Death of the WAC, Opportunity for Summit to Sponsor Football

[ElrodGrizzly]

You aren’t aware that rarely we get a FBS level recruit? Don’t you realize that they don’t want to play in a FCS conference?

And if we went FBS, I just don't think that we suddenly have access to better recruits. We are a small town in Montana that is hard to fly into. We aren't going to suddenly start having a bunch of fast kids from Florida or big old boys from Nebraska knocking down our door just because we went FBS. Idaho didn't go FBS and suddenly have a huge influx of talent.

Look at JMU. They were in a stronger FCS position than we were, they are better funded, and they are closer to MUCH larger metro areas with more young athletes. They went to the FBS, had one good year, and have crashed and burned.

Teams like JMU and Sam Houston aren't playing for anything meaningful.

I would rather have a chance at an FCS championship than have my biggest hope to be playing against San Diego State for the Mountain West conference championship.

I'll leave the conversation there, since we are probably both going to just keep repeating ourselves.

 

[406football]

Elrod knows this. He also knows " One reason is we are recruiting athletes that have the same talent level as the other Big Sky schools. More talented players reject FCS schools. " The fact is we are not dominate - Elrod knows this also. Elrod is a UM insider. There are a few of those posters here.

Where would we be getting these high level FBS recruits from? what is our pipeline in that arena?

 

[mthoopsfan]

And if we went FBS, I just don't think that we suddenly have access to better recruits. We are a small town in Montana that is hard to fly into. We aren't going to suddenly start having a bunch of fast kids from Florida or big old boys from Nebraska knocking down our door just because we went FBS. Idaho didn't go FBS and suddenly have a huge influx of talent.

Look at JMU. They were in a stronger FCS position than we were, they are better funded, and they are closer to MUCH larger metro areas with more young athletes. They went to the FBS, had one good year, and have crashed and burned.

Teams like JMU and Sam Houston aren't playing for anything meaningful.

I would rather have a chance at an FCS championship than have my biggest hope to be playing against San Diego State for the Mountain West conference championship.

I'll leave the conversation there, since we are probably both going to just keep repeating ourselves.

We could up signs in front of the football office, saying we are now looking for top FBS recruits. We could do little ads in our media markets (and say please tell your friends in bigger/better recruiting markets).

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

We could up signs in front of the football office, saying we are now looking for top FBS recruits. We could do little ads in our media markets (and say please tell your friends in bigger/better recruiting markets).

I can see the slogan now. "Montana -- It's not THAT cold."

 

[Spanky2]

I can see the slogan now. "Montana -- It's not THAT cold."

Oh, that was cute. Have you been in Pennsylvania?

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Oh, that was cute. Have you been in Pennsylvania?

Sure have. I think you're ignoring the post I made to you that also laid out things like "hard to fly into" and "large metro areas." They have 13 million people for a population.

The point I was making is that I don't see kids from Florida or Texas or other major recruiting hotbeds suddenly thinking they would start coming to Montana just because we are FBS. There is a LOT more in the way of recruiting than just FBS/FCS designation, in my opinion. The kids we get from those places come here because FBS schools closer to home are not offering them.

Just because we become FBS doesn't mean that a kid from Florida with FBS talent would suddenly want to come here. We would be getting kids on the very bottom of the recruiting tier in the FBS, and probably not all that much different of classes than what we have been getting.

Also, for the record, I'm not just trying to irritate you. Just having an honest conversation.

 

[406football]

Oh, that was cute. Have you been in Pennsylvania?

Pennsylvania has nothing to do with Montana regarding recruiting. I would think you would know that Pennsylvania is much larger than Montana.

 

[Spanky2]

Pennsylvania has nothing to do with Montana regarding recruiting. I would think you would know that Pennsylvania is much larger than Montana.

I was replying to Elrods comment about the cold. Please see his post. Also, I lived in Pennsylvania.

 

[Spanky2]

Sure have. I think you're ignoring the post I made to you that also laid out things like "hard to fly into" and "large metro areas." They have 13 million people for a population.

The point I was making is that I don't see kids from Florida or Texas or other major recruiting hotbeds suddenly thinking they would start coming to Montana just because we are FBS. There is a LOT more in the way of recruiting than just FBS/FCS designation, in my opinion. The kids we get from those places come here because FBS schools closer to home are not offering them.

Just because we become FBS doesn't mean that a kid from Florida with FBS talent would suddenly want to come here. We would be getting kids on the very bottom of the recruiting tier in the FBS, and probably not all that much different of classes than what we have been getting.

Also, for the record, I'm not just trying to irritate you. Just having an honest conversation.

Utah State is FBS, Logan is rural and cold. How do they get recruits? I think you know we would get good recruits and be competitive in the Mountain West. Success will depend more on our coach as there are many good kids that would love to play in Montana. I went thru the recruiting process with two kids. Never did weather become a factor or the isolation. It was the school, coach and conference in that order.

 

[ElrodGrizzly]

Utah State is FBS, Logan is rural and cold. How do they get recruits? I think you know we would get good recruits and be competitive in the Mountain West. Success will depend more on our coach as there are many good kids that would love to play in Montana. I went thru the recruiting process with two kids. Never did weather become a factor or the isolation. It was the school, coach and conference in that order.

I don't know nearly enough about your anecdotal situation to speak on it. I'm sure if a kid grew up in Montana, any other weather would be great.

I don't think anyone can "know" that we would get much better recruits or be competitive in the Mountain West. It is certainly something to talk about, and that is what I'm doing with you.

Utah State is a GREAT example of what I am talking about. I think that was the perfect example for you to pick. They have a much bigger population than Montana. They are an hour from a MAJOR airport in SLC (You keep ignoring my point about how hard it is for far away families to get to Missoula to watch games). They went 4-8 overall last year and 3-4 in the Mountain West. Utah State has been in the Mountain West for 12 years, and won the conference one time.

That is what I think Montana would regularly do. Occasionally compete for the Mountain West title once a decade or so, and never compete for a national title. Keep in mind, you keep talking about how weak and untalented the FCS is, but we aren't dominating that current level.

I don't view "being competitive in the Mountain West" and never nationally competitive as nearly as enjoyable as being competitive for an FCS championship. Personally, I think that your belief that we would suddenly be getting a lot of higher level recruits isn't realistic. We would get some, but I think our recruiting classes would be roughly the same.

I'd again point you to the examples of other top FCS teams that have moved up. JMU had a strong football program when they left the FCS. They get 53 MILLION DOLLARS in athletic fees from their students every year. After their one good year, they went 4-4 in their conference last year. If we moved up, Montana will never compete for a national football championship in the FBS as it is currently constructed. Period. We would be, at best, playing to "be competitive" in the Mountain West.

 

[Spanky2]

I don't know nearly enough about your anecdotal situation to speak on it. I'm sure if a kid grew up in Montana, any other weather would be great.

I don't think anyone can "know" that we would get much better recruits or be competitive in the Mountain West. It is certainly something to talk about, and that is what I'm doing with you.

Utah State is a GREAT example of what I am talking about. I think that was the perfect example for you to pick. They have a much bigger population than Montana. They are an hour from a MAJOR airport in SLC (You keep ignoring my point about how hard it is for far away families to get to Missoula to watch games). They went 4-8 overall last year and 3-4 in the Mountain West. Utah State has been in the Mountain West for 12 years, and won the conference one time.

That is what I think Montana would regularly do. Occasionally compete for the Mountain West title once a decade or so, and never compete for a national title. Keep in mind, you keep talking about how weak and untalented the FCS is, but we aren't dominating that current level.

I don't view "being competitive in the Mountain West" and never nationally competitive as nearly as enjoyable as being competitive for an FCS championship. Personally, I think that your belief that we would suddenly be getting a lot of higher level recruits isn't realistic. We would get some, but I think our recruiting classes would be roughly the same.

I'd again point you to the examples of other top FCS teams that have moved up. JMU had a strong football program when they left the FCS. They get 53 MILLION DOLLARS in athletic fees from their students every year. After their one good year, they went 4-4 in their conference last year. If we moved up, Montana will never compete for a national football championship in the FBS as it is currently constructed. Period. We would be, at best, playing to "be competitive" in the Mountain West.

How often has Montana won the FCS championship? How many times in the last 10 years has Montana won the Big Sky Championship? We aren’t exactly a football powerhouse in FCS that you seem to reference. Further, you continue to mention the FCS national championship as a prime reason to remain FCS. Is it really a national championship or just a division championship? How many people other than those involved actually know or care about it? Do parents of recruits and their coaches believe the Griz are Division 1 or Division 2? Are you proud to have UM associated with Eastern Washington, Portland State and Northern Colorado? You can bet parents and high school coaches talk about the conference.

 

[oldngrizzly]

We could up signs in front of the football office, saying we are now looking for top FBS recruits. We could do little ads in our media markets (and say please tell your friends in bigger/better recruiting markets).

You could try it but #1 we don't get that caliber of player who would read it because they are not interested. Just like the better players we do get leave because the sign reads " We are the FCS and if you truly want to go pro this is not the place for you."

 

[Hoops watcher]

Sounds like you have accepted UM being a member of the Big Sky conference with an affiliation with leading schools like Eastern Washington, Northern Colorado and Portland State. The last I checked, our school is the University of Montana, not Miles Junior College, Rocky Mountain College or Northern Montana. UM should be affiliated with Utah State, Wyoming, Colorado State which would reflect our traditional peers.

Our peers in the remaining MWC (I agree with the assessment) don't seem to want anything to do with us so that's a bit of a problem. The ideal solution is AZ's (think it was Az) Hi Line group with the Dakotas, ID, Cats and the best few of the Big Sky rest. Peers and makes sense geography wise. The CFP playoff field and upcoming TV contract negotiations could very well result in a nuclear option scenario with the Big Bois pulling out of the NCAA if recent articles are to be believed.

 

[Hoops watcher]

I don't think we would be a Mountain West punching bag, even if we moved up right now, I think we could compete rather favorably with those teams, especially if we had access to 85 scholarships (and could afford it). There are, like I said, just too many prohibiting factors right now to see how it would work.

I will say, if/when the big schism happens, UM should do everything in its power to hitch itself (and MSU) to the Dakota schools. Those 6 schools would be the basis of a very formidable G5 (or whatever it ends up being called) conference in both Football and Basketball.

Biggest factor is the MWC doesn't want us and our lack of population. They already have Wyoming.

 

[Hoops watcher]

And if we went FBS, I just don't think that we suddenly have access to better recruits. We are a small town in Montana that is hard to fly into. We aren't going to suddenly start having a bunch of fast kids from Florida or big old boys from Nebraska knocking down our door just because we went FBS. Idaho didn't go FBS and suddenly have a huge influx of talent.

Look at JMU. They were in a stronger FCS position than we were, they are better funded, and they are closer to MUCH larger metro areas with more young athletes. They went to the FBS, had one good year, and have crashed and burned.

Teams like JMU and Sam Houston aren't playing for anything meaningful.

I would rather have a chance at an FCS championship than have my biggest hope to be playing against San Diego State for the Mountain West conference championship.

I'll leave the conversation there, since we are probably both going to just keep repeating ourselves.

SDSU is going to the Half PAC in case it slipped your mind.

 

[flowtowngriz]

If we stay in the big sky, the program isn't going to grow. Harlem has even referred to this. I might be paraphrasing this but he said what does the big sky have to offer the Montana's to stay. It is not what is best for the conference but what is the best for the school.
Stay in the big sky and survive. We will keep playing for a natty but still be irrelevant nationally. Which our recruiting regional and tv audience. Less eyes on the school, harder to get recruits and out of state students to attend the U. Who pay at least twice as much for tuition then in state.

Make it known we want to move to fbs. And IF we get invited then we will get lots more national coverage in all major sports. Which in return bring in more out of state students, larger pool of recruiting, play better competition at wa-griz and possibly win say mwc. Which in 2026 best teams will be unlv, Wyoming, or air force.

 

[MikeyGriz]

If we stay in the big sky, the program isn't going to grow. Harlem has even referred to this. I might be paraphrasing this but he said what does the big sky have to offer the Montana's to stay. It is not what is best for the conference but what is the best for the school.
Stay in the big sky and survive. We will keep playing for a natty but still be irrelevant nationally. Which our recruiting regional and tv audience. Less eyes on the school, harder to get recruits and out of state students to attend the U. Who pay at least twice as much for tuition then in state.

Make it known we want to move to fbs. And IF we get invited then we will get lots more national coverage in all major sports. Which in return bring in more out of state students, larger pool of recruiting, play better competition at wa-griz and possibly win say mwc. Which in 2026 best teams will be unlv, Wyoming, or air force.

And we would still be irrelevant nationally.............

 

[mthoopsfan]

And we would still be irrelevant nationally.............

And be financially burdened as a school, and perhaps severely hurt the football program by not being as successful.

 

[Spanky2]

And be financially burdened as a school, and perhaps severely hurt the football program by not being as successful.

There is the possibility that we could negotiate terms with a new conference that would remove any financial burden. As for success, how do we measure that? In my view, we would compete well in a new conference playing against better teams. Our entire athletic department would benefit as the current onus of the FCS designation would be removed.

 

[Hoops watcher]

Make it known we want to move to fbs. And IF we get invited then we will get lots more national coverage in all major sports. Which in return bring in more out of state students, larger pool of recruiting, play better competition at wa-griz and possibly win say mwc. Which in 2026 best teams will be unlv, Wyoming, or air force.

Careful you don't dislocate something with that reach.....