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Griz - cat game
- Thread starter MikeyGriz
- Start date
mtgrizrule
Well-known member
fanofzoo said:
Yeah, those turnovers were horrible.
The fact that this team wasn't blown out is amazing.
grizzlyjournal
Well-known member
GRIZ-CAT STATS BREAKDOWN
I know a bit about sports sabermetrics and know that any hoops analyst examining the box score to this game (without actually watching the game) would conclude that there were indeed extenuating circumstances, given the huge disparity in “points at the ft line.”
Here are the full-game, box score essentials:
Field Goal % -- Griz 48/38.5; Cats 43.6/40
Rebounds – Griz 23; Cats 28
Assists – Griz 8/ Cats 8
Turnovers – Griz 15/ Cats 14
Treys – Griz 5/ Cats 6
Bench Points – Griz 13/ Cats 24
Points off Turnovers – Griz 11/ Cats 18
Points in Paint – Griz 28/ Cats 18
Fast Break Points – Griz 5/ Cats 13
Second Chance Points – Griz 7/ Cats 7
… and then we get to:
Field Goals – Griz 24-50 (5-13) Cats 17-39 (6-13)
Free Throws – Griz 15-17 Cats 32-41
I’ve read some comments here that indicate the Cats won because they were MORE aggressive; I’ve also read comments here that the Griz were TOO aggressive. So, which is it?
My conclusion: an inconsistently called game which hurt the Griz significantly, but also affected the Cats, particularly Jubile Brelo.
The statistics above DO indicate an evenly played clash… until the fouls and free throws are compared. But despite being outscored by the Cats 32-15 at the ft line, the Griz in turn outscored the Cats 53-40 in actual field-goals-made points!
The naysayers on this board are welcome to conjure any fabricated analysis they’d like. Most of us who actually watched will conclude that it was a hard-fought and evenly played game with some wide swings in action where – despite the free-throw disparity -- the Griz had a good chance to win. If the Griz earn a chance to meet the Cats one more time this year on a neutral court, I’m going with Montana.
As for the naysayers on eGriz, I’d sincerely encourage you to quickly find a team that always plays the perfect game and is a lock to finish in the NCAA sweet 16.
Griz are my alma mater and my team. I’m with them for life.
I know a bit about sports sabermetrics and know that any hoops analyst examining the box score to this game (without actually watching the game) would conclude that there were indeed extenuating circumstances, given the huge disparity in “points at the ft line.”
Here are the full-game, box score essentials:
Field Goal % -- Griz 48/38.5; Cats 43.6/40
Rebounds – Griz 23; Cats 28
Assists – Griz 8/ Cats 8
Turnovers – Griz 15/ Cats 14
Treys – Griz 5/ Cats 6
Bench Points – Griz 13/ Cats 24
Points off Turnovers – Griz 11/ Cats 18
Points in Paint – Griz 28/ Cats 18
Fast Break Points – Griz 5/ Cats 13
Second Chance Points – Griz 7/ Cats 7
… and then we get to:
Field Goals – Griz 24-50 (5-13) Cats 17-39 (6-13)
Free Throws – Griz 15-17 Cats 32-41
I’ve read some comments here that indicate the Cats won because they were MORE aggressive; I’ve also read comments here that the Griz were TOO aggressive. So, which is it?
My conclusion: an inconsistently called game which hurt the Griz significantly, but also affected the Cats, particularly Jubile Brelo.
The statistics above DO indicate an evenly played clash… until the fouls and free throws are compared. But despite being outscored by the Cats 32-15 at the ft line, the Griz in turn outscored the Cats 53-40 in actual field-goals-made points!
The naysayers on this board are welcome to conjure any fabricated analysis they’d like. Most of us who actually watched will conclude that it was a hard-fought and evenly played game with some wide swings in action where – despite the free-throw disparity -- the Griz had a good chance to win. If the Griz earn a chance to meet the Cats one more time this year on a neutral court, I’m going with Montana.
