Email from O'Day about the WAC, BSC & More.

[Unwrittengriz]

Add in the problem of Title IX. As the future of college education is being predicted, soon 75-80% of students are going to be female. If so, then that same percentage has to be applied to sports. With the size of the football team, it's entirely possible that football will be the only male sport played. Bye bye basketball, track, etc.

Would love to know where you heard this. Are men going to suddenly stop attending college, fighting in WWIII, working the mines?

 

[TheBud]

Add in the problem of Title IX. As the future of college education is being predicted, soon 75-80% of students are going to be female. If so, then that same percentage has to be applied to sports. With the size of the football team, it's entirely possible that football will be the only male sport played. Bye bye basketball, track, etc.

Would love to know where you heard this. Are men going to suddenly stop attending college, fighting in WWIII, working the mines?

Not sure where he got the stats, but the trend is there to reach 60% female in US colleges. There are already more women than men in and graduating from colleges.

There have been so many programs for girls that boys are getting left behind, IMHO. Boys are becoming the social retards as they retreat to their caves of playing video games with their virtual/on-line "friends", shutting out the rest of the world.

Personally, I think that it is a disturbing trend.

 

[fencer24]

http://education-portal.com/articles/Leaving_Men_Behind:_Women_Go_to_College_in_Ever-Greater_Numbers.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm

And these are just some of the numbers. What is really happening is that a college education isn't worth as much anymore. Why go to school for four years and take out $60K plus in loans to work at a job paying $24K? Especially if you can go to a tech school, learn construction and make $60K plus a year with no loans?

 

[TheBud]

http://education-portal.com/articles/Leaving_Men_Behind:_Women_Go_to_College_in_Ever-Greater_Numbers.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm

And these are just some of the numbers. What is really happening is that a college education isn't worth as much anymore. Why go to school for four years and take out $60K plus in loans to work at a job paying $24K? Especially if you can go to a tech school, learn construction and make $60K plus a year with no loans?

I don't see any predictions of 75% to 80% in there. I don't think your theory has as big of an impact as you say. Boys are dropping prospects for college long before they analyze the prospects of incomes versus potential debt.

Here is a Q&A about the subject that is pretty revealing:
Q&A: College gender gap has far-reaching consequences
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-02-09-whyboysfail09_ST_N.htm

James Madison is given as an example.

In Clint Eastwood's movie Gran Torino, there was an interesting line:

The (minority) girls go to college and the boys go to prison.

 

[BWahlberg]

Bowl qualifications may be adjusted to add losers:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100929/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_bowl_dilemma

So, considering that there won't even be enough teams with winning records, they should let 5 win teams into some bowl systems. Sounds like a pretty high quality operation that demands the utmost excellence from its teams.

 

[PlayerRep]

Grizmayor posts aside, here is my current reasoning for favoring a move.

Quite frankly, the welfare of the BSC and FCS concerns me much more than taking a chance in moving.

!

What O'Day said about FCS, the playoffs and the Big Sky were not accurate. He's taking huge flak nationally for his inaccurate statements. I headr that he spent much of yesterday apologizing. FCS is healthy, the Big Sky has strengthend and stabilized itself recenlty, and the ncaa is not even considering eliminating the playoffs. This is on good authority. The playoffs have made money in some years. A $400,000 loss is nothing, especially compared to the $5 million loss for the women's ncca hoops tourney. O'Day needs to be more careful or he will be out of a job.

 

[PlayerRep]

It seems as if the moment is fraught with peril no matter what we do or don't do. I have long been a fan of staying put, with the actual championship being decided on the field, and a feeling of some sort of equality at least at the playoff level. Now, I am not so sure.
Some have mentioned dropping NAU, ISU and No Co, but what if they just quit? We would no longer be a big enough conference to retain an AQ status for the playoffs, and most of the FCS writers are in the East, so maybe one school would get in the playoffs from the Big Sky, but not two. Throw in the idea that Cal Poly and UC Davis may be in the Big Sky for only as long as it takes to be added to some new FBS conference centered in California, and the Big Sky could completely disappear. Add in the problem of Title IX. As the future of college education is being predicted, soon 75-80% of students are going to be female. If so, then that same percentage has to be applied to sports. With the size of the football team, it's entirely possible that football will be the only male sport played. Bye bye basketball, track, etc.
Then there is the idea of joining the WAC which brought O'Day to Texas so he could watch the presentations of Seattle U and some other no name that are applying. If we did go to the WAC what schools will be there in two or three more years? Would we be moving from one imploding conference to another?
The way I see it, in ten years there will be no FCS teams of consequence west of the Mississippi. TThe FCS will become a version of JuCo championship, interesting only to those in their geographic area. The old Big Sky will probably be reconstituted at the FBS level, and it would be cool to have UNR, Boise State Montana and Idaho in the same conference again, even though I doubt it will happen. But with all of those tiny schools trying to move into the FBS, who would be left to play that would be willing to travel to Montana?
We have two choices and they both involve moving up. First, go with the WAC invite, try to get up to full speed and look for a better conference if available. Second, stay in the FCS and hope that enough FCS schools in the West decide to move up at the same time to create our own conference.

