Harsh reality on roster changes

[grizfan95]

And let's not forget that Stitt has 4 less schollies to offer to beef up his recruits---- thanks to Royce's kowtow to the federales.

1 more year left of that crap I believe - can't come soon enough.

Still, the after effects of that won't be washed away until the 2020 season!!! That is when this reduced scholarship class will graduate...

 

[mtgriz]

Even our conference rivals will concede that the Griz forced them to step it up. Now we need the NDSU's and such to elevate the Griz to a new level.

 

[Griz1]

Wanting and getting are 2 different things. We may want the best recruit (and who doesn't) but we can't necessarily get a better one. Maybe in the past we took the best player available that we could get without addressing position needs leading to a lack of depth.

IMO we must (1) identify our position needs and go after those players (they may not be better than what we have now but they do address a lack of depth that we faced this year and paid for) and (2) market ourselves differently to the players, their parents and their coaches. I am sure all programs do the marketing, however, this is a business where the best marketer will win. Maybe Coach is changing our marketing approach as he did with Dalton Daum and will be more successful with a new approach that what we have used in the past. With the community support at 25,000 per home game, the stadium we have, the academic center and the athletic center on the near horizon we should have a distinct advantage. I certainly hope we take advantage of that.

To me "drop downs" are fill in the blanks. Our best players through the years, and there are always exceptions, have been high school seniors that have developed through their careers here. I would think that notable exceptions to that has been on the offensive side of the football with such players like Douglas, Miller, Van, Ochs, Quinn, Horn, Jones, etc. But if one simply looks at a list of our all-americans, all-conference and players that have gone on to play professional football the majority of them by far are high school seniors that redshirted and spent 5 years in this program.

 

[BWahlberg]

And let's not forget that Stitt has 4 less schollies to offer to beef up his recruits---- thanks to Royce's kowtow to the federales.

1 more year left of that crap I believe - can't come soon enough.

Still, the after effects of that won't be washed away until the 2020 season!!! That is when this reduced scholarship class will graduate...

Well yeah... but they'll be able to use those 4 right away, so they could split them among JCs and drop downs or go after a few more in-state kids. The impact will be seen right away I think.

 

[mikegriz]

Changing up my tone here a bit as the resident sugarcoater.

I've been reflecting on the rumors of impending roster changes. While no names were mentioned in Stitt's end of season press conference yesterday it seems that at the very least there's a few upcoming changes - if not more to be seen later. And while I'm going to bet that there's chances for redemption in the winter and spring workouts and camp - this coaching staff is recognizing something with the current Grizzly roster. It's not good enough for deep playoff runs. And in the broader picture we're seeing that most Big Sky rosters aren't equipped for that either.

This last weekend we met the current pinnacle of championship rosters and were dominated. Yes we caught this same team on it's heels in week 1 - but this time, when the matchup carried more weight, NDSU rolled. They're the benchmark. Other teams as well have shown regular playoff success of late, teams like UNI, SHSU, and Illinois State. I'd argue recently Coastal Carolina as well, although they got bounced in week 1 this year.

These are the types of rosters to aspire to for more playoff success than we've seen in the last 3 years. And my hope is that some upcoming changes, the new recruits, and a full off-season with this staff is going to focus on that.

One could probably argue the current roster is built for what it's done. A regular season mixed with some good wins, some frustrating losses, generally lower performance on the road, limited depth, and quick exits from the playoffs.

Stitt and company presumably see this too and are making plans to improve this team. It's going to be messy, it's going to piss some people off, but in the end Griz fans may really like the result.

Go Griz!

For those of us who did not catch the press conference, care to speculate on roster changes? The NDSU game reminded me that some things (tiny running backs, athletic but relatively light LBs and DEs) that have practically been Griz traditions sometimes leave us looking pretty puny when we get out of conference.

 

[BWahlberg]

To me "drop downs" are fill in the blanks. Our best players through the years, and there are always exceptions, have been high school seniors that have developed through their careers here. I would think that notable exceptions to that has been on the offensive side of the football with such players like Douglas, Miller, Van, Ochs, Quinn, Horn, Jones, etc. But if one simply looks at a list of our all-americans, all-conference and players that have gone on to play professional football the majority of them by far are high school seniors that redshirted and spent 5 years in this program.

