Conference realignment talks hit the Mountain West

[dupuyer griz]

You're absolutely right. Right now Coastal Carolina loves where they're at. They have dreams of being in the FBS playoff and beating Alabama in the Sugar Bowl.

Let us see if an undefeated season is going to punch their ticket into those playoffs? Sadly I believe we all know the answer.

Maybe Coastal Carolina can beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. I think a much better dream than winning the FCS NC.

The power 5 will never let them in. The best they will be is number 5 first team out of the playoff. They’re not letting a lower tier team in the sand box.

 

[Spanky2]

I’ve never understood the desire to remain in a mediocre division like FCS. Especially, when UM has a team that has beaten a top 20 FBS team.

Lol come on man, one single win vs an overrated UW team and we are automatically ready for FBS? Bit of a reach don’t you think?

No, I don’t think so.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

That’s a poor example CDA. Of course a kids gonna pick an offer from SMU over SELA. Besides a true playoff system, what else is attractive about SELA? It’s in the middle of nowhere with shit facilities.

Now would a kid choose an offer to SMU over UM? I’m not entirely sure they would. We have facilities that are likely on par with SMU and we can also sell the opportunity to play for a national championship. That’s a different story. And I do think there have been occasions where kids have chosen the Griz over some mountain west offers because of this exact reason. Being able to play for something this meaningful means more.

Generally speaking, I hope you don’t believe a student-athlete would pick a FCS school over a FBS school because of playoffs rather than bowl games. Let’s assume he had full ride offers from both schools.

I have trouble with a lot of concepts, but I have trouble with this one, too. A team like Fresno or San Diego State doesn’t have a great shot at the CFB Playoffs, but I have to think players are still going to those programs over Cal Poly and Sac State for reasons that maybe don’t make sense to some. If not, the draw of an FCS playoff bracket should all but kill any non-P5 FBS program in terms of recruiting, right? I have to missing something with this…

TL;DR: I agree with you. Still open to ideas to the contrary.

 

[Spanky2]

I find it laughable that people continue to use terms like "second-rate bowl", "meaningless, un-watched bowl", and the all-time classic "toilet bowl" when discussing a move (it's not a move up any longer, just a move) to the FBS.

WTF do you all think the fcs "national" championship is?? It's a second-rate, meaningless, un-watched game that airs at 9:00 am and is played in a soccer stadium. And it costs the program money to play in it.


Yay.

So winning a national championship would mean nothing to you then? I realize that the FCS doesn’t get a lot of coverage but come on Everett. Sports are about competing for a championship. As much as these major conferences sometime struggle to understand this, sports is not about money. I’d love to see the players take a vote on whether they’d like to compete for a championship or play in a second rate bowl game, cause I think I know what the answer would be. There will come a time where a move up maybe worth it but that time is not now and not until the G5 has a reasonable playoff system. Until that’s the case, I have no desire to go anywhere.

If those same players voted to play in FBS or FCS, how do you think they would vote?

 

[sdk.catfish]

Spanky2
As much as these major conferences sometime struggle to understand this, sports is not about money.

Spanky - I would like to see an egriz poll on how many really believe this. Maybe not "all" about money but in my opinion certainly a good portion of it is. But I could be wrong.

 

[HelenaHandBasket]

So winning a national championship would mean nothing to you then? I realize that the FCS doesn’t get a lot of coverage but come on Everett. Sports are about competing for a championship. As much as these major conferences sometime struggle to understand this, sports is not about money. I’d love to see the players take a vote on whether they’d like to compete for a championship or play in a second rate bowl game, cause I think I know what the answer would be. There will come a time where a move up maybe worth it but that time is not now and not until the G5 has a reasonable playoff system. Until that’s the case, I have no desire to go anywhere.

If you are at a FCS, of course you want to win the championship. If you are a majority of the high school football players, you want to play FBS football and don't care about the FCS playoffs.

 

[AZGrizFan]

A steaming pile of mediocrity

Just like THAT you change the subject to the Big Sky Conference? :lol:

In 5 words. :lol:

 

[Berkeley_Griz]

I find it laughable that people continue to use terms like "second-rate bowl", "meaningless, un-watched bowl", and the all-time classic "toilet bowl" when discussing a move (it's not a move up any longer, just a move) to the FBS.

WTF do you all think the fcs "national" championship is?? It's a second-rate, meaningless, un-watched game that airs at 9:00 am and is played in a soccer stadium. And it costs the program money to play in it.


Yay.

I find it much more fun to play in a "meaningless" FCS playoff and win a "meaningless" FCS national championship than to play in a meaningless Champ Sports Bowl and never have a chance at a national championship.

 

[Griz til I die]

Ok so after much deliberation and thought from reading these posts, here is my honest opinion on what we should do. I agree with Everett that we certainly don’t wanna get behind the 8-ball. So I’m willing to move up before the implementation of a G5 playoff to get everything in order, but I want reassurances that the playoff would be implemented within 2-3 years after a move up. I don’t wanna spend 5 years in the FBS waiting around for the creation of the playoff. Figure out when it happens, move up a year or 2 before it’s implemented, get used to a new conference and scholarship limits, and then let’s go.

 

[fanofzoo]

Spanky2
As much as these major conferences sometime struggle to understand this, sports is not about money.

Spanky - I would like to see an egriz poll on how many really believe this. Maybe not "all" about money but in my opinion certainly a good portion of it is. But I could be wrong.

Sadly it is, just look at what the ncaa is all about today and what they have created. I hate it and hopefully you do also but times have changed.

 

[stonecrest]

Let’s move up to FBS and play in the Idaho Potato Bowl. It just doesn’t get any better hosting
a couple of playoff games and making a run at a National Championship.

 

[Jaredkuehn]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh the joy of trying to form a cogent thought in Egriz! You come in and question everyone's thoughts, but don't provide any meaningful insights of your own? Way to add to the conversation!

Tell us what you think Kem? Stay put or move up? If we stay put, are you happy with the current situation in the BSC? If we move up, where do you see us landing?

The distance from Missoula to Souix Falls is 870 Miles. The distance From Missoula to Flagstaff is 837 Miles. Yes, the Dakota's are in the Midwest, but they are bordering states. The distances travelled to the Dakotas would be comparable to what Montana schools already experience in the Big Sky. Thanks for geography lesson though!

My comment about traveling to "the Midwest and beyond" was in reference to the comparison of Idaho being in the Sunbelt and having to travel to Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, etc. I suppose traveling to Troy Alabama is basically the same as traveling to Vermillion South Dakota, right? Maybe I'm missing the other Western FBS conference that would offer a good home to the Montana schools. You seem to have all the answers, so please enlighten us.

I would be all for a move up if there were an opportunity, but there currently isn't, so until there might be, silly dreaming is not for me in my world of realism.

You were touting your idea as a regional travel improvement which you just shot down. Most fans would drive to the Dakota games, since connections are so bad. So continuing with the geography lesson, the shortest distance Missoula to Grand Forks is 1008 mi, to Fargo 951, to Brookings 994, to Vermillion 1039. You drop shorter trips to EWU, PSU, Weber and call this an improvement.

I don't question everyone's thoughts, just thoughts like this.

Wow, I'm not sure how the meaning of my original post got so twisted. I definitely was not touting my idea as a regional travel improvement. Not sure where you got that. I was suggesting that if the Mountain West Conference is not an option, that the Dakota and Idaho flagship schools are better peer institutions for UM and MSU than the directional and commuter schools that currently make up the Big Sky Conference.

My point about travel was that if you don't land in the Mountain West Conference, the only options are to join an existing FBS conference completely out of region, creating the same travel nightmare that Idaho had in the Sunbelt.

To refocus back to the original thread topic, my point is that I think the Big Sky Conference is holding the Montana schools back. If the MWC were ever to come calling, I think UM and MSU would be foolish not to take the opportunity, despite the challenges of moving up. I suspect you and I probably agree on that point.

 

[kemajic]

To refocus back to the original thread topic, my point is that I think the Big Sky Conference is holding the Montana schools back. If the MWC were ever to come calling, I think UM and MSU would be foolish not to take the opportunity, despite the challenges of moving up. I suspect you and I probably agree on that point.

I agree 100% And I'm guilty as charged for missing that point in the Highline conf. suggestion.

 

[UTGrizFan]

Personally I'd love to see us move up to FBS, I think it would be awesome to see us play Wyoming, Utah State and New Mexico every year for example. However the likelihood of us getting asked to move up will probably only happen if the MWC gets raided bad enough. On the MWC board apparently there is a desire to move into Texas so schools there would get the first look, my money would be on Texas State and UTSA but that's if Air Force and CSU leave (the x2 teams in question currently). Would look something like this:

MOUNTAIN DIVISION:

Boise State, UNM, Wyoming, Utah State, Texas State, UTSA

(States: TX, ID, WY, UT, NM)

WEST DIVISION:

FSU, SJSU, Nevada, UNLV, Hawaii, SDSU

(States: CA, NV, HI)

However there is also talks of BSU and SDSU getting Big12 Invites down the road, if that were to happen I could see both us and MSU getting an invite at that point and I could see a more North/South approach for the Divisions:

MOUNTAIN/NORTHDIVISION:

Montana, MSU, Wyoming, Utah State, Nevada, UNLV

(States: MT, NV, WY, UT)

WEST/SOUTH DIVISION:

FSU, SJSU, Texas State, UTSA, Hawaii, New Mexico

(States: CA, TX, NM, HI)

Also have Potential Adds if they want to go to 16 teams:

UTEP, UNT, NMSU, North Dakota State, South Dakota State

 

[Iowagriz]

We won't be moving up. After the P5 consolidation of 15 or so teams per conference, the remaining FBS teams will be moving down to join us. It will se sold as a move up, but the Olympic sports rule to be FBS will be dropped for this new tier. Only way to keep these schools viable and the cash cow of football alive.

Top 75 teams to P5
Remaining 50? plus upper current FCS to create this new tier. What does FCS have maybe top 40?

 

[Ursa Major]

In college athletics you have the Super-Rich, a.k.a. the Power Five. They live in huge stadia and opulent arenas and make staggering sums of money both at the gate and from television. They've stolen the money.

Then you have the Middle Class, a.k.a. The Group of Five. They survive nicely owing to the fact they too have reasonably nice stadia and arenas but can always make the rent by paying visits to the Power Five. Once in a generation, one of these teams makes it to the BCS where the REAL money flows.

Finally, you have your tired, your poor, your huddled masses—the FCS. Generally, rickety football stadia, high school gyms instead of arenas, and little revenue from TV. Most of these schools exist on the largesse of the Power Five, who generously dole out enough money for a body bag game to keep the athletic budget afloat. Like society’s lower classes, who survive on well-intended but meaningless phrases like “Military Hero,” “First Responder,” and “Thanks for your Service!”, the poor FCS is handed a garish outsized trophy for their Champions Center…Congratulations! National Champions!

But no money.

So where is Montana?

Middle class; poor neighborhood.

Thus: If you want the soothing but meaningless accolades—“National Championship,” “FCS Power”—stay where we are.

If you’re worried about money, it’s time to move up. The Power Five schools and their fanbases are screaming bloody murder about these embarrassments against the FCS. Those games will dry up. And while we’re thrilled about being on ESPN2, this is a fluke. The TV money has already dried up.

My guess—and hope?

Follow the money.

Great post, Citay!

 

[kemajic]

In college athletics you have the Super-Rich, a.k.a. the Power Five. They live in huge stadia and opulent arenas and make staggering sums of money both at the gate and from television. They've stolen the money.

Then you have the Middle Class, a.k.a. The Group of Five. They survive nicely owing to the fact they too have reasonably nice stadia and arenas but can always make the rent by paying visits to the Power Five. Once in a generation, one of these teams makes it to the BCS where the REAL money flows.

Finally, you have your tired, your poor, your huddled masses—the FCS. Generally, rickety football stadia, high school gyms instead of arenas, and little revenue from TV. Most of these schools exist on the largesse of the Power Five, who generously dole out enough money for a body bag game to keep the athletic budget afloat. Like society’s lower classes, who survive on well-intended but meaningless phrases like “Military Hero,” “First Responder,” and “Thanks for your Service!”, the poor FCS is handed a garish outsized trophy for their Champions Center…Congratulations! National Champions!

But no money.

So where is Montana?

Middle class; poor neighborhood.

Thus: If you want the soothing but meaningless accolades—“National Championship,” “FCS Power”—stay where we are.

If you’re worried about money, it’s time to move up. The Power Five schools and their fanbases are screaming bloody murder about these embarrassments against the FCS. Those games will dry up. And while we’re thrilled about being on ESPN2, this is a fluke. The TV money has already dried up.

My guess—and hope?

Follow the money.

Great post, Citay!

The other money that is likely to dry up is the NCAA subsidy for FCS and lower playoffs. As the P5 gains more power and independence, they consider this a tax they don't need to pay. They are likely to stop contributing and force the NCAA to tap into its BBall tourney revenues, which then irritates the Bball only institutions. House of cards.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

Let’s move up to FBS and play in the Idaho Potato Bowl. It just doesn’t get any better hosting
a couple of playoff games and making a run at a National Championship.

We sure wouldn’t want to play in a game with a close to $1 million payout. It might be good enough for Clemson, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, Boston College, San Diego State, and Boise, but we’re too good for that kind of toilet bowl. Haha, toilet bowl! Like a bowl game for turds!

 

[SaskGriz]

Let’s move up to FBS and play in the Idaho Potato Bowl. It just doesn’t get any better hosting
a couple of playoff games and making a run at a National Championship.

We sure wouldn’t want to play in a game with a close to $1 million payout. It might be good enough for Clemson, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, Boston College, San Diego State, and Boise, but we’re too good for that kind of toilet bowl. Haha, toilet bowl! Like a bowl game for turds!

Did any of those teams want to play in that game? I'm willing to bet if you asked them they'd admit they were forced to settle for that game. That stadium holds 36,000 and hasn't had even 30,000 in it since 2005, the last time Boise St played. In 2018 it drew 18,711, didn't watch it but I doubt the atmosphere was electric.

As it currently stands there are three meaningful Bowl games in the FBS and they aren't meaningful because they are bowl games. Everything else is a participant medal. I hate the we lost in a rain storm at Weber last year, but at least the game meant something.

Just my two cents.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

We sure wouldn’t want to play in a game with a close to $1 million payout. It might be good enough for Clemson, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami, Boston College, San Diego State, and Boise, but we’re too good for that kind of toilet bowl. Haha, toilet bowl! Like a bowl game for turds!

Did any of those teams want to play in that game? I'm willing to bet if you asked them they'd admit they were forced to settle for that game. That stadium holds 36,000 and hasn't had even 30,000 in it since 2005, the last time Boise St played. In 2018 it drew 18,711, didn't watch it but I doubt the atmosphere was electric.

As it currently stands there are three meaningful Bowl games in the FBS and they aren't meaningful because they are bowl games. Everything else is a participant medal. I hate the we lost in a rain storm at Weber last year, but at least the game meant something.

Just my two cents.

I see your side of it, too. I’m sure the players on those teams would’ve rather played in the BCS championship game. I’m not sure I’m sold that they would’ve rather played an FCS game at Weber. The FCS Championship Game hasn’t had 30,000 people in the stands since 1996 and only 2 other times in history, all played by Marshall on its home field. Maybe I’m misreading it, but it hasn’t cracked 20,000 since 2015 and has drawn as low as 14k as recently as 2016 (not counting last year, of course). I was pretty surprised by these numbers. I understand that the current stadium holds around 21k, but I’m not sure there are many times when people want tickets and can’t get them.

I’d like to go sometime. Check out the National Soccer HOF at halftime of the NC game.