We are living the Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

None of the Big Sky schools are planning to drop football. NAU was in the worst shape, and they have stabilized.

 

[Grizmayor]

Grizmayor posts aside, here is my current reasoning for favoring a move.

Quite frankly, the welfare of the BSC and FCS concerns me much more than taking a chance in moving.

!

What O'Day said about FCS, the playoffs and the Big Sky were not accurate. He's taking huge flak nationally for his inaccurate statements. I headr that he spent much of yesterday apologizing. FCS is healthy, the Big Sky has strengthend and stabilized itself recenlty, and the ncaa is not even considering eliminating the playoffs. This is on good authority. The playoffs have made money in some years. A $400,000 loss is nothing, especially compared to the $5 million loss for the women's ncca hoops tourney. O'Day needs to be more careful or he will be out of a job.

Don't confuse them with the facts. Half of O'Day's letter is "hope" for funding... He still hasn't figured out where the money's coming from to play Starter Bra Ball. I can only imagine he got taken to the woodshed by the NCAA... ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch.

 

[yellowstone60]

info about the "alleged" email in today's Missoulian;
http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_f2cdd384-cddd-11df-9c00-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[Tokyogriz]

Grizmayor posts aside, here is my current reasoning for favoring a move.

Quite frankly, the welfare of the BSC and FCS concerns me much more than taking a chance in moving.

!

What O'Day said about FCS, the playoffs and the Big Sky were not accurate. He's taking huge flak nationally for his inaccurate statements. I headr that he spent much of yesterday apologizing. FCS is healthy, the Big Sky has strengthend and stabilized itself recenlty, and the ncaa is not even considering eliminating the playoffs. This is on good authority. The playoffs have made money in some years. A $400,000 loss is nothing, especially compared to the $5 million loss for the women's ncca hoops tourney. O'Day needs to be more careful or he will be out of a job.

I heard he feels very confident in his statements and his views on moving up being the best for UM.

See how that works player?

 

[Tokyogriz]

Bowl qualifications may be adjusted to add losers:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100929/ap_on_sp_co_ne/fbc_bowl_dilemma

So, considering that there won't even be enough teams with winning records, they should let 5 win teams into some bowl systems. Sounds like a pretty high quality operation that demands the utmost excellence from its teams.

Interesting. Makes sense if there is a good deal of parity in a conference.

 

[Silvertip]

Playerrep, how much deference will the Prez give the AD, and the BOR give the Prez in turn? I know it's their final decision, but does it work more like veto power at some level?

Don't know, but I can't imagine that a college president , especially a new one, is going to just defer to the AD and not completely analyze the situation. No, it's not veto power. Do you think the AD commands the respect of the president? Many people on egriz (but not me) have dissed O'Day for years. They've said he was small time and just a pawn of the president. Of course, they will listen to his recommendation, and seek his input.

From a general institutionial decisionmaking point of view, but not based on knowing anything about the dynamics of this situation or knowing the new president, it would seem unlikely that a new president would make such an important decision like this in a relatively short period of time, and decide to change the course of athletics by moving up. There are way too many risks in deciding to move up. The status quo is a much easier decision to make. Does a new president, who has been the provost and very close to the faculty, want his first major decision to ultimately result in multiple football and other athletic coaches, and even the AD, being paid a bunch more money than top members of the faculty--and even of himself in the case of the head coach? Is that the first message he will want to send to his faculty?

Since you admit knowing so little about Royce Engstrom, here's a tidbit you can nibble on from his 9/13/10 meeting with campus members:

"Athletics is an essential part of the University of Montana. It's an essential part of who we are"
Engstrom and his wife Mary "never miss a home football game and rarely miss a basketball game."

