Feds to Begin Investigation

[Hammer]

gawd wrinkle, you are a piece of work. do you take yourself seriously? i've read absurd things on egriz, but twisting this into a conspiracy in which obama is throwing a small university and town under the bus in order to get women's votes?

Obama would throw his daughter under a bus to get votes, argie. For a really smart dude, you still need to take a history lesson. Please read the shortest book in the world, "Socialistic Societies Which Have Flourished in Historical Times"

Of course you don't like him, he's a "ghetto dude"! :shock:

 

[mtgrizrule]

So much for a boring offseason. Seriously, after this offseason, I will gladly take a boring offseason, over this kind bullshit, and publicity. Bring back the move up threads, the transfer rumors, the who is leaving rumors, etc. Hell ,even bring back the smack talk, righteous attitudes, crappy attitudes, sugar coaters, , and bashers.

I hate reading all this legal, and federal crap. I just pray the GRIZ athletic programs, athletes, and Missoula, come away relatively clean, and unscathed, when all is said, and done.

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

you didn't have a problem with people making assertions about your situation overseas and opening their wallets.....some on this thread included....

you don't have to agree with everyone here. but you are being an ass to people just to be an ass. for a guy that literally relied on the generousity of perfect strangers....i'm surprised this is the route you have chosen to take.

Why don't you leave Tokyo alone and stop being an ass, yourself.

Why dont you GFY and spare everyone your idiot defense ramblings regarding UM football?

 

[indian-outlaw]

gawd wrinkle, you are a piece of work. do you take yourself seriously? i've read absurd things on egriz, but twisting this into a conspiracy in which obama is throwing a small university and town under the bus in order to get women's votes?

Obama would throw his daughter under a bus to get votes, argie. For a really smart dude, you still need to take a history lesson. Please read the shortest book in the world, "Socialistic Societies Which Have Flourished in Historical Times"

Of course you don't like him, he's a "ghetto dude"! :shock:

:clap: :lol:

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

To get an accurate assesment of population vs crime rates you should use the missoula metropolian area which is around 100,000. The reason for this is large chunks of the city aren't officially in the city but the people in effect do live in missoula. I would also point out most people in the missoula metro area work, shop, and conduct a majority of their affairs in the city limits of missoula.

OK, I will play along, using your false 100k numbers we are still 2.5 times the national average.

But hey your the guy that likes to watch rapes happen then defend the guy doing it. You are good at your job, should have been another scumbag defense attorney...........

 

[PlayerRep]

To get an accurate assesment of population vs crime rates you should use the missoula metropolian area which is around 100,000. The reason for this is large chunks of the city aren't officially in the city but the people in effect do live in missoula. I would also point out most people in the missoula metro area work, shop, and conduct a majority of their affairs in the city limits of missoula.

OK, I will play along, using your false 100k numbers we are still 2.5 times the national average.

But hey your the guy that likes to watch rapes happen then defend the guy doing it. You are good at your job, should have been another scumbag defense attorney...........

"Missoula Police Chief Mark Muir acknowledged his department had received roughly 80 rape reports in the past three years. But he said that on a per-capita basis, that figure was at or below the average level of reported rapes for U.S. college towns of similar size and makeup."

 

[GavinDonuts]

To get an accurate assesment of population vs crime rates you should use the missoula metropolian area which is around 100,000. The reason for this is large chunks of the city aren't officially in the city but the people in effect do live in missoula. I would also point out most people in the missoula metro area work, shop, and conduct a majority of their affairs in the city limits of missoula.

OK, I will play along, using your false 100k numbers we are still 2.5 times the national average.

But hey your the guy that likes to watch rapes happen then defend the guy doing it. You are good at your job, should have been another scumbag defense attorney...........

"Missoula Police Chief Mark Muir acknowledged his department had received roughly 80 rape reports in the past three years. But he said that on a per-capita basis, that figure was at or below the average level of reported rapes for U.S. college towns of similar size and makeup."

