Egriz and brain injuries...

[CDAGRIZ]

Football teaches work ethic, discipline, toughness, and team work better than any other sport.

Personally I would put it second to wrestling but I do agree those are positives of football.

I would put it second to wrestling as well. Good point.

 

[PlayerRep]

When my son get's old enough to play, I will have absolutely no problem letting him play. Football teaches work ethic, discipline, toughness, and team work better than any other sport. It's a great game and I wouldn't be the same person without it. If you teach your kids how to play the game right, get them the right gear, and make sure any concussion is treated properly, it is very unlikely they'll have any long term effects even if they happen to get a concussion. Of course shit happens, but it could happen in any sport. The benefits of learning and playing football far outweigh the potential hazards. Just play the game right.

This has generally been my view, but in more recent years, my wife has grown to have more concerns about football injuries in general (as do I). She's not a wimp on football, as her dad was a high school football/basketball coach and college basketball coach, all 4 of her brothers played football, and she loves football and basketball. However, when our last son switched from football to soccer after his frosh year, she was relieved. He had had surgery for an acl avulsion at the end of his frosh football. He got a concussion in soccer earlier this year.

 

[PlayerRep]

As the parent of an 8 year old boy it makes it hard to put him in football in 2 years when they move to pads and helmets because of what we are learning about head injuries and long term effects. He has played every sport he could since the age of 4 (wrestling, flag football, baseball, etc...) and I consider him to be one of the best athletes in each sport he participates in. I know he will want to play tackle football in 5th grade and I know I would love to watch him...but...as a parent I feel like I need to protect his still developing brain from potential injury.

You are a wise and caring parent.

I can't understand organized youth football. Just can't. The pads, the helmets, the coaches, the plays, the parents, etc. When I was 10 years old, we played sandlot tackle football, no helmets, no pads, no coaches, no parents, just us kids. Plays were drawn in the dirt. Many a time I came home bloody & dirty, but had fun.

My view is that organized sports for kids start far too early, sports are now too intensive and too time consuming too early, and little kids should do only touch/flag football. Tackle football starts too early. It's not necessary to start so early. My thought is that it has become too much about the parents, and not about the kids and what's best for them. But when tackle football and other sports start early, the kids often want to participate and parents feel that their kids will get left behind if they don't join early.

 

[PlayerRep]

I agree with Mike Ditkas statement. The only way to take head injuries (most of them) out of football is to take the helmets off.

This is what I've been thinking for some time. Why don't we do away with the helmets and pads? Rugby players don't have them. I can see helmets & pads for hockey players, mainly because of the sticks. Same w/ lacrosse.

You aren't going to spear someone w/ your head if it's your head, not a helmet, doing the hitting. All these helmets, pads, etc., do is make one more careless of what happens to his body & that of others, by believing it's safe to go full tilt. And the more protective the gear becomes, the more daring the motivation. It's ironic that protective gear increases disregard for either one's safety or that of others. You aren't going to smash into someone if your body is just as likely to get injured as the other guy.

Consider: football players in full suit (armor?) don't look like human beings. They look like robots. The humanity is taken out of the sport. It's just a bunch of helmets and pads smacking into each other. Nobody is concerned about the other player until he's injured and the helmet is taken off and we see a suffering human being.

I fear football is an endangered sport because of this issue, and the only way to preserve it is to eliminate the helmets and pads. Could it be, "Real men don't need helmets and pads?"

I would like to see data on where football injuries and football head injuries come from. What types of plays? How many head injuries are from hard/direct contact, and how many come from the every day and week and year of less hard contact.

In my many decades of playing contact sports, I had a few helmet to helmet bell-ringers, but I think that more of my bell-ringers, or at lest half in football, came from tackling a runners very powerful legs in football, or getting swung to the ground and hitting my head (rugby).

One problem in changing the rules/equipment in football, is that people like to see the fierce/hard hits. I think this adds to the popularity of the game, from a fan viewpoint. That is not to say that rules/equipment can't or shouldn't be changed.

In football, to the extent injuries come from hard contact, and at least many do, the velocity and fierceness of the contact comes from the protection of helmet, facemask and padding. Without those things, people would not tackle so hard and so recklessly. The helmet/facemask are a big part of it, but I think the shoulder pads especially are also a big part of it.

Eliminating or changing the helmet, but leaving the other passing, would probably create some issues, i.e. heads hitting shoulder pads (even if tackling was less fierce).

Not having helmets or padding definitely changes the tackling in rugby, but really it was the adding of helmets/padding in football that changed football tackling.

As I have said before, there are elements of rugby tackling rules that could be instituted to protect against the high hits in football. Rules are already being changed to eliminate the high hitting (receiver on the middle being hit high by safety, etc.), no leading with head, no contact to the head in some situations.

In rugby, all tackles must be below the shoulder of the runner, even if the runner ducks. To me, this rule could be more easily enforced, because it would be a clearer line and defenders would have to tackle lower. Also, tacklers must wrap up the runner. Folding ones arms, pushing someone out of bounds, etc. is not allowed. Requiring the tackler to open up his body/chest area, in order to wrap up, has a large impact on how tackling is done.

Interesting subjects. I wonder if football will be required to change rules and get less violent, in order to survive. Had never thought of that. The awareness level regarding concussions has been the biggest improvement in my view. I fully understand and believe that concussions, even minor ones, need to be identified and dealt with. I'm not so sure that a kid needs to be out of competition for at least a week after all of the symptoms (or supposed symptoms) of a minor concussion are gone.

 

[GrizMusician]

I agree with Mike Ditkas statement. The only way to take head injuries (most of them) out of football is to take the helmets off.

This is what I've been thinking for some time. Why don't we do away with the helmets and pads? Rugby players don't have them. I can see helmets & pads for hockey players, mainly because of the sticks. Same w/ lacrosse.

You aren't going to spear someone w/ your head if it's your head, not a helmet, doing the hitting. All these helmets, pads, etc., do is make one more careless of what happens to his body & that of others, by believing it's safe to go full tilt. And the more protective the gear becomes, the more daring the motivation. It's ironic that protective gear increases disregard for either one's safety or that of others. You aren't going to smash into someone if your body is just as likely to get injured as the other guy.

Consider: football players in full suit (armor?) don't look like human beings. They look like robots. The humanity is taken out of the sport. It's just a bunch of helmets and pads smacking into each other. Nobody is concerned about the other player until he's injured and the helmet is taken off and we see a suffering human being.

I fear football is an endangered sport because of this issue, and the only way to preserve it is to eliminate the helmets and pads. Could it be, "Real men don't need helmets and pads?"

I would like to see data on where football injuries and football head injuries come from. What types of plays? How many head injuries are from hard/direct contact, and how many come from the every day and week and year of less hard contact.

In my many decades of playing contact sports, I had a few helmet to helmet bell-ringers, but I think that more of my bell-ringers, or at lest half in football, came from tackling a runners very powerful legs in football, or getting swung to the ground and hitting my head (rugby).

One problem in changing the rules/equipment in football, is that people like to see the fierce/hard hits. I think this adds to the popularity of the game, from a fan viewpoint. That is not to say that rules/equipment can't or shouldn't be changed.

In football, to the extent injuries come from hard contact, and at least many do, the velocity and fierceness of the contact comes from the protection of helmet, facemask and padding. Without those things, people would not tackle so hard and so recklessly. The helmet/facemask are a big part of it, but I think the shoulder pads especially are also a big part of it.

Eliminating or changing the helmet, but leaving the other passing, would probably create some issues, i.e. heads hitting shoulder pads (even if tackling was less fierce).

Not having helmets or padding definitely changes the tackling in rugby, but really it was the adding of helmets/padding in football that changed football tackling.

As I have said before, there are elements of rugby tackling rules that could be instituted to protect against the high hits in football. Rules are already being changed to eliminate the high hitting (receiver on the middle being hit high by safety, etc.), no leading with head, no contact to the head in some situations.

In rugby, all tackles must be below the shoulder of the runner, even if the runner ducks. To me, this rule could be more easily enforced, because it would be a clearer line and defenders would have to tackle lower. Also, tacklers must wrap up the runner. Folding ones arms, pushing someone out of bounds, etc. is not allowed. Requiring the tackler to open up his body/chest area, in order to wrap up, has a large impact on how tackling is done.

Interesting subjects. I wonder if football will be required to change rules and get less violent, in order to survive. Had never thought of that. The awareness level regarding concussions has been the biggest improvement in my view. I fully understand and believe that concussions, even minor ones, need to be identified and dealt with. I'm not so sure that a kid needs to be out of competition for at least a week after all of the symptoms (or supposed symptoms) of a minor concussion are gone.

