Does The Stitt Offense Handicap UM Football? b

[zirge]

Not only that, but he sure as shit isn't going to abandon something that's gotten him this far, especially in a year he's "on the hot seat" and try and implement a completely different scheme at the 11th hour...like or not, we're gonna be seeing a lot of what we saw (play wise) last year...

Yikes!......plus if it takes 4-5 years for the qb to learn and run the system with any efficientcy, according to one, you think the summer was a long wait and see, buckle up.

I know many on here will not agree...but I think the system is not the problem...I believe the QB running the system was the problem.

We all see how it can work when the QB is doing his job....we beat the 5 time champs when it happens.

Even though I think BG was an average QB at best and was certainly a reason why the offense struggled, it is unfair to put it all on him. Poor OL play, a huge drop off in receiver play, and Stitt's seemingly inability to evolve and adjust his offense all get there share of the blame. And I did not even touch on the struggles on the defensive side of the ball.

you both make good points along with mtgrizfan and horribilisfan on page 5.....yes the qb needs to be good enough to pick and execute the optimal option to manipulate and stretch the defense or have a cooper kup to bail you out several times a game, still believe if the system is that intricate it may be too much at this level due to speed of play and an upgrade of talent on the field from what stitts was use to.
that is why i say yikes to "that we are gonna see more like last year (play wise) and needing a qb that has to have mensa ability, a photographic memory and lightening reflexes to execute. i believe you badlands that you see it as the qb not the system, i see it as tweak the system to give the qb less to comprehend to lessen the chance of failure. too many components to judge in such a short amount of time, especially if you have a swiss cheese o line and don't have sub 11 100meter receivers. jlm got most of his yards dodging tacklers. not exactly executing the system to what stitts was thinking would be his standout playbook.

 

[fanofzoo]

I was just wondering when the last time we used 5 different QBs in two seasons because of injury?
It would be nice to have a QB stay fairly healthy for an entire season and see what kind of success he would have.

Well, let's see, in 2015, three UM QBs playing four nearly equal rotations, the Conference record was 6-2 playing all Delaney guys, using Delaney's well-regarded Defensive Coordinator, with an experienced D1 staff, getting to second round in playoffs.

The interesting thing about that second playoff game; no matter how bad it gets, Stitt will not change his game plan. His post-game interview was a marvel of self-delusion. Despite that, Stitt took the credit: "this is how we are going to run things now."

In 2016, Stitt ditches his most experienced senior staff guy, goes to an all-D2 senior staff, with this preferred, much-more experienced Montana QB playing most of the games, the Griz Conference record fell to 3-5, we lost to two conference bottom dwellers, and we lost to the Cats (conf record, 2-6) in Missoula before 25,000 depressed and incredulous spectators, the Cats using a freshman QB who doesn't throw the ball well, against UM's nationally-ranked QB chewing up UM's vaunted Defense guided by our D2 Masterminds.

Implementing "Stitt's System" the Griz had a nervous breakdown and humiliated the Griz, losing four of the last five conference games, including to conference bottom-dwellers in front of the season's largest crowd, at home.

During the final half of the season, Stitt evolved from an angry but still cocky coach feeling undercut by a few players, to a coach who blamed his whole team, to a coach who was finally forced to take the full blame himself after everyone saw it collapse in Missoula to the struggling and suffering Cats -- who just happened to have an experienced D1 coach in charge.

Wonder about that?

Yes, yes I do and I and hoping therapy will help.

 

[fanofzoo]

Why can't we just find a coach that will not lose another game (EVER), sign every top recruit, and win the National Championship every year? What could anyone possibly bitch about then?????? :roll:

Time to start the move up thread.

 

[Stop_HammerTime69]

Why can't we just find a coach that will not lose another game (EVER), sign every top recruit, and win the National Championship every year? What could anyone possibly bitch about then?????? :roll:

Time to start the move up thread.

Isn't that a thing pretty much year round though?

 

[SoldierGriz]

Yikes!......plus if it takes 4-5 years for the qb to learn and run the system with any efficientcy, according to one, you think the summer was a long wait and see, buckle up.

I know many on here will not agree...but I think the system is not the problem...I believe the QB running the system was the problem.

We all see how it can work when the QB is doing his job....we beat the 5 time champs when it happens.

