Frank Gogola Article

[HookedonGriz]

Well, at least now you are talking about the topic at hand.

I’m just a fan, but I think it’s ok, on a fan forum, to ask questions about the team and where it is, and where it’s going.

I don’t have to justify my Griz fandom to you or anyone else. The only drum I’ve been beating is that the Griz need to improve as a program, and how I think they can do that. I don’t have any influence over the team either, but that doesn’t mean I can’t discuss it.

If what you’ve got from my posts is that I’m a Cat fan, that’s on you. You apparently weren’t reading very closely.

If you think everything’s great with the Griz because of the ‘23 Natty run, great. There are those of us that think ‘23 was an outlier for both teams, and there are facts to back that up. This seems like an appropriate topic for a Griz football forum.

I think it’s awesome you support NIL and the team. That definitely helps, and retaining Gillman was a huge victory! Go Griz!

If you think I’m super duper happy with how things have been going with the football team, then you haven’t read my posts or paying attention either. I just know there isn’t a hell of a lot I can personally about it.

 

[mthoopsfan]

Whoa the Hoops Troops are out in force now.

They get to decide who is a fan, who knows what, and who gets to post.

Challenge Hoops and you’re a Cat fan for life!

lol

I’m not aware that anyone has said the Cats had a better season than the Griz in 2023. The topic of this article is the disparity of the programs over the Hauck 2.0 years, and the facts are in the article. Bobby defenders scream about ‘23, but that year is clearly the outlier.

If you guys are happy about the state of the program, I guess that’s your opinion.

Real Griz fans see the disparity between the programs and are hoping for a change in direction, whatever it takes.

BTW, the OL HS commits and recent transfers are a good step in the right direction! I hope it continues!

Unknowledgeable people like you can't evaluate the program. And many of you are just biased and go with your biases or your narratives. The program is very strong now, and in good hands. More work to be done, of course.

 

[HookedonGriz]

It's really a strange phenomenon. There are so many troll accounts now. It's like they all have been in a coma for the last 15+years and think it's still a worthy endeavor. "Hey fellers, check out what I posted on that there Griz board. They ain't got no clue I ain't even no Griz fan! I'm gonna post the same thing over and over and over! I'll spray fart in a few pro-Griz posts here an'er so they'll never know! Weeeeee!"

Ding ding ding

 

[mthoopsfan]

Stitt was a much better coach than what we have now. He was placed in a much worse scenario than when he turned over the program to Big Game Bob.

Hauck always gets good teams handed to him when he coaches at UM.

The problem is he doesn't make them better he maintains. Good coaches don't do that

Stitt was a weak coach, and didn't fit with Montana supporters and alumni. That's why he only lasted a couple years in coaching. Your statement on Stitt shows how little you know about football. Stitt was taking UM down every year. Hauck didn't have good teams handed to him by Stitt. UM was ranked no. 33 in the nation in Stitt's last year. That's was of the lowest rankings in over 3 decades.

 

[HookedonGriz]

Listen, I don't know you and have no idea who you root for, so I take you at face value that you're not a cat fan that is trolling, that is fine. But you continue to ignore a few salient points that others make, just like Gogola did in his cherry picking article. I'm not saying you are a bad fan, I just disagree with the cherry picking. People can cherry pick in the other direction, too, to paint a picture.

1) The truth is that since 2020, the teams are relatively equal in wins. They have both made one national championship. That article manipulates a good bit. If the fortunes reverse next year, then all the same statements about "the Griz are where the Cats want to be" would apply. Just like they did last year in favor of the Griz. This is the fallacy of recency.

2) People want to point to "where the team finished in the Big Sky," but that is senseless when all the teams don't play each other. It has been discussed ad nauseum, but there have been years where all reasonable people agree that teams finish higher or lower than they should based largely on their schedule.

3) Hauck 2.0 started out WAY behind where the Cats were. It has been an undertaking to bring it back. Look at the Griz seasons and the trend from where it started. In the grid below, the last two columns are end of season poll rankings, and the 2024 isn't added in yet. 2023 wasn't an aberration, it was a continuation of a trend. Yes, this year was down year where the team (both players and coaches) underperformed vs. preseason expectations, and if next seasons is further underperforming expectations then maybe we reassess where Hauck's tenure is at, but you don't fire a great coach when the trend line is like this overall. (edit -- Can't get the formatting right to show the final two grids with poll rankings at the end)

2015	Bob Stitt	8–5	6–2	T–2nd	L NCAA Division I Second Round
2016	Bob Stitt	6–5	3–5	8th
2017	Bob Stitt	7–4	5–3	T–6th
2018	Bobby Hauck	6–5	4–4	T–6th
2019	Bobby Hauck	10–4	6–2	T–3rd	L NCAA Division I Quarterfinal
2020	Bobby Hauck	2–0	0–0[n 2]	[n 2]
2021	Bobby Hauck	10–3	6–2	T–3rd	L NCAA Division I Quarterfinal
2022	Bobby Hauck	8–5	4–4	6th	L NCAA Division I Second Round
2023	Bobby Hauck	13-2	7-1	1st	L NCAA Division I Championship
2024	Bobby Hauck	9-5	5-3	5th	L NCAA Division I Second Round

​

We weren't even fielding teams ranked in the top-25 by the end of the Stitt tenure. Winning a national title is not the ONLY measure of a coach. Yes, of course I want things to continue to improve, but I don't know how you (or Frank Gogola) could claim this is a failed turnaround from what Hauck took over.

A great post from someone who “gets it”

 

[Skookum-Jim]

Look, I just don't care. Maybe he'll get a dynamite QB that can make it work just as well next year, but there's a big chance not having a generational running talent at QB that is the engine to your offense is tough to replace.

If Brent leaves, this whole conversation is moot, anyways.

I love how everyone has changed their tune over here. Tommy use to just be another RB playing QB, now the cats won't win without him. Also Vigan was always refered to as six, as if the cats had to settle for him and couldn't get someone better. Now they won't win without him either. This place is hilarious.

 

[uofmman1122]

I love how everyone has changed their tune over here. Tommy use to just be another RB playing QB, now the cats won't win without him. Also Vigan was always refered to as six, as if the cats had to settle for him and couldn't get someone better. Now they won't win without him either. This place is hilarious.

Again, none of those things are mutually exclusive.

Tommy is a great QB for the cats, but he is not a passing QB, and they do not win because of him passing the ball.
Vigen wasn't their first choice, but he has proven that he's probably the best coach they've had in the modern era, and replacing him could prove to be very tough.

You're so obsessed with being a troll over here that you miss obvious shit lol

 

[garizzalies]

I love how everyone has changed their tune over here. Tommy use to just be another RB playing QB, now the cats won't win without him. Also Vigan was always refered to as six, as if the cats had to settle for him and couldn't get someone better. Now they won't win without him either. This place is hilarious.

What’s really funny is that you’ve spent twenty (20) years here pretending to be a Griz fan and did not come out of the closet until the bubz had their best season in history.
Do you even realize how pathetically sad that is?

 

[Skookum-Jim]

What’s really funny is that you’ve spent twenty (20) years here pretending to be a Griz fan and did not come out of the closet until the bubz had their best season in history.
Do you even realize how pathetically sad that is?

I've been a griz fan my whole life been to way more games for more years than most here. I just point out the hyperbole and hypocrisy. I haven't pretended anything.

 

[Skookum-Jim]

Again, none of those things are mutually exclusive.

Tommy is a great QB for the cats, but he is not a passing QB, and they do not win because of him passing the ball.
Vigen wasn't their first choice, but he has proven that he's probably the best coach they've had in the modern era, and replacing him could prove to be very tough.

You're so obsessed with being a troll over here that you miss obvious shit lol

I suppose I should just be cool with you guys just admitting that Tommy is a great QB and that Vigan is the best coach in the conference. Just had to point out the complete change in narrative over here.

 

[garizzalies]

Sure, bub. Whatever you say

 

[HikeGlacier]

That he couldn't win with. Not sure how that rates on the success scale.

Stitt was a weak coach, and didn't fit with Montana supporters and alumni. That's why he only lasted a couple years in coaching. Your statement on Stitt shows how little you know about football. Stitt was taking UM down every year. Hauck didn't have good teams handed to him by Stitt. UM was ranked no. 33 in the nation in Stitt's last year. That's was of the lowest rankings in over 3 decades.

BH just led the team to a 5th place finish in year seven. Stitt has nearly the same winning percentage against the cats and the rest of the Big Sky as BH. So if Stitt was horrible, what does that make BH in year seven?

 

[uofmman1122]

I suppose I should just be cool with you guys just admitting that Tommy is a great QB and that Vigan is the best coach in the conference. Just had to point out the complete change in narrative over here.

Again, there's that validation you all desperately need from Griz fans lol

 

[mthoopsfan]

I've been a griz fan my whole life been to way more games for more years than most here. I just point out the hyperbole and hypocrisy. I haven't pretended anything.

You just post your biases and your narrative. You don't point out those other things. You are those other things.

 

[mthoopsfan]

BH just led the team to a 5th place finish in year seven. Stitt has nearly the same winning percentage against the cats and the rest of the Big Sky as BH. So if Stitt was horrible, what does that make BH in year seven?

And the team this year was seeded in the playoffs. No one cares about conference rank, certainly not the playoff selection committee.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I suppose I should just be cool with you guys just admitting that Tommy is a great QB and that Vigan is the best coach in the conference. Just had to point out the complete change in narrative over here.

Vigen isn't the best coach in the conference. Had a good year, tho.

 

[HikeGlacier]

And the team this year was seeded in the playoffs. No one cares about conference rank, certainly not the playoff selection committee.

No one cares about playing in a play-in game and then losing in the first round of the playoffs.

 

[Money!]

Again, none of those things are mutually exclusive.

Tommy is a great QB for the cats, but he is not a passing QB, and they do not win because of him passing the ball.
Vigen wasn't their first choice, but he has proven that he's probably the best coach they've had in the modern era, and replacing him could prove to be very tough.

You're so obsessed with being a troll over here that you miss obvious shit lol

We won in Davis thanks to his arm and 300 against Martin definitely helped

 

[Money!]

And the team this year was seeded in the playoffs. No one cares about conference rank, certainly not the playoff selection committee.

They were a top 16 team in the country. I could be HC and get that team a top 16 seed with the massive attraction that UM has. BH hasn’t done anything impressive and he got carried to a championship thanks to Junior.

 

[mthoopsfan]

They were a top 16 team in the country. I could be HC and get that team a top 16 seed with the massive attraction that UM has. BH hasn’t done anything impressive and he got carried to a championship thanks to Junior.

Junior was on the team this year too. We didn't get to Frisco. You couldn't coach a first year little's kids football team to a win. At least the Griz weren't a seeded team who lost a home playoff game to an unseeded team, like the Cats did.