Draining the lifeblood of the department (Move-up thread)

[AZGrizFan]

Beating the heck of the Cats, and having 2 playoff games, was alot of fun for me. Too bad you are unable to enjoy that.

You know, for most fans who desire to move up, it's not an "either/or" situation. I enjoy the playoffs. I would also enjoy a schedule playing teams in the MWC every weekend.

It ain't rocket science.

Would you also enjoy losing, not playing the Bobcats (or at least playing them less), never going to the playoffs, either not have a post-season game or having one in a place like Boise, having fewer home games, playing weekday games, having higher ticket prices, experiencing declining attendance, having far fewer MT kids on the roster, etc.?

PR, most of these myths have been beaten like a rented mule on this board, but it's to no avail, as the flat earthers have their fingers in their ears shouting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!!! so they don't have to listen.

1) We could still play the Bobcats every year. 98% of Mid-level FBS teams play down once a year.
2) There WILL be a playoff system in the Little 5 in the next 5-7 years.
3) I'd rather have a post-season game in Boise than in Iowa, North Dakota, Ohio, Tennessee, etc., etc. or almost anywhere FCS teams reside. The vast majority of REAL talent moved up.
4) In a 12-game season we'd still have six home games. We're not Idaho.
5) Weekday games wouldn't be the end of the world. In12 games last season, Boise State played 1 Thursday night game and 2 Friday night games. NINE Saturday games.
6) Higher ticket prices? You can't have higher costs without higher ticket prices. People want something for nothing? Ya'll a bunch of democrats?
7) We're ALREADY experiencing declining attendance. Think that might have something to do with the quality of opponent we're bringing in? Nah.....couldn't be.
8) I really couldn't care less WHERE the players come from, but any Montana kids that have made an impact (or that we expect to) would have been good enough to start/play for most of the MWC teams. Biermann, Carps, Tripp, Coyle, Wags, Crittenden, Kidder, Peevey, Schye, etc. And maybe we KEEP guys in-state like Sims, Miller, Roderick, etc., and land guys like Brekke, Osweiler, etc. Besides, what good does it do to load the roster with Montana kids who never (except for washup time) see the field--even at THIS level? I looked up the roster for the 1995 championship year. 22 kids from Montana. That's an average of less than 6/year--but I don't hear people bitching that we didn't have enough Montana kids that year??

 

[George Ferguson]

Montana Attendance Average the last three seasons

2012 - 25, 236
2013 - 25, 380
2014 - 23, 820 (25, 200 in six regular season home games)

100 people give or take when you take out the San Diego playoff game sure doesn't seem like a decline in attendance to me.

However, AZ, before you label me a flat earther, as I've said before, I'm fully prepared that a move to SOMEWHERE is coming. I just am about 99.9 percent it won't be the MWC

 

[PlayerRep]

Beating the heck of the Cats, and having 2 playoff games, was alot of fun for me. Too bad you are unable to enjoy that.

You know, for most fans who desire to move up, it's not an "either/or" situation. I enjoy the playoffs. I would also enjoy a schedule playing teams in the MWC every weekend.

It ain't rocket science.

Would you also enjoy losing, not playing the Bobcats (or at least playing them less), never going to the playoffs, either not have a post-season game or having one in a place like Boise, having fewer home games, playing weekday games, having higher ticket prices, experiencing declining attendance, having far fewer MT kids on the roster, etc.?

PR, most of these myths have been beaten like a rented mule on this board, but it's to no avail, as the flat earthers have their fingers in their ears shouting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!!! so they don't have to listen.

