Fullerton Article on Big Sky

[EverettGriz]

Ummm..wtf are you saying, gg?

My mind IS made up. The bottom of the FBS is better than the top of the FCS. They also have better facilities. Better conferences. Better attendance. Better revenue. And I want to play with the best. This could only be unclear to you.

 

[kemajic]

Like a couple in a troubled marriage going to counseling, Foolerton should be commended for saving the BSC from collapse.

But like a bad marriage, it's still an unhappy and unhealthy place to be.

I'm not sure Fullerton saved the BSC from collapse. Where else would these institutions go? DII?

 

[BWahlberg]

Yeah how dare he talk about facts and promote the conference he's in charge of.

As long as you like him slamming other conferences/classifications with non-facts to try to make his look better, while patting himself on the back with both hands.... The top of the FCS overtaking the bottom of FBS? What a joke. This just in: The top of the FCS has been joining the bottom of the FBS. But of course Fullerton knows more about what is better for those programs than their own decision-makers, who are not proceeding blindly.

You are slamming FCS in assuming that when he compared the bottom of FBS to the top of FCS, that it was an insult to FBS. Shows what you really think of FCS I guess. That there is no way a lowly FCS team could be better than a bottom dwelling FBS team.

The league is very strong right now, and I agree with him it's stronger than it has been since the Boise/Nevada/Idaho days.

Some major beef with Fullerton here. He has positioned the Big Sky to stay afloat in a time of turmoil and change in the NCAA football landscape.

All Fullerton actually said in this article, is:

There is risk in moving up. - Is anyone going to argue with that?
The major players (top 5 conferences) in NCAA are separating themselves even further from the have-nots. - Again, going to disagree?
He then says this widening gap will making chasing FBS dreams even harder.
Then he says the top of FCS has overtaken the bottom of FBS. - I guess that's personal opinion - would you rather be a top 5 FCS school or a doormat in the FBS in a doormat conference?

I'm not sure why you guys are so up in arms about this short article which really only has about 4-5 quotes from Fullerton himself, the rest is from the author.

Bingo :clap:

 

[getgrizzy]

Ummm..wtf are you saying, gg?

My mind IS made up. The bottom of the FBS is better than the top of the FCS. They also have better facilities. Better conferences. Better attendance. Better revenue. And I want to play with the best. This could only be unclear to you.

sorry. thought you were the one saying we're just as good or better than the bottom of the f.b.s. and therefore we should move up with our peers. are you sure you didn't say that?

 

[BWahlberg]

The top of the FCS has overtaken the bottom of the FBS,” Fullerton said.

WTF? By what measure? Head to head wins? Hardly. Revenue? HA! That'd be a laugh. Attendance? Please. Facilities? :lol: I mean seriously. If that ain't the dumbest thing ever said.

Montana / Montana State / NDSU / Sam Houston / JMU / Youngstown

over the likes of

Idaho / NMSU / UNM / Akron / FAU / FIU / UTEP / MTSU

uh.. yeah. Maybe the bottom FBS has more revenue in some cases from conference bowl revenue but attendance, facilities, national recognition, TV ratings... yeah.

 

[Raider]

The top of the FCS has overtaken the bottom of the FBS,” Fullerton said.

WTF? By what measure? Head to head wins? Hardly. Revenue? HA! That'd be a laugh. Attendance? Please. Facilities? :lol: I mean seriously. If that ain't the dumbest thing ever said.

So you don't think that the top 5 FCS can win head to head with the bottom 5 of FBS?

I think the games would be a toss up. But I seriously doubt Foolerton was only talking about the best 5 va the worst 5.


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Those games would not be a "toss up". You are exaggerating for argument sake. There is much more overlap between the bottom tier of FBS and the top tier of FCS than you think.

Do you know what NDSU would do to Idaho right now? That's just one of many examples.

Fullerton was embellishing a bit however.

 

[PlayerRep]

Some of these mover-upper posters just can't stand the truth. Since they don't want to hear that the Big Sky is healthy and other things are saying, and can't dispute most of it, they attack Fullerton. In reality, Fullerton has done a very good job helping guide the conference. These posters allow their views and agendas to override a realistic assessment of the conference and what the conference has done.

 

[GlacierGrizX]

How about we round out the Big Sky to 14 teams, and then lets pat yourself on the back Fullerton! Teams like Northern Colorado , and Southern Utah don't count. We need teams like Idaho, New Mexico St, North Dakota State. Actually lets add these, and make it a true 16 team power conference.

 

[EverettGriz]

WTF? By what measure? Head to head wins? Hardly. Revenue? HA! That'd be a laugh. Attendance? Please. Facilities? :lol: I mean seriously. If that ain't the dumbest thing ever said.

So you don't think that the top 5 FCS can win head to head with the bottom 5 of FBS?

I think the games would be a toss up. But I seriously doubt Foolerton was only talking about the best 5 va the worst 5.


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Those games would not be a "toss up". You are exaggerating for argument sake. There is much more overlap between the bottom tier of FBS and the top tier of FCS than you think.

Do you know what NDSU would do to Idaho right now? That's just one of many examples.

Fullerton was embellishing a bit however.

Yes, you could make the argument that the best 5 or 10 FCS teams would perhaps beat the lowest FBS teams approximately 50% of the time. In other words, a toss up.

But let's be frank. Since 2007, the FBS has a winning percentage of 93% over FCS teams. There hasn't been a year since 2007 that the FBS was below 90%. I think calling it a "toss-up" is being extremely generous to the FCS.

 

[mcg]

So you don't think that the top 5 FCS can win head to head with the bottom 5 of FBS?

I think the games would be a toss up. But I seriously doubt Foolerton was only talking about the best 5 va the worst 5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those games would not be a "toss up". You are exaggerating for argument sake. There is much more overlap between the bottom tier of FBS and the top tier of FCS than you think.

Do you know what NDSU would do to Idaho right now? That's just one of many examples.

Fullerton was embellishing a bit however.

Yes, you could make the argument that the best 5 or 10 FCS teams would perhaps beat the lowest FBS teams approximately 50% of the time. In other words, a toss up.

But let's be frank. Since 2007, the FBS has a winning percentage of 93% over FCS teams. There hasn't been a year since 2007 that the FBS was below 90%. I think calling it a "toss-up" is being extremely generous to the FCS.

How many of the games since 2007 have been between the bottom 5 of FBS and the top 5 of FCS?

 

[EverettGriz]

Lets expand that to a more reasonable number and consider the top 25% of the FCS vs the lowest 25% of the FBS, since 5 teams is meaningless, especially since a number of those teams are going FBS themselves. I don't have time to do the research, but if that number is anywhere close to 50%, I'll send Foolerton a nice gift basket.


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[AZGrizFan]

Lets expand that to a more reasonable number and consider the top 25% of the FCS vs the lowest 25% of the FBS, since 5 teams is meaningless, especially since a number of those teams are going FBS themselves. I don't have time to do the research, but if that number is anywhere close to 50%, I'll send Foolerton a nice gift basket.


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Very few of the top 25% of FCS actually play an FBS team. The FBS teams prefer to go out and pick on the Savannah States of the world, or the geographically isolated schools where scheduling is a challenge and $$ is hard to come by (does EWU and/or Weber ring a bell)

 

[CatzWillRise]

One thing you conveniently leave out is every single FBS vs FCS game is a home game for the FBS team. You alternate the top 25 FCS teams with the bottom 25 FBS teams in a couple conferences, and I bet the results are pretty even.

 

[EverettGriz]

One thing you conveniently leave out is every single FBS vs FCS game is a home game for the FBS team. You alternate the top 25 FCS teams with the bottom 25 FBS teams in a couple conferences, and I bet the results are pretty even.

I would agree with that for maybe the top 10 or 15 FCS schools. But when you get down to the 20th best FCS team (think Harvard, Bethune-Cookman, SC State, etc), they're not going to beat a New Mexico State or a Wyoming 50% of the time, even with home games. Those teams regularly get pasted by top FCS teams.

 

[CatzWillRise]

I had a few minutes at work so I came up with 5 divisions, 5 teams from FBS and FCS, top 5 each and so on down. These are based on the overrated Sagarin rating system but what the heck.

