Daum

[LovinD_laney]

"Einhorn is Finkle!! Finkle is Einhorn!!"

They're actually not a duo...

 

[Buttegrizzle]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

Why do I picture PR following you around trying to eavesdrop all those conversations?

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

Why do I picture PR following you around trying to eavesdrop all those conversations?

PR doesn't have to eavesdrop.....he is invited to every conversation that may happen between anyone in the know, or by the subject of interest. He has sources and connections better than J Edgar Hoover!

 

[EverettGriz]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

X1,000,000

 

[Buttegrizzle]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

Why do I picture PR following you around trying to eavesdrop all those conversations?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I know. I felt like doing a PR-style post, just mentioning that I saw somebody who knows something.

 

[PlayerRep]

Looks like ButtleG and 420 can now be added to the who's who list.

My guess is that GrizRule has gotten good information.

 

[grizcountry420]

 

[rgrizfan]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

[zengriz]

...don't let it go 17...
...give it a rest...
...dudes...
...give it a rest...

... :wtf: ...

 

[grizindabox]

...don't let it go 17...
...give it a rest...
...dudes...
...give it a rest...

... :wtf: ...

so are pages determined by number of posts or length of posts.....if length it will only take 1 more rant from 75 to push it past 20....

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

According to you he isn't having life problems.....

Now, since I've specifically stated, several times, that he must have problems much larger than being mad at a coach to justify leaving the team, with that much talent, your comment is pretty much an outright lie, isn't it?

No, it's pretty much 100% correct, everyone else gets it but your sick CNN programmed left wing mind is defective.

#thanksforplaying

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

You know you're striking nerves, 75, when you've got yahoos like Hoooked, HelenaHand and Badlands chasing you, with Alpha firing a few potshots too. It's funny to watching H, H and B be unable to land a punch, and making themselves look silly, running around in circles, contradicting themselves. A real who's who of posters.

Actually you know how effed up you argument is if PR is the only one pumping your ego and massaging your cokc.

Boom

#endthread

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Gary and Ace duo make a nice couple........

 

[UMGriz75]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

One reason I always take the Players side until proven otherwise is the fact that Coaches often enough look past the individual circumstances of the players; you give the players lots of room in situations like this but this thread, like many, brings out the haters -- lazy, coddled,etc. -- disgusting conclusions.

Daum left, I suspect I know exactly why because the symptoms are obvious enough and I've dealt with them plenty over the years as a biochemist with an interest in the body chemistry involved, and on the practical side as coach and instructor. They also deserve their privacy, which four nitwits have pretty much destroyed with their jumping up and down, "I Know! I Know!" and extensive hinting and signalling at just how much they know.

The problem with mouthy coaches is precisely because of the environment they create by trying to be the "tough guy." One of my side projects is to peer-review scientific journal submissions, and one of those journals is "Psychological Reports." There is much study done on athlete behaviors, mood states, and competitive environments.

One of the problems of dealing with people of this age group, especially the males, is anticipating and acting appropriately on their "signals" because they are often unable or unwilling to "signal." On the other hand, these things are often "triggered" and the triggers themselves have to be identified, especially if they "are likely to cause harm."

It has been over 25 years ago that I had my first experience with a student/athlete, as a for instance, suffering clinical depression, a common affliction in the male age group and particularly prevalent in athletes. He came to me after one early morning workout and asked if I had "a few minutes."

I said, "sure."

Now, I didn't know this kid well. He was 19, tall, blond blue-eyed, handsome, athletic. Surfer kid from California. The kind of kid you could imagine that, if he had any problems, it was getting away from the girls long enough to study. But, he was doing a great job in training drills; his athleticism remarkable. he was always genial and friendly during sessions, but he had started to miss classes recently, not that for college kids in the early morning that is a sign of anything except a college kid in the early morning. I completely did not expect what I heard next.

However, without a maudlin description of it, he complained about being depressed, and he was doing research to see what he could do about it. He had read up on it, and had been taking St. John's Wort, but it didn't seem to be doing any good, and he didn't know what else to do.

He began to cry.

Well, shit, I wasn't prepared for that, and he was terribly embarrassed that he had broken down like that; it obviously caught him by surprise. The kid was clearly in a great deal of pain.

The University of Montana did not have any protocols for stuff like that at the time, but since it happened to be a study area of mine, it was immediately obvious what to do. I told him to take some time and get composed, go shower and change. I went into the Field House offices to use Gary Hughes' phone to call Curry Health Center and make sure they had someone available to immediately begin counseling and possibly diagnosis. I said I didn't think suicidal was the stage yet, but I'm not the expert, I say the kid needs to begin help NOW. I called Carrie Brunnel. She was secretary of HHP at the time, I knew her well and importantly, that she was the spouse of Ron Brunnel who was in charge of Residence Halls. She knew exactly what I what I needed, and that was to make sure the kid was under close watch by the RAs when he returned to the dorms.

Well, so within about 15 minutes time on Gary's phone, we got a whole protocol set up of counseling, 24-hour watch, and frequent checks. I went back, got the kid, walked him over to Curry Health Center, and got him into counseling. Long story short, the kid made it through, graduated with honors, and I still get a note from him every now and then. I don't know why he picked me to talk to about it that morning. It may have been an upbringing that coaches "knew" about these things. I don't know. Generally, I put them through their paces, tell war stories and pitch needed improvements. I don't try and get to be their friends. By the end of the semester, I "might" know their names.

So when a coach complains that an athlete isn't "acting right" or "not performing up to snuff," or is being "lazy," I'm generally the first to point out "be careful." Athletes score higher on things like clinical depression, and that is ironically because exercise produces endorphins which is a natural "high." So kids with some level of clinical depression that can will often become dedicated athletes -- it is an effective self-treatment. But, you can't pump that endorphin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and for some, the in-between times can get pretty dark.

Too, as an offset to the effect of the endorphins are things that cause actual depression -- a sense of recurring failure, coach anger, social isolation. So sports can be a partial cure; they can also create conditions exacerbating the condition. Transitions after their daily sport culture often expose theretofore repressed symptoms of depression.

As I have trained plenty of assistant coaches over many years, this is something we always discuss and take seriously. I often find these coaches admitting to these feelings during their athletic careers. The "old days" of coaching by intimidation may still have some application, but if it works at its best margin, it can only be by a carefully trained coaching eye watching, always watching, for the symptoms.

It was obvious to me at the outset, and I said so, that there was more going on there than meets the eye, there simply had to be. I am not pretending to know what it is and I did think that the four idiots making it there life's fulfillment to Know what it Is, and that it will somehow vindicate Them or Somebody, is just patently egos talking. Only the idiots claiming it was laziness would not realize "something else" was going on there. And people need to be very respectful of that, not shouting it from the rooftops like these jerks.

Because, that is independent of coaching behaviors. That a kid does have "other" problems has nothing to do with whether or not there is a coaching behaviors problem. It surely does not absolve coaches of responsibility for their behaviors -- which seems to be the false argument put forward.

The facts of concern to the public are public concerns: coaching behaviors. Holding a kid's private problems hostage to a defense of coaching behaviors is simply shameful.

The uproar that resulted on this thread was the fact that posters had claimed, specifically, that his departure had nothing to do with the UM football program or team. It wasn't important to them why he departed, only that the departure did not implicate coaches. That was the specific agenda.

Dalton Daum then chose to make a public statement. The problem is, he was pretty specific. "I wasn't happy there."

After that, he was accused of only "telling half the story," that he was "confused," that it's tough for a kid "to make public statements," that he was "vague," and that he actually meant the opposite of what he said, indeed, that by using the word "there," didn't he "really" mean, "not there?" That he couldn't possibly have meant the "UM football program, team, players, or coaches?"

It doesn't matter. It's his business although it is just amazing how many armchair quarterbacks and fanboys made it their business, and they admit to doing so. Waiving the red shirt around now screaming "I Know! I Know!" has nothing to do with the legitimate public interest in coaching success and how to get there through appropriate coaching behaviors.

As I noted at the outset, the significance of this for public discussion purposes is whether or not this is part of a pattern of departures that are resulting from inappropriate coaching behaviors and attitudes.

That remains true.

The rest is somebody's private business and needs to remain so.

 

[reinell30]

Just imagine how long this thread would be/get if this Daum kid would have even played one snap? WOW!

 

[Spanky]

75....very interesting. Thank you.

 

[NorthEndZoneDan]

Just imagine how long this thread would be/get if this Daum kid would have even played one snap? WOW!

we might make 17 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zengriz]

...the only thing longer and more boring...
...than 90 per cent of this thread...
...frickn' bowling season...

... :argue: ...

 

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

In the past 48 hours, by shear coincidence, I have talked to one of Daum's parents, his high school coach, Arie Grey and his high school QBs (Cook's) mom. You know what I asked them about Dalton's decision to leave the team? Exactly squat. You know why? It's none of my business. Leave it alone. Lock the thread.

One reason I always take the Players side until proven otherwise is the fact that Coaches often enough look past the individual circumstances of the players; you give the players lots of room in situations like this but this thread, like many, brings out the haters -- lazy, coddled,etc. -- disgusting conclusions.

Daum left, I suspect I know exactly why because the symptoms are obvious enough and I've dealt with them plenty over the years as a biochemist with an interest in the body chemistry involved, and on the practical side as coach and instructor. They also deserve their privacy, which four nitwits have pretty much destroyed with their jumping up and down, "I Know! I Know!" and extensive hinting and signalling at just how much they know.

The problem with mouthy coaches is precisely because of the environment they create by trying to be the "tough guy." One of my side projects is to peer-review scientific journal submissions, and one of those journals is "Psychological Reports." There is much study done on athlete behaviors, mood states, and competitive environments.

One of the problems of dealing with people of this age group, especially the males, is anticipating and acting appropriately on their "signals" because they are often unable or unwilling to "signal." On the other hand, these things are often "triggered" and the triggers themselves have to be identified, especially if they "are likely to cause harm."

It has been over 25 years ago that I had my first experience with a student/athlete, as a for instance, suffering clinical depression, a common affliction in the male age group and particularly prevalent in athletes. He came to me after one early morning workout and asked if I had "a few minutes."

I said, "sure."

Now, I didn't know this kid well. He was 19, tall, blond blue-eyed, handsome, athletic. Surfer kid from California. The kind of kid you could imagine that, if he had any problems, it was getting away from the girls long enough to study. But, he was doing a great job in training drills; his athleticism remarkable. he was always genial and friendly during sessions, but he had started to miss classes recently, not that for college kids in the early morning that is a sign of anything except a college kid in the early morning. I completely did not expect what I heard next.

However, without a maudlin description of it, he complained about being depressed, and he was doing research to see what he could do about it. He had read up on it, and had been taking St. John's Wort, but it didn't seem to be doing any good, and he didn't know what else to do.

He began to cry.

Well, shit, I wasn't prepared for that, and he was terribly embarrassed that he had broken down like that; it obviously caught him by surprise. The kid was clearly in a great deal of pain.

The University of Montana did not have any protocols for stuff like that at the time, but since it happened to be a study area of mine, it was immediately obvious what to do. I told him to take some time and get composed, go shower and change. I went into the Field House offices to use Gary Hughes' phone to call Curry Health Center and make sure they had someone available to immediately begin counseling and possibly diagnosis. I said I didn't think suicidal was the stage yet, but I'm not the expert, I say the kid needs to begin help NOW. I called Carrie Brunnel. She was secretary of HHP at the time, I knew her well and importantly, that she was the spouse of Ron Brunnel who was in charge of Residence Halls. She knew exactly what I what I needed, and that was to make sure the kid was under close watch by the RAs when he returned to the dorms.

Well, so within about 15 minutes time on Gary's phone, we got a whole protocol set up of counseling, 24-hour watch, and frequent checks. I went back, got the kid, walked him over to Curry Health Center, and got him into counseling. Long story short, the kid made it through, graduated with honors, and I still get a note from him every now and then. I don't know why he picked me to talk to about it that morning. It may have been an upbringing that coaches "knew" about these things. I don't know. Generally, I put them through their paces, tell war stories and pitch needed improvements. I don't try and get to be their friends. By the end of the semester, I "might" know their names.

So when a coach complains that an athlete isn't "acting right" or "not performing up to snuff," or is being "lazy," I'm generally the first to point out "be careful." Athletes score higher on things like clinical depression, and that is ironically because exercise produces endorphins which is a natural "high." So kids with some level of clinical depression that can will often become dedicated athletes -- it is an effective self-treatment. But, you can't pump that endorphin 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and for some, the in-between times can get pretty dark.

Too, as an offset to the effect of the endorphins are things that cause actual depression -- a sense of recurring failure, coach anger, social isolation. So sports can be a partial cure; they can also create conditions exacerbating the condition. Transitions after their daily sport culture often expose theretofore repressed symptoms of depression.

As I have trained plenty of assistant coaches over many years, this is something we always discuss and take seriously. I often find these coaches admitting to these feelings during their athletic careers. The "old days" of coaching by intimidation may still have some application, but if it works at its best margin, it can only be by a carefully trained coaching eye watching, always watching, for the symptoms.

It was obvious to me at the outset, and I said so, that there was more going on there than meets the eye, there simply had to be. I am not pretending to know what it is and I did think that the four idiots making it there life's fulfillment to Know what it Is, and that it will somehow vindicate Them or Somebody, is just patently egos talking. Only the idiots claiming it was laziness would not realize "something else" was going on there. And people need to be very respectful of that, not shouting it from the rooftops like these jerks.

Because, that is independent of coaching behaviors. That a kid does have "other" problems has nothing to do with whether or not there is a coaching behaviors problem. It surely does not absolve coaches of responsibility for their behaviors -- which seems to be the false argument put forward.

The facts of concern to the public are public concerns: coaching behaviors. Holding a kid's private problems hostage to a defense of coaching behaviors is simply shameful.

The uproar that resulted on this thread was the fact that posters had claimed, specifically, that his departure had nothing to do with the UM football program or team. It wasn't important to them why he departed, only that the departure did not implicate coaches. That was the specific agenda.

Dalton Daum then chose to make a public statement. The problem is, he was pretty specific. "I wasn't happy there."

After that, he was accused of only "telling half the story," that he was "confused," that it's tough for a kid "to make public statements," that he was "vague," and that he actually meant the opposite of what he said, indeed, that by using the word "there," didn't he "really" mean, "not there?" That he couldn't possibly have meant the "UM football program, team, players, or coaches?"

It doesn't matter. It's his business although it is just amazing how many armchair quarterbacks and fanboys made it their business, and they admit to doing so. Waiving the red shirt around now screaming "I Know! I Know!" has nothing to do with the legitimate public interest in coaching success and how to get there through appropriate coaching behaviors.

As I noted at the outset, the significance of this for public discussion purposes is whether or not this is part of a pattern of departures that are resulting from inappropriate coaching behaviors and attitudes.

That remains true.

The rest is somebody's private business and needs to remain so.

I made it to..."one reason" and stopped reading.

Is he still going?