Billings Jumps Into The Rape Race

[sdgriz_24]

Missoula-121 rapes per 100,000 people the last three years
Billings- 165 per 100,000

Interesting

 

[bingo]

Missoula-121 rapes per 100,000 people the last three years
Billings- 165 per 100,000

Interesting

Ever think that the reason there are fewer rapes in Missoula is because the city, county and Um have all been doing nothing about them so that fewer are reported?

Isn't that what the feds are looking into?

I think that the number of reported rapes in the different Montana cities is a very small part of the data set and really tells us nothing.

 

[Hammer]

Missoula-121 rapes per 100,000 people the last three years
Billings- 165 per 100,000

Interesting

Definitely time for Rockys HC and AD to get their walking papers. This is unacceptable! :x

 

[bisonboone11]

Missoula-121 rapes per 100,000 people the last three years
Billings- 165 per 100,000

Interesting

Using these statistics is pointless. First of all, the FBI had a very narrow definition of rape for their statistics prior to 2012. There were 80 "rapes" according to the FBI's definition of rape, which wouldn't have included a woman being raped after being drugged or passed out, or if it was anything but a man forcibly having sexual intercourse with a woman. None of us have any idea what that number would be under the FBI's new, more accurate definition of rape. Second, rape is one of the most under-reported crimes. Third, if Missoula truly isn't handling the reports properly, don't you think that could make them less likely to report the crimes?

 

[PlayerRep]

Missoula-121 rapes per 100,000 people the last three years
Billings- 165 per 100,000

Interesting

Using these statistics is pointless. First of all, the FBI had a very narrow definition of rape for their statistics prior to 2012. There were 80 "rapes" according to the FBI's definition of rape, which wouldn't have included a woman being raped after being drugged or passed out, or if it was anything but a man forcibly having sexual intercourse with a woman. None of us have any idea what that number would be under the FBI's new, more accurate definition of rape. Second, rape is one of the most under-reported crimes. Third, if Missoula truly isn't handling the reports properly, don't you think that could make them less likely to report the crimes?

What is "pointless" is your post, as well as most of your other posts. Comparative rape stats have significant meaning. Your statements about not knowing what the new FBI stats will show and rape being underreported are pointless and irrelevant, in discussing comparative rape stats. That's another discussion, and not the one being had in the post you quoted. You know little or nothing about the Missoula situation, and your posts add nothing to the discussion.

 

[wbtfg]

For those who haven't read today's article, not a lot of new info, but I thought there were a few interesting tidbits.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/civil-investigation-of-alleged-missoula-sex-assaults-a-first-for/article_08bc1274-97fd-11e1-bb57-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tnt]

There is no reason not to report rapes in Missoula. They have plenty of hand outs explaining why they won't prosecute because its too hard to get a conviction, so why bother. Their time is better spent with speed traps on the Orange street bridge.

 

[PlayerRep]

For those who haven't read today's article, not a lot of new info, but I thought there were a few interesting tidbits.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/civil-investigation-of-alleged-missoula-sex-assaults-a-first-for/article_08bc1274-97fd-11e1-bb57-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As alluded to in the article, DOJ ought to be investigating itself, the FBI and US attorneys offices near Indian reservations, as there is significant discrimination in and lack of investigating and pursuing sexual assault and other crimes on reservations. (Note that there is federal jurisdiction for major crimes on Indian reservations.) Of course, trying to reduce equal protection discrimination against Native Americans isn't going to win more votes from women nationwide in Obama's 2012 election.

 

[tnt]

For those who haven't read today's article, not a lot of new info, but I thought there were a few interesting tidbits.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/civil-investigation-of-alleged-missoula-sex-assaults-a-first-for/article_08bc1274-97fd-11e1-bb57-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As alluded to in the article, DOJ ought to be investigating itself, the FBI and US attorneys offices near Indian reservations, as there is significant discrimination in and lack of investigating and pursuing sexual assault and other crimes on reservations. (Note that there is federal jurisdiction for major crimes on Indian reservations.) Of course, trying to reduce equal protection discrimination against Native Americans isn't going to win more votes from women nationwide in Obama's 2012 election.