1) We could still play the Bobcats every year. 98% of Mid-level FBS teams play down once a year.
2) There WILL be a playoff system in the Little 5 in the next 5-7 years.
3) I'd rather have a post-season game in Boise than in Iowa, North Dakota, Ohio, Tennessee, etc., etc. or almost anywhere FCS teams reside. The vast majority of REAL talent moved up.
4) In a 12-game season we'd still have six home games. We're not Idaho.
5) Weekday games wouldn't be the end of the world. In12 games last season, Boise State played 1 Thursday night game and 2 Friday night games. NINE Saturday games.
6) Higher ticket prices? You can't have higher costs without higher ticket prices. People want something for nothing? Ya'll a bunch of democrats?
7) We're ALREADY experiencing declining attendance. Think that might have something to do with the quality of opponent we're bringing in? Nah.....couldn't be.
8) I really couldn't care less WHERE the players come from, but any Montana kids that have made an impact (or that we expect to) would have been good enough to start/play for most of the MWC teams. Biermann, Carps, Tripp, Coyle, Wags, Crittenden, Kidder, Peevey, Schye, etc. And maybe we KEEP guys in-state like Sims, Miller, Roderick, etc., and land guys like Brekke, Osweiler, etc. Besides, what good does it do to load the roster with Montana kids who never (except for washup time) see the field--even at THIS level? I looked up the roster for the 1995 championship year. 22 kids from Montana. That's an average of less than 6/year--but I don't hear people bitching that we didn't have enough Montana kids that year??

Okay, Windmill Chaser, here' my response.

1. FBS teams don't play the same FCS team every year. Feel free to cite any that do that. FBS teams almost never play in the FCS stadiums. The Cats sure wouldn't play in Missoula every year.

2. Please site specific evidence that there will be another FBS playoff system in 5-7 years. Also, site evidence as to how many teams would be in it. Even if there is another playoff system, UM probably rarely, if ever, qualify.

3. I would rather be in the playoffs, anywhere and especially UM stadium, and have a chance at the national championship. Of course, you rarely attend games, so you don't get the fun of UM home games very often.

4. In a 12-game schedule, UM would sometimes have only 5 games, especially if UM was playing bigger money games.

5. Weekday games would be very difficult for UM fans, because many drive for so far out of town. Most Boise St. fans live in Boise and close to Boise. Weekday games would be a huge problem for UM and UM attendance.

6. At least, you agree there would be higher ticket prices.

7. Nope, UM is not experiencing lower attendance. See HavGriz's posts. Do some research before you make incorrect assertions. Thought you were better than that.

8. You may not care where players come from, but many Griz fans do. Also, many Griz fans from out of the Missoula area would not attend games or follow the Griz as much, if there weren't players from their home areas, in my view.

Serve me up some more cream puffs. I like hitting your BS out of the ballpark.

 

[grizpack]

I don't think there is ANY way that the BOR lets UM go anywhere without MSU.

 

[AZGrizFan]

You know, for most fans who desire to move up, it's not an "either/or" situation. I enjoy the playoffs. I would also enjoy a schedule playing teams in the MWC every weekend.

It ain't rocket science.

Would you also enjoy losing, not playing the Bobcats (or at least playing them less), never going to the playoffs, either not have a post-season game or having one in a place like Boise, having fewer home games, playing weekday games, having higher ticket prices, experiencing declining attendance, having far fewer MT kids on the roster, etc.?

PR, most of these myths have been beaten like a rented mule on this board, but it's to no avail, as the flat earthers have their fingers in their ears shouting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!!! so they don't have to listen.

1) We could still play the Bobcats every year. 98% of Mid-level FBS teams play down once a year.
2) There WILL be a playoff system in the Little 5 in the next 5-7 years.
3) I'd rather have a post-season game in Boise than in Iowa, North Dakota, Ohio, Tennessee, etc., etc. or almost anywhere FCS teams reside. The vast majority of REAL talent moved up.
4) In a 12-game season we'd still have six home games. We're not Idaho.
5) Weekday games wouldn't be the end of the world. In12 games last season, Boise State played 1 Thursday night game and 2 Friday night games. NINE Saturday games.
6) Higher ticket prices? You can't have higher costs without higher ticket prices. People want something for nothing? Ya'll a bunch of democrats?
7) We're ALREADY experiencing declining attendance. Think that might have something to do with the quality of opponent we're bringing in? Nah.....couldn't be.
8) I really couldn't care less WHERE the players come from, but any Montana kids that have made an impact (or that we expect to) would have been good enough to start/play for most of the MWC teams. Biermann, Carps, Tripp, Coyle, Wags, Crittenden, Kidder, Peevey, Schye, etc. And maybe we KEEP guys in-state like Sims, Miller, Roderick, etc., and land guys like Brekke, Osweiler, etc. Besides, what good does it do to load the roster with Montana kids who never (except for washup time) see the field--even at THIS level? I looked up the roster for the 1995 championship year. 22 kids from Montana. That's an average of less than 6/year--but I don't hear people bitching that we didn't have enough Montana kids that year??

