence and executed their well thought out game plan. The Griz played tentative and looked totally confused by NDSU's defensive scheme - that is on the coaches, folks.

Actually, he got upset for the media reporting what he said was inaccurate information...I saw or heard nothing about him being upset with the tweets and reports about Pflug and Parker....
 
grzz said:
I don't blame him for that. Should he have possibly acknowledged the two that have confirmed it? Maybe, but he was clearly distracted by the reports of his players being cut that actually haven't been, and how it will impact them. Seems pretty reasonable to me, actually.
Well, this is fan blindness. He didn't need to be distracted by anything. If he had simply done the right thing in the first place, there was nothing to be distracted from, there was no controversy, no misnamed players, no temper tantrum at press conference, nothing.

This isn't rocket science. It's basic common sense and decency to the kids. It's not the end of the world, its the passing stupidity that any of this had to come up at all. It was a waste of time and the waste of a press conference opportunity. Willy Pflug and Chris Parker handled this with considerable class, and the coach still refused a direct question to even publicly acknowledge them out of anger at Colter Nuanez. Well, I guess he taught those boys a real lesson about being recruited by the University of Montana.

Good luck guys, sorry it didn't work out for you, but we appreciate your hard work, dedication and your contributions to the team and to the University of Montana. Best wishes for your future endeavors.

There. See. Somebody finally said it.
 
Does anyone actually know what the coaches said to Parker and Pflug?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for a coach confirm to the media or announce to the media, a day or so after discussions like this have been held with players, that they have been cut or told they won't play or told they should probably move on. The players can say and do what they want, but I think the coach should be silent, for at least a decent period of time.
 
PlayerRep said:
Several comments.

Seems to me that the team didn't stumble at all. The team had a pretty good season overall, with ups and downs. Not unexpected with new coach, new offensive system, new qb, and injuries to first and second team QB's. It's too early to determine what Stitt can and can't do. For me, it's fine so far.

I don't agree that this year's recruiting and season will determine whether Stitt will be able to return UM to the top. It will take more time than that, more years of recruiting, and probably the full allocation of scholarships--especially given the large number of seniors, top players and holes to fill for next year.

UM football is self-supporting and throws off revenue for the rest of the athletic department and the school. This occurs even with the athletic dept loading extra costs into the football sub-budget and the school siphoning off revenue. That doesn't mean that football isn't or shouldn't be still accountable to the taxpayers. On the other hand, many taxpayers and fans often think they are entitled to way more than they really are or should be.

Except for last spring, I don't remember there being any announcements or confirmations that players were cut, or told they'd have to leave the program. Maybe there have been some that I just don't recall.

I don't see any need for coaches to announce or confirm cuts. I suppose if word gets out to reporters, and they ask, then the coach has to decide what, if anything, to say. I don't care if the coach says anything or not. I don't feel entitled to know this type of stuff, or to learn it officially. Information from egriz is good enough for me. And, taxpayers have no right to know whether cuts have been made or not, nor do fans, in my view.

The difference this time is that some players immediately went to social media, some reporters and others picked up on that, the reporters were fairly aggressive in obtaining information and reporting it on twitter, some of the information was not quite right, the coaches have been previously irked at some of these reporters, and the coaches told some reporters what they thought. Could Stitt have perhaps said things a bit differently? Probably yes. Is any of this a big deal? Probably not. Have some of these reporters further damaged their relationships with the coaches? Probably. Just a guess; I don't know.

Great post.
 
BadlandsGrizFan said:
SouthDakotaGrizzly said:
Maybe not the best direct comparison, but I'll make it anyway...I'll liken what Stitt's doing to what Pete Carroll and John Schneider did when they took over the Seahawks. The first couple of years they were there they made a ridiculous number of roster moves including some that were none too popular (the easiest example is Matt Hasselbeck, who has shown this year that he can still play at the ripe old age of 40, and of course there was choosing to start the 3rd round draft pick at QB over the big money free agent). They totally overhauled the roster to bring in the exact type of guys they wanted and, obviously, it has worked. Now, Stitt isn't likely to make changes that extreme, nor does he really have the power to do so in a college environment, but he does run a VERY different offense than Delaney's and with a season under his belt to really evaluate the roster, especially on the offensive side, now is his chance to make the changes he sees as critical. This season was, in some ways, about making square pegs fit into round holes on offense. Now is his chance to bring in some round pegs.


This!!!! And the most obvious example of not having his guys I feel was demonstrated by O Line...those guys were so unsatisfactory the entire year....they looked the most like players out of their system!!!

Yes, I think this is a great comparison and as a long time 'Hawks fan, I totally understand the analogy.
 
PlayerRep said:
Does anyone actually know what the coaches said to Parker and Pflug?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for a coach confirm to the media or announce to the media, a day or so after discussions like this have been held with players, that they have been cut or told they won't play or told they should probably move on. The players can say and do what they want, but I think the coach should be silent, for at least a decent period of time.

