Consultant who helped elect Obama is working on recruitment for University of Montana — for free

[horribilisfan8184]

You can walk from the UM campus and within minutes be downtown at concerts, bars, food, music, hiking and mountain biking trails, floating the river, surfing, fly fishing.....wtf are you talking about?

As far as proximity for things to do...UM is waaaay ahead of many universities.

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

I have no dog in this fight, but I have to admit as a freshman at the U of M in 85' I was fascinatingly confused by the fact that there was no on campus pub. I don't think you could run a university in the civilized world with out at least a Student Society Pub and usually one or two others; Engineering Society, Education faculty, Student Union.

According to a recent Kaimin article UM has one at the golf course in the middle of married student housing that loses money hand over fist.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

… I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know?
…

... Perhaps you had a wonderful time while you were a student here. Kids today don't view their potential college experience through the same lens as your memories are for a number of reasons. I can only address what swayed my children and their classmate's perceptions about this school and the surrounding community.
...

We don’t have much of a dog in this race in terms of sending (or not) a student to the University of Montana (our link is through now-retired faculty). So this post is not meant to be argumentative, it’s just a matter of curiosity.

The UM “activities” calendar seems to offer a reasonable schedule of events … I cannot, of course, judge how entertaining, interesting or otherwise worthwhile the events might be. When I look at a Google map, I see parks, recreational facilities, plenty of restaurants, at least one theater, and other off-campus “stuff” -- all within what I would consider walking distance. (Of course, what I would consider “walking distance” might not fly with today’s young people.) Now, I will grant that there’s no big mall anywhere close to the campus, so perhaps that’s the problem. Other than that, from a “traditional viewpoint, the range of things to do seems pretty reasonable.

But the “nothing to do there … boring” comment obviously calls that into question. So I am genuinely curious: What do today’s prospective students want from a campus/community … other than a good education? Do they even know, or is it mostly a matter of “feel”?

It's hard fix a problem when (1) as you suggest, you're in denial that there is a problem, and (2) you really don't know what the problem is.

To me, the outdoor recreational opportunities in and around Missoula are not being stressed. I don't see anything that shows all the incredible mountain biking, white water rafting, fishing, rock climbing, skiing, and AFFORDABLE off campus housing really stressed by the recruiting propaganda. The public transportation available to all the kids are not being utilized in the initial sales pitches.

May is the next regents meeting if I'm correct. The internal reorganization will be presented then relative curriculum and a new vision. Will it matter to those high school seniors who have already decided where they will be going to school next September? It's a shame a university in this time does not have the capacity to effect change faster than what is going on here. Why could Waded turn that school upside down in her first year there and the powers that be refuse to budge here?

I'll say this: My own children and their high school classmates (even those who did attend here last fall but transferred) felt their education was marginalized by supposedly superior backgrounds within the faculty.

I don't like the word arrogance, but there is an air about many of those who come into contact with the kids for some reason.

For me, admissions, financial aid, housing and student counseling services could use an infusion of new and creative minds. For whatever reason, these areas bothered the kids a lot. I've had coffee with other parents and their kids left after one semester.

I'm done with this I hope, but what it seems to me, many of the faculty feel the kids are an impediment to their psuedoscience research

 

[AZGrizFan]

When I look at the frequent posters here, I notice there's many individuals posting who are in fact much older than I am and the prevailing theme seems to be pointing fingers at what happened in the past and virtually no thoughts as to what a kid looks for in the college environment as evidenced by this:
http://www.umt.edu/institutional-research/sp2018_census.pdf

What can a kid do within walking distance of a campus here? I'm not saying you need a north campus like in Athens, Georgia where it's wall to wall bars, dances scenes, continual concerts, etc., but what the hell can a kid do here anymore? Even this site is filled with a sense of "Look at what I accomplished with my life" attitude instead of looking at why a kid would choose to go someplace else. With all the great research this place is famous for, why can't our scholarly "researchers" figure out what a kid looks for in a college experience?

And to say the graduate school numbers are "trending" up is a huge skew of data.

There are people who can actually help make this a great college experience for the kids again.

You can walk from the UM campus and within minutes be downtown at concerts, bars, food, music, hiking and mountain biking trails, floating the river, surfing, fly fishing.....wtf are you talking about?

As far as proximity for things to do...UM is waaaay ahead of many universities.

Thanks...I was sitting here shaking my head at his post... :lol:

 

[AZGrizFan]

… I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know?
…

... Perhaps you had a wonderful time while you were a student here. Kids today don't view their potential college experience through the same lens as your memories are for a number of reasons. I can only address what swayed my children and their classmate's perceptions about this school and the surrounding community.
...

We don’t have much of a dog in this race in terms of sending (or not) a student to the University of Montana (our link is through now-retired faculty). So this post is not meant to be argumentative, it’s just a matter of curiosity.

The UM “activities” calendar seems to offer a reasonable schedule of events … I cannot, of course, judge how entertaining, interesting or otherwise worthwhile the events might be. When I look at a Google map, I see parks, recreational facilities, plenty of restaurants, at least one theater, and other off-campus “stuff” -- all within what I would consider walking distance. (Of course, what I would consider “walking distance” might not fly with today’s young people.) Now, I will grant that there’s no big mall anywhere close to the campus, so perhaps that’s the problem. Other than that, from a “traditional viewpoint, the range of things to do seems pretty reasonable.

But the “nothing to do there … boring” comment obviously calls that into question. So I am genuinely curious: What do today’s prospective students want from a campus/community … other than a good education? Do they even know, or is it mostly a matter of “feel”?

It's hard fix a problem when (1) as you suggest, you're in denial that there is a problem, and (2) you really don't know what the problem is.

To me, the outdoor recreational opportunities in and around Missoula are not being stressed. I don't see anything that shows all the incredible mountain biking, white water rafting, fishing, rock climbing, skiing, and AFFORDABLE off campus housing really stressed by the recruiting propaganda. The public transportation available to all the kids are not being utilized in the initial sales pitches.
supposedly superior backgrounds within the faculty.

OK, now I KNOW you’re smoking crack. Literally EVERY commercial for UM is nothing BUT rock climbing, rafting, hiking, mountain biking and granolas. That’s ALL they can sell, FFS.

 

[IdaGriz01]

To me, the outdoor recreational opportunities in and around Missoula are not being stressed. I don't see anything that shows all the incredible mountain biking, white water rafting, fishing, rock climbing, skiing, and AFFORDABLE off campus housing really stressed by the recruiting propaganda. The public transportation available to all the kids are not being utilized in the initial sales pitches.

... I'll say this: My own children and their high school classmates (even those who did attend here last fall but transferred) felt their education was marginalized by supposedly superior backgrounds within the faculty.

I don't like the word arrogance, but there is an air about many of those who come into contact with the kids for some reason.

For me, admissions, financial aid, housing and student counseling services could use an infusion of new and creative minds. For whatever reason, these areas bothered the kids a lot. I've had coffee with other parents and their kids left after one semester.

I'm done with this I hope, but what it seems to me, many of the faculty feel the kids are an impediment to their pseudoscience research

Interesting point raised in your first paragraph. I suppose it should be no surprise that past ineptitude has failed to exploit what seems like an obvious opportunity. I see they do have an "Outdoor Program" on the UM web page, but the presentations seems clunky and un-appealing.

Your other point about a "superior" attitude among the faculty should be extremely troubling to the powers-that-be. But that may be a two-way street.

I have many contacts among STEM professors. Most of them -- even ones who are heavily into research -- are eager to teach young minds. However, almost without exception, they are appalled at how poorly prepared many (most?) in-coming students are. And they say they hear the same refrain from faculty outside the science-math subjects (like English, history and social studies). That's why so many freshmen end up in remedial math, English or science classes. (Which, studies show, can have a disastrous psychological impact on those students ... in some schools, nine out of ten of those students will never graduate.)

But even with students who squeak by, and stay out of the remedial classes, profs find they have to "dumb down" the start of their normal classes to make a transition to what they consider college-level material. And, yes, some of them resent having to teach stuff that they think the students should have learned in high school. I suspect some of that frustration could come across as a "superior attitude" -- "You should already know this."
On the other side, studies show that many high school graduates seriously over-rate how much they know and what they have learned. (Understandable, since many were passed along from grade to grade without really achieving competence in the grade-level material.)

Am I being a curmudgeon about this? I don't think so ... the problem has been much discussed by professionals in the schools of education.

 

[SaskGriz]

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

I have no dog in this fight, but I have to admit as a freshman at the U of M in 85' I was fascinatingly confused by the fact that there was no on campus pub. I don't think you could run a university in the civilized world with out at least a Student Society Pub and usually one or two others; Engineering Society, Education faculty, Student Union.

According to a recent Kaimin article UM has one at the golf course in the middle of married student housing that loses money hand over fist.

So you can get pissed for cheap and then make out on the 18th hole, okay the problem isn't the bars it's the students.

 

[statler & waldorf]

(Understandable, since many were passed along from grade to grade without really achieving competence in the grade-level material.)

I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone who supported Obama. The University can do without this input. UM is way too left wing as it is without this POS. That being said, a comment on the poor state of pre-college education, as IdaGriz01 has outlined.

This has been going on for at least for the last 50-60 years. "Social promotion" is what it used to be called, don't know what the PC police call it nowadays. To even suggest that a student can't hack it, and should repeat the grade level, would cost a teacher his/her job. Move the kid to the next level, and 'graduate' this under prepared joke onto the world. Look at the 'graduation rate' improvement experienced since the '50s. Smoke and mirrors by administrators of school districts, aided and abetted by school boards who do not do their jobs. Montana had a policy that as long as you graduated from high school, you could be admitted to any public college/university in Montana. 'Bonehead' college classes used to be rare. Evidently, the have become the norm. Sad.

 

[sdk.catfish]

by statler & waldorf » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:20 pm

I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone who supported Obama. The University can do without this input. UM is way too left wing as it is without this POS.

Well turning down a pro-bono offer from a proven PR/Marketing firm and UM Alumni like the Messina Group makes perfect sense. After all he did work for a winning presidential campaign. But if you have a more right wing conservative PR/Marketing firm willing to work for free and provide capital then please get on board quickly. Because I don't care what political persuasion you are from if you are willing to help restore UM to where it has been academically and athletically then I"m all for it. If Statler and Waldorf aren't into that business, or you don't know some firm more conservatively inclined that will come on board with resources they are willing to donate, then perhaps its time to stfu.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know? As far as number six, I believe getting Messina involved will definitely help. Those commercials featuring Sheila last fall turned more than a few kids away--some of the high school kids laughed at them. Just like Messina was able to connect with the kids in the Obama campaign, I like to think he'll show some relevance in a UM degree by featuring successful graduates and he'll show the kids enjoying what the area has to offer. I hope so.

Seriously tell me what there is to do in Bozeman that isnt available in Missoula. Tell me how long it takes to walk from MSUs Campus to downtown Bozeman, and than do the same in Missoula. Theres plenty to do in both communities.

I just dont buy that argument whatsoever.

I've gone beyond denial, being pissed and I feel it's time to begin rebuilding this school. In the greater scheme of higher education in the state of Montana, the entire Montana University System has approximately 26k total students. Over 17k are attending college at MSU. Messina is a start.

Perhaps you had a wonderful time while you were a student here. Kids today don't view their potential college experience through the same lens as your memories are for a number of reasons. I can only address what swayed my children and their classmates perceptions about this school and the surrounding community.

Maybe you can leave Texas, get on board here and hopefully convince some of them to attend school here? Your school (I'm assuming you went to school here) is on the canvass right now. You're squabbling with me in an online forum sounds like the many conversations I've listened to among the faculty here. They actually don't believe the kids are not coming here for all the great experiences they had 20, 30, 40 years ago...

Well I've only been out of school for about 6 years, so I cant really speak to that. And if I could come back to Missoula and make a living like I do in Texas I would do it in a heartbeat.

Make certain you get your Texas pensions taken care of before you return. I returned to take care of my mother the last few years of her life and financially probably should not have but I'll never regret spending her last few years with her. Hopefully the Missoula you return to is not what I saw and experienced in the Gallatin Valley after being away for thirty years. Watch the Montana PBS documentary about Charlie Russell when you get a chance...and don't worry about the few technical issues, just listen to what the narrator has to say...

 

[statler & waldorf]

...don't like my view, sdk, tough. This left wing shit has nearly destroyed this University. I'll STFU after you do. Deal?

 

[Bozo JrCollegeofAG]

by statler & waldorf » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:20 pm

I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone who supported Obama. The University can do without this input. UM is way too left wing as it is without this POS.

Think about it this way. As Chief of Staff for the Obama campaign in '08 he as able to get a guy who's main qualification was giving a great speech elected to the presidency.

If he can do that, he can surely help get more students to UM.

 

[statler & waldorf]

Bozo...you may have something there. A bullshit artist. Hmm...

 

[Grizzoola]

by statler & waldorf » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:20 pm

I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone who supported Obama. The University can do without this input. UM is way too left wing as it is without this POS.

Well turning down a pro-bono offer from a proven PR/Marketing firm and UM Alumni like the Messina Group makes perfect sense. After all he did work for a winning presidential campaign. But if you have a more right wing conservative PR/Marketing firm willing to work for free and provide capital then please get on board quickly. Because I don't care what political persuasion you are from if you are willing to help restore UM to where it has been academically and athletically then I"m all for it. If Statler and Waldorf aren't into that business, or you don't know some firm more conservatively inclined that will come on board with resources they are willing to donate, then perhaps its time to stfu.

Seems to me MSU has accepted money from right-wingers, like the Koch Bros. I also believe Gianforte has made overtures to MSU for a building/program, etc. I agree that one's political position should make no difference in accepting help from him, but it has been an issue at MSU, if I'm not mistaken. There at least should be a requirement that the building, program, etc., not be used to promote any political, economic, etc. views. If a school senses any wish for outside control of school programs, etc., the "donation" should not be accepted.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

by statler & waldorf » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:20 pm

I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone who supported Obama. The University can do without this input. UM is way too left wing as it is without this POS.

Well turning down a pro-bono offer from a proven PR/Marketing firm and UM Alumni like the Messina Group makes perfect sense. After all he did work for a winning presidential campaign. But if you have a more right wing conservative PR/Marketing firm willing to work for free and provide capital then please get on board quickly. Because I don't care what political persuasion you are from if you are willing to help restore UM to where it has been academically and athletically then I"m all for it. If Statler and Waldorf aren't into that business, or you don't know some firm more conservatively inclined that will come on board with resources they are willing to donate, then perhaps its time to stfu.

Seems to me MSU has accepted money from right-wingers, like the Koch Bros. I also believe Gianforte has made overtures to MSU for a building/program, etc. I agree that one's political position should make no difference in accepting help from him, but it has been an issue at MSU, if I'm not mistaken. There at least should be a requirement that the building, program, etc., not be used to promote any political, economic, etc. views. If a school senses any wish for outside control of school programs, etc., the "donation" should not be accepted.

I don't worry about where the money comes from. Hell, I had students who used the school photocopying room print millions of dollars worth of small bills and they never got caught. In fact, some even made crappy music as a front. Personally, I'm all for letting kids take great chances. Minimize the risk and minimize the rewards. Let it all hang out!

 

[first11]

(Understandable, since many were passed along from grade to grade without really achieving competence in the grade-level material.)

I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone who supported Obama. The University can do without this input. UM is way too left wing as it is without this POS. That being said, a comment on the poor state of pre-college education, as IdaGriz01 has outlined.

This has been going on for at least for the last 50-60 years. "Social promotion" is what it used to be called, don't know what the PC police call it nowadays. To even suggest that a student can't hack it, and should repeat the grade level, would cost a teacher his/her job. Move the kid to the next level, and 'graduate' this under prepared joke onto the world. Look at the 'graduation rate' improvement experienced since the '50s. Smoke and mirrors by administrators of school districts, aided and abetted by school boards who do not do their jobs. Montana had a policy that as long as you graduated from high school, you could be admitted to any public college/university in Montana. 'Bonehead' college classes used to be rare. Evidently, the have become the norm. Sad.

Passing the purity litmus test paints one in a nice corner. Or, similar to drowning person refusing a rescue collar because it was the wrong color.

 

[argh!]

(Understandable, since many were passed along from grade to grade without really achieving competence in the grade-level material.)

I wouldn't want anything to do with anyone who supported Obama. The University can do without this input. UM is way too left wing as it is without this POS. That being said, a comment on the poor state of pre-college education, as IdaGriz01 has outlined.

This has been going on for at least for the last 50-60 years. "Social promotion" is what it used to be called, don't know what the PC police call it nowadays. To even suggest that a student can't hack it, and should repeat the grade level, would cost a teacher his/her job. Move the kid to the next level, and 'graduate' this under prepared joke onto the world. Look at the 'graduation rate' improvement experienced since the '50s. Smoke and mirrors by administrators of school districts, aided and abetted by school boards who do not do their jobs. Montana had a policy that as long as you graduated from high school, you could be admitted to any public college/university in Montana. 'Bonehead' college classes used to be rare. Evidently, the have become the norm. Sad.

pfft, you don't know anything about education. graduation rate improvement is tied to $$, not any social feel-goodness. students = money, and if you give them the boot, you give their money the boot, too. if a professor has any ethics, she or he will also likely get the boot, because flunking students = costing universities money. you blather endlessly about stuff you don't have the first clue about. you and your ilk are what is wrong with this country. thinking you had it tougher than everybody else, that you are tougher than everybody else, etc etc.... it ain't true.

ok, come at me about the bqm. or wait, back in the day, we made due without a key or two on our keyboards by being creative about it. now everybody runs out and buys another cheapshit chinese keyboard, helping mr. jin ping's buddies get rich, and pretty much no one else.

how was that for a you-like rant, but from another perspective(bqm)

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

This model worked in BozoAngeles at MSU:

http://www.montana.edu/news/10312/with-laser-intensity

http://www.physics.montana.edu/people/faculty/acton-loren.html

http://www.montana.edu/mbi/hillemansymposium.html

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/sports/eagle-eye/article_f5948a27-bc3c-5eba-bfbe-748cf51bf0cb.html

Also, they did a great job thanks to Waded, in addressing those items they were dinged in their initial "visits" such as a low female ratio in comparison to other schools. Rather than get all damn defensive about their present evaluations because "Our staff is of Ivy League" credentials, they fixed the noted deficiencies. Plus she stole some highly respected staff from here. Harry Wong would be so proud of her.

She chose to accentuate the positive and brought back successful graduates, showed students what can happen should they choose to attend school there and is now hanging on as it continues to grow...but...nonresident students may have a huge backlash there as is the international fiasco caused by the Saudi student here. Most native Montanans are going to raise holy hell over educating nonresident students at a fraction of the cost of what they'd have to pay in their home state.

 

[Ursa Major]

Messina likely didn’t start his communication with Engstrom with “WTF Royce?” If true, what idiot would have turned down help from an alum, wanting to raise funds or write a check, with this kind of real-world experience? Wait, never mind. Pretty much answered my own question.

Yes, the same arrogant idiot who turned down my offer to help clear channels for industrial grants. I was only an executive who had handled academic grants and contracts as part of my Technology job for many years with a fortune 200 company and knew what drove the process. And had a ton of contacts. Since I wasn't a career academician, what could I know? Crickets to the offer. But sending in money was OK. Most important to maintain the swamp. No change needed; had everything under control.

How did your discussions go with Bodnar on this?

I have had no discussions with Bodnar. Several years have now passed and my window of effectiveness (and my energy) have diminished.

Kem, grab the cape and crack another bottle of bourbon!

 

[wbtfg]

Big whoop.

Cruzado hired Russia 7 years ago. Fred Van V, Krakauer all working as MSU/Russian operatives. Wait til we drop the bomb of bodnar’s payoff to the day shift dancer at fred’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CatzWillRise]

Better add UM in any way shape or form to the list of things being boycotted by the right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro