College Coaches and expectations

[Buttegrizzle]

Clearly UM has very high expectations, to go along with the best fan support, best stadium and now presumably a top shelf training facility. It seems we need to be prepared to pay a better salary to the HC, on an incentive basis anyway. Not that we can compete with FBS salaries but it is just wrong that NDSU pays 2 or 3 times what Montana does. If we want to keep the best around a while we might have to be prepared to pay accordingly.

It really worked too not that it was anywhere close to 2-3 times what Montana paid. Bohls jumped for Wyoming how quickly after saying he NEVER wanted to leave NDSU and walked away from an 8 YEAR contract with a $400,000 buyout 2 weeks later.

Montana coaching salaries are very consistent with the rest of the FCS. Unless we compete with the 7 figure salaries of the next level, we are fine. Incidentally the incentive clauses are pretty significant for a Montana Coach so long as his players stay out of jail, the news paper, graduate, the team maintains/improves APR and of course progresses in the Playoffs.

As far as that expectations thing. DD made it clear a while back that was the main reason he would NEVER consider coaching here.

What are the incentives?

Good question. I remember reading on egriz around the time we were discussing the NDSU scheduling and Bohl left for Wyo. that his salary was WAY higher than UM paid. If I recall he got a deal involving a percent of gate receipts or something that made the difference. Any NDSU guys lurking on egriz that would enlighten us? Anyway, I know UM is good compared to the BSC and many other FCS conferences but nowhere near what Bohl was making at NDSU.

 

[CDAGRIZ]

If your players stay out of jail, the news paper, if they graduate, the team maintains/improves APR, and if the team progresses in the playoffs, we'll give you another one-year contract next year. :lol:

Probably. Tnt, do you have the numbers or not?

 

[Buttegrizzle]

Its probably about time to "move up" anyway.

 

[griz4life]

If you're school is a stepping stone, that's a good thing. I have no problem with that. I think it's great if a guy stays five or seven years, moves on and does well.
It's the hangers on, the ones that never seem to find a better offer than FCS Montana, which doesn't even pay as well as other conference schools, who make me nervous.

Pflu was a good Read assistant. He left after a few years and did well in the PAC 10. Tommy Lee was a good Read assistant. He left and did well with Utah in what is now the Mountain West. Brent Pease, though pecked at by a few egrizzers, has done well. Bob Cole has done well.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

One might look East to ugly msu and note that R. Ash is a fine coach that does very well and will likely retire from there.
Kramer is doing a good job and will likely be at ISU for a period.
B. Baldwin coaches with great results and I expect him to jump up if he can.
Walsh at Poly is in a great place and my guess is he retires in that great place.
Jerome will probably retire at his present job.

All of the above coaches have done well and will continue to do so. When we search for a new coach we will look for one that can get similar results as the above good people. Also one that will not leave and climb. One reason that Pflugrad made good sense when he was hired.

Soon Mick will step down and the search will begin.

What? Mick has given us results EXACTLY like Walsh, Kramer and Sauewrs and Ash. And Griz fans are ready to burn him at the stake for that mediocrity. THe ONLY one on that list he HASN'T outperformed measurably is Baldwin and he won't be at EWU in three years. THe others, as you said, will probably retire at their current locales because above average is good enough for those programs.

Kramer has turned around loser programs. That takes some talent IMO. Compared to Delaney, Ash and Walsh, Kramer is a bit of an upgrade.

 

[AZGrizFan]

One might look East to ugly msu and note that R. Ash is a fine coach that does very well and will likely retire from there.
Kramer is doing a good job and will likely be at ISU for a period.
B. Baldwin coaches with great results and I expect him to jump up if he can.
Walsh at Poly is in a great place and my guess is he retires in that great place.
Jerome will probably retire at his present job.

All of the above coaches have done well and will continue to do so. When we search for a new coach we will look for one that can get similar results as the above good people. Also one that will not leave and climb. One reason that Pflugrad made good sense when he was hired.

Soon Mick will step down and the search will begin.

What? Mick has given us results EXACTLY like Walsh, Kramer and Sauewrs and Ash. And Griz fans are ready to burn him at the stake for that mediocrity. THe ONLY one on that list he HASN'T outperformed measurably is Baldwin and he won't be at EWU in three years. THe others, as you said, will probably retire at their current locales because above average is good enough for those programs.

Kramer has turned around loser programs. That takes some talent IMO. Compared to Delaney, Ash and Walsh, Kramer is a bit of an upgrade.

Kramer took over an EWU program that had gone 7-4 and 7-3 and proceeded to go 4-7, 3-8 and 6-5. He left and went to MSU after 6 or 7 years, took over a program from Cliff Hysell that had won 47% of it's games and gone 7-4, 7-4 and 6-5 and in his first year went 0-11. He never won more than 7 regular season games, and his best season was his last when he went 8-4 and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs...the way I see it, he basically took over two programs and treaded (?) water for 6-7 years and then moved on for various reasons.

But like I said, to get back into coaching he had to take the absolute worst job west of the Mississippi outside of MAYBE Northern Colorado. We'll see if a) he's as successful as it currently appears and b) if he's able to sustain it over a period of time.

 

[IdaGriz01]

...
Kramer took over an EWU program that had gone 7-4 and 7-3 and proceeded to go 4-7, 3-8 and 6-5. He left and went to MSU after 6 or 7 years, took over a program from Cliff Hysell that had won 47% of it's games and gone 7-4, 7-4 and 6-5 and in his first year went 0-11. He never won more than 7 regular season games, and his best season was his last when he went 8-4 and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs...the way I see it, he basically took over two programs and treaded (?) water for 6-7 years and then moved on for various reasons.

But like I said, to get back into coaching he had to take the absolute worst job west of the Mississippi outside of MAYBE Northern Colorado. We'll see if a) he's as successful as it currently appears and b) if he's able to sustain it over a period of time.

Won't dispute the "worst job" description. But ... it was also a "can't lose" situation (in the short run). ISU had been so bad for so long, even a mediocre year was going to look good. As you say, the test will be ... can he sustain it? Also, I suspect the Bengals will have a "deer in the headlights" experience in Bozeman. The fancy carriage turns into a pumpkin (before midnight) and kitties win, 30-17.

 

[AZGrizFan]

...
Kramer took over an EWU program that had gone 7-4 and 7-3 and proceeded to go 4-7, 3-8 and 6-5. He left and went to MSU after 6 or 7 years, took over a program from Cliff Hysell that had won 47% of it's games and gone 7-4, 7-4 and 6-5 and in his first year went 0-11. He never won more than 7 regular season games, and his best season was his last when he went 8-4 and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs...the way I see it, he basically took over two programs and treaded (?) water for 6-7 years and then moved on for various reasons.

But like I said, to get back into coaching he had to take the absolute worst job west of the Mississippi outside of MAYBE Northern Colorado. We'll see if a) he's as successful as it currently appears and b) if he's able to sustain it over a period of time.

Won't dispute the "worst job" description. But ... it was also a "can't lose" situation (in the short run). ISU had been so bad for so long, even a mediocre year was going to look good. As you say, the test will be ... can he sustain it? Also, I suspect the Bengals will have a "deer in the headlights" experience in Bozeman. The fancy carriage turns into a pumpkin (before midnight) and kitties win, 30-17.

Well, if mediocre looks good, he's already cleared that hurdle by a mile. And agreed on the "can't lose" scenario. A couple years like this and they'll name the stadium/field/plaza after him. :lol:

 

[EWURanger29]

Kramer took over an EWU program that had gone 7-4 and 7-3 and proceeded to go 4-7, 3-8 and 6-5. He left and went to MSU after 6 or 7 years, took over a program from Cliff Hysell that had won 47% of it's games and gone 7-4, 7-4 and 6-5 and in his first year went 0-11. He never won more than 7 regular season games, and his best season was his last when he went 8-4 and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs...the way I see it, he basically took over two programs and treaded (?) water for 6-7 years and then moved on for various reasons.

Well, to be fair, he did take EWU to the semi's in 1997 before losing to Youngstown State.

 

[CV Griz Fan]

One might look East to ugly msu and note that R. Ash is a fine coach that does very well and will likely retire from there.
Kramer is doing a good job and will likely be at ISU for a period.
B. Baldwin coaches with great results and I expect him to jump up if he can.
Walsh at Poly is in a great place and my guess is he retires in that great place.
Jerome will probably retire at his present job.

All of the above coaches have done well and will continue to do so. When we search for a new coach we will look for one that can get similar results as the above good people. Also one that will not leave and climb. One reason that Pflugrad made good sense when he was hired.

Soon Mick will step down and the search will begin.

What? Mick has given us results EXACTLY like Walsh, Kramer and Sauewrs and Ash. And Griz fans are ready to burn him at the stake for that mediocrity. THe ONLY one on that list he HASN'T outperformed measurably is Baldwin and he won't be at EWU in three years. THe others, as you said, will probably retire at their current locales because above average is good enough for those programs.

Kramer has turned around loser programs. That takes some talent IMO. Compared to Delaney, Ash and Walsh, Kramer is a bit of an upgrade.

Kramer took over an EWU program that had gone 7-4 and 7-3 and proceeded to go 4-7, 3-8 and 6-5. He left and went to MSU after 6 or 7 years, took over a program from Cliff Hysell that had won 47% of it's games and gone 7-4, 7-4 and 6-5 and in his first year went 0-11. He never won more than 7 regular season games, and his best season was his last when he went 8-4 and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs...the way I see it, he basically took over two programs and treaded (?) water for 6-7 years and then moved on for various reasons.

But like I said, to get back into coaching he had to take the absolute worst job west of the Mississippi outside of MAYBE Northern Colorado. We'll see if a) he's as successful as it currently appears and b) if he's able to sustain it over a period of time.

Agreed but MSU had kinda been all over the board before he got there. Solomonson was a train crash and Hycell had a couple of ok years. When Kramer took MSU to the playoffs those few years the Cats hadn't been in almost 20 years. Even Arnold had horrible years other then the 1984 title season. It wasn't like Kramer was taken over at UM. I know he left MSU in disgrace but he should be given some credit for a turn around. But your right, ISU will be
his crucible.

 

[tnt]

If your players stay out of jail, the news paper, if they graduate, the team maintains/improves APR, and if the team progresses in the playoffs, we'll give you another one-year contract next year. :lol:

Probably. Tnt, do you have the numbers or not?

The exact numbers, no, They are worth 45k not counting camps or personal appearance fees. IF you can trust the Missoulian. It puts him in the top 1/3 of FCS coaches and his base less than MSU. Ther is also incentive pay for assistants

There was a lengthy negotiation over RP contract because of his inability to earn those incentives. I believe the finally settled on 44k

Brint can prolly confirm it but I bekieve the incentives can be privatley funded. Whether the BOR caps it, I don't know. The privatley funded portion while not a "state" expense is included in the contract, but the state is on the hook if the privste money doesn't come through.

 

[IdaGriz01]

From our perspective here in Idaho Falls, Kramer is already practically a God in Pokie. Every win (almost) sets off the same conversation along the lines: Wow! We haven't beat [whoever] since [sometime in the last century]! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[CDAGRIZ]

If your players stay out of jail, the news paper, if they graduate, the team maintains/improves APR, and if the team progresses in the playoffs, we'll give you another one-year contract next year. :lol:

Probably. Tnt, do you have the numbers or not?

The exact numbers, no, They are worth 45k not counting camps or personal appearance fees. IF you can trust the Missoulian. It puts him in the top 1/3 of FCS coaches and his base less than MSU. Ther is also incentive pay for assistants

There was a lengthy negotiation over RP contract because of his inability to earn those incentives. I believe the finally settled on 44k

Brint can prolly confirm it but I bekieve the incentives can be privatley funded. Whether the BOR caps it, I don't know. The privatley funded portion while not a "state" expense is included in the contract, but the state is on the hook if the privste money doesn't come through.

Cool. Thanks for the info. That's not a huge number. I wonder if someone could push through a plan where the majority of the compensation is tied to performance. Something like 160k base with incentives up to an extra 200k if the Griz go all the way. It could, in theory, pay for itself in increased revenues from hosting and winning playoff games, etc., and also maybe attract/retain some talent to the HC position. And UM wouldn't have to pay it in down years. Just a thought; I haven't really fleshed it out.

 

[AZGrizFan]

From our perspective here in Idaho Falls, Kramer is already practically a God in Pokie. Every win (almost) sets off the same conversation along the lines: Wow! We haven't beat [whoever] since [sometime in the last century]! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't doubt it. Was reaching a point where I wasnt sure we'd ever see this in my lifetime...

 

[Umista]

We will suffer a bit more until we get a good head coach. I would guess Haslam will hunt for a guy that he wants to stay around 10 years or so.

I hope it is a guy that likes to air it out and will have an exciting offense for all of us Griz fans. I doubt that will occur but I hope we see excitement similar to the Don Read period.

In any event it will be an exciting period as UM hires a new coach! Most of us will wail and cry but I think we can get a great person to run the show.

 

[AZGrizFan]

If we hire a coach who's here 10 years its going to only be because he's not successful enough to get a bigger job. I'd rather a coach be here 5 years, have a couple trips to the NC (and actually WIN) and move on...