For once I have to agree with you (except the political motivation) There is federal Jurisdiction on Indian reservations but just like the U of M the referral has to be reported through Tribal Police. Lots get lost. I can think of only one time where such an investigation has taken place and the DOJ took over law enforcement Duties while the local police department was revamped.

 

[bisonboone11]

Missoula-121 rapes per 100,000 people the last three years
Billings- 165 per 100,000

Interesting

Using these statistics is pointless. First of all, the FBI had a very narrow definition of rape for their statistics prior to 2012. There were 80 "rapes" according to the FBI's definition of rape, which wouldn't have included a woman being raped after being drugged or passed out, or if it was anything but a man forcibly having sexual intercourse with a woman. None of us have any idea what that number would be under the FBI's new, more accurate definition of rape. Second, rape is one of the most under-reported crimes. Third, if Missoula truly isn't handling the reports properly, don't you think that could make them less likely to report the crimes?

What is "pointless" is your post, as well as most of your other posts. Comparative rape stats have significant meaning. Your statements about not knowing what the new FBI stats will show and rape being underreported are pointless and irrelevant, in discussing comparative rape stats. That's another discussion, and not the one being had in the post you quoted. You know little or nothing about the Missoula situation, and your posts add nothing to the discussion.

Comparative rape statistics CAN have significant meaning, IF they include all relevant data. If they do not include all actual rapes, then how can you say they have "significant meaning"? Using these statistics that have "significant meaning", Chicago is the safest place to live as far as rapes, because they do not have any reported rapes shown.

 

[PlayerRep]

Missoula-121 rapes per 100,000 people the last three years
Billings- 165 per 100,000

Interesting

Using these statistics is pointless. First of all, the FBI had a very narrow definition of rape for their statistics prior to 2012. There were 80 "rapes" according to the FBI's definition of rape, which wouldn't have included a woman being raped after being drugged or passed out, or if it was anything but a man forcibly having sexual intercourse with a woman. None of us have any idea what that number would be under the FBI's new, more accurate definition of rape. Second, rape is one of the most under-reported crimes. Third, if Missoula truly isn't handling the reports properly, don't you think that could make them less likely to report the crimes?

What is "pointless" is your post, as well as most of your other posts. Comparative rape stats have significant meaning. Your statements about not knowing what the new FBI stats will show and rape being underreported are pointless and irrelevant, in discussing comparative rape stats. That's another discussion, and not the one being had in the post you quoted. You know little or nothing about the Missoula situation, and your posts add nothing to the discussion.

Comparative rape statistics CAN have significant meaning, IF they include all relevant data. If they do not include all actual rapes, then how can you say they have "significant meaning"? Using these statistics that have "significant meaning", Chicago is the safest place to live as far as rapes, because they do not have any reported rapes shown.

The comparison is Missoula to Billings--not to Chicago. Like I said, comparative stats using the same criteria, are significant. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Tokyogriz]

For those who haven't read today's article, not a lot of new info, but I thought there were a few interesting tidbits.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/civil-investigation-of-alleged-missoula-sex-assaults-a-first-for/article_08bc1274-97fd-11e1-bb57-0019bb2963f4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I love how Gwen Florio brings the NATIONAL COALITION AGAINST VIOLENT ATHLETES into an article which is not about violent athletes. Of actual cases brought in the last few years Um athletes represented 1-2% using 1 case out of 80 actual cases charged.

Katherine Redmond, executive director of the National Coalition Against Violent Athletes – some of those accused in Missoula are UM football players – sees it differently.

“To basically square off with the government and act as though the town has been safe, especially for women, that’s a far reach,” she said.

“Instead of saying we have a problem that we need to work on, (Van Valkenburg said) ‘That never happened,’ ” she said. “That to me is really arrogance.”


Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/civil-investigation-of-alleged-missoula-sex-assaults-a-first-for/article_08bc1274-97fd-11e1-bb57-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1uD1i8vbq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its fair to say this woman flat out HATES um athletics and loves to take any chance to smear UM athletes in her work as a press reporter. Sad thing is many of the morons out there take her word as truth and believe that UM athletes are scum like she wants you to think.

Florios continued attacks on UM football athletes really just shows her biased and agenda towards anything related to UM football.

 

[bisonboone11]

The comparison is Missoula to Billings--not to Chicago. Like I said, comparative stats using the same criteria, are significant. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

Missoula has significantly more college students than Billings. The types of rape that are not included in the statistics you are referring to are much more common among college students than non-college students. If these types of rapes were included in the statistics, it would likely increase the number of rapes in Missoula significantly more than in Billings, thereby making your current comparison significantly less relevant.

Try doing a little bit of research on the topic before you start criticizing others. It makes you look foolish, much like when you didn't even take the time to read the title or first sentence of the FBI's press release stating they were revising their definition of rape (not forcible rape as you claimed).

 

[bisonboone11]

The comparison is Missoula to Billings--not to Chicago. Like I said, comparative stats using the same criteria, are significant. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

Missoula has significantly more college students than Billings. The types of rape that are not included in the statistics you are referring to are much more common among college students than non-college students. If these types of rapes were included in the statistics, it would likely increase the number of rapes in Missoula significantly more than in Billings, thereby making your current comparison significantly less relevant.

Try doing a little bit of research on the topic before you start criticizing others. It makes you look foolish, much like when you didn't even take the time to read the title or first sentence of the FBI's press release stating they were revising their definition of rape (not forcible rape as you claimed).

Where did you go PlayerRep? This was just getting fun.

Also, the point of bringing up Chicago was to show that statistics are not always as they seem.

 

[grizatwork]

The comparison is Missoula to Billings--not to Chicago. Like I said, comparative stats using the same criteria, are significant. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

Missoula has significantly more college students than Billings. The types of rape that are not included in the statistics you are referring to are much more common among college students than non-college students. If these types of rapes were included in the statistics, it would likely increase the number of rapes in Missoula significantly more than in Billings, thereby making your current comparison significantly less relevant.

Try doing a little bit of research on the topic before you start criticizing others. It makes you look foolish, much like when you didn't even take the time to read the title or first sentence of the FBI's press release stating they were revising their definition of rape (not forcible rape as you claimed).

Where did you go PlayerRep? This was just getting fun.

Wait for it.......

 

[PlayerRep]

The comparison is Missoula to Billings--not to Chicago. Like I said, comparative stats using the same criteria, are significant. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

Missoula has significantly more college students than Billings. The types of rape that are not included in the statistics you are referring to are much more common among college students than non-college students. If these types of rapes were included in the statistics, it would likely increase the number of rapes in Missoula significantly more than in Billings, thereby making your current comparison significantly less relevant.

Try doing a little bit of research on the topic before you start criticizing others. It makes you look foolish, much like when you didn't even take the time to read the title or first sentence of the FBI's press release stating they were revising their definition of rape (not forcible rape as you claimed).

Nope, the FBI changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes. Here's the first sentence from a January NY Times article on the subject.

"The federal government is changing its longstanding definition of “forcible rape” in compiling national crime statistics — expanding both the definition of victims, to include males, and the types of sexual assault that will be counted in the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Report."

As for numbers of college students, are you not aware that Billings has about 6500 college students?

 

[bisonboone11]

The comparison is Missoula to Billings--not to Chicago. Like I said, comparative stats using the same criteria, are significant. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

Missoula has significantly more college students than Billings. The types of rape that are not included in the statistics you are referring to are much more common among college students than non-college students. If these types of rapes were included in the statistics, it would likely increase the number of rapes in Missoula significantly more than in Billings, thereby making your current comparison significantly less relevant.

Try doing a little bit of research on the topic before you start criticizing others. It makes you look foolish, much like when you didn't even take the time to read the title or first sentence of the FBI's press release stating they were revising their definition of rape (not forcible rape as you claimed).

Nope, the FBI changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes. Here's the first sentence from a January NY Times article on the subject.

"The federal government is changing its longstanding definition of “forcible rape” in compiling national crime statistics — expanding both the definition of victims, to include males, and the types of sexual assault that will be counted in the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Report."

As for numbers of college students, are you not aware that Billings has about 6500 college students?

So you're going to trust someone's report on the press release rather than the press release itself? Would that be considered hearsay? I would honestly like to know, because I'm not the one that went to law school. Even if it's not considered hearsay, I highly doubt most people would trust someone else's report on a press release over the press release itself. (Also, nice try on attempting to direct the conversation away from the actual issue being discussed. I believe that is a very common strategy for lawyers that are getting backed into a corner.) In any case, whichever one you choose to believe, it really doesn't matter because the statistics that you were using are based on the FBI's definition, which excluded the types of rape that are most common in college towns.

Yes, I was aware that Billings has approximately that many college students. Are you not aware that the University of Montana in Missoula itself has approximately twice as many students as that?

Also, in case you want to look at the actual press release, not someone's take on the press release, here is title of the press release, the first sentence, and the link:

Title: "Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape"

First sentence: "Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide."

Link: http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tnt]

Does anyone know how conviction rates compare vs "reports"

 

[bisonboone11]

Nope, the FBI changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes. Here's the first sentence from a January NY Times article on the subject.

"The federal government is changing its longstanding definition of “forcible rape” in compiling national crime statistics — expanding both the definition of victims, to include males, and the types of sexual assault that will be counted in the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Report."

As for numbers of college students, are you not aware that Billings has about 6500 college students?

So you're going to trust someone's report on the press release rather than the press release itself? Would that be considered hearsay? I would honestly like to know, because I'm not the one that went to law school. Even if it's not considered hearsay, I highly doubt most people would trust someone else's report on a press release over the press release itself. (Also, nice try on attempting to direct the conversation away from the actual issue being discussed. I believe that is a very common strategy for lawyers that are getting backed into a corner.) In any case, whichever one you choose to believe, it really doesn't matter because the statistics that you were using are based on the FBI's definition, which excluded the types of rape that are most common in college towns.

Yes, I was aware that Billings has approximately that many college students. Are you not aware that the University of Montana in Missoula itself has approximately twice as many students as that?

Also, in case you want to look at the actual press release, not someone's take on the press release, here is title of the press release, the first sentence, and the link:

Title: "Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape"

First sentence: "Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide."

Link: http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, just take a second to think about what you're saying regarding "forcible rape". The FBI is changing their definition to include non-forcible rape. So you're trying to say that the FBI is changing their definition of "forcible rape" to include "non-forcible rape"?

 

[PlayerRep]

The comparison is Missoula to Billings--not to Chicago. Like I said, comparative stats using the same criteria, are significant. If you don't understand that, then I feel sorry for you.

Missoula has significantly more college students than Billings. The types of rape that are not included in the statistics you are referring to are much more common among college students than non-college students. If these types of rapes were included in the statistics, it would likely increase the number of rapes in Missoula significantly more than in Billings, thereby making your current comparison significantly less relevant.

Try doing a little bit of research on the topic before you start criticizing others. It makes you look foolish, much like when you didn't even take the time to read the title or first sentence of the FBI's press release stating they were revising their definition of rape (not forcible rape as you claimed).

Nope, the FBI changed the definition of "forcible rape" for statistical reporting purposes. Here's the first sentence from a January NY Times article on the subject.

"The federal government is changing its longstanding definition of “forcible rape” in compiling national crime statistics — expanding both the definition of victims, to include males, and the types of sexual assault that will be counted in the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Uniform Crime Report."

As for numbers of college students, are you not aware that Billings has about 6500 college students?

So you're going to trust someone's report on the press release rather than the press release itself? Would that be considered hearsay? I would honestly like to know, because I'm not the one that went to law school. Even if it's not considered hearsay, I highly doubt most people would trust someone else's report on a press release over the press release itself. (Also, nice try on attempting to direct the conversation away from the actual issue being discussed. I believe that is a very common strategy for lawyers that are getting backed into a corner.) In any case, whichever one you choose to believe, it really doesn't matter because the statistics that you were using are based on the FBI's definition, which excluded the types of rape that are most common in college towns.

Yes, I was aware that Billings has approximately that many college students. Are you not aware that the University of Montana in Missoula itself has approximately twice as many students as that?

Also, in case you want to look at the actual press release, not someone's take on the press release, here is title of the press release, the first sentence, and the link:

Title: "Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape"

First sentence: "Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide."

Link: http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/attorney-general-eric-holder-announces-revisions-to-the-uniform-crime-reports-definition-of-rape" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is a quote from the press release you linked, which I had read previously. After reading the below quote, feel free to tell me that you know agree with me that the FBI was changing its definition of forcible rape.

"The longstanding, narrow definition of forcible rape, first established in 1927, is “the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will.”