Fund-Raising Going South

[hawaiiangriz]

Don't believe I ever said BIGTime DONORS ever expected special treatment or in some way thought they could in some way 'steer the UM' in their direction. Just said, if you think BIGTIME donors have done nothing :shock: , that you'd better rethink your line of thinking..... That's all I said.....

 

['68griz]

Actually, I don't think Petrino was fired because he had a mistress. He was fired because he lied about the whole situation, and made no mention of a potential conflict of interest when he hired her to work for him. I mean, how stupid can you be?!?!

 

[Growler1]

Donors can piss and moan all they want but you are not buying your way into a university or college athletic program. It you donate money so that you can have a say in how a university is ran then you are heading down the wrong path. These BIG donors can easily pick up the phone to Engstrom and have his ear if they are truly that large and the school needs to coddle them to keep their support. You said it yourself, you can vote with your checkbook, however, donors are only hurting the existing kids who have brought nothing but effort and class to Montana athletics when they withhold a major donation that will make the U a better place.

Wonder how donations to Arkansas are going to go now that they got rid of their coach that just went 11-2, played in the Cotton bowl and were going to be in everyone's top 10 this year - all because he could not keep his zipper up.......

At least Arkansas donors, and fans, have been given a reason. Meanwhile, there is Montana, and still no reason(s) given. I think that makes it a lot easier for a donor to make a logical decision. It surely is better than, not knowing jack shit.

You whine more than Dolly Pardon PMS'ing. Engstrom doesn't owe you any explanation. If you had a brain, it would evident to you that there are already attorneys involved, and that anything he says in public may be used against him and UM. Figure it out already dude!

 

[mtgrizrule]

Donors can piss and moan all they want but you are not buying your way into a university or college athletic program. It you donate money so that you can have a say in how a university is ran then you are heading down the wrong path. These BIG donors can easily pick up the phone to Engstrom and have his ear if they are truly that large and the school needs to coddle them to keep their support. You said it yourself, you can vote with your checkbook, however, donors are only hurting the existing kids who have brought nothing but effort and class to Montana athletics when they withhold a major donation that will make the U a better place.

Wonder how donations to Arkansas are going to go now that they got rid of their coach that just went 11-2, played in the Cotton bowl and were going to be in everyone's top 10 this year - all because he could not keep his zipper up.......

At least Arkansas donors, and fans, have been given a reason. Meanwhile, there is Montana, and still no reason(s) given. I think that makes it a lot easier for a donor to make a logical decision. It surely is better than, not knowing jack shit.

You whine more than Dolly Pardon PMS'ing. Engstrom doesn't owe you any explanation. If you had a brain, it would evident to you that there are already attorneys involved, and that anything he says in public may be used against him and UM. Figure it out already dude!

Feel free to look at my posts just after this crap happened. I did post the reason behind this was due to legalities. I do know that. That does not mean, some of us want to know. Not one time, have I posted Engstrom has to let us know. You are a royal A S S

 

[putter]

Don't believe I ever said BIGTime DONORS ever expected special treatment or in some way thought they could in some way 'steer the UM' in their direction. Just said, if you think BIGTIME donors have done nothing :shock: , that you'd better rethink your line of thinking..... That's all I said.....

People know that there are big donors that have helped UM. I just feel that withholding renewing you tickets or not making a donation because of a firing is a little much. I know Jim and feel terrible for him but Engstrom had to know that this would be a huge deal and attorney's would be involved. No way I am giving any explanation if I am him with both Pflu and O'Day having retained counsel

 

[tnt]

What I get is donors are withholding their donations because:

1. The firings
2. Engstrom didn't tell the the reason for the firings (even though its illegal)
3. They are unsure of the direction of the program

I hate to try and sound reasonable here but what part of any of that tells you they don't expect special treatment (inside knowledge) or steer the direction of the program.

Whats fascinating to me is two successful fund raisers are gone gone and the money still came in (increasing BTW), a number of successful coaches are gone and the program got better. You bet they were nice guys but they weren't better than the program. If our future depends on Pflu and JOD, then we are are in deep doo.

