Bison - loaded again

[4theluvofgriz]

I always come back to the quotes of wise man Winston Churchill and he has one of relevance to this exchange:

“The first duty of the university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we do not want a world of engineers.”

:clap: :thumb: :clap:

Engineers will never be leaders. They are minions doing the grunt work for visionaries. MSU graduates a bunch of pencil-protecting clones who will revel in the trenches while the innovators rise to lead the charge. Cat fans get a woody talking about starting salaries after college, but they never want to discuss what these engineers will be making in 15 years.

 

[tourist]

How many lawyers do we need?

The nursing program at MSU I hear is one of the best in the west, we need lots of nurses!

Lawyers: None.
Nursing Program: As of about 30 years ago, MSU had a 96℅ pass rate on National Nursing Board Exam. We continue to have a 'nursing shortage' due to nursing mis-management, among other factors, nationally. Not just a Montana phenomenon.

 

[dayday]

It won’t matter, A.I. will replace a need for any of these jobs...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

If it ain't broke then don't fix it. The Griz could learn from that. Hauck moved on and Pfluffy decided he knew better. Then somewhat back to Coach Delaney. Coach Delaney retires and Haslam hears about a good offense and hires the Stitt show.
Meanwhile I imaging some of the players and many fans were think what's next during those years.
I have said before that I think the Griz need to decide what brand of football is played at the University of Montana. Then set a course and stick with it.
It's like a business plan, a construction blueprint, a medical care plan. Decide what the hell it is and stay the course but allow for minor plan amendments if needed.

Honest question (because it’s been 9 years and I don’t remember): Who (on or off Hauck’s ‘09 staff) would have been that “Kielman” guy who would have kept it going without blowing it up and going an entirely different direction like Pflu did?

The success of NDSU is more about the system than it is about Kleiman. Is he a great coach? Hell yes he is. But there are many head coaches who could have inherited that program and produced the same results. Success begets success, just like our 4 Griz head coaches (Read, Dennehy,Glenn, & Hauck) who inherited great rosters and kept the dynasty going.

I’ll be honest I don’t follow NDSU football closely enough to know whether Kielman changed the “system” or by how much. My question was more related to the poster I was responding to, who felt that UM needed to determine a style and stick with it, regardless of who the coach was...Obviously the style here shifted dramatically from Read to Dennehy to Glenn to Hauck, so I’m not sure that the argument is even logical....we saw 25 years of unprecedented success for four different schemes...sure the changes were maybe fairly subtle at first, but certainly not by the time BH’s first tenure came to an end. His later teams looked nothing like Read’s or Denneny’s....

Teams are recruited and built around the style of play. Therefore it seems more than logical that if you take a team built to play Hauck's power style offense and flip it to something like the Stitt show or Pfluf ball the lineup may not match and as such the team struggles.
That is not to say the style of play can not be amended as needed but to have a new coach come in to reinvent the wheel with the existing players? I think that leads to difficulties. How many times has it posted to give the new coach a chance and wait until he gets "his" players?
NDSU has built a solid business plan and has executed it pretty much flawlessly. Opposing teams pretty much know what to expect from the Bison suit up each year. Yet they continue to succeed because of their consistency.
Who would have been a better fit than Pfuf for Hauck's crew? I think there were many but in house? Ty Gregorak comes to mind.

 

[runtheoption]

So to summarize this thread:

How many liberal arts graduates does it take to dethrone the Bison?

One, if he uses enough gravy and butter while cooking at THE OCB-Fargo.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

There’s that phrase again: “AG Program.”

We hear the same thing from Cat People.

Do farmers seriously need to be taught how to spread shit around?

Yes pretty evolving field and you certainly have a competitive edge in the areas of Ag Systems Management, AG Engineering, AG Econ. Several large companies, ADM, Cargill, DuPont recruit students at NDSU for careers outside of “spreading shit” and offer extremely high salaries.

I’ll just say this. Liberal arts degrees are next to worthless in today’s society. Unless you have money from mommy and daddy, it simply makes next to zero sense, financially speaking, to get a degree in communications, journalism etc versus going into a high demand field like nursing, pharmacy and engineering.

You're not wrong....but you're not right.

Ha well done! That liberal arts education shows well!

Isn’t anything against UM. Georgeous campus. Great college town.....but if I’m paying for my own education, I’m going to look into a field where my education pays off immediately. I know UM has a good B school and strong science programs but outside of that, what is the allure academically? Journalism and communication? Save your money...

I think you left out Business,Pharmacy, Physical Therapy, Law, Life Sciences, Foresty plus more.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

Honest question (because it’s been 9 years and I don’t remember): Who (on or off Hauck’s ‘09 staff) would have been that “Kielman” guy who would have kept it going without blowing it up and going an entirely different direction like Pflu did?

The success of NDSU is more about the system than it is about Kleiman. Is he a great coach? Hell yes he is. But there are many head coaches who could have inherited that program and produced the same results. Success begets success, just like our 4 Griz head coaches (Read, Dennehy,Glenn, & Hauck) who inherited great rosters and kept the dynasty going.

I’ll be honest I don’t follow NDSU football closely enough to know whether Kielman changed the “system” or by how much. My question was more related to the poster I was responding to, who felt that UM needed to determine a style and stick with it, regardless of who the coach was...Obviously the style here shifted dramatically from Read to Dennehy to Glenn to Hauck, so I’m not sure that the argument is even logical....we saw 25 years of unprecedented success for four different schemes...sure the changes were maybe fairly subtle at first, but certainly not by the time BH’s first tenure came to an end. His later teams looked nothing like Read’s or Denneny’s....

I partially agree except Read to Dennehy was no change. Dennehy to Glenn, not a lot of change after they dumped the first OC Glenn hired. Glenn to Hauck was a big change, but Hauck did an amazing job of recruiting his first year and he had a good coaching staff. After that we had a huge change in style every time and every time the new coach tried to run his O using players recruited for the old style instead of slowly changing using the strength of the current players. I think Phlu was on his way to being a UM coaching legend until RE got involved. Personally I love Hauck (though not his DC pick) coming back, but I do not predict a lot of first year success this time around. I will consider it a good year if we break 500.
As for Bison, I 100% agree, they, like EWU benefit in a big way recruiting near/in states with large populations with much less competition.

I remember a young Coach Hauck say how the Griz were going to light up the scoreboard shartly after he was hired. Then they played JMU in Chatanooga and those big lineman dominated a smaller Griz team.
At the press conference after the game either the JMU coach or a player said they won becasue they played a different kind of football. I suspect this experience had a deep impression on a young coach.

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

The success of NDSU is more about the system than it is about Kleiman. Is he a great coach? Hell yes he is. But there are many head coaches who could have inherited that program and produced the same results. Success begets success, just like our 4 Griz head coaches (Read, Dennehy,Glenn, & Hauck) who inherited great rosters and kept the dynasty going.

I’ll be honest I don’t follow NDSU football closely enough to know whether Kielman changed the “system” or by how much. My question was more related to the poster I was responding to, who felt that UM needed to determine a style and stick with it, regardless of who the coach was...Obviously the style here shifted dramatically from Read to Dennehy to Glenn to Hauck, so I’m not sure that the argument is even logical....we saw 25 years of unprecedented success for four different schemes...sure the changes were maybe fairly subtle at first, but certainly not by the time BH’s first tenure came to an end. His later teams looked nothing like Read’s or Denneny’s....

I partially agree except Read to Dennehy was no change. Dennehy to Glenn, not a lot of change after they dumped the first OC Glenn hired. Glenn to Hauck was a big change, but Hauck did an amazing job of recruiting his first year and he had a good coaching staff. After that we had a huge change in style every time and every time the new coach tried to run his O using players recruited for the old style instead of slowly changing using the strength of the current players. I think Phlu was on his way to being a UM coaching legend until RE got involved. Personally I love Hauck (though not his DC pick) coming back, but I do not predict a lot of first year success this time around. I will consider it a good year if we break 500.
As for Bison, I 100% agree, they, like EWU benefit in a big way recruiting near/in states with large populations with much less competition.

I remember a young Coach Hauck say how the Griz were going to light up the scoreboard shartly after he was hired. Then they played JMU in Chatanooga and those big lineman dominated a smaller Griz team.
At the press conference after the game either the JMU coach or a player said they won becasue they played a different kind of football. I suspect this experience had a deep impression on a young coach.

I remember a young Bobby Hauck having his #3 ranked Griz suffer an embarrassing loss to a mediocre D2 team in his first home game.

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

There’s that phrase again: “AG Program.”

We hear the same thing from Cat People.

Do farmers seriously need to be taught how to spread shit around?

Yes pretty evolving field and you certainly have a competitive edge in the areas of Ag Systems Management, AG Engineering, AG Econ. Several large companies, ADM, Cargill, DuPont recruit students at NDSU for careers outside of “spreading shit” and offer extremely high salaries.

I’ll just say this. Liberal arts degrees are next to worthless in today’s society. Unless you have money from mommy and daddy, it simply makes next to zero sense, financially speaking, to get a degree in communications, journalism etc versus going into a high demand field like nursing, pharmacy and engineering.

My two cents. If UM offered degrees in fields that matter, it would have a booming enrollment because the campus is georgeous and the community of Missoula, combined with geographic area, is great.

So, basically, you want a trade school.

They could then rename NDSU to EWU East

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

I always come back to the quotes of wise man Winston Churchill and he has one of relevance to this exchange:

“The first duty of the university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we do not want a world of engineers.”

+100

 

[Blgs Griz Fan]

I’ll be honest I don’t follow NDSU football closely enough to know whether Kielman changed the “system” or by how much. My question was more related to the poster I was responding to, who felt that UM needed to determine a style and stick with it, regardless of who the coach was...Obviously the style here shifted dramatically from Read to Dennehy to Glenn to Hauck, so I’m not sure that the argument is even logical....we saw 25 years of unprecedented success for four different schemes...sure the changes were maybe fairly subtle at first, but certainly not by the time BH’s first tenure came to an end. His later teams looked nothing like Read’s or Denneny’s....

I partially agree except Read to Dennehy was no change. Dennehy to Glenn, not a lot of change after they dumped the first OC Glenn hired. Glenn to Hauck was a big change, but Hauck did an amazing job of recruiting his first year and he had a good coaching staff. After that we had a huge change in style every time and every time the new coach tried to run his O using players recruited for the old style instead of slowly changing using the strength of the current players. I think Phlu was on his way to being a UM coaching legend until RE got involved. Personally I love Hauck (though not his DC pick) coming back, but I do not predict a lot of first year success this time around. I will consider it a good year if we break 500.
As for Bison, I 100% agree, they, like EWU benefit in a big way recruiting near/in states with large populations with much less competition.

I remember a young Coach Hauck say how the Griz were going to light up the scoreboard shartly after he was hired. Then they played JMU in Chatanooga and those big lineman dominated a smaller Griz team.
At the press conference after the game either the JMU coach or a player said they won becasue they played a different kind of football. I suspect this experience had a deep impression on a young coach.

I remember a young Bobby Hauck having his #3 ranked Griz suffer an embarrassing loss to a mediocre D2 team in his first home game.

I seem to remember the last time the Bissson played in Missoula in front of a national audience they ... well I am pretty sure you remember the outcome as well. You can Counts on it.

 

[Grizzoola]

Teams are recruited and built around the style of play. Therefore it seems more than logical that if you take a team built to play Hauck's power style offense and flip it to something like the Stitt show or Pfluf ball the lineup may not match and as such the team struggles.

As I recall, there were many eGrizzers complaining about BH's style: dull, and not winning the NC. Then, when BH left, there was this insane desire to go back to the days of Don Read, Dave Dickenson, and the "Air Read" concept. I believe the ADs gave to Griz fans what they wanted, which resulted in where we are now.

Yes, NDSU's style wins for them, as it has for decades. It's time, now w/ BH back, that Griz fans settle for BH/Bison style football & quit complaining. I recall Chase Reynolds' runs as exciting as any up-tempo style of Pflu or Stitt.

 

[RayWill]

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

I partially agree except Read to Dennehy was no change. Dennehy to Glenn, not a lot of change after they dumped the first OC Glenn hired. Glenn to Hauck was a big change, but Hauck did an amazing job of recruiting his first year and he had a good coaching staff. After that we had a huge change in style every time and every time the new coach tried to run his O using players recruited for the old style instead of slowly changing using the strength of the current players. I think Phlu was on his way to being a UM coaching legend until RE got involved. Personally I love Hauck (though not his DC pick) coming back, but I do not predict a lot of first year success this time around. I will consider it a good year if we break 500.
As for Bison, I 100% agree, they, like EWU benefit in a big way recruiting near/in states with large populations with much less competition.

I remember a young Coach Hauck say how the Griz were going to light up the scoreboard shartly after he was hired. Then they played JMU in Chatanooga and those big lineman dominated a smaller Griz team.
At the press conference after the game either the JMU coach or a player said they won becasue they played a different kind of football. I suspect this experience had a deep impression on a young coach.

I remember a young Bobby Hauck having his #3 ranked Griz suffer an embarrassing loss to a mediocre D2 team in his first home game.

I seem to remember the last time the Bissson played in Missoula in front of a national audience they ... well I am pretty sure you remember the outcome as well. You can Counts on it.

Lol do you think you guys will ever let go of that game? I mean I understand that might be a top 3 win in your program's history, but I would have forgot about it the minute I watched my team get their ass handed to them 37-6 in a playoff game.....Maybe one day you will hang a banner to acknowledge that win.

That smoke filled exhibition game was the best thing that ever happened to NDSU. Gave all of those freshmen defensive players a taste of game action and helped position them to later win a championship.

 

[CatGrad-UMGradStu]

I remember a young Coach Hauck say how the Griz were going to light up the scoreboard shartly after he was hired. Then they played JMU in Chatanooga and those big lineman dominated a smaller Griz team.
At the press conference after the game either the JMU coach or a player said they won becasue they played a different kind of football. I suspect this experience had a deep impression on a young coach.

I remember a young Bobby Hauck having his #3 ranked Griz suffer an embarrassing loss to a mediocre D2 team in his first home game.

I seem to remember the last time the Bissson played in Missoula in front of a national audience they ... well I am pretty sure you remember the outcome as well. You can Counts on it.

Lol do you think you guys will ever let go of that game? I mean I understand that might be a top 3 win in your program's history, but I would have forgot about it the minute I watched my team get their ass handed to them 37-6 in a playoff game.....Maybe one day you will hang a banner to acknowledge that win.

That smoke filled exhibition game was the best thing that ever happened to NDSU. Gave all of those freshmen defensive players a taste of game action and helped position them to later win a championship.

In my perfect playoff bracket, the two North Dakota schools will play the two Montana schools in the playoffs this year. Then, I can tailgate with all my relatives who litter my facebook mocking the three schools they did not attend or play for--especially the former linemen reliving their glory days and they haven't been able to bend over and tie their shoes in thirty years.

I love to get together with them and listen to their stories before they get too drunk and obnoxious...

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I remember a young Coach Hauck say how the Griz were going to light up the scoreboard shartly after he was hired. Then they played JMU in Chatanooga and those big lineman dominated a smaller Griz team.
At the press conference after the game either the JMU coach or a player said they won becasue they played a different kind of football. I suspect this experience had a deep impression on a young coach.

I remember a young Bobby Hauck having his #3 ranked Griz suffer an embarrassing loss to a mediocre D2 team in his first home game.

I seem to remember the last time the Bissson played in Missoula in front of a national audience they ... well I am pretty sure you remember the outcome as well. You can Counts on it.

Lol do you think you guys will ever let go of that game?

Two posts above, kiddo. This isn't very difficult. I understand that UNDSU isn't a very good university, but it must teach this kind of thing at some point, right? Maybe in a seed planting or mammal milking class?

 

[TxGriz]

I read as much of this as I could. I see where Minnesota isn’t much competition for the cream of the crop and that point is understandable, but what about Nebraska?

I suppose that NDSU, as good as they are, are still not in Nebraska or Wisconsin’s league?

 

[CDAGRIZ]

I read as much of this as I could. I see where Minnesota isn’t much competition for the cream of the crop and that point is understandable, but what about Nebraska?

I suppose that NDSU, as good as they are, are still not in Nebraska or Wisconsin’s league?

Oh, they definitely are, just ask them. Or don't. They'll tell you all about it either way.

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

I remember a young Bobby Hauck having his #3 ranked Griz suffer an embarrassing loss to a mediocre D2 team in his first home game.

I seem to remember the last time the Bissson played in Missoula in front of a national audience they ... well I am pretty sure you remember the outcome as well. You can Counts on it.

Lol do you think you guys will ever let go of that game?

Two posts above, kiddo. This isn't very difficult. I understand that UNDSU isn't a very good university, but it must teach this kind of thing at some point, right? Maybe in a seed planting or mammal milking class?

Ha I just remember it as being funny as NDSU was not a good team. Didn’t even make the D2 playoffs that year. I certainly wouldn’t mention it if NDSU had gotten beat down by 31 later in the year by Montana.

Is that 2015 game Montana’s worst playoff loss?

 

[2011BisonAlumni]

I read as much of this as I could. I see where Minnesota isn’t much competition for the cream of the crop and that point is understandable, but what about Nebraska?

I suppose that NDSU, as good as they are, are still not in Nebraska or Wisconsin’s league?

Oh, they definitely are, just ask them. Or don't. They'll tell you all about it either way.

I’d bet quite a bit of money on NDSU beating Nebraska right now. Actually I’d probably take any NDSU team over the past 7 years over any product Nebraska put on the field.

Wisconsin .....no

Either way, those schools will not pick up the phone to play NDSU.