Okay, Windmill Chaser, here' my response.

1. FBS teams don't play the same FCS team every year. Feel free to cite any that do that. FBS teams almost never play in the FCS stadiums. The Cats sure wouldn't play in Missoula every year.

2. Please site specific evidence that there will be another FBS playoff system in 5-7 years. Also, site evidence as to how many teams would be in it. Even if there is another playoff system, UM probably rarely, if ever, qualify.

3. I would rather be in the playoffs, anywhere and especially UM stadium, and have a chance at the national championship. Of course, you rarely attend games, so you don't get the fun of UM home games very often.

4. In a 12-game schedule, UM would sometimes have only 5 games, especially if UM was playing bigger money games.

5. Weekday games would be very difficult for UM fans, because many drive for so far out of town. Most Boise St. fans live in Boise and close to Boise. Weekday games would be a huge problem for UM and UM attendance.

6. At least, you agree there would be higher ticket prices.

7. Nope, UM is not experiencing lower attendance. See HavGriz's posts. Do some research before you make incorrect assertions. Thought you were better than that.

8. You may not care where players come from, but many Griz fans do. Also, many Griz fans from out of the Missoula area would not attend games or follow the Griz as much, if there weren't players from their home areas, in my view.

Serve me up some more cream puffs. I like hitting your BS out of the ballpark.

Like I said..."LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!!!!!" :lol:

 

[get'em_griz]

MWC teams DONT play on Wed or Thursday nights. stop with that myth.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2751/wyoming-cowboys" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not really a myth when this happens:

Tuesday, Oct 26, 2010 - Boise State vs LA Tech
Thursday, Aug 28, 2014 - Boise State vs Ole Miss, ESPN
Thursday, Aug 28, 2014 - San Jose State vs North Dakota

Wyoming might not play on Wednesday or Thursday nights, but other schools do, albeit rarely.

Friday night games are also a problem for people who have to drive multiple hours to get to Missoula.

I have to disagree with you on this, PR. The playoff game against UNI in 2011 was a playoff game, and that one was a near sellout. Yes it was a playoff game, but people had to get time off of work the week of and drive in winter road conditions, whereas people would be able to plan ahead and get time off in advance to make the drive for a Friday evening game. I don't think Friday night games would hurt attendance as much as you think. It's not like games are played every Friday night. If that were the case, then yes I'd agree with you that attendance could be hurt. But one Friday night game a year won't hurt attendance at UM at all.

 

[George Ferguson]

One Friday night game a year wouldn't hurt attendance, but what if the Griz played in a conference like the MAC, where ESPN makes them play almost ALL their games on Tuesday and Wednesday night's? I don't care WHO the opponent was, that would crush attendance at Wash-Griz. I've also seen no plan of a Little-Five playoff system either.

Oh yeah, and I drove from Havre the day of the Northern Iowa game. Roads were free and clear that day. LOL. JUst sayin.

 

[PlayerRep]

MWC teams DONT play on Wed or Thursday nights. stop with that myth.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/2751/wyoming-cowboys" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not really a myth when this happens:

Tuesday, Oct 26, 2010 - Boise State vs LA Tech
Thursday, Aug 28, 2014 - Boise State vs Ole Miss, ESPN
Thursday, Aug 28, 2014 - San Jose State vs North Dakota

Wyoming might not play on Wednesday or Thursday nights, but other schools do, albeit rarely.

Friday night games are also a problem for people who have to drive multiple hours to get to Missoula.

I have to disagree with you on this, PR. The playoff game against UNI in 2011 was a playoff game, and that one was a near sellout. Yes it was a playoff game, but people had to get time off of work the week of and drive in winter road conditions, whereas people would be able to plan ahead and get time off in advance to make the drive for a Friday evening game. I don't think Friday night games would hurt attendance as much as you think. It's not like games are played every Friday night. If that were the case, then yes I'd agree with you that attendance could be hurt. But one Friday night game a year won't hurt attendance at UM at all.

One Fri. night game wouldn't have a material impact on attendance, and would be fine. However, I suspect it would in fact have a bit lower attendance. Friday night playoff games are a slightly different animal. People want to get to playoff games, even though attendance at playoff games is lower than regular season games. The No. Iowa game in 2011 was well-attended, but it was the second lowest attendance of the season and lower than all regular season games.

 

[EverettGriz]

Beating the heck of the Cats, and having 2 playoff games, was alot of fun for me. Too bad you are unable to enjoy that.

You know, for most fans who desire to move up, it's not an "either/or" situation. I enjoy the playoffs. I would also enjoy a schedule playing teams in the MWC every weekend.

It ain't rocket science.

Would you also enjoy losing, not playing the Bobcats (or at least playing them less), never going to the playoffs, either not have a post-season game or having one in a place like Boise, having fewer home games, playing weekday games, having higher ticket prices, experiencing declining attendance, having far fewer MT kids on the roster, etc.?

PR, most of these myths have been beaten like a rented mule on this board, but it's to no avail, as the flat earthers have their fingers in their ears shouting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!!! so they don't have to listen.

1) We could still play the Bobcats every year. 98% of Mid-level FBS teams play down once a year.
2) There WILL be a playoff system in the Little 5 in the next 5-7 years.
3) I'd rather have a post-season game in Boise than in Iowa, North Dakota, Ohio, Tennessee, etc., etc. or almost anywhere FCS teams reside. The vast majority of REAL talent moved up.
4) In a 12-game season we'd still have six home games. We're not Idaho.
5) Weekday games wouldn't be the end of the world. In12 games last season, Boise State played 1 Thursday night game and 2 Friday night games. NINE Saturday games.
6) Higher ticket prices? You can't have higher costs without higher ticket prices. People want something for nothing? Ya'll a bunch of democrats?
7) We're ALREADY experiencing declining attendance. Think that might have something to do with the quality of opponent we're bringing in? Nah.....couldn't be.
8) I really couldn't care less WHERE the players come from, but any Montana kids that have made an impact (or that we expect to) would have been good enough to start/play for most of the MWC teams. Biermann, Carps, Tripp, Coyle, Wags, Crittenden, Kidder, Peevey, Schye, etc. And maybe we KEEP guys in-state like Sims, Miller, Roderick, etc., and land guys like Brekke, Osweiler, etc. Besides, what good does it do to load the roster with Montana kids who never (except for washup time) see the field--even at THIS level? I looked up the roster for the 1995 championship year. 22 kids from Montana. That's an average of less than 6/year--but I don't hear people bitching that we didn't have enough Montana kids that year??

Great post.

And I presume that opposing counsel must have used the term "windmill chaser" in a winning argument against PR, because it's certainly become his -- more than mildly annoyingly, mind you -- phase of the week.

 

[Silvertip]

A couple things.

One the MWC isn't headquartered in Salt Lake City, it is Colorado Springs.

Not sure what so many of you have against the MWC. Utah State fans are thrilled to be in the Mountain West. Just being in that league has done us a lot of good. I can't think of anything negative about being in the MWC. Ask Wyoming, USU, fans (or fans of any other MWC school) if they would trade places with anyone in FCS or the Big Sky. Good luck finding ANYONE that would.

Seeing the schedules of Big Sky schools and Mountain West schools for me there is NO DOUBT about which one I would rather see and buy tickets.

And the love for the FCS playoffs continues to escape me, but that is just me. I would rather have the "who gives crap" Bowl against a school I had heard of before they season started.

It is more of a culture thing Navy. The playoffs have produced amazing memories and success for Griz fans over the years. It is a truly an unbelievable environment, especially when the semi-finals were in Missoula. Great atmosphere! People have experienced those games and have a hard time seeing a move up being better. Montana will be on the road more and have a difficult time getting top tier teams to Missoula anyway. Financially it would not make a lot of sense unless the TV money was really good to make up the difference in the money needed to add sports, increase coaches salaries, recruiting budgets etc.

Nonsense. In the MWC every team alternates home and away games with each team on its schedule. You think the Griz would become the lone full-time road warrior if they were to become a member? To put a finer point on it the only way UM will ever host your "top tier teams" in Wa-Griz will because it found a home in the MWC... Hell, even Idaho, FBS in name only and the lame-ass punching bag of the Flat Earthers, will never again play in Missoula until UM puts on long pants and sheds the FCS scarlet letter. Why does it take so friggin long for supposedly smart people to wake up and smell the coffee?

 

[kemajic]

Hell, even Idaho, FBS in name only and the lame-ass punching bag of the Flat Earthers, will never again play in Missoula until UM puts on long pants and sheds the FCS scarlet letter. Why does it take so friggin long for supposedly smart people to wake up and smell the coffee?

The three-headed monster - bias, agenda and fear of change.

 

[EverettGriz]

Hell, even Idaho, FBS in name only and the lame-ass punching bag of the Flat Earthers, will never again play in Missoula until UM puts on long pants and sheds the FCS scarlet letter. Why does it take so friggin long for supposedly smart people to wake up and smell the coffee?

The three-headed monster - bias, agenda and fear of change.

I'd argue 4-headed. You can toss in the "We're-little-ole-Montana-we're not-good/big/important/rich/whatever-enough" inferiority complex.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Hell, even Idaho, FBS in name only and the lame-ass punching bag of the Flat Earthers, will never again play in Missoula until UM puts on long pants and sheds the FCS scarlet letter. Why does it take so friggin long for supposedly smart people to wake up and smell the coffee?

The three-headed monster - bias, agenda and fear of change.

I'd argue 4-headed. You can toss in the "We're-little-ole-Montana-we're not-good/big/important/rich/whatever-enough" inferiority complex.

Is it that, or is it more: "We're big bad Montana and if we hover around .500 for a few years we won't have any fans because we think all Griz fans equate the success of the football team with their pride in the University and we are therefore better off playing OK Panhandle so we can continue to feel tough."

 

[PlayerRep]

Hell, even Idaho, FBS in name only and the lame-ass punching bag of the Flat Earthers, will never again play in Missoula until UM puts on long pants and sheds the FCS scarlet letter. Why does it take so friggin long for supposedly smart people to wake up and smell the coffee?

The three-headed monster - bias, agenda and fear of change.

I'd argue 4-headed. You can toss in the "We're-little-ole-Montana-we're not-good/big/important/rich/whatever-enough" inferiority complex.

Is it that, or is it more: "We're big bad Montana and if we hover around .500 for a few years we won't have any fans because we think all Griz fans equate the success of the football team with their pride in the University and we are therefore better off playing OK Panhandle so we can continue to feel tough."

Do you think that attendance wouldn't drop if UM was around .500 for a few years, or even a bit over .500? I think it would drop significantly. UM's attendance has grown with the success of the team, and that success included both winning most games and going to and advancing in the playoffs. Attendance has also grown because the games and game-day atmosphere, at the stadium and in Missoula, are fun. There are alot of bandwagon fans. Bandwagon fans are fine, but most of them don't stick around without the continuance of the reasons they became fans continuing to exist. Also, my theory has been that some fans try to attend every, or almost every, home game, because of the importance of each game in winning the conference and making and getting seeded in the playoffs. Without the playoffs and without having a chance to contend for the conference championship in most years, I think some fans would be less likely to try to attend all games.

 

[PlayerRep]

You know, for most fans who desire to move up, it's not an "either/or" situation. I enjoy the playoffs. I would also enjoy a schedule playing teams in the MWC every weekend.

It ain't rocket science.

Would you also enjoy losing, not playing the Bobcats (or at least playing them less), never going to the playoffs, either not have a post-season game or having one in a place like Boise, having fewer home games, playing weekday games, having higher ticket prices, experiencing declining attendance, having far fewer MT kids on the roster, etc.?

PR, most of these myths have been beaten like a rented mule on this board, but it's to no avail, as the flat earthers have their fingers in their ears shouting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!!! so they don't have to listen.

1) We could still play the Bobcats every year. 98% of Mid-level FBS teams play down once a year.
2) There WILL be a playoff system in the Little 5 in the next 5-7 years.
3) I'd rather have a post-season game in Boise than in Iowa, North Dakota, Ohio, Tennessee, etc., etc. or almost anywhere FCS teams reside. The vast majority of REAL talent moved up.
4) In a 12-game season we'd still have six home games. We're not Idaho.
5) Weekday games wouldn't be the end of the world. In12 games last season, Boise State played 1 Thursday night game and 2 Friday night games. NINE Saturday games.
6) Higher ticket prices? You can't have higher costs without higher ticket prices. People want something for nothing? Ya'll a bunch of democrats?
7) We're ALREADY experiencing declining attendance. Think that might have something to do with the quality of opponent we're bringing in? Nah.....couldn't be.
8) I really couldn't care less WHERE the players come from, but any Montana kids that have made an impact (or that we expect to) would have been good enough to start/play for most of the MWC teams. Biermann, Carps, Tripp, Coyle, Wags, Crittenden, Kidder, Peevey, Schye, etc. And maybe we KEEP guys in-state like Sims, Miller, Roderick, etc., and land guys like Brekke, Osweiler, etc. Besides, what good does it do to load the roster with Montana kids who never (except for washup time) see the field--even at THIS level? I looked up the roster for the 1995 championship year. 22 kids from Montana. That's an average of less than 6/year--but I don't hear people bitching that we didn't have enough Montana kids that year??

Great post.

And I presume that opposing counsel must have used the term "windmill chaser" in a winning argument against PR, because it's certainly become his -- more than mildly annoyingly, mind you -- phase of the week.

If people are going to refer to posters who believe UM should be at the FCS level as "flat earthers", then it only seems fair to refer to Windmill Chasers in return.

"Great post", even though virtually everything said in it is not accurate or not true.

 

[kemajic]

The three-headed monster - bias, agenda and fear of change.

I'd argue 4-headed. You can toss in the "We're-little-ole-Montana-we're not-good/big/important/rich/whatever-enough" inferiority complex.

Is it that, or is it more: "We're big bad Montana and if we hover around .500 for a few years we won't have any fans because we think all Griz fans equate the success of the football team with their pride in the University and we are therefore better off playing OK Panhandle so we can continue to feel tough."

Do you think that attendance wouldn't drop if UM was around .500 for a few years, or even a bit over .500? I think it would drop significantly. UM's attendance has grown with the success of the team, and that success included both winning most games and going to and advancing in the playoffs. Attendance has also grown because the games and game-day atmosphere, at the stadium and in Missoula, are fun. There are alot of bandwagon fans. Bandwagon fans are fine, but most of them don't stick around without the continuance of the reasons they became fans continuing to exist. Also, my theory has been that some fans try to attend every, or almost every, home game, because of the importance of each game in winning the conference and making and getting seeded in the playoffs. Without the playoffs and without having a chance to contend for the conference championship in most years, I think some fans would be less likely to try to attend all games.

To use your own words - a theory, no more. And not better supported than others expressed. With fan playoff focus such a key component of this theory, how does it explain that with only a few exceptions, playoff attendance is so unimpressive? Maybe that requires another theory. Your theory is also challenged by the fact that the overall average attendance for programs that move up increases (not decreases) and those that move up never move back down, even if as unsuccessful as you theorize.

 

[Eastern Montana Griz]

Hell, even Idaho, FBS in name only and the lame-ass punching bag of the Flat Earthers, will never again play in Missoula until UM puts on long pants and sheds the FCS scarlet letter. Why does it take so friggin long for supposedly smart people to wake up and smell the coffee?

The three-headed monster - bias, agenda and fear of change.

I'd argue 4-headed. You can toss in the "We're-little-ole-Montana-we're not-good/big/important/rich/whatever-enough" inferiority complex.

I'd argue 1-headed monster. With that head being $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

I am a "need the two ends to meet" (Do we have enough money to pay the added bills?) and not for just 1 year but for all the years. I need to see numbers for the added expenses and the added guaranteed revenue (not possible revenue) after we move up.

Also living over here in eastern Montana (Sidney) please don't use the "we can get more money from oil tax" reason. with oil at around $50 a barrel, lots of butts are puckering right now (oil is too up and down to use as a stable *consistent* revenue stream)

So show me that it is financially feasible with guaranteed money (not with trust me it will work) and I am all for moving up.

 

[AZGrizFan]

The three-headed monster - bias, agenda and fear of change.

I'd argue 4-headed. You can toss in the "We're-little-ole-Montana-we're not-good/big/important/rich/whatever-enough" inferiority complex.

Is it that, or is it more: "We're big bad Montana and if we hover around .500 for a few years we won't have any fans because we think all Griz fans equate the success of the football team with their pride in the University and we are therefore better off playing OK Panhandle so we can continue to feel tough."

Do you think that attendance wouldn't drop if UM was around .500 for a few years, or even a bit over .500? I think it would drop significantly. UM's attendance has grown with the success of the team, and that success included both winning most games and going to and advancing in the playoffs. Attendance has also grown because the games and game-day atmosphere, at the stadium and in Missoula, are fun. There are alot of bandwagon fans. Bandwagon fans are fine, but most of them don't stick around without the continuance of the reasons they became fans continuing to exist. Also, my theory has been that some fans try to attend every, or almost every, home game, because of the importance of each game in winning the conference and making and getting seeded in the playoffs. Without the playoffs and without having a chance to contend for the conference championship in most years, I think some fans would be less likely to try to attend all games.

WHY do you automatically assume we'll suck? I just do NOT get it.... :roll:

 

[AZGrizFan]

Would you also enjoy losing, not playing the Bobcats (or at least playing them less), never going to the playoffs, either not have a post-season game or having one in a place like Boise, having fewer home games, playing weekday games, having higher ticket prices, experiencing declining attendance, having far fewer MT kids on the roster, etc.?

PR, most of these myths have been beaten like a rented mule on this board, but it's to no avail, as the flat earthers have their fingers in their ears shouting LA LA LA LA LA LA LA!!!!! so they don't have to listen.

1) We could still play the Bobcats every year. 98% of Mid-level FBS teams play down once a year.
2) There WILL be a playoff system in the Little 5 in the next 5-7 years.
3) I'd rather have a post-season game in Boise than in Iowa, North Dakota, Ohio, Tennessee, etc., etc. or almost anywhere FCS teams reside. The vast majority of REAL talent moved up.
4) In a 12-game season we'd still have six home games. We're not Idaho.
5) Weekday games wouldn't be the end of the world. In12 games last season, Boise State played 1 Thursday night game and 2 Friday night games. NINE Saturday games.
6) Higher ticket prices? You can't have higher costs without higher ticket prices. People want something for nothing? Ya'll a bunch of democrats?
7) We're ALREADY experiencing declining attendance. Think that might have something to do with the quality of opponent we're bringing in? Nah.....couldn't be.
8) I really couldn't care less WHERE the players come from, but any Montana kids that have made an impact (or that we expect to) would have been good enough to start/play for most of the MWC teams. Biermann, Carps, Tripp, Coyle, Wags, Crittenden, Kidder, Peevey, Schye, etc. And maybe we KEEP guys in-state like Sims, Miller, Roderick, etc., and land guys like Brekke, Osweiler, etc. Besides, what good does it do to load the roster with Montana kids who never (except for washup time) see the field--even at THIS level? I looked up the roster for the 1995 championship year. 22 kids from Montana. That's an average of less than 6/year--but I don't hear people bitching that we didn't have enough Montana kids that year??

Great post.

And I presume that opposing counsel must have used the term "windmill chaser" in a winning argument against PR, because it's certainly become his -- more than mildly annoyingly, mind you -- phase of the week.

If people are going to refer to posters who believe UM should be at the FCS level as "flat earthers", then it only seems fair to refer to Windmill Chasers in return.

"Great post", even though virtually everything said in it is not accurate or not true.

PR, contradicting MY opinions with YOUR opinions doesn't make any of it any more or less true...and THAT is a fact.

 

[druhag]

Do you think that attendance wouldn't drop if UM was around .500 for a few years, or even a bit over .500? I think it would drop significantly.

I think it would, but couldn't that happen in FCS?