"Our review to date involved interviews with numerous people, and a review of documents and other information. Our primary focus is not the number of reported allegations of sexual assault; rather, our focus is on the response."

This has nothing to do with rapes per capita, or even rapes per year. It's about covering them up. You know, that magical rug that UM has been sweeping EVERYTHING under for the past 10 -12 years? It's threadbare, and so are your tired-ass cliches. You are either being a willful idiot, or a literal idiot. Either way, you're a straight-up clown that cannot be taken seriously.

 

[tnt]

Heres the national figures

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mark Muir is not suprisingly telling the whole story. Hes leaving out the total number of rapes occuring in the
County which is closer to 50 per year. . .

http://www.co.missoula.mt.us/measures/Social/ViolentCrime.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The national average is 27.5/100,000. Missoula county is 50+/100000 by its own reporting.

 

[Tokyogriz]

interesting links. However...

The missoula info is very dated based on 2005/2006 at the latest.

The national info is an AVERAGE rate as well.

If you have taken statistics class you would know that AVERAGES are pretty useless when comparing totally different cities and in fact AVERAGES mean jack shit to be honest. Averages data is skewed by the outlyers or extremely high or low numbers.

Comparing East LA, Nome Alaska and missoula MT is pointless. This is what your doing with a national AVERAGE statistics data you linked.

To get a relevant population sample you have to use medians or most commonly occuring rates of crimes in SIMILIAR cities both in terms of population, economic levels, and demographics. In Missoulas case the 12,000 18-20 something kids running around in it does make it different than comparing it to say kalispell.

A more informitive link would be one that takes college towns of population 30k-150k and then compares their crime rates. This would be a more representative sample and have actual validity in comparing the cities differing crime rates.

 

[UMFB5943]

This has to be the biggest waste of government resources I have ever seen! As a student at UM I can confidently Say the handling of sexual assault wasn’t only in place but the process for victims was announced and information was available to everyone, it just relied on the victim to be responsible enough to listen during freshman /transfer orientation and not skip sessions or come hung over. How do they consider this process to be ineffective? Do we really need to cloud the educational environment with hundreds of “sexual Assault will not be tolerated at UM” posters and create special Classes/programs on sexual Assault for something that is and has been known and should be common sense?
Now with the post-Allegation handling the only problems found were the time it took to process due to the UM policy of requiring burden of proof, a more involved process of proving guilt in that of the student being accused, and that many allegations were found to be false. If you ask me rape cases should require burden of proof so that both the victimized and the accused are protected. Many of us forget that not only the victim but also the one being accused get hurt in Rape cases taking into account the possibility of this allegation becoming false. Imagine For a second an accused rapist was found innocent. With his reputation destroyed he won’t even get a front page article informing the public. Also if He was fired, divorced, expelled, Beaten, or out casted it’s not like any of those situations can be reversed.
This investigation should, if nothing-else, look into the blatant discrimination and Civil rights violations that have been committed by University officials, Police, and the entire community in how they dealt with the cases involving football players who, mind you, where all dismissed. These athletes are being demoralized in the media, facing expulsion ever after being proven innocent in a court of law, and now because of um’s new policies, facing expulsion proceedings if they are even accused. I guess Due Process exists only in the U.S. constitution, not at Montana.
I hope all the athletes that were improperly treated by the UM Administration, on the basis of racial discrimination, civil rights violations and profiling, file a class action lawsuit against the University of Montana and then we could get some real changes in leadership.

 

[Grizbeer]

gawd wrinkle, you are a piece of work. do you take yourself seriously? i've read absurd things on egriz, but twisting this into a conspiracy in which obama is throwing a small university and town under the bus in order to get women's votes?

