Dog Day Massacre: Butler Best in Show

[Swillbury]

Since you were wondering umdeez, I took the liberty to find those useless stats:

ZAGS vs. ACC

Gonzaga’s record against teams from the Atlantic Coast Conference is 8-1:

1995: lost to No. 10 Maryland (NCAA Tournament)
1997: beat No. 5 Clemson (Top of the World, Fairbanks)
2001: beat No. 15 Virginia (NCAA Tournament)
2002: beat No. 18 North Carolina St. (Continental Arena, NJ)
2003: beat No. 25 Maryland (MCI Center, DC)
2004: beat No. 3 Georgia Tech (Thomas & Mack, Vegas)
2005: beat No. 23 Maryland (Maui Classic)
2005: beat Virginia (McCarthey Center)
2006: beat No. 2 UNC (Madison Square Garden)

Yeah, you are right, they would have no chance at being anything but a middle of the pack team in the ACC....

Dude, don't assume, get your facts straight before you go off making wild assertions. I think anybody who looks at the above would agree that one can make a stronger case for GU being a contenter in the ACC than he/she could for them being a middle of the pack team.

Any more brain busters?

Its the Wednesday vs Wake Forest, Friday vs Duke and Saturday vs UNC that makes a conference like the ACC tough. Playing a first round game or an early season game sandwiched between Eastern Washington and Idaho is not the same thing.

The Zags would compete but they would be no better than Georgia Tech, Wake Forest or Virginia.

He makes an excellent point. There is a huge difference between 9 ACC games in last 11 years or 15 ACC games in a season. And when you add in the OCC that most of those teams play, it makes for a rough entire season. Gonzaga plays a legit team every say 4 games in their OCC and usually win or keep it close but then the rest of the games are gimmies. Then after that, they get to coast through the WCC. Its just not the same and I refuse to claim them as any more as a mid-major on steriods.

They would be a good team in the Valley and an average team in the Big East/ACC/Big XII/Pac-10

:twocents:

 

[Lou]

Lou- my team is Illinois if you must know. I attend UM so I am a griz fan by nature but I am a fan of the Big 10 and in particular Illini. BTW my friend Illinois would wipe there a$$ with gonzaga.

Illinois lost to Maryland last night @ home.
Beat Bradley on 11/25 by 4.
Beat Miami (OH) on 11/24 by 2.

Yeah, you're probably right, the Zags wouldn't stand a chance against such a talented squad.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Since you were wondering umdeez, I took the liberty to find those useless stats:

ZAGS vs. ACC

Gonzaga’s record against teams from the Atlantic Coast Conference is 8-1:

1995: lost to No. 10 Maryland (NCAA Tournament)
1997: beat No. 5 Clemson (Top of the World, Fairbanks)
2001: beat No. 15 Virginia (NCAA Tournament)
2002: beat No. 18 North Carolina St. (Continental Arena, NJ)
2003: beat No. 25 Maryland (MCI Center, DC)
2004: beat No. 3 Georgia Tech (Thomas & Mack, Vegas)
2005: beat No. 23 Maryland (Maui Classic)
2005: beat Virginia (McCarthey Center)
2006: beat No. 2 UNC (Madison Square Garden)

Yeah, you are right, they would have no chance at being anything but a middle of the pack team in the ACC....

Dude, don't assume, get your facts straight before you go off making wild assertions. I think anybody who looks at the above would agree that one can make a stronger case for GU being a contenter in the ACC than he/she could for them being a middle of the pack team.

Any more brain busters?

Its the Wednesday vs Wake Forest, Friday vs Duke and Saturday vs UNC that makes a conference like the ACC tough. Playing a first round game or an early season game sandwiched between Eastern Washington and Idaho is not the same thing.

The Zags would compete but they would be no better than Georgia Tech, Wake Forest or Virginia.

He makes an excellent point. There is a huge difference between 9 ACC games in last 11 years or 15 ACC games in a season. And when you add in the OCC that most of those teams play, it makes for a rough entire season. Gonzaga plays a legit team every say 4 games in their OCC and usually win or keep it close but then the rest of the games are gimmies. Then after that, they get to coast through the WCC. Its just not the same and I refuse to claim them as any more as a mid-major on steriods.

