Egriz and brain injuries...

[PlayerRep]

PR - what would be your best estimate on the number of actual concussions (based on today's classifications) you have had in your life... and the severity?

Can't remember. Haha. Probably up to a half dozen or in high school football (games/practices). None in college. Two in rugby after college. Not major ones. Never lost consciousness. Never vomited. Never had memory loss. Never went to a doctor. Was stunned in most of them. Continued to play or came back into the game in all of them. Never sat out a game or practice, to my recollection. This was fairly typical with most of the kids I played high school and college football with. Even with my view being more skeptical of the protocols and problem, I probably should not have continued or come back in, in any of these situations, and should have stayed out of some practices--is my view now.

 

[catdaddy7]

There was talk sometime ago of a new helmet design for football which actually started out as an
auto racing helmet. Wonder what's up with that. Anybody else know what I'm talking
about?

 

[zengriz]

...the helmets are designed...
...protect the brain from fracture...
...no helmet can stop the concussion...

... ...

 

[grizpack]

There was talk sometime ago of a new helmet design for football which actually started out as an
auto racing helmet. Wonder what's up with that. Anybody else know what I'm talking
about?

Yes. I read about it too. They were trying to get the weight down as I recall. The prototype was pretty heavy, and was bigger than a regular football helmet.

One other thing that has changed a lot is the method of tackling. (Sportscenter Effect) It went from hitting low to take their legs out, to driving and wrapping up, to going for the kill shot with virtually no effort to wrap up in the last 40 years. This is a combination of technique (or lack of), speed and way better equipment. The better equipment has led to using the head as a weapon.

I think that has made as big of a difference as anything for QB's, RB's, DB's, LB's and WR's. I assume that didn't affect the linemen as much. I know that is what the "Heads Up" program is about.

 

[HighLineGRIZ]

A FB teammate that I had in college had several concussions. He is only in his early 30s and already has severe bouts with migraines. He attributes it to football. He doesn't blame it on anybody but himself. He hid many of those concussions and kept playing. Our team was educated on the seriousness of concussions and weren't allowed to play if we had one until cleared by a doctor, but many of us hid them. I spent too much time on the bench to really worry about it as much...haha.

Point is, is that football is a violent and competitive game that people choose to play knowing the potential health consequences. All one can do is educate the players about the long-term effects, implement rules that try to prevent the injury (eg: helmet to helmet), and monitor the players.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

However, I don't understand why there don't appear to be alot more, or even any, lingering impacts of concussions/head injuries from anyone among my family, friends and anyone I ever played with or knew.

Because you and your friends and family didn't play long enough. Plus you didn't play in the NFL where you get hit harder and a lot more often. It's a cumulative effect, in most cases, that cause the most severe problems.

It is a cumulative effect, but what the documentary also talked about was researchers found CTE in an 18 year old kid who played football. They also emphasized that younger brains are lighter and more susceptible. So repeated impacts at youth and high school levels can cause the disease.

As for why Player Rep and his friends don't show signs of having CTE, such as memory loss, well that doesn't mean it is not there and it won't show up later in life. The researchers had to physically look at brains of players to find evidence of CTE, and the Boston group has looked at 46 ex-NFLer brains 45 of which had the disease. Remember Junior Seau, he had it and it went undiagnosed until he spiraled and killed himself, only found CTE after he was dead.

So there are many reasons Player Rep hasn't seen a lot of his friends develop dementia or other symptoms, it doesn't mean no one he knows has the disease. But the researchers in the documentary emphasized that the exact mechanisms that determine who develops CTE, and when it's starts developing are still being investigated. What is known is that if you play football at any level you are at a significantly higher risk of having CTE - how high is still unknown, but 45 out of 46 ex-NFLers is a lot. One researcher interviewed said she thought that every single player had some stage of this.

So yea my kids will be kickers.

Did anyone who followed the link click on the link just below the NFL story? That was the link that discussed
The 21 year old Penn linebacker that committed suicide. According to the doctor, the player had never been diagnosed with a concussion but his brain showed that he had a bad case of CTE even at his young age. Some of the brain injury research is showing that it's not just the "big" hits but it's the
every play "engagement" of players like linemen and LB that may be a problem. Doctors call
these "sub-concussive" hits. These types if hits over and over are apparently just as bad.

 

[Griz!ron]

I reluctantly opened this thread. Certainly not I was expecting by the title. I was thinking you came up with something cleaver about EGRIZ causing brain injuries, or brain injuries cause people to be on egriz.

I was thinking the exact same thing!!!

I did watch the show last night. Made me think that my son, who will be 6-6 plus in 14 years, will not play football. If he is not any good at it he'll like get hurt, if he is really good at football he'll definitely get hurt. That the choice my mother made for me, not to play football, and i'm still pretty healthy. I played water polo instead, just as tough of a sport, but with fewer serious injuries.

 

[bigforkgriz]

I am happy that concussions/head injuries have been getting this attention, more research is being done, and awareness has been significantly heightened. I have no doubt that there are significant brain injuries problems in the NFL, and this subject was overlooked or swept under the rug in the NFL for decades. I am glad that kids sports, high school and college sports have development more awareness and protocols.

However, I don't understand why there don't appear to be alot more, or even any, lingering impacts of concussions/head injuries from anyone among my family, friends and anyone I ever played with or knew. Almost everyone I played with in high school and college, as well as my siblings and cousins, were stunned, dinged, and concussed--multiple times--and even knocked out on occasion, but none of them have or appear to have lingering affects, to my knowledge.

And personally, while I like the awareness and the protocols that keep kids from going back into games after they get dinged, my view is that the protocols that have developed have gone too far. With even minor issues, for which there are very few initial symptoms (which may subside in a day or so), it's very difficult to get back into competition for about 10 days.

Doctors and others often advise that kids not watch tv or use their cell phones, which, of course, they ignore. They may be advised not to go to school, which can be a negative for kids who are not top students or who are struggling and cause them to get behind. For a more serious concussion, maybe. But for fairly minor dings/stuns? I wonder.

Due to the protocols and the baseline testing, kids have learned to goof up some part of the baseline test, so it's not set overly high (and hard to recreate after a minor (or I suppose major) head issue).

Because you and your friends and family didn't play long enough. Plus you didn't play in the NFL where you get hit harder and a lot more often. It's a cumulative effect, in most cases, that cause the most severe problems.

Perhaps, but a dozen or two of my family and wife's familyh and hundreds of my friends played contact sports in college (and a dozen or so friends played in the NFL). This includes football, rugby, lacrosse, basketball, soccer, etc. And this is my point. The NFL clearly has a problem. It should be addressed. Everyone should be more careful at all levels. But I question whether the new protocols that I'm familar have gone too far.

Pr, I think you really need to watch the Frontline episode. It may change your opinion.

 

[zengriz]

...the brain floatz in a liquid...
...there will never be football...
...w/o head injuries/consussions...

... ...

 

[Hammer]

I agree with Mike Ditkas statement. The only way to take head injuries (most of them) out of football is to take the helmets off.

 

[hm.grwn.grizfan]

I reluctantly opened this thread. Certainly not I was expecting by the title. I was thinking you came up with something cleaver about EGRIZ causing brain injuries, or brain injuries cause people to be on egriz.

Or a select few of those who post to Egriz have obviously been the victim of one or more brain injuries.

 

[GrizMusician]

...the helmets are designed...
...protect the brain from fracture...
...no helmet can stop the concussion...

... ...

...the brain floatz in a liquid...
...there will never be football...
...w/o head injuries/consussions...

... ...

You're right on the money Zen!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[PlayerRep]

not to mention PR you played a long time ago. like 40 years ago right? and this isn't directed as some sort of insult. but look at the evolution of the game in this time frame. guys are just monsters now. and obviously there are exceptions to every rule and i'm sure you played with some very big, very strong, very fast guys. but the simple truth is the game today is nothing like it was in the 60's. and chances are good the game in 30 years is not going to be like it is today. I think we're going to see more and more changes of the rules and more and more injuries. and i'm still of the belief that it is only a matter of time before a massive collision kills a guy on the field.

I agree with you, at the NFL level. At the college level, to a much lesser degree. At the high school level, not so much. But that's just football. What about all the other sports? I played rugby into my 50's. I'm still around alot of rugby. The protocols now impact all contact sports.

A supplement to my post. Still not disagreeing but consider: headgear is better now; tackling and other rules have changed (in high school, we tackled with our helmet); there's less full contact in practice, at both nfl, college and even high school levels; rule changes allow fewer two a day preseason practices; and there has come to be more concussion awareness.

 

[grizbymarriage]

Better concussion awareness is critical! Along with better helmet design which I am sure will come with time.

We had a grandson who played high school football in Missoula - defense. He kept getting the skin on his nose cut; finally, after two years of nose damage, he figured out his helmet was defective and got a new helmet which stopped the carnage. He also played football in college. We are still worried that he will end up with problems . . . you know the old saying "If we can put a man on the moon. . . "? Well, we should be able to come up with a lightweight, more protective helmet.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Better concussion awareness is critical! Along with better helmet design which I am sure will come with time.

We had a grandson who played high school football in Missoula - defense. He kept getting the skin on his nose cut; finally, after two years of nose damage, he figured out his helmet was defective and got a new helmet which stopped the carnage. He also played football in college. We are still worried that he will end up with problems . . . you know the old saying "If we can put a man on the moon. . . "? Well, we should be able to come up with a lightweight, more protective helmet.

That sucks about your grandson's nose. I know we had some deficient face masks in my limited football days. I'm guessing, here, in pictures. You tell me where I've run afoul:

 

[grizbymarriage]

Better concussion awareness is critical! Along with better helmet design which I am sure will come with time.

We had a grandson who played high school football in Missoula - defense. He kept getting the skin on his nose cut; finally, after two years of nose damage, he figured out his helmet was defective and got a new helmet which stopped the carnage. He also played football in college. We are still worried that he will end up with problems . . . you know the old saying "If we can put a man on the moon. . . "? Well, we should be able to come up with a lightweight, more protective helmet.

I'm guessing here, in pictures. You tell me where I've run afoul:

Uh . . . no. He graduated from high school in Missoula in 2000. Graduated from a college in Montana (on football scholarship) in 2005.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Better concussion awareness is critical! Along with better helmet design which I am sure will come with time.

We had a grandson who played high school football in Missoula - defense. He kept getting the skin on his nose cut; finally, after two years of nose damage, he figured out his helmet was defective and got a new helmet which stopped the carnage. He also played football in college. We are still worried that he will end up with problems . . . you know the old saying "If we can put a man on the moon. . . "? Well, we should be able to come up with a lightweight, more protective helmet.

I'm guessing here, in pictures. You tell me where I've run afoul:

Uh . . . no. He graduated from high school in Missoula in 2000. Graduated from a college in Montana (on football scholarship) in 2005.

Don't know if you saw my edit. It sucks when guys get the football nose (my family is more plagued by the cauliflower ear). I apologize for trying to be funny, but I think helmet technology is as good as it's going to get. Tackling technique is what's lacking, IMO.

 

[grizbymarriage]

Better concussion awareness is critical! Along with better helmet design which I am sure will come with time.

We had a grandson who played high school football in Missoula - defense. He kept getting the skin on his nose cut; finally, after two years of nose damage, he figured out his helmet was defective and got a new helmet which stopped the carnage. He also played football in college. We are still worried that he will end up with problems . . . you know the old saying "If we can put a man on the moon. . . "? Well, we should be able to come up with a lightweight, more protective helmet.

I'm guessing here, in pictures. You tell me where I've run afoul:

Uh . . . no. He graduated from high school in Missoula in 2000. Graduated from a college in Montana (on football scholarship) in 2005.

Don't know if you saw my edit. It sucks when guys get the football nose (my family is more plagued by the cauliflower ear). I apologize for trying to be funny, but I think helmet technology is as good as it's going to get. Tackling technique is what's lacking, IMO.

Thanks, the edit helps. I don't believe helmet technology is as good as it's going to get -- tackling technique will help, but humans are fallible which means there will always be guys tackling who "forget" the proper form. A lightweight helmet which better prevents concussions means big bucks for the developer - if there is one thing this country is good at, it's responding to big bucks. There will be a better helmet.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I'm guessing here, in pictures. You tell me where I've run afoul:

Uh . . . no. He graduated from high school in Missoula in 2000. Graduated from a college in Montana (on football scholarship) in 2005.

Don't know if you saw my edit. It sucks when guys get the football nose (my family is more plagued by the cauliflower ear). I apologize for trying to be funny, but I think helmet technology is as good as it's going to get. Tackling technique is what's lacking, IMO.

Thanks, the edit helps. I don't believe helmet technology is as good as it's going to get -- tackling technique will help, but humans are fallible which means there will always be guys tackling who "forget" the proper form. A lightweight helmet which better prevents concussions means big bucks for the developer - if there is one thing this country is good at, it's responding to big bucks. There will be a better helmet.

I certainly hope you are right.

 

[PlayerRep]

The Missoula high school head injury protocol is in this link. Notice how long it is. The return to competition portion is on pp. 8 and 9. Note the 8 days/steps to return.

http://www.mcpsmt.org/cms/lib03/MT01001940/Centricity/Domain/352/Concussion%20Management%20Procedures.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;