Can Anyone Tell Me..................

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Another college football program that has had more crime in the last decade than Jim Oday/Haucks grizzlies?

Then there was this SI article http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/the_bonus/02/27/cfb.crime/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which shows for what I believe is JUST 2010:

Pitt: 22
Iowa: 18
Arkansas: 18
Boise St: 16
Penn St: 16
Va Tech: 13
Wisconsin: 9
Okalhoma: 9
FSU: 9
Miami: 8
OSU: 7
UF: 7
Oregon: 7
USC: 7

and so on. there's more.

actually that report was of players with a police record, which implies that it goes back to their jr. high and high school years. it was compiled in 2010, but wasn't just for that year. hard to say how many of those we have in a given year.

The number of players on each team in the study who were found to have police records

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/the_bonus/02/27/cfb.crime/index.html#ixzz1rB2D54iD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i would have to say ag1 is onto something here.

Dont confuse them with facts......its hard to see the real world when they have their heads up their ass.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[getgrizzy]

You forgot Wilson again , the ear biting incident with his GF when he got back.

that was in 2010 and it's listed.

 

[tnt]

You forgot Wilson again , the ear biting incident with his GF when he got back.

that was in 2010 and it's listed.

my mistake..... Time flies.

 

[fanofzoo]

This thread is truely pointless.

Alpha has nothing better to do than create jibberish threads on egriz while he runs around naked lathered in KY jelly with his cowboy boots on, lounging on his leather EZ-Chair watching fox tv, stroking it to Rush Limbaughs poster on his ceiling and posting on his circle jerk maroon whatever website.

And yes alpha I have hijacked your webcam and this on a hard drive!

In a serious note your multiple threads that got killed today, this thread and your other attack threads will not make others see your viewpoint. Many folks will never agree with what has happened. I know you want to lead the inquisition here but I would give it a rest. Your just looking stupid here.

Well said sir, well said.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

 

[BWahlberg]

griz arrests by year
2012 - 2 (donaldson,maus)
2011 - 6 (kemp twice, johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 5 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius, stuberg)
2008 - 9 (freeman 3, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 2 (joyce, parks)
2006 - 2 (smith, waller)
2005 - 2 (segars, walden)

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 3 (peeples, petek, raynock)
players accused, not arrested - 9 (in fairness i won't list any of these)

I would like to point out that Kemp was only arrested once, he was just cited for public urination. Also Freeman's "3" was 1 here and finding two priors from years before that the staff/team was unaware of. What was Joyce's in 2007? Don't recall that one.

Also Stuberg in 2009 was not arrested nor cited at that fight where Von Appen, Montelious, and and Douglass were eventually arrested and kicked off the team. He left the scene before the fight happened and was never charged with anything. You list his DUI in 2010, he's only had 1 charge.

Also Smith and Waller were back in 2003/04 I believe.

Your ex-players is associated with players either long removed from the program or events that happened quite a while ago.

 

[garizzalies]

Player, this is what your post looked like to me:

Other than felonies...
JJ-slap on the wrist.
Kemp/Johnson - slap on the wrist.
Middleton - slap on the wrist.
Montana - slap on the wrist.
Wilson - slap on the wrist.
Stuberg - slap on the wrist.
Johnson/Swink - slap on the wrist.
Quinn dui - slap on the wrist.
other dui's - slap on the wrist.
Disorderly conduct - slap on the wrist.

 

[BWahlberg]

Another college football program that has had more crime in the last decade than Jim Oday/Haucks grizzlies?

Then there was this SI article http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/the_bonus/02/27/cfb.crime/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which shows for what I believe is JUST 2010:

Pitt: 22
Iowa: 18
Arkansas: 18
Boise St: 16
Penn St: 16
Va Tech: 13
Wisconsin: 9
Okalhoma: 9
FSU: 9
Miami: 8
OSU: 7
UF: 7
Oregon: 7
USC: 7

and so on. there's more.

actually that report was of players with a police record, which implies that it goes back to their jr. high and high school years. it was compiled in 2010, but wasn't just for that year. hard to say how many of those we have in a given year.

The number of players on each team in the study who were found to have police records

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/the_bonus/02/27/cfb.crime/index.html#ixzz1rB2D54iD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i would have to say ag1 is onto something here.

Dont confuse them with facts......its hard to see the real world when they have their heads up their ass.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

As I originally said and expected this to happen, I was intending to defend the actions or arrests, but merely point out that these kinds of things happen to a lot of programs as well. Your original intent, which I assume was to suggest that under O'Day/Hauck/Pflu the Griz were the single most crime-ridden team int the nation, is incorrect.

However, the issue at hand is that being associated with schools on this type of account, arrests/crimes/former records... is terrible. This nothing I am proud of nor supportive of.

 

[BWahlberg]

I'm re-doing getgrizzy's, based on some quick reserach:

griz arrests by year
2012 - 3 (donaldson, maus)
2011 - 5 (kemp, Tru johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3(badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 4 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius)
2008 - 7 (freeman, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 1 (parks)
2006 - 0
2005 - 0

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 1 Roots

Kemp changed to once, Stuberg only once for the DUI, no evidence I can find on any Tyler Joyce arrest, Smith/Waller was in 2003/04. No record of a Segars arrest in 2005. Willie Walden's arrest occured in 2004, Kaiman link won't open. Added Roots in as a former player with an arrest.

The number is still bad, while getting to 0 over the long-run is probably impossible because things do happen (for example a cleaned up MSU still had the Trammel bar fight) but I would personally like to see things more like the 2005 - 2007 years instead of the more recent, in terms of arrests.

 

[tnt]

There are actual arrests, plea bargains, charges and "investigations." I guess those are "facts" But there are also "perceptions" which seem to be awfully important. Important enough they are included in the contract:

In regard to all football student-athletes, the Coach, and any other member of the
coaching football staff:
a. There are no violations of the University's Student Conduct code that results in
any actions by the Office of Student Affairs; and,
b. There are no violations of the Athletic Department's Student-Athlete Conduct
Code; and,
c. There are no misdemeanor or felony arrests, indictments, or convictions for any
criminal or suspected criminal conduct; and,
d. There has occurred no neglect or willful conduct which the Athletic Director
concludes violates the NCAA constitution or the NCAA Operating Bylaws,
especially those pertaining to ethical conduct.

I only mention this because they are included in the incentive portion of the contract. Of course failure of those incentives in any coaching contract has lead to many a coach being asked to move on. I might also point out that the number allowed was ZERO.

Seems as a lot of us missed just how important perception is.....

 

[getgrizzy]

griz arrests by year
2012 - 2 (donaldson,maus)
2011 - 6 (kemp twice, johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 5 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius, stuberg)
2008 - 9 (freeman 3, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 2 (joyce, parks)
2006 - 2 (smith, waller)
2005 - 2 (segars, walden)

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 3 (peeples, petek, raynock)
players accused, not arrested - 9 (in fairness i won't list any of these)

I would like to point out that Kemp was only arrested once, he was just cited for public urination. Also Freeman's "3" was 1 here and finding two priors from years before that the staff/team was unaware of. What was Joyce's in 2007? Don't recall that one.

Also Stuberg in 2009 was not arrested nor cited at that fight where Von Appen, Montelious, and and Douglass were eventually arrested and kicked off the team. He left the scene before the fight happened and was never charged with anything. You list his DUI in 2010, he's only had 1 charge.

Also Smith and Waller were back in 2003/04 I believe.

Your ex-players is associated with players either long removed from the program or events that happened quite a while ago.

yeah, arrest is probably the wrong word for that list. i'm not even sure what the difference between a citation and arrest is. one is a ticket and one is stuff'd-n-cuff'd? but its still on record.

freeman was charged with an assault prior to coming here. according to the newspapers he was arrested when he fled the scene in california, assault downtown, and aggravated burglary as separate crimes.

Freeman was at the scene of every violent crime involving a Montana Grizzly within the past six months. He was there when Jimmy Wilson allegedly shot and killed Kevin Smoot, he was at the scene of these robberies and he was there when he allegedly hit one woman outside a bar and when he allegedly choked his girlfriend.

http://www.grizzoulian.com/tags/qwenton-freeman/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
stuberg wasn't charged, but i believe he was arrested or implicated initially.

even if you remove all of those that's still 22 in five years with 2012 still having over 7 months to go. so two more to tie florida.

 

[GRZFTBL]

So what we want are 100 PERFECT kids? Sorry, won't happen. Wouldn't happen if God was our coach.

I think our Prez overreacted. Y'all know, like the "first time". We all wanted it to last longer but it just felt like "letting loose" was the best thing to do.

 

[BWahlberg]

my count shows 25 (including Roots as a former player arrested) over 7.25 year (YTD) about 3.4 per year, a number way to high.

Thanks for clarifying getgrizzy.

 

[getgrizzy]

I'm re-doing getgrizzy's, based on some quick reserach:

griz arrests by year
2012 - 3 (donaldson, maus)
2011 - 5 (kemp, Tru johnson, middleton, montana, duncan)
2010 - 3 (badger, stuberg, wilson)
2009 - 4 (quinn, douglas, von appen, montelius)
2008 - 7 (freeman, quinn, wilson, coleman, pate, shelton, stapp)
2007 - 1 (parks)
2006 - 0
2005 - 0

players that transferred in with arrests - 5 (freeman, coleman, russum, frank, middleton)
ex-players arrested - 1 Roots

Kemp changed to once, Stuberg only once for the DUI, no evidence I can find on any Tyler Joyce arrest, Smith/Waller was in 2003/04. No record of a Segars arrest in 2005. Willie Walden's arrest occured in 2004, Kaiman link won't open. Added Roots in as a former player with an arrest.

The number is still bad, while getting to 0 over the long-run is probably impossible because things do happen (for example a cleaned up MSU still had the Trammel bar fight) but I would personally like to see things more like the 2005 - 2007 years instead of the more recent, in terms of arrests.

joyce was arrested for dui.

Joyce, who was charged with a DUI, said he heard of Ryan "through the grapevine" and other players echoed Joyce. None remembered exactly where they heard his name, just that they knew of him, and in the end they were all happy with his work.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/news/the-last-defense-the-rise-of-missoula-attorney-paul-ryan-1.1722317?pagereq=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

segars is referenced in the same story.

even one who had charges dropped after trial (Segars).

so is walden.

Lex Hilliard, running back, #38; Clint Stapp, quarterback, #16; Levander Segars, wide receiver, #1; Willie Walden, tight end, #87; J.D. Quinn, center, #69; Tyler Joyce, linebacker, #6; Justin Montelius, safety, #41; Jimmy Wilson, cornerback, #21.

i agree a couple things a year is tolerable.

 

[cclarkblues]

my count shows 25 (including Roots as a former player arrested) over 7.25 year (YTD) about 3.4 per year, a number way to high.

Thanks for clarifying getgrizzy.

So, are any of them still on the team, and if so why?

 

[BWahlberg]

So what we want are 100 PERFECT kids? Sorry, won't happen. Wouldn't happen if God was our coach.

I think our Prez overreacted. Y'all know, like the "first time". We all wanted it to last longer but it just felt like "letting loose" was the best thing to do.

Things happen, players get in fights, sometimes guys have too much to drink and try to drive home, stuff like that occurs - college kids being dumb kids (heck adults do these dumb things as well).

The issue that comes up that requires more action and attention are the more violent crimes and this team has had a few bouts of that which is really unbecoming of the Griz. While I don't know if Engstrom's actions were the right ones (my heart and mind still believes they aren't) I do think something had to / has to be done.

However if Engstrom thinks putting in a panel to review player discipline and firing the HC and AD will solve the problem... I think he's wrong. I believe the UM with both Delaney as it's current coach and with it's next HC needs to add in an incentive/punishment system for all of the coaches and players to uphold team standards. Put in some wiggle room, because yes, things happen, but set a benchmark - reward the team for keeping under it, punish the team for going over it. If the whole team was held more accountable all the time for the actions of one player doing some real dumb stuff they'd be more diligent to either stop the action or voice concerns to other team leaders/staff/coaches that a kid might be a bad seed.

 

[BWahlberg]

my count shows 25 (including Roots as a former player arrested) over 7.25 year (YTD) about 3.4 per year, a number way to high.

Thanks for clarifying getgrizzy.

So, are any of them still on the team, and if so why?

Lets see as best I recall of the 25:

12 arrests/events the players were not kicked off the team (3 are still on the 2012 roster, Montana, Kemp, Stuberg)
12 were kicked off the team
1 happened once the player was done playing

 

[getgrizzy]

So what we want are 100 PERFECT kids? Sorry, won't happen. Wouldn't happen if God was our coach.

I think our Prez overreacted. Y'all know, like the "first time". We all wanted it to last longer but it just felt like "letting loose" was the best thing to do.

Things happen, players get in fights, sometimes guys have too much to drink and try to drive home, stuff like that occurs - college kids being dumb kids (heck adults do these dumb things as well).

The issue that comes up that requires more action and attention are the more violent crimes and this team has had a few bouts of that which is really unbecoming of the Griz. While I don't know if Engstrom's actions were the right ones (my heart and mind still believes they aren't) I do think something had to / has to be done.

However if Engstrom thinks putting in a panel to review player discipline and firing the HC and AD will solve the problem... I think he's wrong. I believe the UM with both Delaney as it's current coach and with it's next HC needs to add in an incentive/punishment system for all of the coaches and players to uphold team standards. Put in some wiggle room, because yes, things happen, but set a benchmark - reward the team for keeping under it, punish the team for going over it. If the whole team was held more accountable all the time for the actions of one player doing some real dumb stuff they'd be more diligent to either stop the action or voice concerns to other team leaders/staff/coaches that a kid might be a bad seed.

our players live in a bubble partially created by the big time boosters and fans in general. too many people pay too much attention to them to a point where some of them begin to think damn near anything goes. if people would tone down their adoration it would help. guys like oday and pflu, especially oday, could've done things to curb this stuff, but i think oday was influenced by the big boosters. i think he was predisposed to being influenced/used by them, but influenced nonetheless.

 

[BWahlberg]

I don't know if they live in a bubble, heck every little mis-step made now is front page of the Missoulian.

I think it should additionally be pointed out that even if you round up the number of incidents per year to 4 on average (way to high to be acceptable) you're looking at about 4 in 75 that are getting in trouble. So about 95% of each year's football team is being unfairly tossed under the bus due to the actions of a select few. I think "the good" this team and these kids do as a whole FAR outweighs the bad, however all of the community/civic action these boys take on and do doesn't sell newspapers.

 

[getgrizzy]

I don't know if they live in a bubble, heck every little mis-step made now is front page of the Missoulian.

I think it should additionally be pointed out that even if you round up the number of incidents per year to 4 on average (way to high to be acceptable) you're looking at about 4 in 75 that are getting in trouble. So about 95% of each year's football team is being unfairly tossed under the bus due to the actions of a select few. I think "the good" this team and these kids do as a whole FAR outweighs the bad, however all of the community/civic action these boys take on and do doesn't sell newspapers.

the expression means that they are oblivious to what's going on around them, such as the criticism, and continue on living the way they do. it was a bit of an exaggeration. being in the missoulian alot produces the expression of living under a microscope.

we, as fans, need to stop treating these guys like who they are, which is student-athletes, developing young men that need a little encouragement with their schoolwork and football, not adoration. they don't need a paparazzi, they need mentors.

 

[GrizMusician]

I don't know if they live in a bubble, heck every little mis-step made now is front page of the Missoulian.

I think it should additionally be pointed out that even if you round up the number of incidents per year to 4 on average (way to high to be acceptable) you're looking at about 4 in 75 that are getting in trouble. So about 95% of each year's football team is being unfairly tossed under the bus due to the actions of a select few. I think "the good" this team and these kids do as a whole FAR outweighs the bad, however all of the community/civic action these boys take on and do doesn't sell newspapers.

the expression means that they are oblivious to what's going on around them, such as the criticism, and continue on living the way they do. it was a bit of an exaggeration. being in the missoulian alot produces the expression of living under a microscope.

we, as fans, need to stop treating these guys like who they are, which is student-athletes, developing young men that need a little encouragement with their schoolwork and football, not adoration. they don't need a paparazzi, they need mentors.

Well said getgrizzy.