They would be a good team in the Valley and an average team in the Big East/ACC/Big XII/Pac-10

:twocents:

I can see where you are coming from, but I think it may be a little bit of the opposite. If you've ever played sports, then you can agree: It's tough to get up for "easy" games. As such, when you have been "coasting" for a couple games in a row, you get conditioned, lazy and complacent. To analogize, it's kind of like when a student goes from highschool to college: in highschool, he can get straight A's w/o even trying, but when he goes to college his old tricks won't work anymore. Now, imagine going back and forth. Easier than college all the time? Collectively, Yes. Tougher to get in a rhythm? You bet!

Now, I know the ACC would be a tougher schedule, but when a team knows this night in and night out, they aren't taken by suprise as often. Am I saying the ZAGS would win the ACC? God No. Am I speculating that over the last couple of years they would be a better than average team in the ACC? Yes. Speculation is a form of guessing. To guess well, you need some form of evidence. GU's record against the ACC is evidence supporting my guess. If I guessed anything to the contrary, I wouldn't have anything to support my guess because no evidence to the contrary exists.

Swilly, I agree that GU is a mid-major on 'roids. They play in a mid-major conference, so it's tough to be anything but. Vandy is in a major conference, but I'd say GU has the better program. Mid-major isn't a dirty word anymore.

At least you guys actually think before you type though...unlike some.

 

[umdeez]

Your right louie 6-pack Illinois did lose to Maryland. Maryland is a ranked team and a good team and they beat Illini for the first time in 51 games on there homecourt. I hate to say this and I know I will catch heat for it but I saw at least 5 calls that hurt Illinois in terms of traveling calls and touch fouls on the Illini. The refs were just as bad in the NC vs. Ohio State game last night. Back to the point. What is your argument to me when you say Illinois lost to Maryland? Maryland is traditionally an ACC power and a storied program, there not a mid-major picked to finish 3rd in the Horizon conference. Im just gonna say it, your ignorant louie and cdagriz if you think Gonzgaga can hang with these teams through the rigors of an ACC or Big East or Big Ten conference schedule. They couldn't do it, THERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

[theblackgecko]

Hey, why can't I vote for Wazzu?

 

[umdeez]

Sorry blackgecko. If I would have put a third team up it would have been Wazzu, then Central Washington, then Seattle Pacific, then Gonzaga.

 

[IamYou]

I can't handle this thread, some of the claims are just too ridiculous

First off, the term mid-major refers to resources that a school has. Gonzaga is a small school with a relatively low athletic budget compared to BCS schools. So yes, they are a mid-major. However, they do have high-major talent and high-major success, but as that does not fit into what a mid-major defines, it is irrelavent.

Some of you seem to think they do not have much talent compared to the big boys. I would just like to say that here is what scout.com ranked their relevant roster when their players came out of high school, as it seems that that is what some of you go by:
Cespedes 3 star (offer from Pitt)
Bouldin 4 star (offers from BC and Notre Dame)
Burgess 3 star (offers from Florida and Lousiville)
Davis 3 star
Downs 5 star (offers from Kansas, went to kansas originally, and Mich St.)
Gurganious 4 star
Heytvelt 4 star (signed early no other offers)
Mallon 3 star
Pendergraft 4 star (signed early no other offers)
Ravio 3 star (offers from Texas and Oregon)
Pargo 3 star

Compare that with say UCLA #1 in the AP, and their main guys,:

Keefe 4 star
Collison 4 star
Afflalo 4 star
Aboya 4 star
Mata 4 star
Moute 3 star
Roll 4 star
Shipp 4 star
Wright 4 star
Westbrook 4 star

For 2007-2008, Gonzaga has signed:

Daye 4 star
Sacre 3 star
Gray 3 star

For 2007-2008, UCLA has signed:

Love 5 star
Stanbeck 4 star

There's just not a big difference. Secondly, I would like to point out that when a guy signs with someone like North Carolina, he goes up by about a star and is on the McDonalds radar and when a guy signs with someone like Gonzaga he goes down a star and removed from the radar, despite whatever the player's talents are.

Now here's the zags non-conference schedule:

Eastern Washington
Rice
Baylor
Texas-SA
North Carolina
Bulter
Idaho
Portland State
Texas
Washington State
Washington
Georgia
Duke
Nevada
Virginia

Hands down the toughest OOC schedule in the country with probably 9 or 10 of those 15 going to the tourney this year. Very far from 4 game rests and then a toughy.

I guess you will find out by the end of that schedule of whether or not they would compete in a premier conference. whether or not they do well in those games, I really believe they would do just dandy in a BCS conference.

 

[Lou]

Your right louie 6-pack Illinois did lose to Maryland. Maryland is a ranked team and a good team and they beat Illini for the first time in 51 games on there homecourt. I hate to say this and I know I will catch heat for it but I saw at least 5 calls that hurt Illinois in terms of traveling calls and touch fouls on the Illini. The refs were just as bad in the NC vs. Ohio State game last night. Back to the point. What is your argument to me when you say Illinois lost to Maryland? Maryland is traditionally an ACC power and a storied program, there not a mid-major picked to finish 3rd in the Horizon conference. Im just gonna say it, your ignorant louie and cdagriz if you think Gonzgaga can hang with these teams through the rigors of an ACC or Big East or Big Ten conference schedule. They couldn't do it, THERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

You said that "Illinois would wipe their a$$ with Gonzaga." I hate to tell you but the Zags are way better thatn Illinois. I was making the point that Illinois barely won two games against horrible teams and then lost their first "real" game of the year. Gonzaga beat UNC. Who has Illinois beat this year?

 

[Grizbacker1]

I would to chit chat with you Zag lovers, but the Griz are getting ready to play a football game, and that is way more important than seeing which one of you guys can stroke your team the longest without messing your keyboard. Is your football team playing in the post season? What? You are a one trick pony? Oh OK. :shocked:

 

[Lou]

Your right louie 6-pack Illinois did lose to Maryland. Maryland is a ranked team and a good team and they beat Illini for the first time in 51 games on there homecourt. I hate to say this and I know I will catch heat for it but I saw at least 5 calls that hurt Illinois in terms of traveling calls and touch fouls on the Illini. The refs were just as bad in the NC vs. Ohio State game last night. Back to the point. What is your argument to me when you say Illinois lost to Maryland? Maryland is traditionally an ACC power and a storied program, there not a mid-major picked to finish 3rd in the Horizon conference. Im just gonna say it, your ignorant louie and cdagriz if you think Gonzgaga can hang with these teams through the rigors of an ACC or Big East or Big Ten conference schedule. They couldn't do it, THERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

P.S. Get your facts straight before you post. Illinois had won 51 straight non conference home games. And don't blame the refs for a loss, that is just weak. BTW, the longest home winning streak in the nation belongs to "The Zags".

 

[Lou]

I would to chit chat with you Zag lovers, but the Griz are getting ready to play a football game, and that is way more important than seeing which one of you guys can stroke your team the longest without messing your keyboard. Is your football team playing in the post season? What? You are a one trick pony? Oh OK. :shocked:

Yep, just a one trick pony. We don't dominate two sports like U of M. What is your basketball team's win-loss record this year anyway?

P.S. Don't get too excited about your football team their only I-AA, not the real thing.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I would to chit chat with you Zag lovers, but the Griz are getting ready to play a football game, and that is way more important than seeing which one of you guys can stroke your team the longest without messing your keyboard. Is your football team playing in the post season? What? You are a one trick pony? Oh OK. :shocked:

Ooo! Oooo! I wanna try this kind of humor! OK here goes: Well, I'm sorry you have to go GB1, but I understand. You have a long journey over to the FB board that could include God knows how many mouse clicks. I'm glad you found time in your busy posting schedule to bid us low-lifes farwell, though. Happy posting and godspeed to you. Seriously though, GO GRIZ!

 

[Swillbury]

I would to chit chat with you Zag lovers, but the Griz are getting ready to play a football game, and that is way more important than seeing which one of you guys can stroke your team the longest without messing your keyboard. Is your football team playing in the post season? What? You are a one trick pony? Oh OK. :shocked:

Once again, I have troubles respecting a program that doesnt even field a football team. Just imagine what little ol' GU would do if they had to spend one of their boosters money on a football stadium and a football program....

BTW:Illinios no longer holds the nonconference record. Maryland snapped in on tuesday, so now that record goes to Oklahoma if im not mistaken is at 48. Then Duke.

GU would drop a home game or two if they played in the Pac-10. Not saying they wouldnt compete but they for sure would drop a game.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Your right louie 6-pack Illinois did lose to Maryland. Maryland is a ranked team and a good team and they beat Illini for the first time in 51 games on there homecourt. I hate to say this and I know I will catch heat for it but I saw at least 5 calls that hurt Illinois in terms of traveling calls and touch fouls on the Illini. The refs were just as bad in the NC vs. Ohio State game last night. Back to the point. What is your argument to me when you say Illinois lost to Maryland? Maryland is traditionally an ACC power and a storied program, there not a mid-major picked to finish 3rd in the Horizon conference. Im just gonna say it, your ignorant louie and cdagriz if you think Gonzgaga can hang with these teams through the rigors of an ACC or Big East or Big Ten conference schedule. They couldn't do it, THERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Neither one of us said they'd win the conference every year. But beyond that, What are we supposed to believe? Your guess based on a hunch; or our educated guess based on facts. Neither one leasd to surety, but one (ours) definitely comes a lot closer to doing so.

Dude, don't call other ignorant when you can't even put a frekin' sentence together without misspelling something. "your ignorant" c'mon, use the right your/you're when YOU'RE calling someone out!

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I would to chit chat with you Zag lovers, but the Griz are getting ready to play a football game, and that is way more important than seeing which one of you guys can stroke your team the longest without messing your keyboard. Is your football team playing in the post season? What? You are a one trick pony? Oh OK. :shocked:

GU would drop a home game or two if they played in the Pac-10. Not saying they wouldnt compete but they for sure would drop a game.

Totally agree Swill.

 

[Lou]

Sorry blackgecko. If I would have put a third team up it would have been Wazzu, then Central Washington, then Seattle Pacific, then Gonzaga.

That sounds about how well you know basketball talent.
Don't hate the name, respect the game.

 

[umdeez]

Hey Jimmy Dykes(Iamyou) thanks for reminding everyone what mid-major means now maybe try using your CSI(common sense index) and please don't compare Gonzaga to UCLA. That's the type of thing thing that makes everyone so annoyed with Gonzaga fans. Being proud is one thing and being delusional is another. I would compare Zags fans to Griz football fans that think the Griz could move up and still contend. It's just not happening. CDAgriz- If I wanted to have you proofread my posts then I'll ask. Just read the post and respond, I think it's clear my writing skills are superior to yours comparing our posts(not relevant however). If you feel like you need to teach english 101 get together with your Louie and you can study sentence structure and bounce ol' Zag stories off each other's foreheads. Gonzaga has never won a national championship, never made a final four and until they do I refuse to compare them to teams like UNC, UCLA< and Florida to name a few.
Swilly, your right Illinois doesn't have that record anymore. It was a good run thanks for updating us on Oklahoma having the new record and your exactly right on many points. In particular, GU would without a doubt lose at least two home conference games if they were in the PAC-10. How hard is it to put the boots to a bunch of malibu surfers who show up to the game fresh off the beach with one thing on their mind, getting back to the swells!

 

[CDAGRIZ]

CDAgriz- If I wanted to have you proofread my posts then I'll ask. Just read the post and respond, I think it's clear my writing skills are superior to yours comparing our posts(not relevant however). quote]

I think I just blew a funny fuse. Seriously dude, you can't even put a sentence together without making an error. Either that, or you put two of them together that don't belong. I wouldn't make such a big deal about it if you could refrain from calling people ignorant whilst misspelling the word berore ignorant. I just think it's really, really funny. It's like that sign that a red-stater had that read" "Get a brain MORANS".

PS: Now that you said that, I'm going to pick your posts apart to the Nth degree.

 

[umdeez]

Cdagriz- I'm on here to talk basketball not get spelling lessons from a guy who spells while with an 'st' on the end and before...berore. ( I.E.-I wouldn't make such a big deal about it if you could refrain from calling people ignorant whilst misspelling the word berore ignorant). Oh and like I told louise and thank god he listened for the time being...save your corny jokes for the Zag board. Funny fuse? Wow that's hilarious! Go ahead pick my posts apart, if you think pointing out grammatical errors makes me feel dumb think again. Maybe start by picking yours apart.

 

[Lou]

That's the type of thing thing that makes everyone so annoyed with Gonzaga fans. Being proud is one thing and being delusional is another. I would compare Zags fans to Griz football fans that think the Griz could move up and still contend. It's just not happening.

You are going to compare Zags fans with Griz football fans that think they would compete in I-A? I know you are just saying this to get a rise out of me because nobody could be stupid enough to believe that. First of all when the Zags compete against big name schools i.e. UCLA, UNC, etc. they do compete and often win (like this year). On the other hand however, (no offense to Griz football fans) the Griz get smoked by big name schools. For example, Iowa, they lost 41 to 7. And Iowa isn't that good of a team this year.
Are you serious? Do you not look at cold hard facts and evidence before you go spouting off at the mouth. The fact of the matter is-is that the Zags compete with anyone anywhere. So don't say that Zag fans are "delusional" because the facts are right in front of you.