University of Montana athletics must also not "lose any of its luster or importance."

Make of it what you will, but we never heard anything like this in 20 years of George.

 

[Silvertip]

I have met in person with Jim maybe four times and have exchanged as many emails. The email in question is no doubt his. His responses to mine have been literate and detailed - as you would expect of an ex-newspaper guy. Furthermore, if you had talked to him as recently as two years ago you would know that at that time he was 100% for the BSC and FCS. But times have changed and reality trumps prejudice and arrogance. So who do you find to be a credible voice on the move up issue - a small town mayor spreading hyperbole like manure or an athletic administration professional?.

 

[AZGrizFan]

None of the Big Sky schools are planning to drop football. NAU was in the worst shape, and they have stabilized.

REally? That's news to the Arizona senate. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[kemajic]

they say we are dominating...dominating the big sky as in beign 1-1??

Dominating as in 12 consecutive conf. titles and 32-2 over the last five years? Or drawing nearly 50% of all attendance in the BSC? Are you suggesting that is not dominating? It's pretty hard to tell from your illiterate posts.

 

[griz4life]

I was surprised to see the Missoulian article confirming the email was Jim's. The email did prompt me to review last year's financials. His numbers are fairly accurate and the spreadsheets for MSU and UM show considerable differances in how the schools fund, as well as funnel money from, athletics. There are certainly things Montana could do to push more revenue toward athletics.

 

[Grizzlies1982]

I was surprised to see the Missoulian article confirming the email was Jim's. The email did prompt me to review last year's financials. His numbers are fairly accurate and the spreadsheets for MSU and UM show considerable differances in how the schools fund, as well as funnel money from, athletics. There are certainly things Montana could do to push more revenue toward athletics.

That is all in the hands of the UM & MSU Presidents. The new guy will make those calls now.
Ultimately he'll decides how future funds are spend at the University. :ugeek:

 

[grizpsych]

This is a very good post.

A "very good post" :? You must admire incoherency.

I could not finish reading the post, my inner voice kept sounding like William Shatner.

 

[grizpsych]

Grizmayor posts aside, here is my current reasoning for favoring a move.

Quite frankly, the welfare of the BSC and FCS concerns me much more than taking a chance in moving.

!

What O'Day said about FCS, the playoffs and the Big Sky were not accurate. He's taking huge flak nationally for his inaccurate statements. I headr that he spent much of yesterday apologizing. FCS is healthy, the Big Sky has strengthend and stabilized itself recenlty, and the ncaa is not even considering eliminating the playoffs. This is on good authority. The playoffs have made money in some years. A $400,000 loss is nothing, especially compared to the $5 million loss for the women's ncca hoops tourney. O'Day needs to be more careful or he will be out of a job.

Did I miss an interview given by O'day? Or are you referring to the email that he wrote.

 

[GtFllsFan]

Grizmayor posts aside, here is my current reasoning for favoring a move.

Quite frankly, the welfare of the BSC and FCS concerns me much more than taking a chance in moving.

!

What O'Day said about FCS, the playoffs and the Big Sky were not accurate. He's taking huge flak nationally for his inaccurate statements. I headr that he spent much of yesterday apologizing. FCS is healthy, the Big Sky has strengthend and stabilized itself recenlty, and the ncaa is not even considering eliminating the playoffs. This is on good authority. The playoffs have made money in some years. A $400,000 loss is nothing, especially compared to the $5 million loss for the women's ncca hoops tourney. O'Day needs to be more careful or he will be out of a job.

It would not surprise me to hear he was apologizing.....for letting the cat out of the bag. No governing agency wants facts or opinions disclosed without their blessing and spin. Jim, you bad boy, how dare you speak outside of the clubhouse.

I would imagine that you could have 10 athletic directors author emails with the same facts and they would all seem slanted to the reader depending on which side of the issue that you are on.

I have never met Jim but I gained a huge amount or respect for him because of that email. He has a very thankless job. This will be one of the most difficult and important decisions made by UM in many years. The ramifications of the decision (either direction) may not be felt for many years depending on the success or the failure of moving up, or, the success or failure of FCS football as we know it.

Good job Mr. O'Day, you may have gotten in some hot water with the powers that be, but at least you brought the discussion to a whole new level that will make it more difficult for agendas to trump prudent decisions.....on either side of the issue.