If you use the "have gone to the pros" as a measuring stick then yeah you're right. But I think many drop downs come in as great immediate help. This team had KVA, Jamaal Jones, Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Jamal Wilson, Ben Roberts (kind of), and Daniel Sullivan. All were key guys - only Markell was a backup, but rotated a lot and did ST.

KVA and Jamaal should get a shot at the pros too. I think we've had many drop downs or JuCos that have worked out well, finished on the all-conference list, and were missed once gone.

 

[Griz1]

To me "drop downs" are fill in the blanks. Our best players through the years, and there are always exceptions, have been high school seniors that have developed through their careers here. I would think that notable exceptions to that has been on the offensive side of the football with such players like Douglas, Miller, Van, Ochs, Quinn, Horn, Jones, etc. But if one simply looks at a list of our all-americans, all-conference and players that have gone on to play professional football the majority of them by far are high school seniors that redshirted and spent 5 years in this program.

If you use the "have gone to the pros" as a measuring stick then yeah you're right. But I think many drop downs come in as great immediate help. This team had KVA, Jamaal Jones, Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Jamal Wilson, Ben Roberts (kind of), and Daniel Sullivan. All were key guys - only Markell was a backup, but rotated a lot and did ST.

KVA and Jamaal should get a shot at the pros too. I think we've had many drop downs or JuCos that have worked out well, finished on the all-conference list, and were missed once gone.

Go to the yearbook and look at page numbers 103 and 104 for a list of Montana All-Americans. I didn't count them but don't think you will find more than a half dozen drop down players. Some may have been an All-American more than 1 time but I am talking about numbers. Those are the facts.

I am not saying drop downs are not an immediate help. That is why we get them. I am saying over a program's life they are not as highly rated over their careers with awards as a high school senior who completes their career as a Griz. Again there are always exceptions. Percentage wise they fill in nicely, and I won't argue that, but a program is built from the ground up.

 

[griz5700]

The loss at NDSU was as much the coaches fault as it was the talent of the players.

Stitt was not prepared in the slightest for the defensive looks NDSU gave and he wasn't able to make any in game adjustments. The NDSU DC just worked Stitt over.

Can he handle being a D1 head coach (driving 4K miles around MT) as well as lead this offense? After watching the last press conference, I'm thinking he's in way over his head.

 

[Ken Jones]

To me "drop downs" are fill in the blanks. Our best players through the years, and there are always exceptions, have been high school seniors that have developed through their careers here. I would think that notable exceptions to that has been on the offensive side of the football with such players like Douglas, Miller, Van, Ochs, Quinn, Horn, Jones, etc. But if one simply looks at a list of our all-americans, all-conference and players that have gone on to play professional football the majority of them by far are high school seniors that redshirted and spent 5 years in this program.

If you use the "have gone to the pros" as a measuring stick then yeah you're right. But I think many drop downs come in as great immediate help. This team had KVA, Jamaal Jones, Yamen Sanders, Markell Sanders, Jamal Wilson, Ben Roberts (kind of), and Daniel Sullivan. All were key guys - only Markell was a backup, but rotated a lot and did ST.

KVA and Jamaal should get a shot at the pros too. I think we've had many drop downs or JuCos that have worked out well, finished on the all-conference list, and were missed once gone.

Some of those "fill in the blanks" are 1s and 2s that strengthen a team's endurance and bolster the depth of a team's roster.

Talent comes from everywhere and can enhance a team's ability to win, high school, JUCO or transfers.

 

[UMGriz75]

Harsh reality?

I suppose when a program and a team induces a bright-eyed 17 year old kid to change his whole life for it on the offer of a scholarship and a chance to "play the game," and then yank it without a play, yeah that qualifies as a "harsh reality" and don't expect the survivors and his friends on the team to take speeches about loyalty, honor and integrity all that seriously the next time coach wants to offer an inspiring moment. Or their high school coaches next time you come calling. The word gets out, "loyalty is not a two way street."

On the other hand, we cut 15 players after spring camp. Nobody seemed to concerned about "harsh realities" then. Is cutting two now, pretending you didn't at an angry press conference, then announcing that there will be more later "something new?"

I think everyone expects cuts. Jack Welch cut the bottom 10% every year at GE. It's the only way to move forward.

But, there can be a price to pay. Depends on the "how." Not sure why this week made such an uproar when nobody offered much of a peep last spring.

I suppose it may be the "anger" element. A coach earning $300,000 is angry and even indignant about the way his decision was mangled, to summarily chop off an 18 year old kid who pledged his college career to your care, and earned nothing for the privilege?

There's a bigger world out there, of parents, taxpayers, donors, students and recruits. Appearances are important. Angry petulant coaches blaming the media for his problems don't sell well. Reading other reactions elsewhere, I see that was a take-away by most observers.

That's a "harsh reality."

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Harsh reality?

I suppose when a program and a team induces a bright-eyed 17 year old kid to change his whole life for it on the offer of a scholarship and a chance to "play the game," and then yank it without a play, yeah that qualifies as a "harsh reality" and don't expect the survivors and his friends on the team to take speeches about loyalty, honor and integrity all that seriously the next time coach wants to offer an inspiring moment. Or their high school coaches next time you come calling. The word gets out, "loyalty is not a two way street."

On the other hand, we cut 15 players after spring camp. Nobody seemed to concerned about "harsh realities" then. Is cutting two now, pretending you didn't at an angry press conference, then announcing that there will be more later "something new?"

I think everyone expects cuts. Jack Welch cut the bottom 10% every year at GE. It's the only way to move forward.

But, there can be a price to pay. Depends on the "how." Not sure why this week made such an uproar when nobody offered much of a peep last spring.

I suppose it may be the "anger" element. A coach earning $300,000 is angry and even indignant about the way his decision was mangled, to summarily chop off an 18 year old kid who pledged his college career to your care, and earned nothing for the privilege?

There's a bigger world out there, of parents, taxpayers, donors, students and recruits. Appearances are important. Angry petulant coaches blaming the media for his problems don't sell well. Reading other reactions elsewhere, I see that was a take-away by most observers.

That's a "harsh reality."

What were you watching? Stitt did not pretend that he did not cut any players. I also believe that your reaction to how future recruits, parents, and coaches will react is completely overblown.

 

[MissoulaMarinerFan]

Harsh reality?

I suppose when a program and a team induces a bright-eyed 17 year old kid to change his whole life for it on the offer of a scholarship and a chance to "play the game," and then yank it without a play, yeah that qualifies as a "harsh reality" and don't expect the survivors and his friends on the team to take speeches about loyalty, honor and integrity all that seriously the next time coach wants to offer an inspiring moment. Or their high school coaches next time you come calling. The word gets out, "loyalty is not a two way street."

On the other hand, we cut 15 players after spring camp. Nobody seemed to concerned about "harsh realities" then. Is cutting two now, pretending you didn't at an angry press conference, then announcing that there will be more later "something new?"

I think everyone expects cuts. Jack Welch cut the bottom 10% every year at GE. It's the only way to move forward.

But, there can be a price to pay. Depends on the "how." Not sure why this week made such an uproar when nobody offered much of a peep last spring.

I suppose it may be the "anger" element. A coach earning $300,000 is angry and even indignant about the way his decision was mangled, to summarily chop off an 18 year old kid who pledged his college career to your care, and earned nothing for the privilege?

There's a bigger world out there, of parents, taxpayers, donors, students and recruits. Appearances are important. Angry petulant coaches blaming the media for his problems don't sell well. Reading other reactions elsewhere, I see that was a take-away by most observers.

That's a "harsh reality."

Well, welcome to the world of "non major" sports. It is what it is. Someone outworks you, they get your scholly - you outwork them, you can get it back.

 

[kemajic]

Harsh reality?

I suppose when a program and a team induces a bright-eyed 17 year old kid to change his whole life for it on the offer of a scholarship and a chance to "play the game," and then yank it without a play, yeah that qualifies as a "harsh reality" and don't expect the survivors and his friends on the team to take speeches about loyalty, honor and integrity all that seriously the next time coach wants to offer an inspiring moment. Or their high school coaches next time you come calling. The word gets out, "loyalty is not a two way street."

On the other hand, we cut 15 players after spring camp. Nobody seemed to concerned about "harsh realities" then. Is cutting two now, pretending you didn't at an angry press conference, then announcing that there will be more later "something new?"

I think everyone expects cuts. Jack Welch cut the bottom 10% every year at GE. It's the only way to move forward.

But, there can be a price to pay. Depends on the "how." Not sure why this week made such an uproar when nobody offered much of a peep last spring.

I suppose it may be the "anger" element. A coach earning $300,000 is angry and even indignant about the way his decision was mangled, to summarily chop off an 18 year old kid who pledged his college career to your care, and earned nothing for the privilege?

There's a bigger world out there, of parents, taxpayers, donors, students and recruits. Appearances are important. Angry petulant coaches blaming the media for his problems don't sell well. Reading other reactions elsewhere, I see that was a take-away by most observers.

That's a "harsh reality."

It's simpler than that. Harsh reality is an 18 year old kid with 4 years of eligibility left with a chance to hook on to a situation wherein he will have a better chance to compete in the "bigger world" (win/win) - or - stay and occupy a full schollie as a 4th stringer (lose/lose).

 

[grizatwork]

And let's not forget that Stitt has 4 less schollies to offer to beef up his recruits---- thanks to Royce's kowtow to the federales.

Why do people think our loss of scholarships has anything to do with Engstrom' s capitulation to the Feds. Our loss of scholarships was handed down by the NCAA. A private agency much more heavy handed and arbitrary than the federal government.

 

[grizindabox]

And let's not forget that Stitt has 4 less schollies to offer to beef up his recruits---- thanks to Royce's kowtow to the federales.

Why do people think our loss of scholarships has anything to do with Engstrom' s capitulation to the Feds. Our loss of scholarships was handed down by the NCAA. A private agency much more heavy handed and arbitrary than the federal government.

Actually, the NCAA just agreed with the scholarship reductions that Montana proposed as self-imposed punishment.....what RE agreed to....

 

[grizatwork]

The loss at NDSU was as much the coaches fault as it was the talent of the players.

Stitt was not prepared in the slightest for the defensive looks NDSU gave and he wasn't able to make any in game adjustments. The NDSU DC just worked Stitt over.

Can he handle being a D1 head coach (driving 4K miles around MT) as well as lead this offense? After watching the last press conference, I'm thinking he's in way over his head.

You can't make chicken salad with chicken sh!t. Didn't matter what he did. Their roster is better top to bottom than everyone's in FCS.

 

[Fahque]

OK.....who jacked Wahlberg account?

Growler - he was right when he said it was his last post, now he's just hacked this account.

Now it all makes perfect sense, even though he posted again after saying he wouldnt.

It's like peeing on an electric fence.........

Someone else has done that too. Wonder who that was?

 

[griz5700]

The loss at NDSU was as much the coaches fault as it was the talent of the players.

Stitt was not prepared in the slightest for the defensive looks NDSU gave and he wasn't able to make any in game adjustments. The NDSU DC just worked Stitt over.

Can he handle being a D1 head coach (driving 4K miles around MT) as well as lead this offense? After watching the last press conference, I'm thinking he's in way over his head.

You can't make chicken salad with chicken sh!t. Didn't matter what he did. Their roster is better top to bottom than everyone's in FCS.

Bullsh*t.

If that was the case they would have kicked our ass in August.

 

[grizindabox]

The loss at NDSU was as much the coaches fault as it was the talent of the players.

Stitt was not prepared in the slightest for the defensive looks NDSU gave and he wasn't able to make any in game adjustments. The NDSU DC just worked Stitt over.

Can he handle being a D1 head coach (driving 4K miles around MT) as well as lead this offense? After watching the last press conference, I'm thinking he's in way over his head.

You can't make chicken salad with chicken sh!t. Didn't matter what he did. Their roster is better top to bottom than everyone's in FCS.

Bullsh*t.

If that was the case they would have kicked our ass in August.

I guess Weber, Liberty, and Cal-Poly are as talented as NDSU also.......because it isn't possible for a team to play poorly and lose to a team with less talent.....can't happen.....

 

[UMGriz75]

On the other hand, we cut 15 players after spring camp. Nobody seemed to concerned about "harsh realities" then. Is cutting two now, pretending you didn't at an angry press conference, then announcing that there will be more later "something new?"

What were you watching? Stitt did not pretend that he did not cut any players. I also believe that your reaction to how future recruits, parents, and coaches will react is completely overblown.

At approximately minute 8 in the press conference, when asked about cuts, he said "I have no comment on the roster. The roster will be set at spring ball."

Just not true.

Two cut players did have public comment, and that wasn't by any way of deleted tweets.