Faculty ask for reconsideration of Hauck hire

[HookedonGriz]

Just set the same standard. If a student (non-athlete) gets in trouble the school should hold that professor(s) partially responsible. They should have their pay tied to enrollment in their classes and overall student conduct. How fast are these professors going to argue that they can’t control what kids do outside of their class?

Hammer meet nail.....mic drop....end thread

 

[SoldierGriz]

Seriously - how many faculty members did NOT sign the letter?

I know some mentioned that "more faculty" was behind the effort of the 28...

Geez - they can't even get to 37 signatures. As such - they are not truly representative of the UM.

 

[signedbewildered]

"Seriously - how many faculty members did NOT sign the letter? "


The rest of them.

 

[SoldierGriz]

"Seriously - how many faculty members did NOT sign the letter? "


The rest of them.

:thumb:

 

[PlayerRep]

One of the things these 28 faculty are looking for is a scapegoat for the declining enrollment. They seem to think they can explain away their lack of recruiting efforts by pinning UM's problems on Hauck. I know many faculty members who recruit like crazy - and their departments ended up in the top category in the APASP process. However, far more faculty members take the approach of "We're UM.....of course students will come here" or "Recruiting is someone else's job. I was hired to teach." Like any business, you have to get the consumers in the door first. Young people want to feel like they are wanted and welcomed - just like all the rest of us.

I guarantee the few faculty I know on this list are not looking for a scapegoat.

Then, what are they doing? Do you think their level of though, research and scholarship is higher thanks what is displayed in the letter, or the pieces that the Missoulian cited?

There is no way that Hauck can be legitimately blamed for helping create or creating an atmosphere for the UM sexual assault non-scandal. Also, he was a huge disciplinarian. Any player who got into serious trouble got dismissed from the team promptly. No sexual assault or sexual assault allegations arose while he was at UM. Yes, he recruited Donaldson, who pled guilty 2.5 (?) years after Hauck departed.

As for UM's sexual assault non-scandal. Besides rumors, untruths and lies printed by some of the media, at the end of the day, it consisted of: Donaldson; JJ being acquitted, never kicked out of school, never losing his scholarship, graduating, getting a settlement from UM, and I would say being vindicated; and no one who got a lawyer to fight the one sexual assault proceeding getting kicked out of school (in fact, they were allowed to graduate).

I must say that whoever wrote that faculty letter is either a pure partisan, didn't do any research, or is a total XXX. I would not allow on of my kids to take a course from that lot.

 

[fanofzoo]

Just set the same standard. If a student (non-athlete) gets in trouble the school should hold that professor(s) partially responsible. They should have their pay tied to enrollment in their classes and overall student conduct. How fast are these professors going to argue that they can’t control what kids do outside of their class?

Grades, what about grades.

 

[SoldierGriz]

Just set the same standard. If a student (non-athlete) gets in trouble the school should hold that professor(s) partially responsible. They should have their pay tied to enrollment in their classes and overall student conduct. How fast are these professors going to argue that they can’t control what kids do outside of their class?

Grades, what about grades.

They can't grade their students' work however. They have to send the work to bozeman, and let cat professors grade it. You know - preparing their students to compete in the real world.

 

[signedbewildered]

"Seriously - how many faculty members did NOT sign the letter? "


The rest of them.

:thumb:

We were moving cows down the road years ago and this kid, maybe 6 years old, was hanging on the fence at the end of his driveway pointing his finger at each one as they went by like he was counting them (as he had watched us do many times.) As I trailed up the herd and passed him by I asked "How many did you count Bucky?" He replied wiith a serious look on his face..."All of them."

 

[SoldierGriz]

"Seriously - how many faculty members did NOT sign the letter? "


The rest of them.

:thumb:

We were moving cows down the road years ago and this kid, maybe 6 years old, was hanging on the fence at the end of his driveway pointing his finger at each one as they went by like he was counting them (as he had watched us do many times.) As I trailed up the herd and passed him by I asked "How many did you count Bucky?" He replied wiith a serious look on his face..."All of them."

Smart kid. Hope he grew into a bruising fullback for BH's offense.

 

[fanofzoo]

And no discussion on royce who brought this all on...and still works there :shock:

 

[GGNez]

She is hardly a new poster.

You have to remember that most of the posters on here have the memory of my chocolate lab pup...

I never tire of men fighting over me.

Somehow I'm not surprised. I bet you're a handful. In a good way that is, I travel quite a bit, and have met women from many different cultures, and not all women are progressive, and willing to speak their minds.

Men fighting over me was somewhat of a joke but, yes, I do imagine I’m a bit of a handful and people rarely have to guess what I’m thinking. I’m going to start referring to it as “swagger” and blame (or credit) BH’s return.

 

[IdaGriz01]

Just set the same standard. If a student (non-athlete) gets in trouble the school should hold that professor(s) partially responsible. They should have their pay tied to enrollment in their classes and overall student conduct. How fast are these professors going to argue that they can’t control what kids do outside of their class?

Grades, what about grades.

Fortunately, I got out of teaching (evening classes/mostly graduate) before "grade inflation" started to creep into the sciences. Now, grades mean nothing as to the knowledge and competence of the student. In fact, I was totally shocked to see (in an older US News &WP article) that "more than 40 percent of all grades awarded were in the A range" among a survey sample of 200 colleges and universities. https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

That is total bulls**t! With that, any yoo-yoo should be able to end up with a GPA over 3.5 -- even if they never crack a book. My friends who are still in the supervisory workforce tell me, flat-out, that they pay no attention to the GPA any more. One lady said she interviewed an applicant who had a straight-A record. But a half-dozen easy questions indicated that this graduate (won't mention the school) had significant skill/knowledge gaps in the field where he had supposedly earned a B.S. degree.

So any criteria based on grades attained is probably totally worthless -- too many "A's" handed out as participation ribbons.

Edit: Yes, for undergraduate classes I did "grade on the curve."

 

[signedbewildered]

She said the email didn't make a physical threat, but "it reads pretty threatening." She said the email told the signers they should be more focused on their jobs than on Hauck...."
........

If this is true Kent, how the hell does this happen? Allowing folks from your team to pour gas on this fire isn’t great management or leadership.
.......

I don't know exactly what was said/written/shared. Odd that she wasn't more specific. Remember a certain group of people absolutely LOVE to use words like threatening, scared, intimidated, harassing, victim.

Just sayin'.

 

[grizpsych]

One of the things these 28 faculty are looking for is a scapegoat for the declining enrollment. They seem to think they can explain away their lack of recruiting efforts by pinning UM's problems on Hauck. I know many faculty members who recruit like crazy - and their departments ended up in the top category in the APASP process. However, far more faculty members take the approach of "We're UM.....of course students will come here" or "Recruiting is someone else's job. I was hired to teach." Like any business, you have to get the consumers in the door first. Young people want to feel like they are wanted and welcomed - just like all the rest of us.

I guarantee the few faculty I know on this list are not looking for a scapegoat.

Then, what are they doing? Do you think their level of though, research and scholarship is higher thanks what is displayed in the letter, or the pieces that the Missoulian cited?

There is no way that Hauck can be legitimately blamed for helping create or creating an atmosphere for the UM sexual assault non-scandal. Also, he was a huge disciplinarian. Any player who got into serious trouble got dismissed from the team promptly. No sexual assault or sexual assault allegations arose while he was at UM. Yes, he recruited Donaldson, who pled guilty 2.5 (?) years after Hauck departed.

As for UM's sexual assault non-scandal. Besides rumors, untruths and lies printed by some of the media, at the end of the day, it consisted of: Donaldson; JJ being acquitted, never kicked out of school, never losing his scholarship, graduating, getting a settlement from UM, and I would say being vindicated; and no one who got a lawyer to fight the one sexual assault proceeding getting kicked out of school (in fact, they were allowed to graduate).

I must say that whoever wrote that faculty letter is either a pure partisan, didn't do any research, or is a total XXX. I would not allow on of my kids to take a course from that lot.

I really have no idea what the bold part means. Also, other than stating what I did previously, I won't speak for the ones I know.

Edit: One other thing. You don't need to remind me of the past, I know. Indeed, my name would not be on that list if I were faculty at UM. I think people are responsible for their own actions. And, I think people can grow and change from their experiences. :thumb:

 

[jtgriz2]

And no discussion on royce who brought this all on...and still works there :shock:

Maybe we should start a petition against Royce’s position at UM

 

[SoldierGriz]

Just set the same standard. If a student (non-athlete) gets in trouble the school should hold that professor(s) partially responsible. They should have their pay tied to enrollment in their classes and overall student conduct. How fast are these professors going to argue that they can’t control what kids do outside of their class?

Grades, what about grades.

Fortunately, I got out of teaching (evening classes/mostly graduate) before "grade inflation" started to creep into the sciences. Now, grades mean nothing as to the knowledge and competence of the student. In fact, I was totally shocked to see (in an older US News &WP article) that "more than 40 percent of all grades awarded were in the A range" among a survey sample of 200 colleges and universities. https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

That is total bulls**t! With that, any yoo-yoo should be able to end up with a GPA over 3.5 -- even if they never crack a book. My friends who are still in the supervisory workforce tell me, flat-out, that they pay no attention to the GPA any more. One lady said she interviewed an applicant who had a straight-A record. But a half-dozen easy questions indicated that this graduate (won't mention the school) had significant skill/knowledge gaps in the field where he had supposedly earned a B.S. degree.

So any criteria based on grades attained is probably totally worthless -- too many "A's" handed out as participation ribbons.

Edit: Yes, for undergraduate classes I did "grade on the curve."

Thank you!

 

[bgbigdog]

She said the email didn't make a physical threat, but "it reads pretty threatening." She said the email told the signers they should be more focused on their jobs than on Hauck...."
........

If this is true Kent, how the hell does this happen? Allowing folks from your team to pour gas on this fire isn’t great management or leadership.
.......

I don't know exactly what was said/written/shared. Odd that she wasn't more specific. Remember a certain group of people absolutely LOVE to use words like threatening, scared, intimidated, harassing, victim.

Just sayin'.

You know if there had been no email, that short paragraph wouldn’t have contributed to the delirium. Just sayin...

 

[grizpsych]

Just set the same standard. If a student (non-athlete) gets in trouble the school should hold that professor(s) partially responsible. They should have their pay tied to enrollment in their classes and overall student conduct. How fast are these professors going to argue that they can’t control what kids do outside of their class?

Grades, what about grades.

Fortunately, I got out of teaching (evening classes/mostly graduate) before "grade inflation" started to creep into the sciences. Now, grades mean nothing as to the knowledge and competence of the student. In fact, I was totally shocked to see (in an older US News &WP article) that "more than 40 percent of all grades awarded were in the A range" among a survey sample of 200 colleges and universities. https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

That is total bulls**t! With that, any yoo-yoo should be able to end up with a GPA over 3.5 -- even if they never crack a book. My friends who are still in the supervisory workforce tell me, flat-out, that they pay no attention to the GPA any more. One lady said she interviewed an applicant who had a straight-A record. But a half-dozen easy questions indicated that this graduate (won't mention the school) had significant skill/knowledge gaps in the field where he had supposedly earned a B.S. degree.

So any criteria based on grades attained is probably totally worthless -- too many "A's" handed out as participation ribbons.

Edit: Yes, for undergraduate classes I did "grade on the curve."

Grade inflation is so bad now. From a different perspective, I don't inflate grades and I don't curve. The amount of supposed "A" students whining to me that they cannot believe they are getting a C in my courses is outstanding. My usual reply is welcome to a real college course.

 

[signedbewildered]

She said the email didn't make a physical threat, but "it reads pretty threatening." She said the email told the signers they should be more focused on their jobs than on Hauck...."
........

If this is true Kent, how the hell does this happen? Allowing folks from your team to pour gas on this fire isn’t great management or leadership.
.......

I don't know exactly what was said/written/shared. Odd that she wasn't more specific. Remember a certain group of people absolutely LOVE to use words like threatening, scared, intimidated, harassing, victim.

Just sayin'.

You know if there had been no email, that short paragraph wouldn’t have contributed to the delirium. Just sayin...

And if there was no letter there would likely have been no email.

 

[IdaGriz01]

... Fortunately, I got out of teaching (evening classes/mostly graduate) before "grade inflation" started to creep into the sciences. Now, grades mean nothing as to the knowledge and competence of the student. In fact, I was totally shocked to see (in an older US News &WP article) that "more than 40 percent of all grades awarded were in the A range" among a survey sample of 200 colleges and universities. https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blog...inflation-is-a-real-problem-and-how-to-fix-it

That is total bulls**t! With that, any yoo-yoo should be able to end up with a GPA over 3.5 -- even if they never crack a book. My friends who are still in the supervisory workforce tell me, flat-out, that they pay no attention to the GPA any more. One lady said she interviewed an applicant who had a straight-A record. But a half-dozen easy questions indicated that this graduate (won't mention the school) had significant skill/knowledge gaps in the field where he had supposedly earned a B.S. degree.

So any criteria based on grades attained is probably totally worthless -- too many "A's" handed out as participation ribbons.

Edit: Yes, for undergraduate classes I did "grade on the curve."

Grade inflation is so bad now. From a different perspective, I don't inflate grades and I don't curve. The amount of supposed "A" students whining to me that they cannot believe they are getting a C in my courses is outstanding. My usual reply is welcome to a real college course.

Glad to hear there are still pockets of sanity ... wish there more more. I don't suppose you get glowing reviews in those "faculty evaluations" complied by the student body.