Even though I think BG was an average QB at best and was certainly a reason why the offense struggled, it is unfair to put it all on him. Poor OL play, a huge drop off in receiver play, and Stitt's seemingly inability to evolve and adjust his offense all get there share of the blame. And I did not even touch on the struggles on the defensive side of the ball.

you both make good points along with mtgrizfan and horribilisfan on page 5.....yes the qb needs to be good enough to pick and execute the optimal option to manipulate and stretch the defense or have a cooper kup to bail you out several times a game, still believe if the system is that intricate it may be too much at this level due to speed of play and an upgrade of talent on the field from what stitts was use to.
that is why i say yikes to "that we are gonna see more like last year (play wise) and needing a qb that has to have mensa ability, a photographic memory and lightening reflexes to execute. i believe you badlands that you see it as the qb not the system, i see it as tweak the system to give the qb less to comprehend to lessen the chance of failure. too many components to judge in such a short amount of time, especially if you have a swiss cheese o line and sub 11 100meter receivers. jlm got most of his yards dodging tacklers. not exactly executing the system to what stitts was thinking would be his standout playbook.

Well, we have his back-up as our likely starter this year, so there's that....

 

[bgbigdog]

Yep, and can you blame him? The guy even said outright...hes been waiting to test his system at the next level...it needs to work for him. Hes doing it at the most visible program in the FCS...first year it kinda worked...second year it kinda didnt. This year its either going to work or not.

He sure as shit isnt going to abandon it now because half of egriz thinks they know more about football than him.

Not only that, but he sure as shit isn't going to abandon something that's gotten him this far, especially in a year he's "on the hot seat" and try and implement a completely different scheme at the 11th hour...like or not, we're gonna be seeing a lot of what we saw (play wise) last year...

Yikes!......plus if it takes 4-5 years for the qb to learn and run the system with any efficientcy, according to one, you think the summer was a long wait and see, buckle up.

I know many on here will not agree...but I think the system is not the problem...I believe the QB running the system was the problem.

We all see how it can work when the QB is doing his job....we beat the 5 time champs when it happens.

I think the five-time champ had something to do with losing that game & used it for motivation in round 2 @ the end of that season. And props to Gustafson for leading them back.

It's likely they're going to have to get past whatever caused the collapses of last season, before anything gets significantly better. Without pointing fingers, something I constantly want to do, someone recognized that it's important to be "united" when they take the field, thus a spelled-out point in the new corporate buzzwords for this season. If you haven't already watched it, look @ Colt's speech to the team before the spring game. He puts what it means to "represent" about as well as anyone could have. Get back to that, and you may have something.

I would like Bob to utilize a little different philosophy this season on offense. How about improvise, adapt & overcome. It works. All he needs to do is watch the tape of the UUNI game from last season.

 

[horribilisfan8184]

I think most of the posters on here are missing the boat on the issues facing Coach Stitt and the team. It's not his X's and O's, it's the intangibles and aspects of human nature he underestimated.

When he came here, he left a program where he was head coach for 15 years. The first year he had his recruits (year 5) they went 12-1. There was no one left from the prior coach's recruits. There was no one left who didn't buy into Stitt's system, no one with loyalties to prior coaches, no one who felt entitled to a starting position once they won it. He comes to Montana and has to accept as his DC someone he beat our for the job, someone who was the players' first choice for the HC position. This was a bigger hurdle to team unity and performance than any opposing team.

Stitt's first mistake was agreeing to keep Ty. Ty's players were loyal to him, and backed him against Stitt. "Mature" 21 and 22 year-olds were acting like teenage step sons who wouldn't mind their step dad. Is it any mystery why tranfers, Jones, Hendo and Roberts were our three best players? Sure they had talent, but they also knew how to be mature and work with changes in coaches and philosophies and all bought in. Many of the players who didn't were cleaned out, but not until after the first year.

Montana is the state flagship university. CSM, not so much. Home state boys are the darlings of the fans, the media, the boosters, and this board. Look at the 37 jersey hoopla. I'm surprised the ACLU hasn't stepped in to stop that. Point is this is a seed for dissension, not unity, and I don't think Stitt anticipated this. But he did notice something about a "me first" attitude, and responded by taking names off the backs of jerseys. Think it was Stitt's recruits who bristled at this? I'd deal with this by making 73 a special jersey for the out-of-state kids, and raise that flag each game as well.

Stitt'ss now on his third year and it's evident he and the team have learned from these prior issues. The film of practice drills and the scrimmages show greater camaraderie and effort than I remember his first 2 years. I know parents of several players who report that Stitt's recruits are now becoming leaders in the locker room and on the field. They are excited about the leadership qualities of all the current QB's. None of them want or will tolerate the type of let down that happened last year. My experience with these players is they tell boosters and sycophants what they think they want to hear, and tell their parents the actual story. I share none of the pessimism of crowd on here wanting to run Stitt out on a rail.

Stitt has a very keen football mind. He didn't get stupid by leaving CSM. I think he underestimated the forces of resistance he was going to face, and his ability to get the square pegs he inherited at the QB into a system requiring round pegs. I think Semore will learn to adapt his defenses and adjustments much better now that he's seen BSC offenses for two years and had to make those calls by himself.

I think we will see less slow starts this year, and we will put a few teams away by half or mid 3rd qtr. And I'm going to take the Griz and the points against Washington. Stitt has won this team over. I believe he and this years' team will win the fans over as well with their performances. The football will still bounce in funny ways, and if a few more bounce the team's way, look out.

 

[AZGrizFan]

I agree with everything you said. Great post. I'm actually more worried about Semore and the D's performance, in all honesty.

 

[Spanky]

As....you lost me. I thought the Defense is a segment of Stitts team and overall responsibility? Or do you judge Stitt only on the performance of the Offense?

 

[sdk.catfish]

Post by horribilisfan8184 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:23 pm

I think most of the posters on here are missing the boat on the issues facing Coach Stitt and the team. It's not his X's and O's, it's the intangibles and aspects of human nature he underestimated.

When he came here, he left a program where he was head coach for 15 years. The first year he had his recruits (year 5) they went 12-1. There was no one left from the prior coach's recruits. There was no one left who didn't buy into Stitt's system, no one with loyalties to prior coaches, no one who felt entitled to a starting position once they won it.

If this is correct then what happened in year 6 (2005), year 7 (2006) and year 13 (2012)? Were those somebody else's recruits playing or were there players in those years that didn't buy into his system or whose loyalties were elsewhere? It seems that many on this board have put so much importance on having his own recruits and I don't think that can be shown the overriding factor in success or failure. Think James Madison - 2016 - first year coach, national championship

2005 Colorado Mines 6–5
2006 Colorado Mines 4–7
2007 Colorado Mines 7–5
2008 Colorado Mines 8–4
2009 Colorado Mines 8–3
2010 Colorado Mines 9–3
2011 Colorado Mines 8–3
2012 Colorado Mines 6–5
2013 Colorado Mines 8–3
2014 Colorado Mines 10–2

 

[horribilisfan8184]

Post by horribilisfan8184 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:23 pm

I think most of the posters on here are missing the boat on the issues facing Coach Stitt and the team. It's not his X's and O's, it's the intangibles and aspects of human nature he underestimated.

When he came here, he left a program where he was head coach for 15 years. The first year he had his recruits (year 5) they went 12-1. There was no one left from the prior coach's recruits. There was no one left who didn't buy into Stitt's system, no one with loyalties to prior coaches, no one who felt entitled to a starting position once they won it.

If this is correct then what happened in year 6 (2005), year 7 (2006) and year 13 (2012)? Were those somebody else's recruits playing or were there players in those years that didn't buy into his system or whose loyalties were elsewhere? It seems that many on this board have put so much importance on having his own recruits and I don't think that can be shown the overriding factor in success or failure. Think James Madison - 2016 - first year coach, national championship

2005 Colorado Mines 6–5
2006 Colorado Mines 4–7
2007 Colorado Mines 7–5
2008 Colorado Mines 8–4
2009 Colorado Mines 8–3
2010 Colorado Mines 9–3
2011 Colorado Mines 8–3
2012 Colorado Mines 6–5
2013 Colorado Mines 8–3
2014 Colorado Mines 10–2

James Madison won the old fashioned way, heavy on FBS transfers. Stitt's recruits were subject to extreme academic standards and performance, not athletic prowess. His opponents always had better athletes. That he didn't always have the D-II player of the year at QB had something to do with it too.

 

[casewinter13]

Post by horribilisfan8184 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:23 pm

I think most of the posters on here are missing the boat on the issues facing Coach Stitt and the team. It's not his X's and O's, it's the intangibles and aspects of human nature he underestimated.

When he came here, he left a program where he was head coach for 15 years. The first year he had his recruits (year 5) they went 12-1. There was no one left from the prior coach's recruits. There was no one left who didn't buy into Stitt's system, no one with loyalties to prior coaches, no one who felt entitled to a starting position once they won it.

If this is correct then what happened in year 6 (2005), year 7 (2006) and year 13 (2012)? Were those somebody else's recruits playing or were there players in those years that didn't buy into his system or whose loyalties were elsewhere? It seems that many on this board have put so much importance on having his own recruits and I don't think that can be shown the overriding factor in success or failure. Think James Madison - 2016 - first year coach, national championship

2005 Colorado Mines 6–5
2006 Colorado Mines 4–7
2007 Colorado Mines 7–5
2008 Colorado Mines 8–4
2009 Colorado Mines 8–3
2010 Colorado Mines 9–3
2011 Colorado Mines 8–3
2012 Colorado Mines 6–5
2013 Colorado Mines 8–3
2014 Colorado Mines 10–2

You morons keep bringing up the James Madison program. Are you willfully ignorant or truly clueless? I can't tell. I'm 50/50 on Stitt, but he inherited Grandpa Delaney's recruits. James Madison coach inherited a Big 10 offensive and defensive line, and an NFL running back. Are those like comparisons?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[sdk.catfish]

Post by horribilisfan8184 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:38 pm
James Madison won the old fashioned way, heavy on FBS transfers. Stitt's recruits were subject to extreme academic standards and performance, not athletic prowess. His opponents always had better athletes. That he didn't always have the D-II player of the year at QB had something to do with it too.

Your follow-up makes my point. There are other factors to success than having your own recruits which was your original premise and you are now trying to walk back. If you could only think more holistically instead of with your heart or other parts of your body. It is coaching, talent of athletes, attitude, and a good portion of luck and probably a lot of other factors that produce a memorable season. It isn't as simple as in five years and you have your own recruits so here comes the success. And it is very unlikely that Stitt will have the FCS player of the year a QB anytime soon. If some of you could just take a step back and just let it play out it might ease your pain. 2017 may be a great season and I hope it is. But if not, and I really don't give a crap whether you don't like the James Madison example, there are first year coaches that succeed remarkably well and change doesn't bother me in the least.

 

[AZGrizFan]

As....you lost me. I thought the Defense is a segment of Stitts team and overall responsibility? Or do you judge Stitt only on the performance of the Offense?

Yes. But he HAS a D-Coord. He doesn't have an O-Coord. See the difference? What I'm saying is that I believe this year the O will perform measurably better, but I'm not sure about the D (because of scheme, not necessarily talent)

 

[Spanky]

Thanks, AZ! We all hope you are correct and the Griz have a great year!!

 

[sdk.catfish]

You morons keep bringing up the James Madison program. Are you willfully ignorant or truly clueless? I can't tell. I'm 50/50 on Stitt, but he inherited Grandpa Delaney's recruits. James Madison coach inherited a Big 10 offensive and defensive line, and an NFL running back. Are those like comparisons?

Again, you fail to address the question of whether this is just a recruit thing or if there are more complex things such as being able to bring 60 plus young men together to build the foundation of a football dynasty. I haven't brought this up before but if Haslam had wanted a D2 coach with proven success at winning national championships he needed to go no further than 125 miles east to Helena where Mike VanDiest has won five. But no, he apparently wanted the hyped, and a lot of it self-hyped, glamour of offensive genius Bob Stitt. Time to put up or shut up. Either the offensive genius, with his own recruits, makes us proud or dies on his own sword. But I'm just not one who considers the cost benefit of giving a coach 5 years outweighs past performance which includes no national championships and a mediocre seasonal/playoff record.

 

[uofmman1122]

You morons keep bringing up the James Madison program. Are you willfully ignorant or truly clueless? I can't tell. I'm 50/50 on Stitt, but he inherited Grandpa Delaney's recruits. James Madison coach inherited a Big 10 offensive and defensive line, and an NFL running back. Are those like comparisons?

Again, you fail to address the question of whether this is just a recruit thing or if there are more complex things such as being able to bring 60 plus young men together to build the foundation of a football dynasty. I haven't brought this up before but if Haslam had wanted a D2 coach with proven success at winning national championships he needed to go no further than 125 miles east to Helena where Mike VanDiest has won five. But no, he apparently wanted the hyped, and a lot of it self-hyped, glamour of offensive genius Bob Stitt. Time to put up or shut up. Either the offensive genius, with his own recruits, makes us proud or dies on his own sword. But I'm just not one who considers the cost benefit of giving a coach 5 years outweighs past performance which includes no national championships and a mediocre seasonal/playoff record.

Oh god, not the Van Diest bullshit again.

You know he went 4-6 the last two years, right?

Also, NAIA is not D2.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

Are MVD threads going to be the new move up threads?

 

[sdk.catfish]

by uofmman1122 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:26 pm
Oh god, not the Van Diest bullshit again.

You know he went 4-6 the last two years, right?

Also, NAIA is not D2.

I acknowledge the NAIA/D2 mistake. And somewhat like Stitt, Van Diest has had 2 down seasons after a successful one but they come after several monstrous successes that Stitt never has experienced. Do you think that Van Diest's record coaching the Griz the last two seasons would have been any better or worse that Stitt's? Would your pleasure metric have been subdued because there was a more conventional offense than bubble screen left and right? Go ahead and settle, I have no problem with that.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

by uofmman1122 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:26 pm
Oh god, not the Van Diest bullshit again.

You know he went 4-6 the last two years, right?

Also, NAIA is not D2.

I acknowledge the NAIA/D2 mistake. And somewhat like Stitt, Van Diest has had 2 down seasons after a successful one but they come after several monstrous successes that Stitt never has experienced. Do you think that Van Diest's record coaching the Griz the last two seasons would have been any better or worse that Stitt's? Would your pleasure metric have been subdued because there was a more conventional offense than bubble screen left and right? Go ahead and settle, I have no problem with that.

There are a couple reasons why MVD didn't get either the UM or MSU job, and none of it had to do with wins and losses.