As for the naysayers on eGriz, I’d sincerely encourage you to quickly find a team that always plays the perfect game and is a lock to finish in the NCAA sweet 16.
Griz are my alma mater and my team. I’m with them for life.
I made this point on twitter and I'll make it here:
MSU wasn't more aggressive in the first half, they were rewarded for entering the ball into the post. That isn't aggressive, it is facilitating a system where when mostly good defense is bailed out by contact first post moves. I go to the well a million times if you are going to whistle every into and then up post moves. Osobor had 1 shot last night, and was given a whistle on every other shot attempt. That is absurd.
The other part of it, when MSU has just to play 45 feet where they can get back and set their defense, and there is no flow, most teams are going to struggle to score. The constant stopping of the game in the first half clearly rewarded MSU's style and when you are allowed to to set it that doesn't ask you to recover...never after a missed shot that is an incredible advantage. The same is true for MSU transitioning from defense into offense during the same stretch.
When you look at the second half, with fewer whistles and only at points where there was a 'clear' advantage by the offense or defense, the flow of the game changed. You could make the argument that Montana was the better team in the second half. I'd make the argument that Montana was for most of the game, as it was in Missoula, a clear equal of MSU. Some really bad luck in both games led to the margin in MSU's favor.
I'd feel really good if I were the UM heading into the conference tournament knowing there isn't a team in the conference they couldn't hang with and beat.
MSU wasn't more aggressive in the first half, they were rewarded for entering the ball into the post. That isn't aggressive, it is facilitating a system where when mostly good defense is bailed out by contact first post moves. I go to the well a million times if you are going to whistle every into and then up post moves. Osobor had 1 shot last night, and was given a whistle on every other shot attempt. That is absurd.
The other part of it, when MSU has just to play 45 feet where they can get back and set their defense, and there is no flow, most teams are going to struggle to score. The constant stopping of the game in the first half clearly rewarded MSU's style and when you are allowed to to set it that doesn't ask you to recover...never after a missed shot that is an incredible advantage. The same is true for MSU transitioning from defense into offense during the same stretch.
When you look at the second half, with fewer whistles and only at points where there was a 'clear' advantage by the offense or defense, the flow of the game changed. You could make the argument that Montana was the better team in the second half. I'd make the argument that Montana was for most of the game, as it was in Missoula, a clear equal of MSU. Some really bad luck in both games led to the margin in MSU's favor.
I'd feel really good if I were the UM heading into the conference tournament knowing there isn't a team in the conference they couldn't hang with and beat.
IdaGriz01
Well-known member
When I looked at the box score for the first time, the game score was 26-21, cats …and 20 of their points had come from the free throw line. The Griz, I think, had 4 although it might have been only 2. When your game is based upon playing tough defense and the refs take that away, you’re in big trouble. Actually, it’s amazing that the Griz stayed as close as they did for as long as they did. The Griz staged the late close when the refs got more even-handed about handing out fouls.Grizfan-24 said:
oldrunner
Well-known member
I watched that game and thought it was as evenly called as possible. Yes, MSU got to the line more often in the first half and that was due to getting fouled in the act of shooting quite bit. MSU thought they had an advantage in the post, used that advantage, and consequently got to the line a lot more. UM has been relying heavily on their guard play and felt they had an advantage there. The game played out about how I thought it would. For UM to have won that game, the Griz would have to be much superior from the outside, and I would say that aspect of the game was fairly even.
Calling an even game does not mean that you call an equal number of fouls on each team. To me it means that what is a foul on one end of the floor is also a foul on the other end. Looking at it from that perspective, I think it was a well called game and a highly competitive game.
Anything can happen in Boise. I'm hoping for excellent Officiating in Boise.
Calling an even game does not mean that you call an equal number of fouls on each team. To me it means that what is a foul on one end of the floor is also a foul on the other end. Looking at it from that perspective, I think it was a well called game and a highly competitive game.
Anything can happen in Boise. I'm hoping for excellent Officiating in Boise.
Colter_Nuanez56
Well-known member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=uKYHzYmeSKw
…“Evenly called” is just absolute BS. Refs jumped at every opportunity to call an offensive foul or push off on the Griz. Even a questionable Moody leg kick where his leg never actually makes contact with the defender and is a no call. On the other hand, time after time, the Cats, namely Bello and Osober were hooking Griz defenders. Textbook offensive fouls and not a single time was it called. Of course the defender is going to eventually foul when they are thrown out of position by an elbow sweep through the ribs. You just can’t let that stuff go and call and iffy leg kick on the other end. Even the first time, Cats were jumping into Griz defenders to draw fouls. Those are no calls for any experienced and good reffing crew. Just terrible.
Can really tell who does and doesn’t understand basketball just from how they viewed this game, and the reffing in this conference. It’s not real basketball. There’s a reason every team to get to the ncaas in recent years gets their ass kicked. By no means was this even close to an evenly reffed game.oldrunner said:
Colter_Nuanez56
Well-known member
https://twitter.com/SkylineSportsMT/status/1627530589112004608
https://twitter.com/SkylineSportsMT/status/1627531647548817411
https://twitter.com/SkylineSportsMT/status/1627531647548817411
CopperGold14
Well-known member
UMFan12 said:
Weak post. EWU gave Kansas all they wanted in their first round matchup in 2021. The BSC is rated in the middle of all D1 conferences this season and EWU, they went down to Lubbock in December and only lost 77-70 to TTU.
The conference isn't amazing, but it doesn't suck like you say. Most of the teams in the BSC have excellent guard play, but not the size needed to compete against the P5 schools. If Eastern or the Cats make it out of Boise, there's a puncher's chance that either of them could give the right team a scare, but unlikely due to size matchup issues that they'll see with a 1, 2 or 3 seed in that first round game.
As far as your complaint about the reffing in the BSC, those guys are the same refs that call MWC, Pac 12, WAC, and every other game out West and through the Rocky Mtns. So it is actually you that don't understand college basketball dynamics.
3 wins as a conference in the tourney since 1985. Last win in 06.CopperGold14 said:
22- 97-62 L
21: 93-84 L
19: 74-55 L
18: 61-47 L
17: 100-82 L
16: 71-53 L
15: 84-74 L
14: 68-59 L
13: 81-34 L
12: 73-49 L
Laughable really. Only team keeping anyone under 90 in recent years has been the Griz. Defense in this league has gone to nothing. You know the reason. Don’t pretend that A- Big Sky gets last pick of the reffing pool and B-The other conferences on the west coast don’t consistently massively underperform in March with a few outlier years
Further expansion. Right equation, wrong answer on your part. Problems do start from the top down. West coast basketball has been soft and exposed in March yearly.UMFan12 said:
National champions since 00:
Big 12: 3
ACC: 9
Big 10: 2
SEC: 3
Big East: 5
PAC 12: 0
MWC: 0
Zags: 0
Conference of champions with 0 despite consistently having 5 star talents, Gonzaga exposed yearly on second weekends. Sure wonder what the problem could be
. Almost like everyone else is playing a different game.
GrizPony
Well-known member
UMFan12 said:
This is the absolute truth. Anyone that knows anything about basketball could see how uneven that game was called. Everything broke against the Griz. They didn't get one bad call their way. That crew is the worst in the Big Sky. They like making it all about them. All drama crew. And they hate Travis.
GrizPony
Well-known member
CopperGold14 said:
The entire West Coast has a rotation of refs, HOWEVER, the entire West Coast region has the most fouls and free throws by far. Of any region. Are you making the argument that west coast basketball is rougher and more aggressive than SEC? Big 10? Big 12? Our entire reffing pool out west is by far the most incompetent and weak. And the entire west coast usually gets blistered in the tournament because no one is used to playing tough basketball after the regular season. Our refs do not allow tough basketball to be played.
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