BTW what is a big donor? Maybe the big ones do know. I was a fundraiser for a lot of years the first rule is what have you done for me lately but more importantly and what can you do for me in the future?

I don't suppose anyone remembers the weight room Tom Sherry bought and paid for? After Tom died not long after, they essentially took Joys tickets away (apparently they thought the well was dry.) Too bad though, it cost the department a lot of money. But they survived

 

[ranco]

Donors can piss and moan all they want but you are not buying your way into a university or college athletic program. It you donate money so that you can have a say in how a university is ran then you are heading down the wrong path. These BIG donors can easily pick up the phone to Engstrom and have his ear if they are truly that large and the school needs to coddle them to keep their support. You said it yourself, you can vote with your checkbook, however, donors are only hurting the existing kids who have brought nothing but effort and class to Montana athletics when they withhold a major donation that will make the U a better place.

Wonder how donations to Arkansas are going to go now that they got rid of their coach that just went 11-2, played in the Cotton bowl and were going to be in everyone's top 10 this year - all because he could not keep his zipper up.......

At least Arkansas donors, and fans, have been given a reason. Meanwhile, there is Montana, and still no reason(s) given. I think that makes it a lot easier for a donor to make a logical decision. It surely is better than, not knowing jack shit.

You whine more than Dolly Pardon PMS'ing. Engstrom doesn't owe you any explanation. If you had a brain, it would evident to you that there are already attorneys involved, and that anything he says in public may be used against him and UM. Figure it out already dude!

well said Hawaiiangriz. Growler, are you really that naive or are you just saying that to elicit responses? I sure hope its the latter.

 

[wbtfg]

Id say its fair to withhold donations until you know who's running the ship.

Has UM commenced a search for a new AD?

It would seem they would want that position filled within the next month or two.

 

[Grizzoola]

Don't believe I ever said BIGTime DONORS ever expected special treatment or in some way thought they could in some way 'steer the UM' in their direction. Just said, if you think BIGTIME donors have done nothing :shock: , that you'd better rethink your line of thinking..... That's all I said.....

Hawaiian, thanks for your remarks re: what big donors do for a football program. BTW, this discussion is applicable to all of college football: effect of big donors on college football programs.

In short, big donors, IMHO, are as much responsible for the corruption in college football programs as much as anyone else, if not more so.

Your clarification that "big" donors don't expect to influence player/coach personnel decisions is well taken, and that may be true in your case. I am not a donor to the UM football, or any athletic, program. My "donations" have been in buying tickets to Griz athletic events. We're both fans of the Griz, and I'm assuming you're a UM alum, like myself.

That said, my perception as an outsider of the Griz football program, is that, in light of the controversies in all college football programs, donors to football programs expect some results for their money, kind of like an investment, kind of like the bigger donor you are, the more "shares" you have in the "enterprise."
You associate with people involved with the program, unlike me, and so have a better take on this. I'm just giving my perceptions as an outsider, who thinks he has some insight into why college football programs run into so many moral issues that cloud the value of college football and tend to besmirch the reputation of a university.

What I'm saying and suspecting is, is that you people DO expect some return for your money, whether it's getting a field, arena, court, named after you, or providing for the best talent in coaches and players. Some schools have more money than others, so it's possible the talent goes where the money is. Oh, yes, you are providing an education for a deserving male or female student. So be it.

What I'm also saying is, is that I suspect donors are as much responsible for the sorry state so many college football programs are in, in terms of player/coach morality. You yourself have lauded your relationships with various individuals within the UM athletic program. Fine. IF college football is, indeed, a business, then you, a businessman, yourself, can understand that although most business deals are made out of simply liking the people you are dealing with, and trusting them, there are papers to sign with the hard facts of the deal clearly stated.

What I think you are doing is allowing your liking of individuals within UM's football/athletic programs to forget the hard facts of the "deal." It's unbecoming of you as a businessman. If someone violates a contract they made with you, you don't care how much you liked them, you go after your own interests. So, in this case of the firings. You've got to set aside your personal involvement; it's a "contract" gone bad.