According to 75...that is not the right thing to do...it is sort of like the nursing home that calls me every time my dad gets a little cut or bruise....they don't have to call me at midnight to tell me that he bumped into the door and has a 2mm cut on his hand....they could wait until morning....
 
UMGriz75 said:
havgrizfan said:
The difference is, one is right and one is wrong. Stitt owes no fan or booster anything. Meanwhile, tax payers aren't entitled to anything as it relates to UM football. How do you even kno your state witheld is even funneled to the football team anyway? How do you know your state witheld doesn't end up in MSU'S athletic budget? Answer. You don't!
Are you suggesting that UM football become a separate entity? Or that it actually already is? That Stitt is somehow the actual unaccountable owner?

What I actually said was this:
On the other hand, we cut 15 players after spring camp. Nobody seemed to concerned about "harsh realities" then. Is cutting two now, pretending you didn't at an angry press conference, then announcing that there will be more later "something new?"

I think everyone expects cuts. Jack Welch cut the bottom 10% every year at GE. It's the only way to move forward.
What's your problem? As I noted, 15 were cut at spring camp, everybody was informed in a timely manner, and expected cuts. No social media meltdowns, no forum outrages, no rumors, no speculation. There's an explanation for that, you know. It was done right.

My problem here is with a petulant coach who could have done things right this time, and didn't and then publicly bitched that somebody else got it wrong. The reason for that is he didn't do it right, and didn't even have the courtesy to the kids involved to given them a warm send-off and a decent public explanation. It was an unnecessary controversy from the get-go. The program has better things to do than deal with coach PR screw ups and public tantrums. Sorry, it just does. Times change, the kids shouldn't be out there announcing roster changes when the coach is perfectly able to do so in a professional and timely manner. If you let a rumor mill exist, then you are going to get rumors. It's simply stupid to believe otherwise in this day and age.

If your claim is that "Stitt owes" nobody anything; this could be a short career. Even I give Stitt more credit that you do on that point because that attitude will not go far, I assure you.

Is your point really that no one knows what goes into MSU's athletic budget? That's really what this is all about?

Are you drinking?


Your problem is that you have some sort of grievance against Stitt. There is nothing he will do for the rest of his life that you will agree with, it is very apparent. Can you just agree that you disagree with every decision he makes? That way we don't have to waddle through the same ole tired bullshit every 5th post...? Please?
 
griz5700 said:
I have no issue with the cuts. It's unfortunate for the players, but it's part of the deal.

My issues -
1. Stitt getting upset with the media for reporting what players are tweeting. He has twitter, he knows how this all works. He is the voice of the program and when something goes wrong he turns into this arrogant cry baby. He handles the ups and the wins equally poorly.

2. NDSU didn't beat the Griz 37-6 because of some great disparity in talent. They played with confidence and executed their well thought out game plan. The Griz played tentative and looked totally confused by NDSU's defensive scheme - that is on the coaches, folks.

There IS disparity in talent between NDSU and the Griz. But that's more about the different styles of play each team brings. NDSU is geared for the power run game and a physically dominating D. The Griz are a "fast break" team that utilizes speed and quickness. Both teams have talent but they just may not always match up well with each other. These type of match ups are about which team can impose their will and style of play on the other opponent. The Griz did a good job playing their style in the first game. The Bison returned to their roots in game two and went more "smash mouth". Not a bad strategy with an untested Frosh QB. Yes this loss was about good coaching by NDSU but their players executed that game plan to perfection. The Griz talent couldn't match the NDSU talent in this type of game. In fact, they didn't match up well with any power teams this season. Your somewhat inflammatory post about NDSU being "slow, slow, slow....." was good for some fan fodder but it turned out not to be an issue. NDSU, with their type of talent, shut down the Griz. In reality, it's not that rare for a power run team with a strong D to shut down a prolific offense.....Super Bowl victories by the Giants over the Bills and the Patriots over the Rams come to mind.
 
PlayerRep said:
Does anyone actually know what the coaches said to Parker and Pflug?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea for a coach confirm to the media or announce to the media, a day or so after discussions like this have been held with players, that they have been cut or told they won't play or told they should probably move on. The players can say and do what they want, but I think the coach should be silent, for at least a decent period of time.
I almost always agree with you, but on this, in an age of social media, this is no longer useful, and leads to precisely the kind of outcomes as evidenced here. I'm speaking from a good deal of experience on this point, and the actual facts, in this new era, are that as soon as something happens, and there is no official confirmation, the rumor machine starts because there is an "appearance" that "something is going on" that someone "wants to hide."

This is no longer a question of "if." In an age of instant communication and requirements of transparency, anything like this will -- "will" -- result in speculation, and all the more so when it involves 100 or more young people, their friends, families and cohorts at the first level, 50,000 or more fans at the next level, and the general public after that.

I've also been on all sides of this question, as a reporter, an editor, a coach, and a sport administrator. "News cycles" are incredibly rapid these days.

You sit down with the affected players, you discuss the situation with them. You show them the proposed press release. You thank them. You ask them if the press release is something that they find acceptable. You don't leave them hanging out to dry in the public, because when you do, I've seen the speculation -- caused entirely by "silence" -- range from "cut for chemistry," to "grades," to "criminal charges," to "violation of rules," to "drinking," to "inappropriate behavior," all of which can be as false as false can be, but anyone who fails to recognize the nature of that beast is simply naive. And once those rumors get out there, as is well known, the allegation gets society's attention; the correction is on page 23.

You can't take that risk with young people's lives. It is careless and entirely inappropriate to take that risk. The duty of loyalty to the kids and to the institution is to avoid damage to both, and there is only one way in modern society, dealing with young people subject to speculation and imagination, and fan bases driven almost entirely by it, to do otherwise. The modern "best practice" is to protect the athlete by direct and public communication, the assurance that the athlete committed no infractions resulting in the termination. The most difficult part of that public process is ensuring that the athlete does not go out to be re-recruited with the implied cloud that he "just wasn't good enough" which is the kiss of death for future college play, as opposed to ensuring that everyone knows that it was the coach's game that changed, not the athlete's inadequacy. Delicate area indeed for the athlete seeking to complete a career elsewhere.

So much so that the NCAA is attempting to resolve those dilemmas and protect those athletes by possibly shifting to five year scholarship guarantees, just to protect the athletes from the kind of fallout of what happened here at UM this week because of a badly handled roster cut. These aren't imaginary problems. The NCAA is taking them seriously. I have used the word "proactive." That should be the watchword any time dealing with young people who, above all, rarely have the resources to protect themselves, and in the process, to protect the image of the University as a caring and protective institution for the young people entrusted to its care.

Indeed, it is a contractual obligation at UM to avoid damaging the public image and reputation of UM:
4. CONDUCT OF THE UM FOOTBALL PROGRAM
a. Coach shall act at all times in accordance with and fully comply with the laws, regulations, rules, policies, and guidelines of the United States, State of Montana, UM, the Big Sky Conference, NCAA and in a manner that reflects positively on the image and reputation of UM. Coach's failure to act in full compliance with these laws, regulations, rules and guidelines may result in disciplinary or corrective action as may be appropriate in light of the severity of the conduct.
 
UMGriz75 said:
grzz said:
I don't blame him for that. Should he have possibly acknowledged the two that have confirmed it? Maybe, but he was clearly distracted by the reports of his players being cut that actually haven't been, and how it will impact them. Seems pretty reasonable to me, actually.
Well, this is fan blindness. He didn't need to be distracted by anything. If he had simply done the right thing in the first place, there was nothing to be distracted from, there was no controversy, no misnamed players, no temper tantrum at press conference, nothing.

This isn't rocket science. It's basic common sense and decency to the kids. It's not the end of the world, its the passing stupidity that any of this had to come up at all. It was a waste of time and the waste of a press conference opportunity. Willy Pflug and Chris Parker handled this with considerable class, and the coach still refused a direct question to even publicly acknowledge them out of anger at Colter Nuanez. Well, I guess he taught those boys a real lesson about being recruited by the University of Montana.

Good luck guys, sorry it didn't work out for you, but we appreciate your hard work, dedication and your contributions to the team and to the University of Montana. Best wishes for your future endeavors.

There. See. Somebody finally said it.

1) In typical 75 fashion, you select one part of a post to respond to and completely ignore any other valid points.

2) You really think a coach not talking about cutting players is going to harm recruiting? He sits down in a house, a parent asks him about this, and he says "I will never comment on a student athlete leaving the team in any way that diminishes them or their talent. I will take the criticism and not air any criticism or implication that they were not talented enough to play here publicly." PlayerRep's post above this kind of backs up this point.

I think that he can explain this as having his player's backs fairly easily. And before you jump all over this and say he is cutting kids in the first place. That happens at every college team in America every year.

Let your Stitt hate shine through.
 
stubbins said:
Your problem is that you have some sort of grievance against Stitt. There is nothing he will do for the rest of his life that you will agree with, it is very apparent. Can you just agree that you disagree with every decision he makes? That way we don't have to waddle through the same ole tired bullshit every 5th post...? Please?
You have your own agenda; that the coach can do no wrong. I am discussing a specific situation. Can we just assume that every post you make will support anything and everything Stitt does? That way we don't have to wade through the same old tired BS about how great, perfect and wonderful every coach is every day all the time no matter what?

See how that works?
 
grzz said:
Let your Stitt hate shine through.

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