Former AD O'Day: "We probably should have moved up"

[alabamagrizzly]

I will see if I can find it. It has been a month or so.

If you come across stuff like that, you should absolutely post it, it's informational. The posts that I don't like seeing are the ones that say "The Griz should move because I want them to", that's just annoying, but when you come across stuff like this you should absolutely post it.

Ya Navy, no worries about having to start a move up thread. There’s usually one or two to choose from. The one issue with posting good info in them though is it’ll get lost in the BS sometimes.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I agree UM and MSU could compete very well in the MWC. Further, I think if UM had joined the WAC years ago they would be in the MWC. I think UM would have gotten in over San Jose State. UM would probably be in the Mountain division with Utah State, Wyoming, Colorado State, Air Force and New Mexico.

Boise would have always preferred to be in the West Division.

I saw an article about a month ago saying that UM and MSU have both "softned" on moving and have talked to the MWC recently. I almost posted it on here, but didn't want to be accused of starting another "move up" thread.

The MWC could be losing some teams in the next few years. Boise is trying to position themselves for the Big 12. And they have an ally in BYU, no doubt. Plus San Diego State and possibly AF and Colorado State could be interested in moving if they had the right opportunity.

I think there is a chance (probably a small chance) that UM and MSU could be invited to the MWC in the next 5-10 years.

I think this is (1) overlooked and (2) correct.

Why would joining the WAC have gotten UM in the MW? My impression is that UM joining the WAC would have been a huge disaster. See below. UM was talking to the WAC right before the WAC fell apart. Sorry, but that wouldn't have gotten UM into the MW. Perhaps int D-II, but not into the MW.

"How conference realignment wiped WAC football off the map"

"After more than a decade of membership changes, the Western Athletic Conference will not play football in 2013,"

"Currently, only four non-household names are set to remain in the conference: Seattle, Denver, New Mexico State and Idaho, with the Vandals exploring independence in football and Big Sky membership for their other sports. In 2012, the WAC will be a diseased seven-team football league limping through its 50th year. And come July 1, 2013, the once-respectable conference will be a carcass."

"The revolving door has spun even faster in recent years, as 14 teams have left or will leave the conference between 2005 and the end of the 2012 season."

"The WAC was earning around $4 million per year from ESPN, but following Boise State's exit in 2011, ESPN dramatically cut that figure. In 2011-12, each of the eight WAC schools received $104,873 in television revenue."

"The last reservoir the WAC could have tapped for membership was the Big Sky Conference, a league that has weathered the realignment storm and held strong in small Western media markets. The two conferences discussed a partnership in recent weeks, but those talks have largely fallen apart."

https://www.si.com/college/2012/08/21/wac-football-demise

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I think this is (1) overlooked and (2) correct.

Why would joining the WAC have gotten UM in the MW? My impression is that UM joining the WAC would have been a huge disaster. See below. UM was talking to the WAC right before the WAC fell apart. Sorry, but that wouldn't have gotten UM into the MW. Perhaps int D-II, but not into the MW.

"How conference realignment wiped WAC football off the map"

"After more than a decade of membership changes, the Western Athletic Conference will not play football in 2013,"

"Currently, only four non-household names are set to remain in the conference: Seattle, Denver, New Mexico State and Idaho, with the Vandals exploring independence in football and Big Sky membership for their other sports. In 2012, the WAC will be a diseased seven-team football league limping through its 50th year. And come July 1, 2013, the once-respectable conference will be a carcass."

"The revolving door has spun even faster in recent years, as 14 teams have left or will leave the conference between 2005 and the end of the 2012 season."

"The WAC was earning around $4 million per year from ESPN, but following Boise State's exit in 2011, ESPN dramatically cut that figure. In 2011-12, each of the eight WAC schools received $104,873 in television revenue."

"The last reservoir the WAC could have tapped for membership was the Big Sky Conference, a league that has weathered the realignment storm and held strong in small Western media markets. The two conferences discussed a partnership in recent weeks, but those talks have largely fallen apart."

https://www.si.com/college/2012/08/21/wac-football-demise

I guess I just feel like if UM would’ve already made the jump, any opening MWC out of the WAC might’ve been a bit more of a reality than it has been. I can see your point, though.

 

[Spanky2]

As many of you are aware, Montana was a member of the Pacific Coast Conference and Skyline Conference for many years prior to joining the Big Sky Conference. Should UM become a member of the Mountain West, we wouldn’t be strangers to some of the current members as we were competitors for years in the Skyline Conference.
A meeting between an authorized UM representative and the Mountain West representative to discuss possible mutual interest may have merit.

 

[NavyBlue]

I think this is (1) overlooked and (2) correct.

Why would joining the WAC have gotten UM in the MW? My impression is that UM joining the WAC would have been a huge disaster. See below. UM was talking to the WAC right before the WAC fell apart. Sorry, but that wouldn't have gotten UM into the MW. Perhaps int D-II, but not into the MW.

"How conference realignment wiped WAC football off the map"

"After more than a decade of membership changes, the Western Athletic Conference will not play football in 2013,"

"Currently, only four non-household names are set to remain in the conference: Seattle, Denver, New Mexico State and Idaho, with the Vandals exploring independence in football and Big Sky membership for their other sports. In 2012, the WAC will be a diseased seven-team football league limping through its 50th year. And come July 1, 2013, the once-respectable conference will be a carcass."

"The revolving door has spun even faster in recent years, as 14 teams have left or will leave the conference between 2005 and the end of the 2012 season."

"The WAC was earning around $4 million per year from ESPN, but following Boise State's exit in 2011, ESPN dramatically cut that figure. In 2011-12, each of the eight WAC schools received $104,873 in television revenue."

"The last reservoir the WAC could have tapped for membership was the Big Sky Conference, a league that has weathered the realignment storm and held strong in small Western media markets. The two conferences discussed a partnership in recent weeks, but those talks have largely fallen apart."

https://www.si.com/college/2012/08/21/wac-football-demise

The reason why UM would have gotten in the MWC...

After Utah, TCU and BYU withdrew from the MWC then Boise State and San Diego announced they were also leaving the MWC to join the Big East. Then the Big East lost teams and decided to be the non-football conference they are today. While it looked like Boise and San Diego State were gone, the MWC added Utah State and San Jose State. Then the football schools separated from the Big East, Boise and San Diego came back to the MWC. (Without every playing a game in the Big East). It is widely believed, that UM was seen as more attractive than San Jose State and would have gotten in over San Jose State.

The MWC had already added Fresno State, Hawaii (football only), Nevada Reno, along with Boise earlier. The MWC was killing off the WAC. UM would have gotten in over San Jose, I am pretty sure of it. No one has ever been thrilled about San Jose State in the MWC, especially San Diego State and Fresno State.

 

[Spanky2]

Why would joining the WAC have gotten UM in the MW? My impression is that UM joining the WAC would have been a huge disaster. See below. UM was talking to the WAC right before the WAC fell apart. Sorry, but that wouldn't have gotten UM into the MW. Perhaps int D-II, but not into the MW.

"How conference realignment wiped WAC football off the map"

"After more than a decade of membership changes, the Western Athletic Conference will not play football in 2013,"

"Currently, only four non-household names are set to remain in the conference: Seattle, Denver, New Mexico State and Idaho, with the Vandals exploring independence in football and Big Sky membership for their other sports. In 2012, the WAC will be a diseased seven-team football league limping through its 50th year. And come July 1, 2013, the once-respectable conference will be a carcass."

"The revolving door has spun even faster in recent years, as 14 teams have left or will leave the conference between 2005 and the end of the 2012 season."

"The WAC was earning around $4 million per year from ESPN, but following Boise State's exit in 2011, ESPN dramatically cut that figure. In 2011-12, each of the eight WAC schools received $104,873 in television revenue."

"The last reservoir the WAC could have tapped for membership was the Big Sky Conference, a league that has weathered the realignment storm and held strong in small Western media markets. The two conferences discussed a partnership in recent weeks, but those talks have largely fallen apart."

https://www.si.com/college/2012/08/21/wac-football-demise

The reason why UM would have gotten in the MWC...

After Utah, TCU and BYU withdrew from the MWC then Boise State and San Diego announced they were also leaving the MWC to join the Big East. Then the Big East lost teams and decided to be the non-football conference they are today. While it looked like Boise and San Diego State were gone, the MWC added Utah State and San Jose State. Then the football schools separated from the Big East, Boise and San Diego came back to the MWC. (Without every playing a game in the Big East). It is widely believed, that UM was seen as more attractive than San Jose State and would have gotten in over San Jose State.

The MWC had already added Fresno State, Hawaii (football only), Nevada Reno, along with Boise earlier. The MWC was killing off the WAC. UM would have gotten in over San Jose, I am pretty sure of it. No one has ever been thrilled about San Jose State in the MWC, especially San Diego State and Fresno State.

Good information Navy. Certainly if UM doesn’t express interest, we will never be invited. Dennison and Engstrom had no desire to leave the Big Sky Conference. Hopefully, Bogner will request a meeting with the Mountain West to determine our options.

 

[AZGrizFan]

The reason why UM would have gotten in the MWC...

After Utah, TCU and BYU withdrew from the MWC then Boise State and San Diego announced they were also leaving the MWC to join the Big East. Then the Big East lost teams and decided to be the non-football conference they are today. While it looked like Boise and San Diego State were gone, the MWC added Utah State and San Jose State. Then the football schools separated from the Big East, Boise and San Diego came back to the MWC. (Without every playing a game in the Big East). It is widely believed, that UM was seen as more attractive than San Jose State and would have gotten in over San Jose State.

The MWC had already added Fresno State, Hawaii (football only), Nevada Reno, along with Boise earlier. The MWC was killing off the WAC. UM would have gotten in over San Jose, I am pretty sure of it. No one has ever been thrilled about San Jose State in the MWC, especially San Diego State and Fresno State.

Good information Navy. Certainly if UM doesn’t express interest, we will never be invited. Dennison and Engstrom had no desire to leave the Big Sky Conference. Hopefully, Bogner will request a meeting with the Mountain West to determine our options.

Bodner.

 

[Griz til I die]

Good information Navy. Certainly if UM doesn’t express interest, we will never be invited. Dennison and Engstrom had no desire to leave the Big Sky Conference. Hopefully, Bogner will request a meeting with the Mountain West to determine our options.

Bodner.

*Bodnar

 

[GrizGuy]

I find it funny this hasn't been discussed on this board.

During an interview for HERO Sports FCS Talk podcast, former UM AD Jim O'Day discusses the fact that Montana has had two opportunities to go to FBS.

The first one was in 2006 when the Mountain West approached. UM was interested but MSU wasn't. So the Montana BOR said nobody goes.

The second time was the WAC in 2010, and after an independent report it was found that it was actually more beneficial for UM to move to FBS. However, president Engstrom decided against it.

O'Day goes on to say that, given the current landscape of FCS with all the big schools going to FBS, if MWC were to invite UM/MSU again, they would seriously consider it.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, eh?


Full interview at https://herosports.com/fcs-podcast-jim-oday-bzbz/

I didn't hear O'Day say some of those things in the interview, unless I missed a key part. On the WAC one, he said the study, interestijlyng enough, showed that maybe UM should have moved up. He also said that UM was at a very good place where it was, and that the UM fan base was very much against moving up. They liked the playoff system. Yes, on the MW/MSU/Regents description.

I looked closely at the consultant's study. Brint and I also did our own "studies". O'Day told me that our "study" was longer than the consultant's. My recollection is not the same as O'Day's. I thought the study showed that UM didn't have required funds to move up. Since the WAC fell apart, I assume that UM is lucky that it didn't go to the WAC.

Just a personal take, but I'm really glad UM didn't go to the WAC, and I would hope the Griz don't join the WAC in the future. If the team does move to FBS, I hope it's to the Mtn West. Just feels like its members are more peer institutions than the schools in the WAC. Also, geographically, it "seems" like a better fit. Just my :twocents:

 

[mthoopsfan]

Why would joining the WAC have gotten UM in the MW? My impression is that UM joining the WAC would have been a huge disaster. See below. UM was talking to the WAC right before the WAC fell apart. Sorry, but that wouldn't have gotten UM into the MW. Perhaps int D-II, but not into the MW.

"How conference realignment wiped WAC football off the map"

"After more than a decade of membership changes, the Western Athletic Conference will not play football in 2013,"

"Currently, only four non-household names are set to remain in the conference: Seattle, Denver, New Mexico State and Idaho, with the Vandals exploring independence in football and Big Sky membership for their other sports. In 2012, the WAC will be a diseased seven-team football league limping through its 50th year. And come July 1, 2013, the once-respectable conference will be a carcass."

"The revolving door has spun even faster in recent years, as 14 teams have left or will leave the conference between 2005 and the end of the 2012 season."

"The WAC was earning around $4 million per year from ESPN, but following Boise State's exit in 2011, ESPN dramatically cut that figure. In 2011-12, each of the eight WAC schools received $104,873 in television revenue."

"The last reservoir the WAC could have tapped for membership was the Big Sky Conference, a league that has weathered the realignment storm and held strong in small Western media markets. The two conferences discussed a partnership in recent weeks, but those talks have largely fallen apart."

https://www.si.com/college/2012/08/21/wac-football-demise

The reason why UM would have gotten in the MWC...

After Utah, TCU and BYU withdrew from the MWC then Boise State and San Diego announced they were also leaving the MWC to join the Big East. Then the Big East lost teams and decided to be the non-football conference they are today. While it looked like Boise and San Diego State were gone, the MWC added Utah State and San Jose State. Then the football schools separated from the Big East, Boise and San Diego came back to the MWC. (Without every playing a game in the Big East). It is widely believed, that UM was seen as more attractive than San Jose State and would have gotten in over San Jose State.

The MWC had already added Fresno State, Hawaii (football only), Nevada Reno, along with Boise earlier. The MWC was killing off the WAC. UM would have gotten in over San Jose, I am pretty sure of it. No one has ever been thrilled about San Jose State in the MWC, especially San Diego State and Fresno State.

Thanks for your explanation, but, as usual, I don't believe you. "On May 2, 2012, San Jose State and Utah State agreed to join the conference for the 2013–14 academic year."

Montana talked to the WAC in 2012, according to the SI article. There was no MW invitation for UM before May 2, 2012, when San Jose committed to the MW. The SI article I linked was dated Aug. 21, 2012. The article said the Big Sky/WAC had talked in recent weeks, and already fallen apart. So, UM must have been taking to the WAC in about July 2012, or early August. How in the heck would UM have joined the WAC after August 2012, and then magically replaced San Jose St, which had joined the MW in May 2012, several months earlier. Sorry, but the timing doesn't work.

Also, let's see your source for your assertion that the MW preferred UM over San Jose St. I was talking frequently to O'Day in 2012, and following the move-up stuff closely. I recall no mention of the MW.

I recall that the UM study showed UM needed over an additional $5 million per year to move up, and that the best scenario had UM adding only $3 million per year in a move-up.

 

[captain jazz]

The reason why UM would have gotten in the MWC...

After Utah, TCU and BYU withdrew from the MWC then Boise State and San Diego announced they were also leaving the MWC to join the Big East. Then the Big East lost teams and decided to be the non-football conference they are today. While it looked like Boise and San Diego State were gone, the MWC added Utah State and San Jose State. Then the football schools separated from the Big East, Boise and San Diego came back to the MWC. (Without every playing a game in the Big East). It is widely believed, that UM was seen as more attractive than San Jose State and would have gotten in over San Jose State.

The MWC had already added Fresno State, Hawaii (football only), Nevada Reno, along with Boise earlier. The MWC was killing off the WAC. UM would have gotten in over San Jose, I am pretty sure of it. No one has ever been thrilled about San Jose State in the MWC, especially San Diego State and Fresno State.

Good information Navy. Certainly if UM doesn’t express interest, we will never be invited. Dennison and Engstrom had no desire to leave the Big Sky Conference. Hopefully, Bogner will request a meeting with the Mountain West to determine our options.

Don't mean to sound like I'm nitpicking here, but as per the original post, Dennison was very interested in joining the MWC back in 2006 - it was MSU/BOR who stopped it from happening.

 

[Spanky2]

Good information Navy. Certainly if UM doesn’t express interest, we will never be invited. Dennison and Engstrom had no desire to leave the Big Sky Conference. Hopefully, Bogner will request a meeting with the Mountain West to determine our options.

Don't mean to sound like I'm nitpicking here, but as per the original post, Dennison was very interested in joining the MWC back in 2006 - it was MSU/BOR who stopped it from happening.

I personally contacted Dennison at the time and he told me he had no interest in changing conferences and in his view, UM was exactly where it needed to be.

 

[captain jazz]

Don't mean to sound like I'm nitpicking here, but as per the original post, Dennison was very interested in joining the MWC back in 2006 - it was MSU/BOR who stopped it from happening.

I personally contacted Dennison at the time and he told me he had no interest in changing conferences and in his view, UM was exactly where it needed to be.

I'm not sure why you would expect any kind of different answer?

There's zero chance a university president is going to tell a member of the public that they're unhappy with their conference and they want to join one that hasn't given them an invite. I'd think that the athletic director has more inside knowledge of what's going on, and only years later has he made it public.

 

[Spanky2]

I personally contacted Dennison at the time and he told me he had no interest in changing conferences and in his view, UM was exactly where it needed to be.

I'm not sure why you would expect any kind of different answer?

There's zero chance a university president is going to tell a member of the public that they're unhappy with their conference and they want to join one that hasn't given them an invite. I'd think that the athletic director has more inside knowledge of what's going on, and only years later has he made it public.

Captain, I reported what Dennison said. He was firm.

 

[mthoopsfan]

I personally contacted Dennison at the time and he told me he had no interest in changing conferences and in his view, UM was exactly where it needed to be.

I'm not sure why you would expect any kind of different answer?

There's zero chance a university president is going to tell a member of the public that they're unhappy with their conference and they want to join one that hasn't given them an invite. I'd think that the athletic director has more inside knowledge of what's going on, and only years later has he made it public.

Note that O'Day didn't say in the interview that UM should have moved up.

There's zero chance Dennison didn't tell Spanky the truth. And that's what O'Day said Dennison believed.

 

[NavyBlue]

https://www.deseret.com/2022/4/14/23022879/college-football-is-a-mess-ncaa-power-five-group-of-five-college-football-playoff-dabo-swinney-cfp

I think big changes are on the horizon for college football. In my opinion, the group of 5 like those in the Mountain West will become the new de facto FCS. The current FCS will be the new de Facto D2 and so on...

I think college athletics will look very different in 5-10 years.

 

[kemajic]

https://www.deseret.com/2022/4/14/23022879/college-football-is-a-mess-ncaa-power-five-group-of-five-college-football-playoff-dabo-swinney-cfp
I think big changes are on the horizon for college football. In my opinion, the group of 5 like those in the Mountain West will become the new de facto FCS. The current FCS will be the new de Facto D2 and so on....

Exactly, Montana staying where it is longer term will be akin to a return to DII.

 

[hubcap]

I like this quote from the article:

“My transfer portal is right there in that locker room because if I’m constantly going out every year and adding guys from the transfer portal, I’m telling all those guys in that locker room that I don’t believe in them, that I don’t think they can play,” Swinney said. “We’re also not doing our job as coaches and recruiters if we’re bringing in a bunch of transfers.”

You hear that Hauck, Ryan and especially Germer?

 

[mthoopsfan]

https://www.deseret.com/2022/4/14/23022879/college-football-is-a-mess-ncaa-power-five-group-of-five-college-football-playoff-dabo-swinney-cfp

I think big changes are on the horizon for college football. In my opinion, the group of 5 like those in the Mountain West will become the new de facto FCS. The current FCS will be the new de Facto D2 and so on...

I think college athletics will look very different in 5-10 years.

I thought you knew I disagreed, and didn't care what I thought? I saw what you edited out. I'm good either way. Ha.

 

[NavyBlue]

https://www.deseret.com/2022/4/14/23022879/college-football-is-a-mess-ncaa-power-five-group-of-five-college-football-playoff-dabo-swinney-cfp

I think big changes are on the horizon for college football. In my opinion, the group of 5 like those in the Mountain West will become the new de facto FCS. The current FCS will be the new de Facto D2 and so on...

I think college athletics will look very different in 5-10 years.

I thought you knew I disagreed, and didn't care what I thought? I saw what you edited out. I'm good either way. Ha.

I don't care. Just decided not to feed your ego.