Conf 1.
FCS                        FBS
North Dakota State			Wyoming  
Sam Houston State			Memphis  
Georgia Southern			Texas State          
South Dakota State			Miami-Ohio           
Eastern Washington			Illinois 

Conf 2.
FCS                        FBS
Montana State 			Fla. International   
Northern Iowa 			Air Force            
Central Arkansas			Buffalo 
Indiana State 			Colorado State       
Wofford  			     Florida Atlantic     

Conf 3.
FCS                        FBS
Youngstown State			UTEP  
Cal Poly-SLO			       UAB  
Southern Illinois			New Mexico           
Illinois State  			  Eastern Michigan     
Eastern Kentucky 			Army  

Conf 4.
FCS                        FBS
Tennessee-Martin   			Tulane  
McNeese State  			        Colorado  
Appalachian State    			UNLV  
Eastern Illinois     			Hawai'i 
Northern Arizona     			South Alabama        

Conf 5.
FCS                        FBS
Chattanooga		           Idaho   
Towson		            Southern Miss        
Stony Brook          		Akron  
Samford 		              New Mexico State     
Jacksonville State   		Umass

There, more research that should've been done on the subject, and no clear answer provided. That's how I roll.

 

[EverettGriz]

more research that should've been done on the subject, and no clear answer provided. That's how I roll.

:lol:

And man, that would make for some sweeeeeet football!


(psst, where's Montana?)

 

[CatzWillRise]

more research that should've been done on the subject, and no clear answer provided. That's how I roll.

:lol:

And man, that would make for some sweeeeeet football!


(psst, where's Montana?)

They weren't in the top 25 Sagarin ratings last year. I just figured that would be the easiest way to get the top 25 for and bottom 25. Not the most accurate though.

 

[EverettGriz]

more research that should've been done on the subject, and no clear answer provided. That's how I roll.

:lol:

And man, that would make for some sweeeeeet football!


(psst, where's Montana?)

They weren't in the top 25 Sagarin ratings last year. I just figured that would be the easiest way to get the top 25 for and bottom 25. Not the most accurate though.

Ahh! Makes sense. I guess I oughta read, then post.

 

[Raider]

So you don't think that the top 5 FCS can win head to head with the bottom 5 of FBS?

I think the games would be a toss up. But I seriously doubt Foolerton was only talking about the best 5 va the worst 5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those games would not be a "toss up". You are exaggerating for argument sake. There is much more overlap between the bottom tier of FBS and the top tier of FCS than you think.

Do you know what NDSU would do to Idaho right now? That's just one of many examples.

Fullerton was embellishing a bit however.

Yes, you could make the argument that the best 5 or 10 FCS teams would perhaps beat the lowest FBS teams approximately 50% of the time. In other words, a toss up.

But let's be frank. Since 2007, the FBS has a winning percentage of 93% over FCS teams. There hasn't been a year since 2007 that the FBS was below 90%. I think calling it a "toss-up" is being extremely generous to the FCS.

This winning % argument does not hold water in our discussion because you have UM playing Tennessee, instead of UM playing a Colorado State, Washington State, etc.

Why, because those games rarely happen.

For years O’Day got ragged on for scheduling an Oregon instead of a Wazzu (for example), but what people never realized is that those games were not going to happen. Trust me, he tried. A Wazzu had absolutely nothing to gain, and allot to lose, by playing UM. Plus, they don’t have the money to offer. Ask Colorado how that worked out for them against Sac State, and let’s face it, Sac St. is not what you would call a top tier FCS school.

In general, your point is well taken. However, I think you are exaggerating a bit to fit your argument.

 

[OrgonGriz]

Foolerton said there are some unsettling issues on the horizon with College football. The Big 10 is not allowing members to schedule FCS teams. The honest reason is money. The TV networks age going to be willing to pay these BCS conferences more money by scheduling top level games or at least games with "FBS" teams. I think we will see the other BCS schools go the Sam way as the Big10. Should that happen what happens to those FCS teams that basically survive. The Wyoming's and Bowling Greens are not going to pay the same type of $ to FCS schools. I am sure UM is not getting a 650k payout from Wyoming. So what happens to these FCS teams that loose these games that pay 300k to 650k? Will they make it without that money? I look at App State and GSU deciding to make a more. Why, because they are certain of what's ahead for FCS. At this point UM looks to be stuck, especially with Engstrong at the helm. Many say they are glad we did not join the WAC. However had we joined what's to say we would not have gotten an invite from the MW? Maybe the MW does not want the Vandals but UM is not UI. Sadly it looks like we will never know what might have been. Mark my words if the FCS as a whole gets a kick in the nuts it will have big effects on UM. Just my two cents!