So, why has the "contract" gone bad? All of that is in the press and on this board, which is as much as any of us can know. I liked how the UM football program was going. I liked what Pflugrad and O'Day were doing for the program. I liked how Pflugrad redeemed himself as a HC. It was a shock to me, as well. But, if I were a donor like you, I'd separate my esteem for Pflugrad and O'Day (and Hogan, who should be getting more credit for the success of UM football) from the need to continue the success of Griz football into the future. IOW, don't stop donating.

 

[tnt]

A wise post saying much better what its all about than my efforts. Aside from that, The move was all about protecting the University and the athletics programs. No doubt hogan did amazing things for the program. But seriously he forgot some basics along the line, $200.00 bottles of wine are NOT necessary.

 

[Grizbacker1]

Donors can piss and moan all they want but you are not buying your way into a university or college athletic program. It you donate money so that you can have a say in how a university is ran then you are heading down the wrong path. These BIG donors can easily pick up the phone to Engstrom and have his ear if they are truly that large and the school needs to coddle them to keep their support. You said it yourself, you can vote with your checkbook, however, donors are only hurting the existing kids who have brought nothing but effort and class to Montana athletics when they withhold a major donation that will make the U a better place.

Wonder how donations to Arkansas are going to go now that they got rid of their coach that just went 11-2, played in the Cotton bowl and were going to be in everyone's top 10 this year - all because he could not keep his zipper up.......

At least Arkansas donors, and fans, have been given a reason. Meanwhile, there is Montana, and still no reason(s) given. I think that makes it a lot easier for a donor to make a logical decision. It surely is better than, not knowing jack shit.

You whine more than Dolly Pardon PMS'ing. Engstrom doesn't owe you any explanation. If you had a brain, it would evident to you that there are already attorneys involved, and that anything he says in public may be used against him and UM. Figure it out already dude!

Hey Steve Dill you little cocksucker, why don't you tell us about your big donations again, but remember it has already been proven you haven't given shit to UM, unless you count $100 Alumni donation as big $$. you are the phoniest piece of shit on the planet, and everyone knows it. go shoot yourself, that would be a a contribution we would appreciate...problem is you would miss. fuckingloser

 

[Growler1]

Donors can piss and moan all they want but you are not buying your way into a university or college athletic program. It you donate money so that you can have a say in how a university is ran then you are heading down the wrong path. These BIG donors can easily pick up the phone to Engstrom and have his ear if they are truly that large and the school needs to coddle them to keep their support. You said it yourself, you can vote with your checkbook, however, donors are only hurting the existing kids who have brought nothing but effort and class to Montana athletics when they withhold a major donation that will make the U a better place.

Wonder how donations to Arkansas are going to go now that they got rid of their coach that just went 11-2, played in the Cotton bowl and were going to be in everyone's top 10 this year - all because he could not keep his zipper up.......

At least Arkansas donors, and fans, have been given a reason. Meanwhile, there is Montana, and still no reason(s) given. I think that makes it a lot easier for a donor to make a logical decision. It surely is better than, not knowing jack shit.

You whine more than Dolly Pardon PMS'ing. Engstrom doesn't owe you any explanation. If you had a brain, it would evident to you that there are already attorneys involved, and that anything he says in public may be used against him and UM. Figure it out already dude!

Hey Steve Dill you little cocksucker, why don't you tell us about your big donations again, but remember it has already been proven you haven't given shit to UM, unless you count $100 Alumni donation as big $$. you are the phoniest piece of shit on the planet, and everyone knows it. go shoot yourself, that would be a a contribution we would appreciate...problem is you would miss. f***[*]

Even though i'm an expert shot, even Stevie Wonder could hit your wide ass at 100 feet.

 

[hawaiiangriz]

Grizoola - if you can honestly say that college football, and in general college athletics, is NOT a business, than you are crazy :shock: . NCAA signs a BILLION dollar plus for the basketball tournament with ABC/ESPN, the SEC signs a 700 Million dollar plus deal with CBS for 15 plus years (i believe), what did Notre Dame do with CBS/NBC/ABC, I forget which one, for their football broadcasting rights, re-alignment of conferences is ENTIRELY based on dollars generated by TV revenues and NOTHING else, etc, the list goes on and on.....