Good post. I agree! :clap:

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[grizpack]

As the parent of an 8 year old boy it makes it hard to put him in football in 2 years when they move to pads and helmets because of what we are learning about head injuries and long term effects. He has played every sport he could since the age of 4 (wrestling, flag football, baseball, etc...) and I consider him to be one of the best athletes in each sport he participates in. I know he will want to play tackle football in 5th grade and I know I would love to watch him...but...as a parent I feel like I need to protect his still developing brain from potential injury.

You are a wise and caring parent.

I can't understand organized youth football. Just can't. The pads, the helmets, the coaches, the plays, the parents, etc. When I was 10 years old, we played sandlot tackle football, no helmets, no pads, no coaches, no parents, just us kids. Plays were drawn in the dirt. Many a time I came home bloody & dirty, but had fun.

My view is that organized sports for kids start far too early, sports are now too intensive and too time consuming too early, and little kids should do only touch/flag football. Tackle football starts too early. It's not necessary to start so early. My thought is that it has become too much about the parents, and not about the kids and what's best for them. But when tackle football and other sports start early, the kids often want to participate and parents feel that their kids will get left behind if they don't join early.

About organized sports starting too early, a few years ago, I was talking to a LONG TIME coach in the area. We were talking about this subject, specifically regarding basketball. It was his opinion that, if a kid hasn't played 200 competitive basketball games by the time he or she gets to high school, that kid has very little chance of being in the mix for the high school teams at a bigger school.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

Again, I don't buy the Rugby/Football comparison argument. They are completely different sports. Rugby is continuous movement. Football is a series of highly explosive plays. It's what makes the game exciting. Could you imagine being a running back running through the line without anything protecting your face? I know they used to do it, but I bet you that those guys had plenty of concussions and some real messed up faces too.

 

[zengriz]

...in rugby you put vasiline on your earz...
...just to keep them from being torn off...
...the first thing I learned and why I quit...

... ...

 

[PlayerRep]

Again, I don't buy the Rugby/Football comparison argument. They are completely different sports. Rugby is continuous movement. Football is a series of highly explosive plays. It's what makes the game exciting. Could you imagine being a running back running through the line without anything protecting your face? I know they used to do it, but I bet you that those guys had plenty of concussions and some real messed up faces too.

Only partially true. Rugby has very hard hitting at times. But again, all tackles have to be below the shoulders. Rugby generally doesn't have hard gang tackling, except near the goal line. In rugby, there are more opportunities for tackles, than in football, especially for the backs and the back row players. In rugby, the players go both ways. There is little substitution.

I think one of the reasons that football started to go to helmets and pads, was due to the number of deaths from football. Now there are fewer deaths, but many more injuries. Not necessarily linked to the equipment, I don't think.

I assume that you probably haven't played rugby, or not much.

 

[BakunLT]

Well horseradish and heavens to Betsy, what a stunning revelation! Glad to finally know the awful hidden truth that cigarette smoking is harmful to your health and that physical contact sports actually have a risk of injury to the mind and body. I always knew those awful owners of tobacco companies and sports teams were keeping something from us. :roll:

Wait..... both of those things are bad for you?

I smack my ciggs on my forehead to pack them, so how messed up am i going to be?

 

[garizzalies]

Football teaches work ethic, discipline, toughness, and team work better than any other sport.

Personally I would put it second to wrestling but I do agree those are positives of football.

I would put it second to wrestling as well. Good point.

How does wrestling teach "team work"?
Also, i think you guys left out the most important thing FB (and other team sports in general) teaches kids: ADVERSITY. Kids that get everything handed to them do not know how to react when things do not go their way or when someone else lets them down.

 

[aCatsFan]

How does wrestling teach "team work"?
Also, i think you guys left out the most important thing FB (and other team sports in general) teaches kids: ADVERSITY. Kids that get everything handed to them do not know how to react when things do not go their way or when someone else lets them down.

You can't be a great wrestler by yourself...better have good teammates who work hard and push you. Wrestling gives kids the best of both worlds. Being a team sport and being an individual sport. When a kid steps out onto the mat to go to war with a kid they have never met before, I promise they learn more about themselves then most sports will ever teach them. Wrestlers know nothing is handed to them...they earn everything...or nothing.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

Football teaches work ethic, discipline, toughness, and team work better than any other sport.

Personally I would put it second to wrestling but I do agree those are positives of football.

I would put it second to wrestling as well. Good point.

How does wrestling teach "team work"?
Also, i think you guys left out the most important thing FB (and other team sports in general) teaches kids: ADVERSITY. Kids that get everything handed to them do not know how to react when things do not go their way or when someone else lets them down.

Again, I don't buy the Rugby/Football comparison argument. They are completely different sports. Rugby is continuous movement. Football is a series of highly explosive plays. It's what makes the game exciting. Could you imagine being a running back running through the line without anything protecting your face? I know they used to do it, but I bet you that those guys had plenty of concussions and some real messed up faces too.

Only partially true. Rugby has very hard hitting at times. But again, all tackles have to be below the shoulders. Rugby generally doesn't have hard gang tackling, except near the goal line. In rugby, there are more opportunities for tackles, than in football, especially for the backs and the back row players. In rugby, the players go both ways. There is little substitution.

I think one of the reasons that football started to go to helmets and pads, was due to the number of deaths from football. Now there are fewer deaths, but many more injuries. Not necessarily linked to the equipment, I don't think.

I assume that you probably haven't played rugby, or not much.

I think that you're both correct. I played some rugby in college and my ole man played Rugby after his AFL/ NFL career flamed out. He also had a chance to make the USA Eagles but didn't make the final cut. So I know a little about the game. PR, correct me if I am wrong, but Rugby is mainly about "possession" so when you tackle an opposing player, the ball has to be released. Your goal isn't to tackle to stop yardage gain necessarily. You don't need the "crushing" tackles as much. Plus,with the different rules, like you mentioned, this leads to a slightly different tackling technique IMO. Also, with out the pads, a rugby player's career would be very short if he had to tackle like they do in American Football. You still can get the big hits but the big hits are just fewer and farther between. But make no mistake, rugby is a very demanding sport in terms of toughness and fitness. Plus there are no substitutions unless for an injury. And then you only get one or two I believe. After that, you play short.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

Again, I don't buy the Rugby/Football comparison argument. They are completely different sports. Rugby is continuous movement. Football is a series of highly explosive plays. It's what makes the game exciting. Could you imagine being a running back running through the line without anything protecting your face? I know they used to do it, but I bet you that those guys had plenty of concussions and some real messed up faces too.

Only partially true. Rugby has very hard hitting at times. But again, all tackles have to be below the shoulders. Rugby generally doesn't have hard gang tackling, except near the goal line. In rugby, there are more opportunities for tackles, than in football, especially for the backs and the back row players. In rugby, the players go both ways. There is little substitution.

I think one of the reasons that football started to go to helmets and pads, was due to the number of deaths from football. Now there are fewer deaths, but many more injuries. Not necessarily linked to the equipment, I don't think.

I assume that you probably haven't played rugby, or not much.

I've never played rugby. I have watched the sport. Not trying to imply that the game isn't physical, but they still are very different sports.

There have been arguments on here that if football eliminated protective equipment to where they have the same protection that rugby players have, that it will be a safer game. I simply do not agree with that, unless you change the rules of the game completely to where it wasn't football anymore. I can't imagine taking a block from a full back or lineman and making a tackle on a running back (below the waist or not) without head gear and pads and feeling safer. They implemented that equipment for good reason and it makes the game safer.

 

[Buttegrizzle]

My wife said our son won't play high school football unless he is a kicker. As a 6 ft 190 pound 8th grader, he does kick and punt but happens to play TE and OLB too. Last year QB DE and FB too. Pretty tough to tell him not to play anything but kicker now... I did make him watch all the concussion documentaries though so he will understand our concerns and hopefully never hesitate to take himself out if he gets doinked.

 

[Grizzoola]

My wife said our son won't play high school football unless he is a kicker. As a 6 ft 190 pound 8th grader, he does kick and punt but happens to play TE and OLB too. Last year QB DE and FB too. Pretty tough to tell him not to play anything but kicker now... I did make him watch all the concussion documentaries though so he will understand our concerns and hopefully never hesitate to take himself out if he gets doinked.

If your son enjoys playing football, at whatever position pleases him, let him do it. He'll decide, soon enough, what position he wants or to even continue playing football. It's a mistake to force your son into doing your or your wife's wishes.

There is nothing to guarantee your son will have brain damage from playing football, any more than from some other cause. Your son is not in the NFL. Some perspective, here. Mothers are protective of their children, but a guy has to be a guy. Know what I mean?

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Oh don't worry! He will play any position the coaches want to try him at. He loves the game. Momma realizes that too, just frets. Tackling technique is a huge factor too- hopefully high school coaches will work on that.