Griz have one of toughest schedules in FCS

[Proud Griz Man]

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=uWlfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3C4MAAAAIBAJ&pg=2237%2C3318673

In 1985 the Griz opened with two 1-A games, and while I don't remember the names/numbers of those injured, it was significant (especially after the Minnesota game). To make matters worse, then Don Read and Portland State beat the Griz the subsequent saturday. That started the events that led to Donovan out & Read in.

 

[Missoula223]

Who are players we have lost while playing playing an FBS team? I can’t think of ANY. Football does not become more dangerous when you play a better team.

I cover this in another post but in the last 5 play up games going back to 2005, we lost Loren Utterbeck for a few games and our punter for the season in 2006. In the last 3 games (Tennessee, Wyoming, and UW) we haven't lost a starter for more than the next game and the Griz are undefeated in those next games. Of course I did all this work because I'm trying to show actual evidence to PlayerRep, which is a waste of time because "I never played the game".

How many snaps has Rensvold taken since Oregon game? Hmmm wonder why.

If the Griz played against 1st graders, would the 1st graders be more likely to get hurt than if they played against other 1st graders?

If we had played another FCS opponent, would we more likely have won or lost that game? I think a win in that game would make us currently undefeated which is great I guess, but FBS losses are also really cool to have.

Playing Oregon, and playing well, has made us a better football team. Our ranking improved and Oregon's went down. There has yet to be any statistically significant data provided that playing FBS games increases injuries. If all you can claim is an anecdote (Rensvold), I can counter with Phillips, who played the Washington game (where we did not play well) without incident, then went down the next week to a career-ending injury to Savannah St.

This response didn't answer any of the questions that I asked.

I don't know how a single player remaining healthy during a game strengthens your argument I guess. In any game, players should remain healthy, but it's a significant detriment when players get hurt.

 

[SaskGriz]

Listening to opponents of scheduling FBS teams, most of our team will be out for the season after the Oregon game due to injuries.

Who are players we have lost while playing playing an FBS team? I can’t think of ANY. Football does not become more dangerous when you play a better team.

I cover this in another post but in the last 5 play up games going back to 2005, we lost Loren Utterbeck for a few games and our punter for the season in 2006. In the last 3 games (Tennessee, Wyoming, and UW) we haven't lost a starter for more than the next game and the Griz are undefeated in those next games. Of course I did all this work because I'm trying to show actual evidence to PlayerRep, which is a waste of time because "I never played the game".

How many snaps has Rensvold taken since Oregon game? Hmmm wonder why.

If the Griz played against 1st graders, would the 1st graders be more likely to get hurt than if they played against other 1st graders?

If we had played another FCS opponent, would we more likely have won or lost that game? I think a win in that game would make us currently undefeated which is great I guess, but FBS losses are also really cool to have.

Okay, first, I never made a statement about whether playing an FBS opponent was a good idea. I was only addressing the fallacy that it leads to more injuries than playing any other particular football game.

Secondly, one injury to a single player in a single football game is not proof of anything. Gavin Crow hasn't played a down since UNA, by your logic we should not play FCS teams from States that fought for the South in the Civil War because it led to a single injury.

"If the Griz played against 1st graders......" was your point here that the gap between Montana and Oregon is the same as the gap between 6 year olds and the Griz? If that is your contention I would suggest you study the rosters more closely to see heights,weights,and ages. For comparisons sake you could go to a playground and study first graders but that can lead to a whole other set of issues, so maybe just take someone's word for it, they aren't very big or old.

 

[Proud Griz Man]

It is a very Small sample size, but during the 1st grade year (facing comparable competition) we had zero concussions, no torn knee ACLs, no high ankle sprains, no broken wrists, no shoulder stingers, no thigh contusions. Little Johnny did get a scraped knee that required a couple band-aids

If the Griz played against 1st graders, would the 1st graders be more likely to get hurt than if they played against other 1st graders?

Playing Oregon, and playing well, has made us a better football team. Our ranking improved and Oregon's went down. There has yet to be any statistically significant data provided that playing FBS games increases injuries. If all you can claim is an anecdote (Rensvold), I can counter with Phillips, who played the Washington game (where we did not play well) without incident, then went down the next week to a career-ending injury to Savannah St.

This response didn't answer any of the questions that I asked.

I don't know how a single player remaining healthy during a game strengthens your argument I guess. In any game, players should remain healthy, but it's a significant detriment when players get hurt.

 

[mtgriz]

That is rough, don’t remember that many injuries. I should have clarified I don’t remember one guy we lost for the year in one of those games.

I was at a griz vs Washington state game in Pullman and we lost our kick returner not only for the season but forever on the opening kickoff, it was brutal.