Apparently some of the members of the Missoula City Council feel this is exactly what is going on. From Bob Jaffe's (one of Missoula's most liberal city council members) government blog:

One of my colleagues suggested this could be part of the president’s response to the Republican War on Women. An unprecedented DOJ probe into civil rights abuses against women with lots of press could play well in the campaign.

http://www.missoulagov.org/Update%2020120502" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[bisonboone11]

To get an accurate assesment of population vs crime rates you should use the missoula metropolian area which is around 100,000. The reason for this is large chunks of the city aren't officially in the city but the people in effect do live in missoula. I would also point out most people in the missoula metro area work, shop, and conduct a majority of their affairs in the city limits of missoula.

Then if you are going to compare these stats with other cities of comparable size, you need to also include their metropolitan areas. You can't just increase the population of one city to make its stats look better.

 

[bisonboone11]

I just found some interesting information that sheds a little more light on the statistics that everyone is quoting (including myself). The FBI just changed its definition of the "rape" in 2012, which will make it much broader and include many more cases. The previous definition that had been in place since the late 1920s, and the definition that was used to collect these statistics, was "the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will." Under the new definition, rape can involve a range of assaults where consent is not given. Also, based on this new (and more accurate) definition, a victim can be rendered unable to consent by drugs and/or alcohol, which is what it sounds like are the majority of what people have been accused of at UofM. This would also include date rape, which was not included in the statistics. For example, Chicago didn't report any rapes in 2009 because their definition of rape didn't match up with what the FBI had. I highly doubt Chicago had no rapes for an entire year. It would be interesting to hear how many rapes (by the new definition) all of these cities had, including Missoula.

Here is the link stating the changes that the FBI is making in more detail: http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PlayerRep]

To get an accurate assesment of population vs crime rates you should use the missoula metropolian area which is around 100,000. The reason for this is large chunks of the city aren't officially in the city but the people in effect do live in missoula. I would also point out most people in the missoula metro area work, shop, and conduct a majority of their affairs in the city limits of missoula.

OK, I will play along, using your false 100k numbers we are still 2.5 times the national average.

But hey your the guy that likes to watch rapes happen then defend the guy doing it. You are good at your job, should have been another scumbag defense attorney...........

"Missoula Police Chief Mark Muir acknowledged his department had received roughly 80 rape reports in the past three years. But he said that on a per-capita basis, that figure was at or below the average level of reported rapes for U.S. college towns of similar size and makeup."

"Our review to date involved interviews with numerous people, and a review of documents and other information. Our primary focus is not the number of reported allegations of sexual assault; rather, our focus is on the response."

This has nothing to do with rapes per capita, or even rapes per year. It's about covering them up. You know, that magical rug that UM has been sweeping EVERYTHING under for the past 10 -12 years? It's threadbare, and so are your tired-ass cliches. You are either being a willful idiot, or a literal idiot. Either way, you're a straight-up clown that cannot be taken seriously.

Once again you are late to the party, and completely out to lunch with your comments. The sub-point being discussed was whether the cited number of 80 reported rapes in 3 years, was just what it said--or whether DOJ had selected 80 questionable investigations from a larger number of reported rapes in that period.

Most of us, and certainly I, understand that the response to rapes is what is being investigated. While I suppose it's possible DOJ will find something to criticize, but there has not been a coverup and there will be no finding of a coverup.

The country prosecutors office is a strong office and does a very good job, and nothing of note will be found, is my prediction. I assume the police probably do a good job of investigating sexual assaults, and little or nothing of substance (note the word substance) will be found. I suppose what is already known (comments of chief, etc.) could be mentioned. The university probably has a done a credible job, and has probably improved their rules and procedures in more recent times. The problem at the university may be that they have been treating the accused properly or fairly. If a report is done, I assume it will contain some things that don't have much substance, as they will want to justify the investigation as best they can--even though I doubt they will find anything of substance about lack or poor investigation of sexual assaults. I suppose a report could find that poor people and Indians get longer sentences than others. One of the local judges has already pointed that out in recent years.

 

[PlayerRep]

gawd wrinkle, you are a piece of work. do you take yourself seriously? i've read absurd things on egriz, but twisting this into a conspiracy in which obama is throwing a small university and town under the bus in order to get women's votes?

Apparently some of the members of the Missoula City Council feel this is exactly what is going on. From Bob Jaffe's (one of Missoula's most liberal city council members) government blog:

One of my colleagues suggested this could be part of the president’s response to the Republican War on Women. An unprecedented DOJ probe into civil rights abuses against women with lots of press could play well in the campaign.

http://www.missoulagov.org/Update%2020120502" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll wait for the apologies from various posters who criticized me for mentioning this possibility (i.e. possible political motivation) and providing some other quotes yesterday.

 

[tnt]

Who knows maybe he reads egriz and you were the colleague who suggested it. I thought you were the one decrying quoting unnamed sources.....

 

[getgrizzy]

a low number of rapes would be worth tooting your horn about if they showed a decrease from previous numbers. a low number compared to the national average may be due to a lack of a proper response by the legal authorities or school administrators tasked with doing just that. so there's really nothing to see here.

the d.o.j. isn't here because we have had 80 rape reports in three years, they're here because there are allegations that some of them haven't been handled properly. i keep hearing several things. one is that an alleged rape victim was told not to go to the police because she'd be better off going through u of m than she would going to the police. the other is that despite receiving an allegation of rape the police didn't adequately investigate it. another is that the alleged victims report rapes only to be told by u of m and the police that it's very hard to make a rape charge stick, among other things to discourage the alleged victim from pursuing the charge. add in the allegation that some of the alleged victims claimed to have been drugged.

so p.r. there ya go, you can quick trying to get away from the real issue by pretending to be focused on the number of reports.

 

[getgrizzy]

gawd wrinkle, you are a piece of work. do you take yourself seriously? i've read absurd things on egriz, but twisting this into a conspiracy in which obama is throwing a small university and town under the bus in order to get women's votes?

Apparently some of the members of the Missoula City Council feel this is exactly what is going on. From Bob Jaffe's (one of Missoula's most liberal city council members) government blog:

One of my colleagues suggested this could be part of the president’s response to the Republican War on Women. An unprecedented DOJ probe into civil rights abuses against women with lots of press could play well in the campaign.

http://www.missoulagov.org/Update%2020120502" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll wait for the apologies from various posters who criticized me for mentioning this possibility (i.e. possible political motivation) and providing some other quotes yesterday.

there's about as good a chance that this is politically motivated as there is a chance that all the agencies are conspiring to allow rapes to happen. that'd be none. republican or democrat, no one wants this investigation to happen on their watch, so not a big surprise that a liberal city council member would be trying to smokescreen this. but good luck with that. the only way it turns into a political thing is if those on the defensive keep making that claim.

 

[AllWeatherFan]

I predict that the Feds will conclude their investigation by determining that, while they do not find any evidence of systemic discrimination, there are plenty of things that the university, police department and county attorney's office can do to improve their work in this area.

The Feds have limitless resources compared to these other entities, and when you have limitless resources, you can always find improvements that need to be made by other people.

 

[ilovethecats]

Thanks for pointing this out. I'll wait for the apologies from various posters who criticized me for mentioning this possibility (i.e. possible political motivation) and providing some other quotes yesterday.

why would we apologize? because others share your opinion that seems far-fetched to many of us? i think obama is a muslim terrorist. you can think i'm crazy but let me offer some links to people who agree with me.

According to a recently-released survey, many Alabama and Mississippi Republicans overwhelmingly believe President Obama to be Muslim

Email rumor alleges that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim and has lied to the American people about his religious ties, including his claim to being a devout Christian for most of his adult life

Barack Hussein Obama was enrolled in a Washabi school in Jakarta , Indonesia. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorist who are now waging Jihad - war against the Western World - United States. ie. 911

Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that , He was a muslim , but has now joined the Trinity United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. Since it is politically expedient to be a Christan when seeking Major public office in the United States. Also , keep in mind that when he was sworn in to office - he DID NOT use the Holy Bible , but Kuran.

i't has to be true right? other people agree with me. if you don't, i'll patiently wait for your apology....

:thumb: