Enrollment Growth - First Time In 10 Years

[AllWeatherFan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4

 

[argh!]

Out of state students pay
way more than in-state students. MSU has worked it's ass off to attract MORE out of state students to keeps the income up. And it has worked. Blgs Griz is way off base here. Out of state students HELP our university!

You are looking at it from a pure tuition stand point. Sure they pay more in tuition. As they should. However, those in state students come from families that live in Montana, many for generations, and have contributed to the tax base that finances the University System and have done so for many years. Those families may have students educated here that leave after graduation but those families have supported the University System for years.

How many years have the out of state student families paid Montana taxes to support the University System? The answer to that is likely zero or minimal. Yet those out of state students come here, use the university facilities provided by tax paying Montanans, as well as the local infrastructure again paid for by Montana tax revenues. After graduation many of those students, if not most, leave Montana to be employed in careers and pay taxes where they live. How does the University system benefit from that scenario?

I am looking at it from a different perspective. I view my tax contribution to the University System as an investment and expect a reasonable return on my investment. Take a look at the expansion of the engineering program at MSU. How much infrastructure expansion would be necessary if that school had not promoted itself to out of state students? Just how did the recruitment of out of state students translate to the taxation of Montana residents?

have you ever considered backing up your statements with facts? i know that is passé these days, but...

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

You are looking at it from a pure tuition stand point. Sure they pay more in tuition. As they should. However, those in state students come from families that live in Montana, many for generations, and have contributed to the tax base that finances the University System and have done so for many years. Those families may have students educated here that leave after graduation but those families have supported the University System for years.

How many years have the out of state student families paid Montana taxes to support the University System? The answer to that is likely zero or minimal. Yet those out of state students come here, use the university facilities provided by tax paying Montanans, as well as the local infrastructure again paid for by Montana tax revenues. After graduation many of those students, if not most, leave Montana to be employed in careers and pay taxes where they live. How does the University system benefit from that scenario?

I am looking at it from a different perspective. I view my tax contribution to the University System as an investment and expect a reasonable return on my investment. Take a look at the expansion of the engineering program at MSU. How much infrastructure expansion would be necessary if that school had not promoted itself to out of state students? Just how did the recruitment of out of state students translate to the taxation of Montana residents?

The University System doesn't succeed without students from out-of-state. Your perspective would increase the tax contribution of every Montanan significantly just to maintain the existing levels. Plain and simple, your perspective isn't feasible.

Disagree

 

[AllWeatherFan]

This article seems to support Helena’s position on out of state student enrollment. UM is making a concerted effort to attract out of state students:

https://missoulian.com/news/local/um-attracts-out-of-state-students-but-overall-enrollment-still-falling/article_16bcc204-8246-537c-8f19-bb506eb47594.html

 

[noncasualobserver]

The University System doesn't succeed without students from out-of-state. Your perspective would increase the tax contribution of every Montanan significantly just to maintain the existing levels. Plain and simple, your perspective isn't feasible.

Disagree

You're wrong as far as simple math, tax payer cost and benefit, what's good for the universities and the state of Montana, etc.. MUS leadership/BOR, the governor, each university president and each VP finance know you're wrong as well because of math and attendance number. You can disagree, keep your totally incorrect opinion and scream at clouds.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

The University System doesn't succeed without students from out-of-state. Your perspective would increase the tax contribution of every Montanan significantly just to maintain the existing levels. Plain and simple, your perspective isn't feasible.

Disagree

I will even take the stance that more out-of-state students will make the University System stronger. State support at UM is less than 50%. Any idea where the remainder comes from? At MSU, state support is less than 35%. For the entire University System, state support is 45%. Tuition is what makes the system function, and out-of-state tuition is the golden goose.

 

[406 Grizzly]

Disagree

I will even take the stance that more out-of-state students will make the University System stronger. State support at UM is less than 50%. Any idea where the remainder comes from? At MSU, state support is less than 35%. For the entire University System, state support is 45%. Tuition is what makes the system function, and out-of-state tuition is the golden goose.

Exactly correct!! Blgs Griz Fan, why do you think out of state tuition is significantly larger than in-state tuition?

 

[IdaGriz01]

I will even take the stance that more out-of-state students will make the University System stronger. State support at UM is less than 50%. Any idea where the remainder comes from? At MSU, state support is less than 35%. For the entire University System, state support is 45%. Tuition is what makes the system function, and out-of-state tuition is the golden goose.

Exactly correct!! Blgs Griz Fan, why do you think out of state tuition is significantly larger than in-state tuition?

There may be some, but I do not know of any state that doesn't do it that way for their state-supported schools. And the rationale (excuse) IS about return versus investment ... supposedly offsetting the investment the student's parents did not make in the state's educational infrastructure. How much of that is worked out through the $$$ numbers versus how much is WAG you can't tell, but that's the idea.

 

[Spanky2]

Disagree

I will even take the stance that more out-of-state students will make the University System stronger. State support at UM is less than 50%. Any idea where the remainder comes from? At MSU, state support is less than 35%. For the entire University System, state support is 45%. Tuition is what makes the system function, and out-of-state tuition is the golden goose.

Billings must want UM to be like Billings West or Missoula Sentinel. The experience of a student would be much less rewarding if there were not a good number of out of state and foreign students in attendance.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Exactly correct!! Blgs Griz Fan, why do you think out of state tuition is significantly larger than in-state tuition?

There may be some, but I do not know of any state that doesn't do it that way for their state-supported schools. And the rationale (excuse) IS about return versus investment ... supposedly offsetting the investment the student's parents did not make in the state's educational infrastructure. How much of that is worked out through the $$$ numbers versus how much is WAG you can't tell, but that's the idea.

The rationale is the taxpayers are left paying the debt for expanded facilities needed to accommodate increased enrollment after the students leave. Out of state students come in and do pay higher tuition as they should and they use the facilities provided by the taxpayers of Montana. Many if not most leave Montana after graduating and their contribution then ceases leaving the burden of maintaining the facilities to the taxpayers and the next class of incoming out of state students which is never a given.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

There may be some, but I do not know of any state that doesn't do it that way for their state-supported schools. And the rationale (excuse) IS about return versus investment ... supposedly offsetting the investment the student's parents did not make in the state's educational infrastructure. How much of that is worked out through the $$$ numbers versus how much is WAG you can't tell, but that's the idea.

The rationale is the taxpayers are left paying the debt for expanded facilities needed to accommodate increased enrollment after the students leave. Out of state students come in and do pay higher tuition as they should and they use the facilities provided by the taxpayers of Montana. Many if not most leave Montana after graduating and their contribution then ceases leaving the burden of maintaining the facilities to the taxpayers and the next class of incoming out of state students which is never a given.

So your rationale is that growth is bad? In reality, if you want to complain about cost of supporting institutions of higher education, maybe you should ask why the state of Montana has so many public schools for such a small population.