Was there as well. If not for a phantom offensive pass interference call on a touchdown to take the lead, Griz might have won that game.

I don't remember that. We lost by a couple of touchdowns. I wish I could remember the name of our kick returner that was hammered so hard.

I think it was Scott Spraggins. I might have the last name wrong though. He was from Great Falls.

 

[Missoula223]

Who are players we have lost while playing playing an FBS team? I can’t think of ANY. Football does not become more dangerous when you play a better team.

I cover this in another post but in the last 5 play up games going back to 2005, we lost Loren Utterbeck for a few games and our punter for the season in 2006. In the last 3 games (Tennessee, Wyoming, and UW) we haven't lost a starter for more than the next game and the Griz are undefeated in those next games. Of course I did all this work because I'm trying to show actual evidence to PlayerRep, which is a waste of time because "I never played the game".

How many snaps has Rensvold taken since Oregon game? Hmmm wonder why.

If the Griz played against 1st graders, would the 1st graders be more likely to get hurt than if they played against other 1st graders?

If we had played another FCS opponent, would we more likely have won or lost that game? I think a win in that game would make us currently undefeated which is great I guess, but FBS losses are also really cool to have.

Okay, first, I never made a statement about whether playing an FBS opponent was a good idea. I was only addressing the fallacy that it leads to more injuries than playing any other particular football game.

Secondly, one injury to a single player in a single football game is not proof of anything. Gavin Crow hasn't played a down since UNA, by your logic we should not play FCS teams from States that fought for the South in the Civil War because it led to a single injury.

"If the Griz played against 1st graders......" was your point here that the gap between Montana and Oregon is the same as the gap between 6 year olds and the Griz? If that is your contention I would suggest you study the rosters more closely to see heights,weights,and ages. For comparisons sake you could go to a playground and study first graders but that can lead to a whole other set of issues, so maybe just take someone's word for it, they aren't very big or old.

Honestly I was addressing spankys dumbass more than you. I don't disagree, injuries can happen in any game. In fact, I'll even say injuries is one of the weaker arguments I would have against playing a team like Oregon. I would address finances, home games, and how FCS wins are better for us than an FBS loss. I don't think it is a fallacy however.

My point was not that there is the same gap, but as differential in size, speed, and strength increases, so does the likelihood of injury. The example I used was on the far end of the spectrum, but the point is is there would likely be a lot of first graders hurt in that fantasy of a game. Agreed?

 

[ilovethecats]

My point was not that there is the same gap, but as differential in size, speed, and strength increases, so does the likelihood of injury. The example I used was on the far end of the spectrum, but the point is is there would likely be a lot of first graders hurt in that fantasy of a game. Agreed?

There's a reason you used such a far-fetched example though. Because your argument doesn't hold water. There is no evidence to suggest that more injuries occur when smaller division one schools play bigger division one schools.

I'd maintain, that in your asinine example no first graders would be hurt either as the college team would be so much bigger, stronger, faster that they wouldn't have to do anything to the young kids and still win 200-0. Stupid example.

Now, if someone was dumb enough to schedule a college team against a high school team, I'd concur high school kids would be very likely to be injured. The size difference across the board save for maybe one or two players would be extreme.

This isn't the case in college. You have guys on the Griz squad bigger than players on Oregon. You have guys who are taller. Weigh more. Bench press more weight. What you don't have is the depth of these teams.

Why do people keep banging this drum with no evidence out there whatsoever that suggests FCS teams are more likely to be injured playing FBS teams?

 

[Raider]

My point was not that there is the same gap, but as differential in size, speed, and strength increases, so does the likelihood of injury. The example I used was on the far end of the spectrum, but the point is is there would likely be a lot of first graders hurt in that fantasy of a game. Agreed?

There's a reason you used such a far-fetched example though. Because your argument doesn't hold water. There is no evidence to suggest that more injuries occur when smaller division one schools play bigger division one schools.

I'd maintain, that in your asinine example no first graders would be hurt either as the college team would be so much bigger, stronger, faster that they wouldn't have to do anything to the young kids and still win 200-0. Stupid example.

Now, if someone was dumb enough to schedule a college team against a high school team, I'd concur high school kids would be very likely to be injured. The size difference across the board save for maybe one or two players would be extreme.

This isn't the case in college. You have guys on the Griz squad bigger than players on Oregon. You have guys who are taller. Weigh more. Bench press more weight. What you don't have is the depth of these teams.

Why do people keep banging this drum with no evidence out there whatsoever that suggests FCS teams are more likely to be injured playing FBS teams?

Great post. Spot on, from a factual perspective.

Unfortunately this is an unwinnable argument here on e-griz, and in the top 5 dumbest discussions that goes on here. Good luck.........

 

[Missoula223]

My point was not that there is the same gap, but as differential in size, speed, and strength increases, so does the likelihood of injury. The example I used was on the far end of the spectrum, but the point is is there would likely be a lot of first graders hurt in that fantasy of a game. Agreed?

There's a reason you used such a far-fetched example though. Because your argument doesn't hold water. There is no evidence to suggest that more injuries occur when smaller division one schools play bigger division one schools.

I'd maintain, that in your asinine example no first graders would be hurt either as the college team would be so much bigger, stronger, faster that they wouldn't have to do anything to the young kids and still win 200-0. Stupid example.

Now, if someone was dumb enough to schedule a college team against a high school team, I'd concur high school kids would be very likely to be injured. The size difference across the board save for maybe one or two players would be extreme.

This isn't the case in college. You have guys on the Griz squad bigger than players on Oregon. You have guys who are taller. Weigh more. Bench press more weight. What you don't have is the depth of these teams.

Why do people keep banging this drum with no evidence out there whatsoever that suggests FCS teams are more likely to be injured playing FBS teams?

No it's simple math analytics. When looking at correlations you look at what occurs when you reach an extreme, in this case, vs 1st graders. But regardless, as differential in size, speed, and strength increase, so does the probability of an injury to that of the lesser of those. It's common sense that in my example, injuries to the first graders would be very probable. As the differential in those variables decrease, so does the likelihood of injury. 5th graders would be less likely to get injured than the 1st graders. High school kids would be less likely to get injured and so on and so forth.

There's no evidence because no one has done an in depth study on the matter, but a lack of experiment doesn't automatically deem it untrue. I could also say there is no evidence to say there is no evidence to your argument because a study of it hasn't been done. That simply doesn't make either of us right, but the logistics of it is what you have to look at.

"You have guys on the Griz squad bigger than players on Oregon. You have guys who are taller. Weigh more. Bench press more weight." These are outliers. And depth is what we are missing? How many of the Griz players would start for Oregon? Very few if any. No matter how deep we were there would be little chance of success because the Oregon players are bigger, stronger, and more athletic as a whole. That's why they are playing there and not here.

"Why do people keep banging this drum with no evidence out there whatsoever that suggests FCS teams are more likely to be injured playing FBS teams?" Again, evidence comes from studies. If you have a study that proves your argument, show me and I would be interested in seeing that I'm wrong. I don't have a study either, but my argument logistically makes sense.

 

[grizindabox]

My hypothesis is the probability of injuries vs FBS vs FCS vs D2 are mathematically insignificant.

 

[Missoula223]

My hypothesis is the probability of injuries vs FBS vs FCS vs D2 are mathematically insignificant.

Lol. The definition of significance in an experiment like such is a whole new ball game.

What would your hypothesis be in FBS vs D2 schools? Or vs D3 / NAIA schools? Where does the significance start in your opinion.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

If the Patriots played a team of infants, I don't think there would be any injuries.

Edit: I'm serious about this. There would be no reason for contact in the game, so I don't really understand the first grader example.

 

[grizindabox]

My hypothesis is the probability of injuries vs FBS vs FCS vs D2 are mathematically insignificant.

Lol. The definition of significance in an experiment like such is a whole new ball game.

What would your hypothesis be in FBS vs D2 schools? Or vs D3 / NAIA schools? Where does the significance start in your opinion.

My hypothesis is based strictly on FCS playing either FBS or D2 schools. But I did see a nasty bloody nose in a Parents against 3rd grader soccer game....horrible.

 

[Missoula223]

My hypothesis is the probability of injuries vs FBS vs FCS vs D2 are mathematically insignificant.

Lol. The definition of significance in an experiment like such is a whole new ball game.

What would your hypothesis be in FBS vs D2 schools? Or vs D3 / NAIA schools? Where does the significance start in your opinion.

My hypothesis is based strictly on FCS playing either FBS or D2 schools. But I did see a nasty bloody nose in a Parents against 3rd grader soccer game....horrible.

Haha so you won't answer to what it would be if an FBS school were playing a D2 or NAIA school? Hmm wonder why.

 

[grizindabox]

My hypothesis is the probability of injuries vs FBS vs FCS vs D2 are mathematically insignificant.

Lol. The definition of significance in an experiment like such is a whole new ball game.

What would your hypothesis be in FBS vs D2 schools? Or vs D3 / NAIA schools? Where does the significance start in your opinion.

My hypothesis is based strictly on FCS playing either FBS or D2 schools. But I did see a nasty bloody nose in a Parents against 3rd grader soccer game....horrible.

Haha so you won't answer to what it would be if an FBS school were playing a D2 or NAIA school? Hmm wonder why.

Because it doesn't matter. When does a FBS school play a D2 or NAIA school? Exactly.

 

[PlayerRep]

I base my views on having talked to coaches and AD's over the years, observation, and common sense.

10 injuries against Oregon several years ago, and one or two or so this year. Average of a half dozen. That's more than the average of FCS and D-II games.

 

[ilovethecats]

If the Patriots played a team of infants, I don't think there would be any injuries.

Edit: I'm serious about this. There would be no reason for contact in the game, so I don't really understand the first grader example.

I said the same thing. Terrible example

 

[Missoula223]

Lol. The definition of significance in an experiment like such is a whole new ball game.

What would your hypothesis be in FBS vs D2 schools? Or vs D3 / NAIA schools? Where does the significance start in your opinion.

My hypothesis is based strictly on FCS playing either FBS or D2 schools. But I did see a nasty bloody nose in a Parents against 3rd grader soccer game....horrible.

Haha so you won't answer to what it would be if an FBS school were playing a D2 or NAIA school? Hmm wonder why.

Because it doesn't matter. When does a FBS school play a D2 or NAIA school? Exactly.

Are there any opinions on egriz that do matter? Does Coach Hauck check this board and make decisions based off what anyone says? Exactly.

But you continue to post on here ignorant to the fact that bigger, faster, and stronger teams will cause more injury to teams that are lesser of those 3 variables. You know more injuries would be caused to those NAIA schools if a said game were to be played. It's the same thought process but on a smaller scale because althought the differential is less between FCS schools and FBS schools, there is still a differential.

In your original hypothesis, you stated there would not be a significant correlation, but to any one that knows anything about football, 1 injury to a starter is significant.

 

[grizindabox]

My hypothesis is based strictly on FCS playing either FBS or D2 schools. But I did see a nasty bloody nose in a Parents against 3rd grader soccer game....horrible.

Haha so you won't answer to what it would be if an FBS school were playing a D2 or NAIA school? Hmm wonder why.

Because it doesn't matter. When does a FBS school play a D2 or NAIA school? Exactly.

Are there any opinions on egriz that do matter? Does Coach Hauck check this board and make decisions based off what anyone says? Exactly.

But you continue to post on here ignorant to the fact that bigger, faster, and stronger teams will cause more injury to teams that are lesser of those 3 variables. You know more injuries would be caused to those NAIA schools if a said game were to be played. It's the same thought process but on a smaller scale because althought the differential is less between FCS schools and FBS schools, there is still a differential.

In your original hypothesis, you stated there would not be a significant correlation, but to any one that knows anything about football, 1 injury to a starter is significant.

Do you really believe that the top 30 guys on the Griz are so weak and nonathletic when compared to the top 30 guys at Oregon that they should be scared of getting hurt? If so, maybe they shouldn't play. My take, is that the difference is so minor, it is insignificant when it comes to injuries, and a guy has pretty much an identical chance of getting hurt playing down as playing up. As for your example of NAIA vs FBS, dude, that is like unicorns, it is a fairy tale, it doesn't happen.

 

[Missoula223]

Haha so you won't answer to what it would be if an FBS school were playing a D2 or NAIA school? Hmm wonder why.

Because it doesn't matter. When does a FBS school play a D2 or NAIA school? Exactly.

Are there any opinions on egriz that do matter? Does Coach Hauck check this board and make decisions based off what anyone says? Exactly.

But you continue to post on here ignorant to the fact that bigger, faster, and stronger teams will cause more injury to teams that are lesser of those 3 variables. You know more injuries would be caused to those NAIA schools if a said game were to be played. It's the same thought process but on a smaller scale because althought the differential is less between FCS schools and FBS schools, there is still a differential.

In your original hypothesis, you stated there would not be a significant correlation, but to any one that knows anything about football, 1 injury to a starter is significant.

Do you really believe that the top 30 guys on the Griz are so weak and nonathletic when compared to the top 30 guys at Oregon that they should be scared of getting hurt? If so, maybe they shouldn't play. My take, is that the difference is so minor, it is insignificant when it comes to injuries, and a guy has pretty much an identical chance of getting hurt playing down as playing up. As for your example of NAIA vs FBS, dude, that is like unicorns, it is a fairy tale, it doesn't happen.

Never did I say they should be scared of getting hurt, but didn't you see we got beat by 35. That's just a better football team that's not coaching that's one team being bigger, faster, and stronger.

The argument is whether there is an increase in probability of injury or not. I don't think its a great reason to not play those teams, but that is what is being discussed. My example is the same exact thing only taken to a more extreme end of the spectrum, but you won't answer it because you know it's true the NAIA team would suffer more injuries if there were a large enough sample pool. Insignificant or not it's increased and it's that simple.