LSU and Wisconsin's football budget, ALONE, for example, is north of 70 Million per year. Those are just two schools I picked, but imagine what the other schools are paying. UM's ENTIRE athletic budget is just north of 15 million. Please read the last three sentences again so you grasp it.

It is ABSOLUTELY a business and serious moneymaker for the big time schools, and also a serious money loser for the bottom 'half'....

 

[mcg]

Donors can piss and moan all they want but you are not buying your way into a university or college athletic program. It you donate money so that you can have a say in how a university is ran then you are heading down the wrong path. These BIG donors can easily pick up the phone to Engstrom and have his ear if they are truly that large and the school needs to coddle them to keep their support. You said it yourself, you can vote with your checkbook, however, donors are only hurting the existing kids who have brought nothing but effort and class to Montana athletics when they withhold a major donation that will make the U a better place.

Wonder how donations to Arkansas are going to go now that they got rid of their coach that just went 11-2, played in the Cotton bowl and were going to be in everyone's top 10 this year - all because he could not keep his zipper up.......

At least Arkansas donors, and fans, have been given a reason. Meanwhile, there is Montana, and still no reason(s) given. I think that makes it a lot easier for a donor to make a logical decision. It surely is better than, not knowing jack shit.

You whine more than Dolly Pardon PMS'ing. Engstrom doesn't owe you any explanation. If you had a brain, it would evident to you that there are already attorneys involved, and that anything he says in public may be used against him and UM. Figure it out already dude!

Just as Dr. Engstrom owes no one an explanation, no donor owes the University a donation.

 

[Growler1]

Donors can piss and moan all they want but you are not buying your way into a university or college athletic program. It you donate money so that you can have a say in how a university is ran then you are heading down the wrong path. These BIG donors can easily pick up the phone to Engstrom and have his ear if they are truly that large and the school needs to coddle them to keep their support. You said it yourself, you can vote with your checkbook, however, donors are only hurting the existing kids who have brought nothing but effort and class to Montana athletics when they withhold a major donation that will make the U a better place.

Wonder how donations to Arkansas are going to go now that they got rid of their coach that just went 11-2, played in the Cotton bowl and were going to be in everyone's top 10 this year - all because he could not keep his zipper up.......

At least Arkansas donors, and fans, have been given a reason. Meanwhile, there is Montana, and still no reason(s) given. I think that makes it a lot easier for a donor to make a logical decision. It surely is better than, not knowing jack shit.

You whine more than Dolly Pardon PMS'ing. Engstrom doesn't owe you any explanation. If you had a brain, it would evident to you that there are already attorneys involved, and that anything he says in public may be used against him and UM. Figure it out already dude!

Just as Dr. Engstrom owes no one an explanation, no donor owes the University a donation.

That's right. The whiny bitches are not really Griz fans, they are bandwagon fans who take their donations and go home crying when events don't suit them. They care more about bragging about how much they donate, and winning games at all costs than being true supporters of the program. I hope all of them disappear and become Cat fans.

 

[Growler1]

mtgrizrule, you amaze me. Are you really that ignorant that you can't figure out why these two were fired? Do you need to be spoon fed to understand it? The program was out of control with frequent criminal acts committed, and O'Day anf Pflu doing nothing but apologizing and covering up facts. Hell Petrino got fired for much less than these two did! Figure it out and stop whining about it!

 

[GrizDDS]

Petrino's contract has a "morals clause" giving the university the option to fire him with cause for behavior that reflects poorly on the university. Case closed. Has anyone that is demanding answers from Engstrom read Pflugrad's contract? I doubt it's as cut and dry of a case and for Engstrom to publically discuss Pflugrad or O'Day could cost UM hundreds of thousands of dollars in the courtroom.

 

[Grizzoola]

Grizoola - if you can honestly say that college football, and in general college athletics, is NOT a business, than you are crazy :shock: . NCAA signs a BILLION dollar plus for the basketball tournament with ABC/ESPN, the SEC signs a 700 Million dollar plus deal with CBS for 15 plus years (i believe), what did Notre Dame do with CBS/NBC/ABC, I forget which one, for their football broadcasting rights, re-alignment of conferences is ENTIRELY based on dollars generated by TV revenues and NOTHING else, etc, the list goes on and on.....

LSU and Wisconsin's football budget, ALONE, for example, is north of 70 Million per year. Those are just two schools I picked, but imagine what the other schools are paying. UM's ENTIRE athletic budget is just north of 15 million. Please read the last three sentences again so you grasp it.

It is ABSOLUTELY a business and serious moneymaker for the big time schools, and also a serious money loser for the bottom 'half'....

Hawaiian, thanks for bringing out the prevailing attitude of donors/fans. This is really the crux of the problem with college football. Big money talks, well,......BIG. BUT, you forget who REALLY runs college football programs, and who REALLY takes the bullet when things go south, morality wise, on the part of coaches and players. Just ask the former Penn State pres.

You cite big money as to what's driving college football, and sadly, that's A reality. The other, bigger reality is that it's the universities, not the big money, that control their football programs. It's only a question of how permissive or cowardly college presidents have been willing to abide morality issues within their football programs. It's clear to me that ADs and coaches are governed more by the donor/fan side than by the university side. YOU are a donor/fan; it's understandable you say what you do.

It's really time for college/university presidents to stand up and lay down their positions on misconduct by football players and coaches. They should do this soon as they come into office; none of this blind-siding that Engstrom did with his coaches. Like many eGrizzers, I don't like what he did, but unlike many eGrizzers, he had to do it. I suppose the controversy is in the WAY he did it, and I will not be surprised if we will not ever know precisely why he did what he did.

I would appreciate, at some point, however, even a general statement from Engstrom as to his thinking re: past morality issues of Griz football and how he intends to run Griz football, here on out. He needs to be public with not only we the fans, but in terms of his vision of Griz football player and coach conduct, and how that vision is different from the past, w/o accusing anyone in particular.

But, I will make this major point: Big money ($10M or $100M) cannot and should not allow college presidents to employ/recruit/retain players and coaches who somehow cannot understand that their moral misconduct affects more people than just themselves and their victims.

All I'm saying, Hawaiian, is that you state A reality. I'm stating a bigger reality, howsomever it's lost in the big pile of cash.

 

[ranco]

mtgrizrule, you amaze me. Are you really that ignorant that you can't figure out why these two were fired? Do you need to be spoon fed to understand it? The program was out of control with frequent criminal acts committed, and O'Day anf Pflu doing nothing but apologizing and covering up facts. Hell Petrino got fired for much less than these two did! Figure it out and stop whining about it!

You get dumber by the day.

If there was a stitch of truth to what you said, then Engstrom would have fired them both for cause. Plus, all of your bs about fair-weather fans/donors is enough to make me vomit. You actually think people should just turn a blind eye when the U f’s someone over. That shows absolutely no character.

Funny, you still cry about the “the out of control” program and the “frequent criminal acts,” which, if it were actually true, would be the fault of the players. If that were the case (which, fortunately, it is not) then what does it say about you in your undying support for this alleged gang of criminals? I guess you have no morals.

The fact is, the Players are stand up people and because of them Griz football will remain solid. Yeah, loosing funds will hurt the kids, but the blame for that rests squarely on Engstrom’s shoulders. If Engstrom was actually concerned about the kids, he would step down. I’m sure many donors would reconsider any decision to withhold funds.

 

[Grizbacker1]

mtgrizrule, you amaze me. Are you really that ignorant that you can't figure out why these two were fired? Do you need to be spoon fed to understand it? The program was out of control with frequent criminal acts committed, and O'Day anf Pflu doing nothing but apologizing and covering up facts. Hell Petrino got fired for much less than these two did! Figure it out and stop whining about it!

Once again, ole Shorty aka Steve Dill proves he is a moron. Hey Dill, we you born stupid, or have you worked on your game, you may be the dumbest little pfuck on the planet....stand up when I am talking to you Dill...oh....you are... :lol: