Consultant who helped elect Obama is working on recruitment for University of Montana — for free

[AZDoc]

When I look at the frequent posters here, I notice there's many individuals posting who are in fact much older than I am and the prevailing theme seems to be pointing fingers at what happened in the past and virtually no thoughts as to what a kid looks for in the college environment as evidenced by this:
http://www.umt.edu/institutional-research/sp2018_census.pdf

What can a kid do within walking distance of a campus here? I'm not saying you need a north campus like in Athens, Georgia where it's wall to wall bars, dances scenes, continual concerts, etc., but what the hell can a kid do here anymore? Even this site is filled with a sense of "Look at what I accomplished with my life" attitude instead of looking at why a kid would choose to go someplace else. With all the great research this place is famous for, why can't our scholarly "researchers" figure out what a kid looks for in a college experience?

And to say the graduate school numbers are "trending" up is a huge skew of data.

There are people who can actually help make this a great college experience for the kids again.

You can walk from the UM campus and within minutes be downtown at concerts, bars, food, music, hiking and mountain biking trails, floating the river, surfing, fly fishing.....wtf are you talking about?

As far as proximity for things to do...UM is waaaay ahead of many universities.

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

When I look at the frequent posters here, I notice there's many individuals posting who are in fact much older than I am and the prevailing theme seems to be pointing fingers at what happened in the past and virtually no thoughts as to what a kid looks for in the college environment as evidenced by this:
http://www.umt.edu/institutional-research/sp2018_census.pdf

What can a kid do within walking distance of a campus here? I'm not saying you need a north campus like in Athens, Georgia where it's wall to wall bars, dances scenes, continual concerts, etc., but what the hell can a kid do here anymore? Even this site is filled with a sense of "Look at what I accomplished with my life" attitude instead of looking at why a kid would choose to go someplace else. With all the great research this place is famous for, why can't our scholarly "researchers" figure out what a kid looks for in a college experience?

And to say the graduate school numbers are "trending" up is a huge skew of data.

There are people who can actually help make this a great college experience for the kids again.

You can walk from the UM campus and within minutes be downtown at concerts, bars, food, music, hiking and mountain biking trails, floating the river, surfing, fly fishing.....wtf are you talking about?

As far as proximity for things to do...UM is waaaay ahead of many universities.

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know? As far as number six, I believe getting Messina involved will definitely help. Those commercials featuring Sheila last fall turned more than a few kids away--some of the high school kids laughed at them. Just like Messina was able to connect with the kids in the Obama campaign, I like to think he'll show some relevance in a UM degree by featuring successful graduates and he'll show the kids enjoying what the area has to offer. I hope so.

 

[putter]

UM also does not have their stuff together. My brother-in-law is a UM alum and he did campus visits with both UM and MSU with his daughter. He said after the visits, if he had a choice, he would go to MSU. The way they reach out and promote their campus life is night and day better than Missoula at this time.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

When I look at the frequent posters here, I notice there's many individuals posting who are in fact much older than I am and the prevailing theme seems to be pointing fingers at what happened in the past and virtually no thoughts as to what a kid looks for in the college environment as evidenced by this:
http://www.umt.edu/institutional-research/sp2018_census.pdf

What can a kid do within walking distance of a campus here? I'm not saying you need a north campus like in Athens, Georgia where it's wall to wall bars, dances scenes, continual concerts, etc., but what the hell can a kid do here anymore? Even this site is filled with a sense of "Look at what I accomplished with my life" attitude instead of looking at why a kid would choose to go someplace else. With all the great research this place is famous for, why can't our scholarly "researchers" figure out what a kid looks for in a college experience?

And to say the graduate school numbers are "trending" up is a huge skew of data.

There are people who can actually help make this a great college experience for the kids again.

You can walk from the UM campus and within minutes be downtown at concerts, bars, food, music, hiking and mountain biking trails, floating the river, surfing, fly fishing.....wtf are you talking about?

As far as proximity for things to do...UM is waaaay ahead of many universities.

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

Is it not obvious why kids arent attending school in Missoula?

Its not Missoula thats the issue. UMs campus has a much higher access to immediate amenities than MSU has.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

UM also does not have their stuff together. My brother-in-law is a UM alum and he did campus visits with both UM and MSU with his daughter. He said after the visits, if he had a choice, he would go to MSU. The way they reach out and promote their campus life is night and day better than Missoula at this time.

I know this may not make much of a difference but I look at who Waded "stole" just from the UM Native Studies Department has to affected a large number of students. She has three UM educated Montana reservation enrolled members on her staff who all began their careers here. I don't believe UM has a single Montana Tribal member on their Native American Studies staff. Again, it's an internal issue.

Edit* My kids noted the lack of emphasis on the college experience also.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

You can walk from the UM campus and within minutes be downtown at concerts, bars, food, music, hiking and mountain biking trails, floating the river, surfing, fly fishing.....wtf are you talking about?

As far as proximity for things to do...UM is waaaay ahead of many universities.

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know? As far as number six, I believe getting Messina involved will definitely help. Those commercials featuring Sheila last fall turned more than a few kids away--some of the high school kids laughed at them. Just like Messina was able to connect with the kids in the Obama campaign, I like to think he'll show some relevance in a UM degree by featuring successful graduates and he'll show the kids enjoying what the area has to offer. I hope so.

Seriously tell me what there is to do in Bozeman that isnt available in Missoula. Tell me how long it takes to walk from MSUs Campus to downtown Bozeman, and than do the same in Missoula. Theres plenty to do in both communities.

I just dont buy that argument whatsoever.

 

[sdk.catfish]

Possibly a little off topic but I can say they are doing a better job following up with Alumni who provide monetary support. This year I received a follow-up thank-you phone call as well as thank you letters from the College of Arts and Sciences and the Department from which I obtained my degree. I can assure you I am no Denny Washington so they seem to be following up with even small doners. I also saw an nice, very professional advertisement for the Dept. of Environmental Sciences in the High Country News (yes, one of those liberal environmental rags). So I think we are already seeing some improvement in marketing and that is good news in my opinion.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know? As far as number six, I believe getting Messina involved will definitely help. Those commercials featuring Sheila last fall turned more than a few kids away--some of the high school kids laughed at them. Just like Messina was able to connect with the kids in the Obama campaign, I like to think he'll show some relevance in a UM degree by featuring successful graduates and he'll show the kids enjoying what the area has to offer. I hope so.

Seriously tell me what there is to do in Bozeman that isnt available in Missoula. Tell me how long it takes to walk from MSUs Campus to downtown Bozeman, and than do the same in Missoula. Theres plenty to do in both communities.

I just dont buy that argument whatsoever.

I've gone beyond denial, being pissed and I feel it's time to begin rebuilding this school. In the greater scheme of higher education in the state of Montana, the entire Montana University System has approximately 26k total students. Over 17k are attending college at MSU. Messina is a start.

Perhaps you had a wonderful time while you were a student here. Kids today don't view their potential college experience through the same lens as your memories are for a number of reasons. I can only address what swayed my children and their classmates perceptions about this school and the surrounding community.

Maybe you can leave Texas, get on board here and hopefully convince some of them to attend school here? Your school (I'm assuming you went to school here) is on the canvass right now. You're squabbling with me in an online forum sounds like the many conversations I've listened to among the faculty here. They actually don't believe the kids are not coming here for all the great experiences they had 20, 30, 40 years ago...

 

[BWahlberg]

Possibly a little off topic but I can say they are doing a better job following up with Alumni who provide monetary support. This year I received a follow-up thank-you phone call as well as thank you letters from the College of Arts and Sciences and the Department from which I obtained my degree. I can assure you I am no Denny Washington so they seem to be following up with even small doners. I also saw an nice, very professional advertisement for the Dept. of Environmental Sciences in the High Country News (yes, one of those liberal environmental rags). So I think we are already seeing some improvement in marketing and that is good news in my opinion.

Yep, I've noticed this as well, the outreach to alumni has suddenly started

 

[kemajic]

Messina likely didn’t start his communication with Engstrom with “WTF Royce?” If true, what idiot would have turned down help from an alum, wanting to raise funds or write a check, with this kind of real-world experience? Wait, never mind. Pretty much answered my own question.

Yes, the same arrogant idiot who turned down my offer to help clear channels for industrial grants. I was only an executive who had handled academic grants and contracts as part of my Technology job for many years with a fortune 200 company and knew what drove the process. And had a ton of contacts. Since I wasn't a career academician, what could I know? Crickets to the offer. But sending in money was OK. Most important to maintain the swamp. No change needed; had everything under control.

How did your discussions go with Bodnar on this?

I have had no discussions with Bodnar. Several years have now passed and my window of effectiveness (and my energy) have diminished.

 

[argh!]

Messina likely didn’t start his communication with Engstrom with “WTF Royce?” If true, what idiot would have turned down help from an alum, wanting to raise funds or write a check, with this kind of real-world experience? Wait, never mind. Pretty much answered my own question.

Yes, the same arrogant idiot who turned down my offer to help clear channels for industrial grants. I was only an executive who had handled academic grants and contracts as part of my Technology job for many years with a fortune 200 company and knew what drove the process. And had a ton of contacts. Since I wasn't a career academician, what could I know? Crickets to the offer. But sending in money was OK. Most important to maintain the swamp. No change needed; had everything under control.

sounds to me like you contacted the wrong person. did you try the vp for research, who in turn could have connected you to the appropriate college or department(bqm) there's still time, if you are serious.

Well any competent leader would have said, I'm not the guy for this convo, but lets sit down in a room with the right guy. And than as the President I'd make damn sure this type of offer was working towards the university's benefit.

i'd like to hear the details of how this went down before making too much out of it. university presidents, even bad ones, are typically wall-to-wall busy, and get hard-to-verify 'offers of help' all the time. not saying it was handled correctly, but also not saying it wasn't, because we don't have any details.

 

[kemajic]

Messina likely didn’t start his communication with Engstrom with “WTF Royce?” If true, what idiot would have turned down help from an alum, wanting to raise funds or write a check, with this kind of real-world experience? Wait, never mind. Pretty much answered my own question.

Yes, the same arrogant idiot who turned down my offer to help clear channels for industrial grants. I was only an executive who had handled academic grants and contracts as part of my Technology job for many years with a fortune 200 company and knew what drove the process. And had a ton of contacts. Since I wasn't a career academician, what could I know? Crickets to the offer. But sending in money was OK. Most important to maintain the swamp. No change needed; had everything under control.

sounds to me like you contacted the wrong person. did you try the vp for research, who in turn could have connected you to the appropriate college or department(bqm) there's still time, if you are serious.

Engstom is a chemist and one of his key charters was to improve the flow of grant money to UM. I had the discussion with him face to face. Relations with willing corporations seemed beneath him; believed UM was entitled to unrestricted grants. I guess you're suggesting he had no sense of delegation. Among his many leadership weaknesses, that could well have been another.

There is not still time; too much time has passed now for me to create any value.

 

[SaskGriz]

When I look at the frequent posters here, I notice there's many individuals posting who are in fact much older than I am and the prevailing theme seems to be pointing fingers at what happened in the past and virtually no thoughts as to what a kid looks for in the college environment as evidenced by this:
http://www.umt.edu/institutional-research/sp2018_census.pdf

What can a kid do within walking distance of a campus here? I'm not saying you need a north campus like in Athens, Georgia where it's wall to wall bars, dances scenes, continual concerts, etc., but what the hell can a kid do here anymore? Even this site is filled with a sense of "Look at what I accomplished with my life" attitude instead of looking at why a kid would choose to go someplace else. With all the great research this place is famous for, why can't our scholarly "researchers" figure out what a kid looks for in a college experience?

And to say the graduate school numbers are "trending" up is a huge skew of data.

There are people who can actually help make this a great college experience for the kids again.

You can walk from the UM campus and within minutes be downtown at concerts, bars, food, music, hiking and mountain biking trails, floating the river, surfing, fly fishing.....wtf are you talking about?

As far as proximity for things to do...UM is waaaay ahead of many universities.

Really? Then Einstein, you explain why the hell the kids are not going to attend school here. I can tell you exactly why my kids chose to go elsewhere. The kids are voting with their feet en mass. 6500 undergraduates. That's what the f*** I'm talking about. Observation. Identify the problem...and quit blaming crackhouse. It's internal.

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

I have no dog in this fight, but I have to admit as a freshman at the U of M in 85' I was fascinatingly confused by the fact that there was no on campus pub. I don't think you could run a university in the civilized world with out at least a Student Society Pub and usually one or two others; Engineering Society, Education faculty, Student Union.

 

[IdaGriz01]

… I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know?
…

... Perhaps you had a wonderful time while you were a student here. Kids today don't view their potential college experience through the same lens as your memories are for a number of reasons. I can only address what swayed my children and their classmate's perceptions about this school and the surrounding community.
...

We don’t have much of a dog in this race in terms of sending (or not) a student to the University of Montana (our link is through now-retired faculty). So this post is not meant to be argumentative, it’s just a matter of curiosity.

The UM “activities” calendar seems to offer a reasonable schedule of events … I cannot, of course, judge how entertaining, interesting or otherwise worthwhile the events might be. When I look at a Google map, I see parks, recreational facilities, plenty of restaurants, at least one theater, and other off-campus “stuff” -- all within what I would consider walking distance. (Of course, what I would consider “walking distance” might not fly with today’s young people.) Now, I will grant that there’s no big mall anywhere close to the campus, so perhaps that’s the problem. Other than that, from a “traditional viewpoint, the range of things to do seems pretty reasonable.

But the “nothing to do there … boring” comment obviously calls that into question. So I am genuinely curious: What do today’s prospective students want from a campus/community … other than a good education? Do they even know, or is it mostly a matter of “feel”?

It's hard fix a problem when (1) as you suggest, you're in denial that there is a problem, and (2) you really don't know what the problem is.

 

[first11]

Nice to hear of momentum but UM has some serious obstacles to overcome due in part to the down selling of a liberal arts education in past decade. This in addition to over selling of the STEM education. The market may soon decide we have an abundance of ‘engineers ‘

The student in terms of generational aspirations, culture, etc. has also changed. MSU has certainly effectively tapped into what it takes to lure them in.

I believe UM in mission and curriculum will be a very different institution in next 5 years. I recall the long gone old timber industry of many decades ago, Missoula appears to have slowly morphed into a tech focus embracing trends that are here to stay generationally.

Appears that we have bottomed out and our best years are ahead. Go Griz

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

I think there are a litany of reasons, some internal and some external. We can play the game, in fact I'd like to, on why we think the enrollment is down and what to do about it. Ready, not in any order, here goes:

1. programs...get some new programs into the system to bring in new kids. I'm bias, but medical is big
2. bad pub...yep, it matters. Face it head on and deal with it. I'll leave it at that
3. funding...need funding to advertise, but money up front exponentially increases on the back end. Invest in advertising and recruiting.
4. Selling...someone needs to do a better job about selling the university and the Missoula area. There are plenty of things to do there. SELL IT!
5. Teams...as been discussed good sports=good recruitment. They also need to be in the forefront in recruiting, meaning articles need to be published on how much community service they do, or engaging with the elementary kids, etc
6. Alum/Boosters...doing good things to help the process. Sells the school and sells themselves in a good way, not an Alabama buying players type of way.

Please add and discuss. Maybe should've started a thread separately but figured this was about recruitment for the school.

I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know? As far as number six, I believe getting Messina involved will definitely help. Those commercials featuring Sheila last fall turned more than a few kids away--some of the high school kids laughed at them. Just like Messina was able to connect with the kids in the Obama campaign, I like to think he'll show some relevance in a UM degree by featuring successful graduates and he'll show the kids enjoying what the area has to offer. I hope so.

Seriously tell me what there is to do in Bozeman that isnt available in Missoula. Tell me how long it takes to walk from MSUs Campus to downtown Bozeman, and than do the same in Missoula. Theres plenty to do in both communities.

I just dont buy that argument whatsoever.

I've gone beyond denial, being pissed and I feel it's time to begin rebuilding this school. In the greater scheme of higher education in the state of Montana, the entire Montana University System has approximately 26k total students. Over 17k are attending college at MSU. Messina is a start.

Perhaps you had a wonderful time while you were a student here. Kids today don't view their potential college experience through the same lens as your memories are for a number of reasons. I can only address what swayed my children and their classmates perceptions about this school and the surrounding community.

Maybe you can leave Texas, get on board here and hopefully convince some of them to attend school here? Your school (I'm assuming you went to school here) is on the canvass right now. You're squabbling with me in an online forum sounds like the many conversations I've listened to among the faculty here. They actually don't believe the kids are not coming here for all the great experiences they had 20, 30, 40 years ago...

Well I've only been out of school for about 6 years, so I cant really speak to that. And if I could come back to Missoula and make a living like I do in Texas I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[BadlandsGrizFan]

… I can tell you from my own kids perspective. Quote-unquote: "There's nothing to do there. It's boring unless you get in a car and go someplace." But as a parent, what do I know?
…

... Perhaps you had a wonderful time while you were a student here. Kids today don't view their potential college experience through the same lens as your memories are for a number of reasons. I can only address what swayed my children and their classmate's perceptions about this school and the surrounding community.
...

We don’t have much of a dog in this race in terms of sending (or not) a student to the University of Montana (our link is through now-retired faculty). So this post is not meant to be argumentative, it’s just a matter of curiosity.

The UM “activities” calendar seems to offer a reasonable schedule of events … I cannot, of course, judge how entertaining, interesting or otherwise worthwhile the events might be. When I look at a Google map, I see parks, recreational facilities, plenty of restaurants, at least one theater, and other off-campus “stuff” -- all within what I would consider walking distance. (Of course, what I would consider “walking distance” might not fly with today’s young people.) Now, I will grant that there’s no big mall anywhere close to the campus, so perhaps that’s the problem. Other than that, from a “traditional viewpoint, the range of things to do seems pretty reasonable.

But the “nothing to do there … boring” comment obviously calls that into question. So I am genuinely curious: What do today’s prospective students want from a campus/community … other than a good education? Do they even know, or is it mostly a matter of “feel”?

It's hard fix a problem when (1) as you suggest, you're in denial that there is a problem, and (2) you really don't know what the problem is.

I feel the same, I'm not arguing the curriculum, some things need to change there. But the UM still has great science programs, Law School, and programs that translate into the public and private sectors well.

So I am also curious....what is it that kids seem to think Missoula does not have and Bozeman does, as in the communities, not the schools, if that is part of the argument.

 

[PlayerRep]

Messina likely didn’t start his communication with Engstrom with “WTF Royce?” If true, what idiot would have turned down help from an alum, wanting to raise funds or write a check, with this kind of real-world experience? Wait, never mind. Pretty much answered my own question.

Yes, the same arrogant idiot who turned down my offer to help clear channels for industrial grants. I was only an executive who had handled academic grants and contracts as part of my Technology job for many years with a fortune 200 company and knew what drove the process. And had a ton of contacts. Since I wasn't a career academician, what could I know? Crickets to the offer. But sending in money was OK. Most important to maintain the swamp. No change needed; had everything under control.

sounds to me like you contacted the wrong person. did you try the vp for research, who in turn could have connected you to the appropriate college or department(bqm) there's still time, if you are serious.

Recently, you were touting all the things Engstrom did in bringing in grants and federal money. Now, you are telling Kem he talked to the wrong person when he talked to Engstrom?

 

[argh!]

Messina likely didn’t start his communication with Engstrom with “WTF Royce?” If true, what idiot would have turned down help from an alum, wanting to raise funds or write a check, with this kind of real-world experience? Wait, never mind. Pretty much answered my own question.

Yes, the same arrogant idiot who turned down my offer to help clear channels for industrial grants. I was only an executive who had handled academic grants and contracts as part of my Technology job for many years with a fortune 200 company and knew what drove the process. And had a ton of contacts. Since I wasn't a career academician, what could I know? Crickets to the offer. But sending in money was OK. Most important to maintain the swamp. No change needed; had everything under control.

sounds to me like you contacted the wrong person. did you try the vp for research, who in turn could have connected you to the appropriate college or department(bqm) there's still time, if you are serious.

Engstom is a chemist and one of his key charters was to improve the flow of grant money to UM. I had the discussion with him face to face. Relations with willing corporations seemed beneath him; believed UM was entitled to unrestricted grants. I guess you're suggesting he had no sense of delegation. Among his many leadership weaknesses, that could well have been another.

There is not still time; too much time has passed now for me to create any value.

interesting. thanks for the explanation.

 

[argh!]

Messina likely didn’t start his communication with Engstrom with “WTF Royce?” If true, what idiot would have turned down help from an alum, wanting to raise funds or write a check, with this kind of real-world experience? Wait, never mind. Pretty much answered my own question.

Yes, the same arrogant idiot who turned down my offer to help clear channels for industrial grants. I was only an executive who had handled academic grants and contracts as part of my Technology job for many years with a fortune 200 company and knew what drove the process. And had a ton of contacts. Since I wasn't a career academician, what could I know? Crickets to the offer. But sending in money was OK. Most important to maintain the swamp. No change needed; had everything under control.

sounds to me like you contacted the wrong person. did you try the vp for research, who in turn could have connected you to the appropriate college or department(bqm) there's still time, if you are serious.

Recently, you were touting all the things Engstrom did in bringing in grants and federal money. Now, you are telling Kem he talked to the wrong person when he talked to Engstrom?

liar. i've never 'touted all things engstrom', i just said that not every single aspect of um's performance was bad under him, and used grant success as evidence.

also, i'm pretty sure that in kem's initial post saying he offered engstrom help with industrial grant connections (whatever that means), he said the offer was to engstrom, but didn't specify it as having been discussed directly. without clarification, one could just as easily have thought it could have been via an email, a message through a friend, etc etc... as you know very well, greenie, it is easy to make one's activities sound more (or less) important than they are (or were). for instance, was kem's "face-to-face" discussion with engstrom during an official office visit, or was it at some alumni or donor party where they happened to have a brief conversation(bqm) i dunno, but at first i was going to go with it being more like the former, but then i took into account that kem said engstrom seemed to think um was "entitled to unrestricted grants", and because of kem's blatant disregard for reality in order to paint engstrom as bad, i was plunged back into indecisiveness, "was the discussion during a real business meeting", i thought, "or was it more off the cuff, and kem is making it sound like it was, although that wasn't really the case(bqm)" if you can clarify the above, i'd have a better idea whether kem talked to the wrong person (engstrom) or not.